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	<title>Comments on: What Good is a Theory?</title>
	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/07/01/what-good-is-a-theory/</link>
	<description>Random samplings from a universe of ideas.</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jul 2009 21:15:41 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Barry</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/07/01/what-good-is-a-theory/#comment-41123</link>
		<dc:creator>Barry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jul 2008 18:07:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/07/01/what-good-is-a-theory/#comment-41123</guid>
		<description>Proteus:  "Without resorting to "Global Warming is a Hoax" accusations, I will say that I am surprised to hear so many scientists commit the very sin of "correlation is adequate" when it comes to that matter."

Which is not what they're saying.  Please read
&lt;a href="http://www.amazon.com/Discovery-Warming-Histories-Technology-Medicine/dp/0674016378/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&#38;s=books&#38;qid=1215626709&#38;sr=1-1" rel="nofollow"&gt;The Discovery of Global Warming&lt;/a&gt; for an excellent introduction, which points out the phsysics.  It does tend to stint on the biological confirmations of the models, though.  Also, please read realclimate.org.

"Crucial to that matter, it seems, is an ability to separate the scientific method from politics."

The whole strategy of denialists is precisely to use politics to do what they failed to do in science.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Proteus:  &#8220;Without resorting to &#8220;Global Warming is a Hoax&#8221; accusations, I will say that I am surprised to hear so many scientists commit the very sin of &#8220;correlation is adequate&#8221; when it comes to that matter.&#8221;</p>
<p>Which is not what they&#8217;re saying.  Please read<br />
<a href="http://www.amazon.com/Discovery-Warming-Histories-Technology-Medicine/dp/0674016378/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;qid=1215626709&amp;sr=1-1" rel="nofollow">The Discovery of Global Warming</a> for an excellent introduction, which points out the phsysics.  It does tend to stint on the biological confirmations of the models, though.  Also, please read realclimate.org.</p>
<p>&#8220;Crucial to that matter, it seems, is an ability to separate the scientific method from politics.&#8221;</p>
<p>The whole strategy of denialists is precisely to use politics to do what they failed to do in science.</p>
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		<title>By: John Merryman</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/07/01/what-good-is-a-theory/#comment-41113</link>
		<dc:creator>John Merryman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jul 2008 17:17:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/07/01/what-good-is-a-theory/#comment-41113</guid>
		<description>Neil,

 That would be "The model is that there is no model. " model?

