Comments on: The Hidden Complexity of the Olympics http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/08/19/the-hidden-complexity-of-the-olympics/ Random samplings from a universe of ideas. Mon, 13 Feb 2012 03:14:43 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: el Abra » The Hidden Complexity of the Olympics http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/08/19/the-hidden-complexity-of-the-olympics/comment-page-1/#comment-42163 el Abra » The Hidden Complexity of the Olympics Tue, 09 Sep 2008 20:57:57 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/08/19/the-hidden-complexity-of-the-olympics/#comment-42163 [...] Los juegos olímpicos terminaron, pero este linkito es imperdible: en el decatlón se pueden obtener... javier — Sep 09 2008 # [...] [...] Los juegos olímpicos terminaron, pero este linkito es imperdible: en el decatlón se pueden obtener… javier — Sep 09 2008 # [...]

]]> By: Aakash http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/08/19/the-hidden-complexity-of-the-olympics/comment-page-1/#comment-42162 Aakash Mon, 01 Sep 2008 22:14:59 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/08/19/the-hidden-complexity-of-the-olympics/#comment-42162 Hello... I tried to <a href="http://badexample.mu.nu/archives/075139.php" rel="nofollow">manually pingback</a> to this entry, but it did not work, so I'll <a href="http://www.businesssheet.com/2008/8/olympic-alchemy-michael-phelps-turning-gold-into-cash#comments" rel="nofollow">have to go with the "poor man's trackback"</a> (need to do this at several bloggers' entries - among other to-dos - being stuck here in St. Paul, too drained to blog, this might be a good time for that). Trackback from <strong><a href="http://uis.blogspot.com/2008_08_01_archive.html#7839340029787633568" rel="nofollow">Not going to take it anymore</a></strong>, University Blog <blockquote>- Also, for the Numb3rs-minded, you might want to check out this post, from a new weblog I just found out about (having been out-of-the-loop again, for awhile), via the Ecosystem. (I wonder where my weblog has fallen to, in that ranking.)</blockquote> Hello… I tried to manually pingback to this entry, but it did not work, so I’ll have to go with the “poor man’s trackback” (need to do this at several bloggers’ entries – among other to-dos – being stuck here in St. Paul, too drained to blog, this might be a good time for that).

Trackback from Not going to take it anymore, University Blog

- Also, for the Numb3rs-minded, you might want to check out this post, from a new weblog I just found out about (having been out-of-the-loop again, for awhile), via the Ecosystem. (I wonder where my weblog has fallen to, in that ranking.)

]]> By: cleek » i Ran, i Threw, i Jumped, i Won http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/08/19/the-hidden-complexity-of-the-olympics/comment-page-1/#comment-42161 cleek » i Ran, i Threw, i Jumped, i Won Tue, 26 Aug 2008 13:51:35 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/08/19/the-hidden-complexity-of-the-olympics/#comment-42161 [...] win the decathlon by doing exceedingly poorly? Well, yes, but your scores would only count in the imaginary world. Filed under: Uncategorized — cleek @ 9:51 [...] [...] win the decathlon by doing exceedingly poorly? Well, yes, but your scores would only count in the imaginary world. Filed under: Uncategorized — cleek @ 9:51 [...]

]]> By: Linkblogging for 24/08/08 « Thoughts on music, science, politics and comics. Mostly comics. http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/08/19/the-hidden-complexity-of-the-olympics/comment-page-1/#comment-42160 Linkblogging for 24/08/08 « Thoughts on music, science, politics and comics. Mostly comics. Sun, 24 Aug 2008 19:18:07 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/08/19/the-hidden-complexity-of-the-olympics/#comment-42160 [...] Cosmic Variance talk about the use of complex numbers in scoring for the Olympics. [...] [...] Cosmic Variance talk about the use of complex numbers in scoring for the Olympics. [...]

]]> By: Amiya Sarkar http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/08/19/the-hidden-complexity-of-the-olympics/comment-page-1/#comment-42133 Amiya Sarkar Sat, 23 Aug 2008 16:13:39 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/08/19/the-hidden-complexity-of-the-olympics/#comment-42133 The ranking system defies logic. A real super analysis on a real flop metric! The ranking system defies logic. A real super analysis on a real flop metric!

]]> By: Sili http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/08/19/the-hidden-complexity-of-the-olympics/comment-page-1/#comment-42135 Sili Fri, 22 Aug 2008 20:23:40 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/08/19/the-hidden-complexity-of-the-olympics/#comment-42135 Thank you, but I think I'll stick with the<a href="http://www.comics.com/comics/getfuzzy/archive/getfuzzy-20080820.html" rel="nofollow">Bucky Katt point system</a>. Thank you, but I think I’ll stick with theBucky Katt point system.

