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	<title>Comments on: Vows</title>
	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/06/17/vows/</link>
	<description>Random samplings from a universe of ideas.</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jul 2009 01:47:15 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Proteus</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/06/17/vows/#comment-40581</link>
		<dc:creator>Proteus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jul 2008 23:29:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/06/17/vows/#comment-40581</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt; dave lasagna &lt;/b&gt;

not to pick on you, as i typically admire those who post opinions that run counter to the 'groupthink' that is so prevalent in academia and in elitist circles, but you make some errors.

1) july 19 2008 has not yet occurred in the reference frame from which i'm posting.
2) i agree that physicists are no more capable of commenting on society than any other member in it. what that poster may have meant was "because physicists often possess excellent analytical skills, they can more readily determine the causes, effects, and possible solutions to societal problems". i certainly agree that 'elitism' a la' "i know better than you" is no good whether it comes from harvard or mount patmos. nonetheless, as jon stewart put it, "I WANT the president to be elite", that is, I think we all desire an effective and competent leader.
you are certainly right to demand that physicists who wish to shape public policy adhere to the same standards as anyone else.
3) i am not living in california, and am not really aware enough to comment about whether "judicial activism" is indeed occurring. it was disheartening to me that so many referenda in the past have conclusively determined that americans remain opposed, as a populace, to permitting gay marriage. however, as important a metric as public opinion is to determining what laws to make, we must remember that the constitution was written to protect us from ourselves (by us i obviously mean white, landowning men, a group in which i do not yet belong).
4) serbo-croatian is no longer a single language, but has rapidly split into bosnian, croatian, serbian, and montenegrin. am i missing any?

so to conclude, i agree that physicists are a bunch of pompous jerks who couldn't fix their car. i'm one of them, and surrounded by them. but why should my blue-collar uncle from peoria not be allowed to enjoy the same rights with respect to his 'spouse' as those that are bequeathed upon heterosexuals. they have been together 30 years, and if one was dying in a hospital, spousal visitation would not apply? regardless of whether one finds homosexuality "abnormal", "normal", or "disgusting", it is an undeniable civil rights violation, regardless of any majority opinion. ask yourself; what would a referendum taken in regard to the legality of slavery had as an outcome in 1800? (even assuming the slaves could have voted)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b> dave lasagna </b></p>
<p>not to pick on you, as i typically admire those who post opinions that run counter to the &#8216;groupthink&#8217; that is so prevalent in academia and in elitist circles, but you make some errors.</p>
<p>1) july 19 2008 has not yet occurred in the reference frame from which i&#8217;m posting.<br />
2) i agree that physicists are no more capable of commenting on society than any other member in it. what that poster may have meant was &#8220;because physicists often possess excellent analytical skills, they can more readily determine the causes, effects, and possible solutions to societal problems&#8221;. i certainly agree that &#8216;elitism&#8217; a la&#8217; &#8220;i know better than you&#8221; is no good whether it comes from harvard or mount patmos. nonetheless, as jon stewart put it, &#8220;I WANT the president to be elite&#8221;, that is, I think we all desire an effective and competent leader.<br />
you are certainly right to demand that physicists who wish to shape public policy adhere to the same standards as anyone else.<br />
3) i am not living in california, and am not really aware enough to comment about whether &#8220;judicial activism&#8221; is indeed occurring. it was disheartening to me that so many referenda in the past have conclusively determined that americans remain opposed, as a populace, to permitting gay marriage. however, as important a metric as public opinion is to determining what laws to make, we must remember that the constitution was written to protect us from ourselves (by us i obviously mean white, landowning men, a group in which i do not yet belong).<br />
4) serbo-croatian is no longer a single language, but has rapidly split into bosnian, croatian, serbian, and montenegrin. am i missing any?</p>
<p>so to conclude, i agree that physicists are a bunch of pompous jerks who couldn&#8217;t fix their car. i&#8217;m one of them, and surrounded by them. but why should my blue-collar uncle from peoria not be allowed to enjoy the same rights with respect to his &#8217;spouse&#8217; as those that are bequeathed upon heterosexuals. they have been together 30 years, and if one was dying in a hospital, spousal visitation would not apply? regardless of whether one finds homosexuality &#8220;abnormal&#8221;, &#8220;normal&#8221;, or &#8220;disgusting&#8221;, it is an undeniable civil rights violation, regardless of any majority opinion. ask yourself; what would a referendum taken in regard to the legality of slavery had as an outcome in 1800? (even assuming the slaves could have voted)</p>
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		<title>By: The AstroDyke</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/06/17/vows/#comment-40528</link>
		<dc:creator>The AstroDyke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:51:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/06/17/vows/#comment-40528</guid>
		<description>Thanks for that lovely post, Sean.

