<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Final Pieces of the CMS Puzzle</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/07/31/final-pieces-of-the-cms-puzzle/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/07/31/final-pieces-of-the-cms-puzzle/</link>
	<description>Random samplings from a universe of ideas.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 14:17:33 -0600</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Christopher M</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/07/31/final-pieces-of-the-cms-puzzle/comment-page-1/#comment-45741</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2008 15:49:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/07/31/final-pieces-of-the-cms-puzzle/#comment-45741</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the interesting explanation, and for the pointers to further reading!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the interesting explanation, and for the pointers to further reading!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ellipsis</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/07/31/final-pieces-of-the-cms-puzzle/comment-page-1/#comment-45737</link>
		<dc:creator>Ellipsis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 16:20:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/07/31/final-pieces-of-the-cms-puzzle/#comment-45737</guid>
		<description>&gt; calibrate the position of the innermost detector elements to is O(20 microns) or
                                                                          I meant       O(2 microns)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt; calibrate the position of the innermost detector elements to is O(20 microns) or<br />
                                                                          I meant       O(2 microns)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ellipsis</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/07/31/final-pieces-of-the-cms-puzzle/comment-page-1/#comment-45738</link>
		<dc:creator>Ellipsis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 16:15:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/07/31/final-pieces-of-the-cms-puzzle/#comment-45738</guid>
		<description>Someone should answer the excellent questions from Christopher M, collin237, Sili, and Richard.  I&#039;m
procrastinating from writing a paper, so I&#039;ll do it:

Christopher M: There are several books on the experimental side of high-energy physics, from technical books,
to general textbooks, to popular accounts written by particle experimentalists.  Some examples are: (general
textbooks) _Detectors for Particle Radiation_ by K. Kleinknecht, _Experimental Techniques in High Energy
Physics_ by T. Ferbel, and the excellent chapter in the classic _Introduction to High Energy Physics_ by D.
Perkins.  Physicists who already know the topic look things up at
http://pdg.lbl.gov/2008/reviews/pardetrpp.pdf .  Popular accounts include L. Lederman&#039;s horribly-titled _The
God Particle_, and _The Rise of the Standard Model_ by L. Hoddeson et al., amongst many others. As for the
precision of the detectors, that is indeed very carefully measured and calibrated using a variety of means --
primarily tracks of particles themselves.  As for alignment, the typical scale that experiments need to
calibrate the position of the innermost detector elements to is O(20 microns) or so for the very innermost
pixels.  The further out in the detector you go, the less sensitive we need to be.  Now how, you may ask, do
we use the very same particle tracks we are measuring to calibrate the detector?  The answer is that the vast
majority of events don&#039;t get used for physics, so these aren&#039;t typically the same events.  But one thing you
can be reasonably sure of with almost any particle track: _it doesn&#039;t zigzag_.  Particles travel in a smooth
curve: in a constant magnetic field as within a detector, their tracks always form a helix.  So if you see
that the tracks your particles are making are zigzagging, and always in the same way when they cross a
certain detector element, it is likely that you have the position of that element wrong.  This is the
technique by which the detector is aligned.  We write computer programs to take a bunch of test events from
the detector, determine zigzag patters, and thus determine an alignment pattern for the detector to remove
them.  We can align using tracks from cosmic rays or real beam tracks.  A lot of effort is put into designing
the detector elements such that they don&#039;t vibrate, so we don&#039;t need to do too much for effects that are
rapidly time-dependent in-between accesses of the detector (but there are some other techniques for those, in
fact ATLAS also uses a laser interferometry alignment system to check those types of movements, but they tend
to be small).  Hope that answers your question, ask if you have more.

collin237: Particles almost never stop when they hit a pixel detector -- they pass through the layers of
pixels, as well as the outer tracking elements, and we detect a track if the particle is charged.  How does
one display particle tracks in 3-dimensional space, especially on a flat computer screen?  This is a
challenge, similar to many computer 3-D graphics challenges.  Typically event displays allow one to rotate
one&#039;s view of the event and see it from different angles.  There are many recent developments in computer
graphics that may allow this to be improved in the future, see e.g.
http://gordonwatts.wordpress.com/2008/06/25/head-tracking-and-3d-displays-the-new-event-display/

