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	<title>Comments on: Where They Stand on Science</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/09/02/where-they-stand-on-science/</link>
	<description>Random samplings from a universe of ideas.</description>
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		<title>By: 61 Nobel Laureates can&#8217;t be wrong &#124; Cosmic Variance</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/09/02/where-they-stand-on-science/comment-page-1/#comment-42797</link>
		<dc:creator>61 Nobel Laureates can&#8217;t be wrong &#124; Cosmic Variance</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 03:09:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/09/02/where-they-stand-on-science/#comment-42797</guid>
		<description>[...] Of course, there has been plenty of evidence for the decline of the scientific enterprise in the US (science funding issues, The Gathering Storm, the politicization of science). Eight years of Bush have not been kind to science. And given the challenges we are facing (e.g., how to sustain well over 6 billion people without destroying our planet), this is not the time to short-change the scientific enterprise. Sadly, there is much evidence that McCain will carry on the Republican trend. Picking a running-mate that believes the Earth is 3000 years old, and that humans have nothing to do with global warming, does not inspire confidence. The McCain campaign has finally responded to the questions from Science Debate 2008, and the answers are mostly platitudes, without substance or firm commitments. Obama, on the other hand, gives science its due. His campaign has released an extremely detailed plan to rescue science. Both Nature and Physics Today have done fairly thorough comparisons, as has a certain somebody&#8217;s better half. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Of course, there has been plenty of evidence for the decline of the scientific enterprise in the US (science funding issues, The Gathering Storm, the politicization of science). Eight years of Bush have not been kind to science. And given the challenges we are facing (e.g., how to sustain well over 6 billion people without destroying our planet), this is not the time to short-change the scientific enterprise. Sadly, there is much evidence that McCain will carry on the Republican trend. Picking a running-mate that believes the Earth is 3000 years old, and that humans have nothing to do with global warming, does not inspire confidence. The McCain campaign has finally responded to the questions from Science Debate 2008, and the answers are mostly platitudes, without substance or firm commitments. Obama, on the other hand, gives science its due. His campaign has released an extremely detailed plan to rescue science. Both Nature and Physics Today have done fairly thorough comparisons, as has a certain somebody&#8217;s better half. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Elliot</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/09/02/where-they-stand-on-science/comment-page-1/#comment-42784</link>
		<dc:creator>Elliot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Sep 2008 16:02:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/09/02/where-they-stand-on-science/#comment-42784</guid>
		<description>John,

Check the latest polling numbers. Palin&#039;s 15 minutes are up.

e.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John,</p>
<p>Check the latest polling numbers. Palin&#8217;s 15 minutes are up.</p>
<p>e.</p>
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		<title>By: John Knight</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/09/02/where-they-stand-on-science/comment-page-1/#comment-42782</link>
		<dc:creator>John Knight</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Sep 2008 13:08:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/09/02/where-they-stand-on-science/#comment-42782</guid>
		<description>Elliot, thank you for illustrating the desperation of Obama supporters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Elliot, thank you for illustrating the desperation of Obama supporters.</p>
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		<title>By: Elliot</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/09/02/where-they-stand-on-science/comment-page-1/#comment-42772</link>
		<dc:creator>Elliot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 04:57:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/09/02/where-they-stand-on-science/#comment-42772</guid>
		<description>John,

We don&#039;t need the daily &quot;talking points&quot; memo from the McCain campaign cut and pasted  for us. If we want to read them we can go to the campaign web site.

Are you next going to tell us the story of how his loving wife Cindy sits there every night and types his e-mails for him?

Stephen Hawking is in much worse physical shape than McCain and I personally saw him responding to an email himself. He was discussing climate change with Al Gore.

e.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John,</p>
<p>We don&#8217;t need the daily &#8220;talking points&#8221; memo from the McCain campaign cut and pasted  for us. If we want to read them we can go to the campaign web site.</p>
<p>Are you next going to tell us the story of how his loving wife Cindy sits there every night and types his e-mails for him?</p>
<p>Stephen Hawking is in much worse physical shape than McCain and I personally saw him responding to an email himself. He was discussing climate change with Al Gore.</p>
<p>e.</p>
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		<title>By: John Knight</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/09/02/where-they-stand-on-science/comment-page-1/#comment-42755</link>
		<dc:creator>John Knight</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 14:49:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/09/02/where-they-stand-on-science/#comment-42755</guid>
		<description>I notice the Obama camp is running an ad criticizing McCain as &quot;out of touch&quot; because he allegedly does not use e-mail.  Actually, McCain does use e-mail &amp; is considered quite Net-savvy by those who know him.  However, because of his war injuries to his hands &amp; arms, it is physically painful for him to use a keyboard for any length of time.

