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	<title>Comments on: The First Quantum Cosmologist</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/08/21/the-first-quantum-cosmologist/</link>
	<description>Random samplings from a universe of ideas.</description>
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		<title>By: Richard Feynman on Boltzmann Brains &#124; Cosmic Variance &#124; Discover Magazine</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/08/21/the-first-quantum-cosmologist/comment-page-1/#comment-78382</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Feynman on Boltzmann Brains &#124; Cosmic Variance &#124; Discover Magazine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 16:32:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/08/21/the-first-quantum-cosmologist/#comment-78382</guid>
		<description>[...] first invocation of an argument along these lines, as far as I know, came from Sir Arthur Eddington in 1931. But it&#8217;s a fairly straightforward argument, once you grant the assumptions (although [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] first invocation of an argument along these lines, as far as I know, came from Sir Arthur Eddington in 1931. But it&#8217;s a fairly straightforward argument, once you grant the assumptions (although [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The Open Laboratory 2008 - and the Winners are&#8230;.. [A Blog Around The Clock]</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/08/21/the-first-quantum-cosmologist/comment-page-1/#comment-57373</link>
		<dc:creator>The Open Laboratory 2008 - and the Winners are&#8230;.. [A Blog Around The Clock]</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jan 2009 07:26:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/08/21/the-first-quantum-cosmologist/#comment-57373</guid>
		<description>[...] Cosmic Variance: The First Quantum Cosmologist [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Cosmic Variance: The First Quantum Cosmologist [...]</p>
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		<title>By: And Things for Them to Blog About &#124; Cosmic Variance &#124; Discover Magazine</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/08/21/the-first-quantum-cosmologist/comment-page-1/#comment-57312</link>
		<dc:creator>And Things for Them to Blog About &#124; Cosmic Variance &#124; Discover Magazine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2009 23:55:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/08/21/the-first-quantum-cosmologist/#comment-57312</guid>
		<description>[...] I wasn&#8217;t responsible for making the tough choices. Also glad that they chose one of my posts, The First Quantum Cosmologist. You can also read about The Igneous Petrology of Ice Cream (Green Gabbro), Expect the Unexpected [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I wasn&#8217;t responsible for making the tough choices. Also glad that they chose one of my posts, The First Quantum Cosmologist. You can also read about The Igneous Petrology of Ice Cream (Green Gabbro), Expect the Unexpected [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Randy</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/08/21/the-first-quantum-cosmologist/comment-page-1/#comment-42193</link>
		<dc:creator>Randy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Sep 2008 16:47:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/08/21/the-first-quantum-cosmologist/#comment-42193</guid>
		<description>A &quot;neither world&quot; is both existant and not at the same time.  Quantum flux particle acceleration = matter.  Quantum flux particle accelerators can be a very big thing when pumping energy into the void.

A state of being only occurs where there is a significant quantum flux in the quantum void or vacuum.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A &#8220;neither world&#8221; is both existant and not at the same time.  Quantum flux particle acceleration = matter.  Quantum flux particle accelerators can be a very big thing when pumping energy into the void.</p>
<p>A state of being only occurs where there is a significant quantum flux in the quantum void or vacuum.</p>
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		<title>By: Khan Muhammad</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/08/21/the-first-quantum-cosmologist/comment-page-1/#comment-42178</link>
		<dc:creator>Khan Muhammad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Aug 2008 20:39:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/08/21/the-first-quantum-cosmologist/#comment-42178</guid>
		<description>Very interesting. One of my favorite posts in Cosmic Variance.

I tried to read the foreward of &quot;The Difference Between the Democritean and Epicurean Philosophy of Nature&quot; (Doctoral Dissertation of Karl Marx) few months earlier but understood nothing.
Today, I&#039;ve got something more objective to think of. Finally, I am starting to understand the materialism of Karl Marx.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very interesting. One of my favorite posts in Cosmic Variance.</p>
<p>I tried to read the foreward of &#8220;The Difference Between the Democritean and Epicurean Philosophy of Nature&#8221; (Doctoral Dissertation of Karl Marx) few months earlier but understood nothing.<br />
Today, I&#8217;ve got something more objective to think of. Finally, I am starting to understand the materialism of Karl Marx.</p>
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		<title>By: Dienekes</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/08/21/the-first-quantum-cosmologist/comment-page-1/#comment-42177</link>
		<dc:creator>Dienekes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Aug 2008 13:44:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/08/21/the-first-quantum-cosmologist/#comment-42177</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;But as I said, Dienekes, Democritus didn’t think he needed to test it.&lt;/i&gt;

There was no way to test it back then. Should Democritus have conceived of the telescope too?

Your notion that the atomists (especially Democritus) did not see the need to test their theories is not based on any evidence. Their works abound with empirical justifications for their theories.

You&#039;d have a point if Democritus&#039; theory on the Galaxy was just a wild guess. If someone makes 1,000 wild guesses, then one of them may turn out to be true, but that doesn&#039;t make him a visionary.

However, Democritus didn&#039;t get it right about the Galaxy by a wild guess. His idea was a natural consequence of his physical theory.