Sili: With the current LHC magnets, there is no way that antiprotons could be used -- the antiprotons would
bend in the wrong direction and hit the wall of the beam pipe immediately.  Certainly one could conceive of
an entirely new accelerator in the ring that could be p-pbar rather than p-p.  But, upgrade-wise, under the
hopefully quite safe assumption that the present LHC is successful, the focus is more on a luminosity upgrade
of the present collider (in 7-8 years or so), and then probably later on (in 15-20 years or so) an energy
upgrade, rather than changing it to p-pbar.  We think we can get more physics reach by moving in those
directions (luminosity and energy) rather than pushing hard on antiproton production and storage and
switching to p-pbar -- it would be hard to envision as significant gains in, say, Higgs or supersymmetry
cross-sections by moving to p-pbar as by increasing the luminosity and (later on) the energy.

Richard: As for the boxes that detectors are put in for shipping, I&#039;m not sure where you can find a good set
of pictures, maybe others can help.  But there is a huge set of pictures and videos in
http://multimedia-gallery.web.cern.ch/multimedia-gallery/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Someone should answer the excellent questions from Christopher M, collin237, Sili, and Richard.  I&#8217;m<br />
procrastinating from writing a paper, so I&#8217;ll do it:</p>
<p>Christopher M: There are several books on the experimental side of high-energy physics, from technical books,<br />
to general textbooks, to popular accounts written by particle experimentalists.  Some examples are: (general<br />
textbooks) _Detectors for Particle Radiation_ by K. Kleinknecht, _Experimental Techniques in High Energy<br />
Physics_ by T. Ferbel, and the excellent chapter in the classic _Introduction to High Energy Physics_ by D.<br />
Perkins.  Physicists who already know the topic look things up at<br />
<a href="http://pdg.lbl.gov/2008/reviews/pardetrpp.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://pdg.lbl.gov/2008/reviews/pardetrpp.pdf</a> .  Popular accounts include L. Lederman&#8217;s horribly-titled _The<br />
God Particle_, and _The Rise of the Standard Model_ by L. Hoddeson et al., amongst many others. As for the<br />
precision of the detectors, that is indeed very carefully measured and calibrated using a variety of means &#8211;<br />
primarily tracks of particles themselves.  As for alignment, the typical scale that experiments need to<br />
calibrate the position of the innermost detector elements to is O(20 microns) or so for the very innermost<br />
pixels.  The further out in the detector you go, the less sensitive we need to be.  Now how, you may ask, do<br />
we use the very same particle tracks we are measuring to calibrate the detector?  The answer is that the vast<br />
majority of events don&#8217;t get used for physics, so these aren&#8217;t typically the same events.  But one thing you<br />
can be reasonably sure of with almost any particle track: _it doesn&#8217;t zigzag_.  Particles travel in a smooth<br />
curve: in a constant magnetic field as within a detector, their tracks always form a helix.  So if you see<br />
that the tracks your particles are making are zigzagging, and always in the same way when they cross a<br />
certain detector element, it is likely that you have the position of that element wrong.  This is the<br />
technique by which the detector is aligned.  We write computer programs to take a bunch of test events from<br />
the detector, determine zigzag patters, and thus determine an alignment pattern for the detector to remove<br />
them.  We can align using tracks from cosmic rays or real beam tracks.  A lot of effort is put into designing<br />
the detector elements such that they don&#8217;t vibrate, so we don&#8217;t need to do too much for effects that are<br />
rapidly time-dependent in-between accesses of the detector (but there are some other techniques for those, in<br />
fact ATLAS also uses a laser interferometry alignment system to check those types of movements, but they tend<br />
to be small).  Hope that answers your question, ask if you have more.</p>
<p>collin237: Particles almost never stop when they hit a pixel detector &#8212; they pass through the layers of<br />
pixels, as well as the outer tracking elements, and we detect a track if the particle is charged.  How does<br />
one display particle tracks in 3-dimensional space, especially on a flat computer screen?  This is a<br />
challenge, similar to many computer 3-D graphics challenges.  Typically event displays allow one to rotate<br />
one&#8217;s view of the event and see it from different angles.  There are many recent developments in computer<br />