Criticizing a decorated veteran for his war injuries.  Now &lt;I&gt;that’s&lt;/I&gt; out of touch.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I notice the Obama camp is running an ad criticizing McCain as &#8220;out of touch&#8221; because he allegedly does not use e-mail.  Actually, McCain does use e-mail &amp; is considered quite Net-savvy by those who know him.  However, because of his war injuries to his hands &amp; arms, it is physically painful for him to use a keyboard for any length of time.</p>
<p>Criticizing a decorated veteran for his war injuries.  Now <i>that’s</i> out of touch.</p>
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		<title>By: Foolish Planetariums &#124; Cosmic Variance</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/09/02/where-they-stand-on-science/comment-page-1/#comment-42754</link>
		<dc:creator>Foolish Planetariums &#124; Cosmic Variance</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 07:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/09/02/where-they-stand-on-science/#comment-42754</guid>
		<description>[...] stand on science issues – a topic not usually covered by the press. Obama sent in his answers a couple of weeks ago and McCain’s appeared today. A side-by-side comparison of the candidate&#8217;s replies can be [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] stand on science issues – a topic not usually covered by the press. Obama sent in his answers a couple of weeks ago and McCain’s appeared today. A side-by-side comparison of the candidate&#8217;s replies can be [...]</p>
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		<title>By: rpl</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/09/02/where-they-stand-on-science/comment-page-1/#comment-42796</link>
		<dc:creator>rpl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Sep 2008 13:28:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/09/02/where-they-stand-on-science/#comment-42796</guid>
		<description>Michael,

Your points are well-taken, but I have three quick observations:

First, I&#039;m not sure that the difference in religious and superstitious belief between the two parties is as stark as you believe.  Surveys show that non-religious people are a minority in this country by a wide margin (which is why Democratic and Republican politicians alike make a public spectacle of their church attendance), so for Democrats and Republicans to be as close in national polls as they generally are, there must be a fair proportion of religious Democrats.

Second, wedge issues are a staple of politicians everywhere.  Indeed, if you take away the wedge issues, there is precious little daylight between the two parties&#039; platforms.  Lately, Democrats have taken to using science as a wedge issue, and science always comes out the worse for it.  For example, the 105th Congress passed the Byrd-Hagel resolution on global climate change by a vote of 95-0, which is about as bipartisan as you could ask for.  Then, in the 2000 campaign Al Gore turned the issue of climate change into a political football, the battle lines were drawn, and the result was &lt;em&gt;less&lt;/em&gt; progress on fighting climate change, not more.  Politics wins, science loses, which is pretty much always the case when science and politics mix.

Finally, do you dispute that Democrats would throw science under the bus in a heartbeat, if a scientific finding conflicted with a cherished plank in the Democratic platform?  We&#039;ve already seen plenty of anti-intellectualism in the Clinton campaign, but perhaps the Obama camp is different.  I wouldn&#039;t bet on it, though.