Consider it from the basic dichotomy of bottom up process vs. top down structure;
Any organizational unit, be it an organism, corporation, theory, etc. must have some unifying focus in order to exist, but that definition sets limits and therefore it cannot also be infinite in its application.
 What would happen if two realities which operated under different physical laws were to meet. In a sense, the same thing that happens when there is any conflict, be it between two bio-systems or two galaxies. There would be a mash-up and what emerged would be a new system forming out of the innumerable interactions. It wouldn't have the same features as either of the originals, though there would be complexities that managed to carry over in diverse forms, whether organic or mineral. Say the Big Bang was caused by such a collision of two such realities. The set of physical laws which emerged wouldn't be completely reducible back to some basic theory without knowing the laws of both preceding realities.
 It is that intermingling that is a function of the bottom up process and any specific unit within it cannot be completely understand in isolation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Neil,</p>
<p> That would be &#8220;The model is that there is no model. &#8221; model?</p>
<p>Consider it from the basic dichotomy of bottom up process vs. top down structure;<br />
Any organizational unit, be it an organism, corporation, theory, etc. must have some unifying focus in order to exist, but that definition sets limits and therefore it cannot also be infinite in its application.<br />
 What would happen if two realities which operated under different physical laws were to meet. In a sense, the same thing that happens when there is any conflict, be it between two bio-systems or two galaxies. There would be a mash-up and what emerged would be a new system forming out of the innumerable interactions. It wouldn&#8217;t have the same features as either of the originals, though there would be complexities that managed to carry over in diverse forms, whether organic or mineral. Say the Big Bang was caused by such a collision of two such realities. The set of physical laws which emerged wouldn&#8217;t be completely reducible back to some basic theory without knowing the laws of both preceding realities.<br />
 It is that intermingling that is a function of the bottom up process and any specific unit within it cannot be completely understand in isolation.</p>
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		<title>By: Neil B.</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/07/01/what-good-is-a-theory/#comment-41122</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jul 2008 22:10:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/07/01/what-good-is-a-theory/#comment-41122</guid>
		<description>As I just commented at Backreaction: Curiously, there really can't be any "theory" to show us a way if modal-realist type ideas (like Tegmark's) are really "true" - all descriptions exist, and we are just in the one that acts like this. There'd be no "reason why", no underlying "conceptual scheme" etc, there would only appear to be.
 (- sorry about being so belated.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As I just commented at Backreaction: Curiously, there really can&#8217;t be any &#8220;theory&#8221; to show us a way if modal-realist type ideas (like Tegmark&#8217;s) are really &#8220;true&#8221; - all descriptions exist, and we are just in the one that acts like this. There&#8217;d be no &#8220;reason why&#8221;, no underlying &#8220;conceptual scheme&#8221; etc, there would only appear to be.<br />
 (- sorry about being so belated.)</p>
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		<title>By: Scientific Method Obsolete? - Page 2 - Bad Astronomy and Universe Today Forum</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/07/01/what-good-is-a-theory/#comment-41121</link>
		<dc:creator>Scientific Method Obsolete? - Page 2 - Bad Astronomy and Universe Today Forum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jul 2008 22:33:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/07/01/what-good-is-a-theory/#comment-41121</guid>
		<description>[...] with the idea that we don't know why our system works well.    Edit: and from Sean Carroll, we have this blog post    __________________ Chris Hillman       Last edited by Chris Hillman : Today at 05:32 [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] with the idea that we don&#8217;t know why our system works well.    Edit: and from Sean Carroll, we have this blog post    __________________ Chris Hillman       Last edited by Chris Hillman : Today at 05:32 [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Aiya-Oba</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/07/01/what-good-is-a-theory/#comment-41098</link>
		<dc:creator>Aiya-Oba</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 18:34:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/07/01/what-good-is-a-theory/#comment-41098</guid>
		<description>Equator of principle and particle (gluon of self-contradiction), is the Absolute Logic of self-creation of Spacetime-Continuum.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Equator of principle and particle (gluon of self-contradiction), is the Absolute Logic of self-creation of Spacetime-Continuum.</p>
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		<title>By: John Merryman</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/07/01/what-good-is-a-theory/#comment-41118</link>
		<dc:creator>John Merryman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 15:49:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/07/01/what-good-is-a-theory/#comment-41118</guid>
		<description>Mike,

 Since an objective perspective is an oxymoron, any inquiry is inherently subjective to begin with. Added to that, the process of inducing a general theory from a collection of data is inherently reductionistic. So it would seem problematic to assume that one might draw particularly objective conclusions from a particular study. This is mitigated by multiplying the fields of inquiry and finding which patterns are most prevalent.
 From my limited experience and knowledge, it would seem one of the most basic patterns is of opposing forces in motion relative to one another, be it electricity or football, politics or geophysics. So is nature some dualistic construct, or is there a fundamental physicality and if we just keep smacking particles into one another, we will eventually find it. Or are we missing some larger point?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike,</p>
<p> Since an objective perspective is an oxymoron, any inquiry is inherently subjective to begin with. Added to that, the process of inducing a general theory from a collection of data is inherently reductionistic. So it would seem problematic to assume that one might draw particularly objective conclusions from a particular study. This is mitigated by multiplying the fields of inquiry and finding which patterns are most prevalent.<br />
 From my limited experience and knowledge, it would seem one of the most basic patterns is of opposing forces in motion relative to one another, be it electricity or football, politics or geophysics. So is nature some dualistic construct, or is there a fundamental physicality and if we just keep smacking particles into one another, we will eventually find it. Or are we missing some larger point?</p>
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		<title>By: Mike M</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/07/01/what-good-is-a-theory/#comment-41112</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 09:04:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/07/01/what-good-is-a-theory/#comment-41112</guid>
		<description>Not sure I am saying anything so radical, John.  I would imagine that psychologists would argue that their theories of human behaviour are objective (though some would argue!).  The fact that the theory is driven utlimately by quantum field theory if you were able to tunnel down far enough is true, but essentially uninteresting as it provides no insight into the subject.  Similarly, a football game is ultimately driven by fundamental physics, but quantum theory rarely features in the post-game analysis. Since these levels of description are surely somehow related to the complexity of the system under consideration, all I am speculating is that if you have a complex enough experiment then it may no longer be appropriate to analyze it in terms of physics even if it was designed as a physics experiment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not sure I am saying anything so radical, John.  I would imagine that psychologists would argue that their theories of human behaviour are objective (though some would argue!).  The fact that the theory is driven utlimately by quantum field theory if you were able to tunnel down far enough is true, but essentially uninteresting as it provides no insight into the subject.  Similarly, a football game is ultimately driven by fundamental physics, but quantum theory rarely features in the post-game analysis. Since these levels of description are surely somehow related to the complexity of the system under consideration, all I am speculating is that if you have a complex enough experiment then it may no longer be appropriate to analyze it in terms of physics even if it was designed as a physics experiment.</p>
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		<title>By: John Merryman</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/07/01/what-good-is-a-theory/#comment-41120</link>
		<dc:creator>John Merryman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 23:23:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/07/01/what-good-is-a-theory/#comment-41120</guid>
		<description>Mike,