My friend Andy once articulated the ideas of your first paragraph as:  "If gays can marry, I'll love my wife 20% less.  And I'll start kicking the dog, too."  But yah, it's hard to be snarky, it's too sweet.  When the verdict came down, I was completely bowled over, then couldn't stop smiling for three days.  Equality.  We get to be equal!

I'd been happy with registered domestic partnership -- same tax status, inheritance, adoption, etc.  But the blank look on straight folks' faces when you say, "RDP" - wow.  I hadn't realized how unequal "separate but" was until we got a shot at "equal."

(Too bad the comment thread slid down the slippery slope.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for that lovely post, Sean.</p>
<p>My friend Andy once articulated the ideas of your first paragraph as:  &#8220;If gays can marry, I&#8217;ll love my wife 20% less.  And I&#8217;ll start kicking the dog, too.&#8221;  But yah, it&#8217;s hard to be snarky, it&#8217;s too sweet.  When the verdict came down, I was completely bowled over, then couldn&#8217;t stop smiling for three days.  Equality.  We get to be equal!</p>
<p>I&#8217;d been happy with registered domestic partnership &#8212; same tax status, inheritance, adoption, etc.  But the blank look on straight folks&#8217; faces when you say, &#8220;RDP&#8221; - wow.  I hadn&#8217;t realized how unequal &#8220;separate but&#8221; was until we got a shot at &#8220;equal.&#8221;</p>
<p>(Too bad the comment thread slid down the slippery slope.)</p>
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		<title>By: daisyrose</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/06/17/vows/#comment-40580</link>
		<dc:creator>daisyrose</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jun 2008 20:36:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/06/17/vows/#comment-40580</guid>
		<description>Why not have "trial" marriages where they could be renegotiated once a year - say february 1 - I mean is not the idea to have the most beautiful life possible?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why not have &#8220;trial&#8221; marriages where they could be renegotiated once a year - say february 1 - I mean is not the idea to have the most beautiful life possible?</p>
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		<title>By: judith weingarten</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/06/17/vows/#comment-40551</link>
		<dc:creator>judith weingarten</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jun 2008 07:14:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/06/17/vows/#comment-40551</guid>
		<description>Joshua,

Wikipedia is not only infallible but, in this case, it happens to be right :-).  I, as an Aegean archaeologist, should have noted that polygamy comes from Greek: &lt;i&gt;poly&lt;/i&gt; (many) &lt;i&gt;gamos&lt;/i&gt; (marrying) -- which theoretically covers both polyandry and ... um, polygamy.