Scientists extrapolate their theories beyond what can be tested at the time. They proposed the idea of a &quot;black hole&quot; long before anyone thought of a way to &quot;observe&quot; one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>But as I said, Dienekes, Democritus didn’t think he needed to test it.</i></p>
<p>There was no way to test it back then. Should Democritus have conceived of the telescope too?</p>
<p>Your notion that the atomists (especially Democritus) did not see the need to test their theories is not based on any evidence. Their works abound with empirical justifications for their theories.</p>
<p>You&#8217;d have a point if Democritus&#8217; theory on the Galaxy was just a wild guess. If someone makes 1,000 wild guesses, then one of them may turn out to be true, but that doesn&#8217;t make him a visionary.</p>
<p>However, Democritus didn&#8217;t get it right about the Galaxy by a wild guess. His idea was a natural consequence of his physical theory.</p>
<p>Scientists extrapolate their theories beyond what can be tested at the time. They proposed the idea of a &#8220;black hole&#8221; long before anyone thought of a way to &#8220;observe&#8221; one.</p>
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		<title>By: yo</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/08/21/the-first-quantum-cosmologist/comment-page-1/#comment-42176</link>
		<dc:creator>yo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Aug 2008 17:43:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/08/21/the-first-quantum-cosmologist/#comment-42176</guid>
		<description>He applied logic to nature, as far as i am concerned
he was a scientist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He applied logic to nature, as far as i am concerned<br />
he was a scientist.</p>
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		<title>By: Seth Zenz</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/08/21/the-first-quantum-cosmologist/comment-page-1/#comment-42169</link>
		<dc:creator>Seth Zenz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Aug 2008 17:09:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/08/21/the-first-quantum-cosmologist/#comment-42169</guid>
		<description>But as I said, Dienekes, Democritus didn&#039;t think he needed to test it.  And he didn&#039;t believe it because his previous observations made him suspect it explained the data better than the alternative hypothesis.  So he believed something that turned out to be true, but as far as I&#039;m aware, it was for the wrong reasons.  How visionary is that, really?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But as I said, Dienekes, Democritus didn&#8217;t think he needed to test it.  And he didn&#8217;t believe it because his previous observations made him suspect it explained the data better than the alternative hypothesis.  So he believed something that turned out to be true, but as far as I&#8217;m aware, it was for the wrong reasons.  How visionary is that, really?</p>
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		<title>By: Dienekes</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/08/21/the-first-quantum-cosmologist/comment-page-1/#comment-42166</link>
		<dc:creator>Dienekes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Aug 2008 15:50:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/08/21/the-first-quantum-cosmologist/#comment-42166</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I think theories do become less useful the further in the future that testing is&lt;/i&gt;

That is true only from the viewpoint of the time when theories are proposed. They are not immediately useful; they may be appealing because of their simplicity or elegance, but you can&#039;t accept them fully.

It is the empirical evidence that decides whether such theories are _accepted_ as scientific explanations. Theories are right or wrong whether or not they are recognized as such or not. It doesn&#039;t make one iota of difference whether they are recognized as such during or shortly after their originator&#039;s lifetime. In fact, the larger the intervening time, the more visionary they appear to be.

&lt;i&gt;The Higgs boson was testable much longer ago than you might think–it’s just that the searches for the Higgs boson at a few GeV came up negative.&lt;/i&gt;

Democritus&#039; theory was also testable when the first magnifying glasses appeared. Eventually one of them was powerful enough, and someone pointed it to the heavens, and the theory was confirmed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I think theories do become less useful the further in the future that testing is</i></p>
<p>That is true only from the viewpoint of the time when theories are proposed. They are not immediately useful; they may be appealing because of their simplicity or elegance, but you can&#8217;t accept them fully.</p>
<p>It is the empirical evidence that decides whether such theories are _accepted_ as scientific explanations. Theories are right or wrong whether or not they are recognized as such or not. It doesn&#8217;t make one iota of difference whether they are recognized as such during or shortly after their originator&#8217;s lifetime. In fact, the larger the intervening time, the more visionary they appear to be.</p>
<p><i>The Higgs boson was testable much longer ago than you might think–it’s just that the searches for the Higgs boson at a few GeV came up negative.</i></p>
<p>Democritus&#8217; theory was also testable when the first magnifying glasses appeared. Eventually one of them was powerful enough, and someone pointed it to the heavens, and the theory was confirmed.</p>
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		<title>By: Seth Zenz</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/08/21/the-first-quantum-cosmologist/comment-page-1/#comment-42175</link>
		<dc:creator>Seth Zenz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Aug 2008 14:08:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/08/21/the-first-quantum-cosmologist/#comment-42175</guid>
		<description>Hi Dienekes,

Of course a theory can be proposed before it can be tested empirically.  I think theories do become less useful the further in the future that testing is, and several of your example theories were proposed virtually hand-in-hand with corresponding experiments.  The Higgs boson was testable much longer ago than you might think--it&#039;s just that the searches for the Higgs boson at a few GeV came up negative.  And of course, Einstein himself predicted how to test General Relativity using the 1919 solar eclipse, only four years after he published the theory, and the test worked out well.

But the larger issue, and the reason that the ancient atomists weren&#039;t really scientists, is that (as far as I understand it) they had no &lt;i&gt;concept&lt;/i&gt; that their ideas needed to be tested.  Are their ideas important philosophical building blocks of science?  Yes.  But were they scientists?  No.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Dienekes,</p>
<p>Of course a theory can be proposed before it can be tested empirically.  I think theories do become less useful the further in the future that testing is, and several of your example theories were proposed virtually hand-in-hand with corresponding experiments.  The Higgs boson was testable much longer ago than you might think&#8211;it&#8217;s just that the searches for the Higgs boson at a few GeV came up negative.  And of course, Einstein himself predicted how to test General Relativity using the 1919 solar eclipse, only four years after he published the theory, and the test worked out well.</p>
<p>But the larger issue, and the reason that the ancient atomists weren&#8217;t really scientists, is that (as far as I understand it) they had no <i>concept</i> that their ideas needed to be tested.  Are their ideas important philosophical building blocks of science?  Yes.  But were they scientists?  No.</p>
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