 So what you're saying is that theory is necessarily based on objectives, than objectivity?
 I suppose then that those who do base their studies on pure objectivity are taking a long walk off a short board.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike,</p>
<p> So what you&#8217;re saying is that theory is necessarily based on objectives, than objectivity?<br />
 I suppose then that those who do base their studies on pure objectivity are taking a long walk off a short board.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike M</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/07/01/what-good-is-a-theory/#comment-41096</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 19:29:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/07/01/what-good-is-a-theory/#comment-41096</guid>
		<description>But even if you optimistically believe that all the links in the chain can be made (for which there is no guarantee), it still wouldn't make sense to discuss a complex system like human psychology in terms of quantum field theory, as it would yield zero insight.  Similarly, I could well imagine that there will come a point where it no longer makes sense to discuss a huge data set from a complex physical system, like the GAIA observations of the Milky Way for example, in terms of fundamental physics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But even if you optimistically believe that all the links in the chain can be made (for which there is no guarantee), it still wouldn&#8217;t make sense to discuss a complex system like human psychology in terms of quantum field theory, as it would yield zero insight.  Similarly, I could well imagine that there will come a point where it no longer makes sense to discuss a huge data set from a complex physical system, like the GAIA observations of the Milky Way for example, in terms of fundamental physics.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Dick</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/07/01/what-good-is-a-theory/#comment-41119</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Dick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 16:54:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/07/01/what-good-is-a-theory/#comment-41119</guid>
		<description>Mike M,

That's not the point.  You don't have to explain things in terms of the most fundamental laws we know to at least have &lt;i&gt;some&lt;/i&gt; explanation.  For example, eventually we may hope to understand the operation of the human brain in terms of the activity of its basic components: neurons.  There are many neuroscientists today working on this very problem, and it's a good goal to have.

We can then understand the operation of individual neurons based on the chemistry of their components.  We can understand the chemistry of their components in terms of non-relativistic quantum mechanics.  We can understand non-relativistic quantum mechanics in terms of quantum field theory.  And, some day, we may understand quantum field theory in terms of some more fundamental theory.

Either way, you don't have to describe &lt;i&gt;everything&lt;/i&gt; by breaking it down to its most fundamental components.  There are ways of simplifying the problem by breaking it up into pieces.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike M,</p>
<p>That&#8217;s not the point.  You don&#8217;t have to explain things in terms of the most fundamental laws we know to at least have <i>some</i> explanation.  For example, eventually we may hope to understand the operation of the human brain in terms of the activity of its basic components: neurons.  There are many neuroscientists today working on this very problem, and it&#8217;s a good goal to have.</p>
<p>We can then understand the operation of individual neurons based on the chemistry of their components.  We can understand the chemistry of their components in terms of non-relativistic quantum mechanics.  We can understand non-relativistic quantum mechanics in terms of quantum field theory.  And, some day, we may understand quantum field theory in terms of some more fundamental theory.</p>
<p>Either way, you don&#8217;t have to describe <i>everything</i> by breaking it down to its most fundamental components.  There are ways of simplifying the problem by breaking it up into pieces.</p>
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