That's the problem, isn't it.  Default position = male.  ACLU = default position.  But I'm sure they'll help me should I want to marry four husbands.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joshua,</p>
<p>Wikipedia is not only infallible but, in this case, it happens to be right :-).  I, as an Aegean archaeologist, should have noted that polygamy comes from Greek: <i>poly</i> (many) <i>gamos</i> (marrying) &#8212; which theoretically covers both polyandry and &#8230; um, polygamy.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s the problem, isn&#8217;t it.  Default position = male.  ACLU = default position.  But I&#8217;m sure they&#8217;ll help me should I want to marry four husbands.</p>
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		<title>By: Ijon Tichy</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/06/17/vows/#comment-40579</link>
		<dc:creator>Ijon Tichy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jun 2008 05:48:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/06/17/vows/#comment-40579</guid>
		<description>Marriage! What a boring topic. Anyway, Sean's post was mostly above love. Now that is an interesting topic. For example, I believe that love needs to be debunked, just as faith has been debunked. Like faith, love is an irrational state of mind, and leads to much harm to oneself and to others. Yet somehow all this damage caused by love is accepted as natural and worth it, just like car megadeath (every year over a million people die in car accidents) has been tolerated by society.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marriage! What a boring topic. Anyway, Sean&#8217;s post was mostly above love. Now that is an interesting topic. For example, I believe that love needs to be debunked, just as faith has been debunked. Like faith, love is an irrational state of mind, and leads to much harm to oneself and to others. Yet somehow all this damage caused by love is accepted as natural and worth it, just like car megadeath (every year over a million people die in car accidents) has been tolerated by society.</p>
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		<title>By: JCF</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/06/17/vows/#comment-40578</link>
		<dc:creator>JCF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jun 2008 00:36:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/06/17/vows/#comment-40578</guid>
		<description>"Act only according to that maxim whereby you can at the same time will that it should become a universal law."
Suppose that all humans decided to eschew offspring --or voting or traffic laws.  Is the categorical imperative a valid reason to encourage conjugal unions that at least provide an opportunity to reproduce?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Act only according to that maxim whereby you can at the same time will that it should become a universal law.&#8221;<br />
Suppose that all humans decided to eschew offspring &#8211;or voting or traffic laws.  Is the categorical imperative a valid reason to encourage conjugal unions that at least provide an opportunity to reproduce?</p>
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		<title>By: Count Iblis</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/06/17/vows/#comment-40526</link>
		<dc:creator>Count Iblis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jun 2008 14:36:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/06/17/vows/#comment-40526</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;...and members of Congress should be allowed to publish papers on their favorite theories in the physics journals . . .
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

They are already allowed to do that. Publishing in scientific journals is, in principle, open to everyone. So, just like a paper by a Congress member won't be rejected just because he isn't a physicist, Sean's input on this topic should not be disqualified merely because he is a physicist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>&#8230;and members of Congress should be allowed to publish papers on their favorite theories in the physics journals . . .
</p></blockquote>
<p>They are already allowed to do that. Publishing in scientific journals is, in principle, open to everyone. So, just like a paper by a Congress member won&#8217;t be rejected just because he isn&#8217;t a physicist, Sean&#8217;s input on this topic should not be disqualified merely because he is a physicist.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonas</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/06/17/vows/#comment-40577</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jun 2008 13:44:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/06/17/vows/#comment-40577</guid>
		<description>Ah, I see I misread the article, it wasn't as bad as I first imagined. My comment above still applies to those against gay marriages though. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, I see I misread the article, it wasn&#8217;t as bad as I first imagined. My comment above still applies to those against gay marriages though. <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Jonas</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/06/17/vows/#comment-40527</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jun 2008 13:42:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/06/17/vows/#comment-40527</guid>
		<description>What? How is gays getting married being degrading to the act of marriage? Can they not feel the same kind of love and dedication as a pair of heterosexuals? Who cares who they like in bed, who they like to have sex with. Marriage is about loving a partner, and gays of course are no worse at doing that than others. The only mistake here was to have it only encompass heterosexuals to begin with. Now that's finally starting to be fixed around the world, it's about damn time. I almost wish this article was written in jest, but I suppose not. *sigh* But then again, we're only humans after all, we argue irrationally at times. Regardless of sexual preference.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What? How is gays getting married being degrading to the act of marriage? Can they not feel the same kind of love and dedication as a pair of heterosexuals? Who cares who they like in bed, who they like to have sex with. Marriage is about loving a partner, and gays of course are no worse at doing that than others. The only mistake here was to have it only encompass heterosexuals to begin with. Now that&#8217;s finally starting to be fixed around the world, it&#8217;s about damn time. I almost wish this article was written in jest, but I suppose not. *sigh* But then again, we&#8217;re only humans after all, we argue irrationally at times. Regardless of sexual preference.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/06/17/vows/#comment-40534</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jun 2008 12:21:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/06/17/vows/#comment-40534</guid>
		<description>Haelfix. There are other things that the marriage contract provides beyond tax breaks. I agree with some of what you say though. My view most closely coincides with what seleya had to say.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Haelfix. There are other things that the marriage contract provides beyond tax breaks. I agree with some of what you say though. My view most closely coincides with what seleya had to say.</p>
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