]]> By: Weekly Science Blog Roundup | Discoblog | Discover Magazine http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/08/19/the-hidden-complexity-of-the-olympics/comment-page-1/#comment-42159 Weekly Science Blog Roundup | Discoblog | Discover Magazine Fri, 22 Aug 2008 17:36:37 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/08/19/the-hidden-complexity-of-the-olympics/#comment-42159 [...] Cosmic Variance finds a hole in the math of the decathlon: If you run slowly enough, you can guarantee [...] [...] Cosmic Variance finds a hole in the math of the decathlon: If you run slowly enough, you can guarantee [...]

]]> By: daisyrose http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/08/19/the-hidden-complexity-of-the-olympics/comment-page-1/#comment-42127 daisyrose Fri, 22 Aug 2008 07:14:10 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/08/19/the-hidden-complexity-of-the-olympics/#comment-42127 #13 I did not get your joke - However I think you are correct in that there should be a score for "trying your best" #13 I did not get your joke – However I think you are correct in that there should be a score for “trying your best”

]]> By: carl http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/08/19/the-hidden-complexity-of-the-olympics/comment-page-1/#comment-42132 carl Thu, 21 Aug 2008 20:54:33 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/08/19/the-hidden-complexity-of-the-olympics/#comment-42132 What do you mean that there aren't any Americans who are competitive in the decathlon? Brian Clay is the reigning World Champion (and if you know anything about track and field, you know that the athletes respect World Champions as much as Olympic Champions). Here's his resume: 2005 World Outdoor champion; 2008 World Indoor champion; 2008 Olympic Trials champion; 3-time USA Outdoor champion (’04, ’05, ‘08); 2004 Olympic silver medalist; Two-time World Indoor silver medalist (’04, ’06); 2000 NAIA champion; two-time NAIA LJ champion ... not to mention that Chris Huffins (recently retired) and Tom Pappas (2003 World Champion) .... What do you mean that there aren’t any Americans who are competitive in the decathlon? Brian Clay is the reigning World Champion (and if you know anything about track and field, you know that the athletes respect World Champions as much as Olympic Champions). Here’s his resume:
2005 World Outdoor champion; 2008 World Indoor champion; 2008 Olympic Trials champion; 3-time USA Outdoor champion (’04, ’05, ‘08); 2004 Olympic silver medalist; Two-time World Indoor silver medalist (’04, ’06); 2000 NAIA champion; two-time NAIA LJ champion … not to mention that Chris Huffins (recently retired) and Tom Pappas (2003 World Champion) ….

]]> By: Ewan http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/08/19/the-hidden-complexity-of-the-olympics/comment-page-1/#comment-42125 Ewan Thu, 21 Aug 2008 01:55:54 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/08/19/the-hidden-complexity-of-the-olympics/#comment-42125 In the currently highly competitive field of Olympics posts, this one wins. Fabulous (and educational). Thanks! [I wonder whether there's some math basis for picking ten events that would make the 'best' decathlon, and what the criteris for such would be? Hmm.] In the currently highly competitive field of Olympics posts, this one wins. Fabulous (and educational). Thanks!

[I wonder whether there's some math basis for picking ten events that would make the 'best' decathlon, and what the criteris for such would be? Hmm.]

]]> By: Alexander http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/08/19/the-hidden-complexity-of-the-olympics/comment-page-1/#comment-42126 Alexander Thu, 21 Aug 2008 01:09:32 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/08/19/the-hidden-complexity-of-the-olympics/#comment-42126 I score this post at 1337. That was fantastic. Thank you for making me laugh. I have always thought that any event that needs a judge shouldn't be an event, but it looks like every event needs a mathematical jury now. I score this post at 1337. That was fantastic. Thank you for making me laugh. I have always thought that any event that needs a judge shouldn’t be an event, but it looks like every event needs a mathematical jury now.

]]> By: Olympic Math « Nine Sisters http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/08/19/the-hidden-complexity-of-the-olympics/comment-page-1/#comment-42134 Olympic Math « Nine Sisters Wed, 20 Aug 2008 21:24:43 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/08/19/the-hidden-complexity-of-the-olympics/#comment-42134 [...] Olympic Math Thank the Science Department chair at work for this one.  If you’re patient enough to understand the math, you might get a kick out of this site. [...] [...] Olympic Math Thank the Science Department chair at work for this one.  If you’re patient enough to understand the math, you might get a kick out of this site. [...]