graphics that may allow this to be improved in the future, see e.g.<br />
<a href="http://gordonwatts.wordpress.com/2008/06/25/head-tracking-and-3d-displays-the-new-event-display/" rel="nofollow">http://gordonwatts.wordpress.com/2008/06/25/head-tracking-and-3d-displays-the-new-event-display/</a></p>
<p>Sili: With the current LHC magnets, there is no way that antiprotons could be used &#8212; the antiprotons would<br />
bend in the wrong direction and hit the wall of the beam pipe immediately.  Certainly one could conceive of<br />
an entirely new accelerator in the ring that could be p-pbar rather than p-p.  But, upgrade-wise, under the<br />
hopefully quite safe assumption that the present LHC is successful, the focus is more on a luminosity upgrade<br />
of the present collider (in 7-8 years or so), and then probably later on (in 15-20 years or so) an energy<br />
upgrade, rather than changing it to p-pbar.  We think we can get more physics reach by moving in those<br />
directions (luminosity and energy) rather than pushing hard on antiproton production and storage and<br />
switching to p-pbar &#8212; it would be hard to envision as significant gains in, say, Higgs or supersymmetry<br />
cross-sections by moving to p-pbar as by increasing the luminosity and (later on) the energy.</p>
<p>Richard: As for the boxes that detectors are put in for shipping, I&#8217;m not sure where you can find a good set<br />
of pictures, maybe others can help.  But there is a huge set of pictures and videos in<br />
<a href="http://multimedia-gallery.web.cern.ch/multimedia-gallery/" rel="nofollow">http://multimedia-gallery.web.cern.ch/multimedia-gallery/</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Aristotle Pagaltzis</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/07/31/final-pieces-of-the-cms-puzzle/comment-page-1/#comment-45736</link>
		<dc:creator>Aristotle Pagaltzis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 11:34:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/07/31/final-pieces-of-the-cms-puzzle/#comment-45736</guid>
		<description>Editorial note: the link to the post about the birth of your son points to the edit page for that post (which is, as it well should be, inaccessible to regular visitors) rather than to the permalink of the post on the publicly visible site.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Editorial note: the link to the post about the birth of your son points to the edit page for that post (which is, as it well should be, inaccessible to regular visitors) rather than to the permalink of the post on the publicly visible site.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/07/31/final-pieces-of-the-cms-puzzle/comment-page-1/#comment-45735</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 05:25:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/07/31/final-pieces-of-the-cms-puzzle/#comment-45735</guid>
		<description>This is (yet more) wonderful stuff.
But we demand &lt;i&gt;pictures&lt;/i&gt; of our intrepid voyagers cradling The Devices,
or at least the undoubtedly-interesting engineering that went into just creating the transportation cradles for the devices.
(A quick google image search for &quot;cms forward disk&quot; turns up nothing of human-interest.)
Physics is of of course of highest interest, but logistics isn&#039;t without its attractions, and the thousands of hours that skilled mechanical engineers and machinists must have put into making the detectors arrive in one piece oughtn&#039;t go unrecorded.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is (yet more) wonderful stuff.<br />
But we demand <i>pictures</i> of our intrepid voyagers cradling The Devices,<br />
or at least the undoubtedly-interesting engineering that went into just creating the transportation cradles for the devices.<br />
(A quick google image search for &#8220;cms forward disk&#8221; turns up nothing of human-interest.)<br />
Physics is of of course of highest interest, but logistics isn&#8217;t without its attractions, and the thousands of hours that skilled mechanical engineers and machinists must have put into making the detectors arrive in one piece oughtn&#8217;t go unrecorded.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Sili</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/07/31/final-pieces-of-the-cms-puzzle/comment-page-1/#comment-45725</link>
		<dc:creator>Sili</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2008 20:39:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/07/31/final-pieces-of-the-cms-puzzle/#comment-45725</guid>
		<description>Phil Plait just linked to &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2008/08/the_large_hadron_collider.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;these awesome pictures&lt;/a&gt; of the beast.