]]> By: Antti http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/08/19/the-hidden-complexity-of-the-olympics/comment-page-1/#comment-42124 Antti Wed, 20 Aug 2008 16:48:09 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/08/19/the-hidden-complexity-of-the-olympics/#comment-42124 Oh, and I believe the world record quoted by Sean is off, the 9000 point mark was achieved already quite a few years ago. Oh, and I believe the world record quoted by Sean is off, the 9000 point mark was achieved already quite a few years ago.

]]> By: Antti http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/08/19/the-hidden-complexity-of-the-olympics/comment-page-1/#comment-42158 Antti Wed, 20 Aug 2008 16:13:14 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/08/19/the-hidden-complexity-of-the-olympics/#comment-42158 @ jmchez (post #2) "Wouldn’t it just be easier to compare the athlete’s performance as a fraction of the world record for that event?" In addition to the comments presented earlier in this thread (the point system should be non-linear because it becomes harder and harder to improve your result when you get better and better), there is also the almost trivial fact that world records tend to evolve in time. What happens if the world record of 100m sprint improves while the decathlon competition is still going on? Will the points from the 100m run in the decathlon race change accordingly? What happens to the old decathlon results when the world records improve later on? How can you meaningfully compare results from different decathlon competitions (necessary if one wants to talk about the world record of decathlon) if the way athletes are rewarded points has changed? In my opinion, those issues make it impossible to base the decathlon point system to the world records of the individual events. @ jmchez (post #2)

“Wouldn’t it just be easier to compare the athlete’s performance as a fraction of the world record for that event?”

In addition to the comments presented earlier in this thread (the point system should be non-linear because it becomes harder and harder to improve your result when you get better and better), there is also the almost trivial fact that world records tend to evolve in time. What happens if the world record of 100m sprint improves while the decathlon competition is still going on? Will the points from the 100m run in the decathlon race change accordingly? What happens to the old decathlon results when the world records improve later on? How can you meaningfully compare results from different decathlon competitions (necessary if one wants to talk about the world record of decathlon) if the way athletes are rewarded points has changed?

In my opinion, those issues make it impossible to base the decathlon point system to the world records of the individual events.

]]> By: Paul Murray http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/08/19/the-hidden-complexity-of-the-olympics/comment-page-1/#comment-42121 Paul Murray Wed, 20 Aug 2008 06:31:06 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/08/19/the-hidden-complexity-of-the-olympics/#comment-42121 Thus, we get rid of alpha and x0, just keep the beta terms and *multply* the results together rather than adding them. For timed events, the betas would be negative, of course. Thus, we get rid of alpha and x0, just keep the beta terms and *multply* the results together rather than adding them. For timed events, the betas would be negative, of course.

]]> By: Paul Murray http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/08/19/the-hidden-complexity-of-the-olympics/comment-page-1/#comment-42131 Paul Murray Wed, 20 Aug 2008 06:27:27 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/08/19/the-hidden-complexity-of-the-olympics/#comment-42131 I've said many times to anyone who will listen: when you are dealing with stuff where negative numbers don't make sense, take a log. In the case of the decathalon, we would be talking about a weighted geometrical average. Makes far more sense. I’ve said many times to anyone who will listen: when you are dealing with stuff where negative numbers don’t make sense, take a log. In the case of the decathalon, we would be talking about a weighted geometrical average. Makes far more sense.

]]> By: Josh http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/08/19/the-hidden-complexity-of-the-olympics/comment-page-1/#comment-42122 Josh Wed, 20 Aug 2008 05:48:33 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/08/19/the-hidden-complexity-of-the-olympics/#comment-42122 This post rules. This post rules.

]]> By: Sam Gralla http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/08/19/the-hidden-complexity-of-the-olympics/comment-page-1/#comment-42123 Sam Gralla Wed, 20 Aug 2008 04:31:01 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/08/19/the-hidden-complexity-of-the-olympics/#comment-42123 lol, gem of a post lol, gem of a post

]]> By: Arun http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/08/19/the-hidden-complexity-of-the-olympics/comment-page-1/#comment-42120 Arun Wed, 20 Aug 2008 01:15:14 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/08/19/the-hidden-complexity-of-the-olympics/#comment-42120 OMG.... didn't know about this system! Great post. OMG…. didn’t know about this system! Great post.

]]> By: Luke http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/08/19/the-hidden-complexity-of-the-olympics/comment-page-1/#comment-42119 Luke Wed, 20 Aug 2008 00:38:11 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/08/19/the-hidden-complexity-of-the-olympics/#comment-42119 Maybe the solution would be to hand imaginary medals to the athletes with the greatest imaginary comaponents in their total scores. Maybe the solution would be to hand imaginary medals to the athletes with the greatest imaginary comaponents in their total scores.

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