If we put on out prognosticatory goggles and look twenty years into the future, will it possible to run anti-protons through the same pipes? Assuming of course that through the power of &lt;em&gt;Science&lt;/em&gt;(tm), we&#039;ll have found away to produce enough of them to get the necessary luminousity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Phil Plait just linked to <a href="http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2008/08/the_large_hadron_collider.html" rel="nofollow">these awesome pictures</a> of the beast.</p>
<p>If we put on out prognosticatory goggles and look twenty years into the future, will it possible to run anti-protons through the same pipes? Assuming of course that through the power of <em>Science</em>(tm), we&#8217;ll have found away to produce enough of them to get the necessary luminousity.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: What Will the LHC Find? &#124; Cosmic Variance</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/07/31/final-pieces-of-the-cms-puzzle/comment-page-1/#comment-45734</link>
		<dc:creator>What Will the LHC Find? &#124; Cosmic Variance</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2008 07:04:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/07/31/final-pieces-of-the-cms-puzzle/#comment-45734</guid>
		<description>[...]        &#171; Final Pieces of the CMS Puzzle &#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;    digg_url = [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]        &laquo; Final Pieces of the CMS Puzzle &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;    digg_url = [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: hero</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/07/31/final-pieces-of-the-cms-puzzle/comment-page-1/#comment-45733</link>
		<dc:creator>hero</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Aug 2008 21:48:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/07/31/final-pieces-of-the-cms-puzzle/#comment-45733</guid>
		<description>&quot;My biggest fear, I think, was some idiot tearing through the terminal and hitting one of our detectors with a luggage cart.&quot;

Actually it may not be a bad thing for the detector, the detector probably will think he finds the biggest particle in the world ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;My biggest fear, I think, was some idiot tearing through the terminal and hitting one of our detectors with a luggage cart.&#8221;</p>
<p>Actually it may not be a bad thing for the detector, the detector probably will think he finds the biggest particle in the world <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Chris W.</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/07/31/final-pieces-of-the-cms-puzzle/comment-page-1/#comment-45732</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris W.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Aug 2008 21:01:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/07/31/final-pieces-of-the-cms-puzzle/#comment-45732</guid>
		<description>Somewhat off-topic: &lt;em&gt;Physics World&lt;/em&gt; has just released an &lt;a href=&quot;http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/print/35215&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;interesting article&lt;/a&gt; on the debate over DAMA&#039;s alleged detection of dark matter. The intricacies of particle detection and interpretation of results plays a prominent role, of course. The article begins with the provocative Rudyard Kipling quote on &lt;a href=&quot;http://people.roma2.infn.it/~dama/web/home.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;DAMA&#039;s home page&lt;/a&gt;.

(Note: Juan Collar&#039;s recent comments on CV are mentioned.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Somewhat off-topic: <em>Physics World</em> has just released an <a href="http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/print/35215" rel="nofollow">interesting article</a> on the debate over DAMA&#8217;s alleged detection of dark matter. The intricacies of particle detection and interpretation of results plays a prominent role, of course. The article begins with the provocative Rudyard Kipling quote on <a href="http://people.roma2.infn.it/~dama/web/home.html" rel="nofollow">DAMA&#8217;s home page</a>.</p>
<p>(Note: Juan Collar&#8217;s recent comments on CV are mentioned.)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: collin237</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/07/31/final-pieces-of-the-cms-puzzle/comment-page-1/#comment-45727</link>
		<dc:creator>collin237</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Aug 2008 23:24:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/07/31/final-pieces-of-the-cms-puzzle/#comment-45727</guid>
		<description>Do the charged particles stop when they hit a pixel detector? If not, how does the path traced out by the detectors get presented for viewing without decohering into only one hit?

(Actually, I could ask the same thing about just an ordinary cloud chamber.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do the charged particles stop when they hit a pixel detector? If not, how does the path traced out by the detectors get presented for viewing without decohering into only one hit?</p>
<p>(Actually, I could ask the same thing about just an ordinary cloud chamber.)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