I suppose my thinking is a bit muddled, inasmuch as I am not even sure what I am trying to convince you of.  Certainly I&#039;m not suggesting anyone should vote Republican.  I suppose it just bothers me to see so many of my friends and colleagues so willing to be duped.  The pursuits of power and science are not consistent with one another, and we should never forget which one the political parties have chosen.  In the end, I think we &lt;em&gt;want to believe&lt;/em&gt; that there are good guys out there who will crusade for what we know to be right.  Having identified the bad guys, we assume that the people who oppose them are the crusaders we seek.  We then put away our &quot;baloney detection kits&quot; and give them a pass on any ridiculous thing they might say.  I think that&#039;s a mistake.  I think it&#039;s &lt;em&gt;more&lt;/em&gt; important to debunk the ridiculous things espoused by &quot;our&quot; guys than the ones by &quot;their&quot; guys, and if you ever find yourself at a loss for something ridiculous from your favorite candidate, it&#039;s then that you need to worry most that you&#039;ve been taken in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael,</p>
<p>Your points are well-taken, but I have three quick observations:</p>
<p>First, I&#8217;m not sure that the difference in religious and superstitious belief between the two parties is as stark as you believe.  Surveys show that non-religious people are a minority in this country by a wide margin (which is why Democratic and Republican politicians alike make a public spectacle of their church attendance), so for Democrats and Republicans to be as close in national polls as they generally are, there must be a fair proportion of religious Democrats.</p>
<p>Second, wedge issues are a staple of politicians everywhere.  Indeed, if you take away the wedge issues, there is precious little daylight between the two parties&#8217; platforms.  Lately, Democrats have taken to using science as a wedge issue, and science always comes out the worse for it.  For example, the 105th Congress passed the Byrd-Hagel resolution on global climate change by a vote of 95-0, which is about as bipartisan as you could ask for.  Then, in the 2000 campaign Al Gore turned the issue of climate change into a political football, the battle lines were drawn, and the result was <em>less</em> progress on fighting climate change, not more.  Politics wins, science loses, which is pretty much always the case when science and politics mix.</p>
<p>Finally, do you dispute that Democrats would throw science under the bus in a heartbeat, if a scientific finding conflicted with a cherished plank in the Democratic platform?  We&#8217;ve already seen plenty of anti-intellectualism in the Clinton campaign, but perhaps the Obama camp is different.  I wouldn&#8217;t bet on it, though.</p>
<p>I suppose my thinking is a bit muddled, inasmuch as I am not even sure what I am trying to convince you of.  Certainly I&#8217;m not suggesting anyone should vote Republican.  I suppose it just bothers me to see so many of my friends and colleagues so willing to be duped.  The pursuits of power and science are not consistent with one another, and we should never forget which one the political parties have chosen.  In the end, I think we <em>want to believe</em> that there are good guys out there who will crusade for what we know to be right.  Having identified the bad guys, we assume that the people who oppose them are the crusaders we seek.  We then put away our &#8220;baloney detection kits&#8221; and give them a pass on any ridiculous thing they might say.  I think that&#8217;s a mistake.  I think it&#8217;s <em>more</em> important to debunk the ridiculous things espoused by &#8220;our&#8221; guys than the ones by &#8220;their&#8221; guys, and if you ever find yourself at a loss for something ridiculous from your favorite candidate, it&#8217;s then that you need to worry most that you&#8217;ve been taken in.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/09/02/where-they-stand-on-science/comment-page-1/#comment-42795</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Sep 2008 18:22:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/09/02/where-they-stand-on-science/#comment-42795</guid>
		<description>&quot;I will grant you that lately the Republicans have been worse than the Democrats when it comes to opposing science, but I think it’s a mistake for us as scientists to assume that that makes the Democrats our friends.&quot;

rpl,

The points you make are true only in the most abstract sense.  Any fair summary of Republicans vs Democrats -- the personal views of each party&#039;s participants and supporters -- would, I believe, demonstrate that among Republicans generally there is a much higher proportion of religious, superstitious and anti-intellectual thinking.  Not just that, but it is something of which they are proud and use as wedge issues to win elections.

Sure, both parties are bad in many respects.  Sure, some of my best friends are Republicans.  However, in an effort to give the appearance of objectivity &quot;in the end, I think your post shows a lot of muddled thinking.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I will grant you that lately the Republicans have been worse than the Democrats when it comes to opposing science, but I think it’s a mistake for us as scientists to assume that that makes the Democrats our friends.&#8221;</p>
<p>rpl,</p>
<p>The points you make are true only in the most abstract sense.  Any fair summary of Republicans vs Democrats &#8212; the personal views of each party&#8217;s participants and supporters &#8212; would, I believe, demonstrate that among Republicans generally there is a much higher proportion of religious, superstitious and anti-intellectual thinking.  Not just that, but it is something of which they are proud and use as wedge issues to win elections.</p>
<p>Sure, both parties are bad in many respects.  Sure, some of my best friends are Republicans.  However, in an effort to give the appearance of objectivity &#8220;in the end, I think your post shows a lot of muddled thinking.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Chris W.</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/09/02/where-they-stand-on-science/comment-page-1/#comment-42794</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris W.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 21:50:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/09/02/where-they-stand-on-science/#comment-42794</guid>
		<description>PS: To put it more succinctly, the teaching of science in schools tends to follow the path of least resistance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PS: To put it more succinctly, the teaching of science in schools tends to follow the path of least resistance.</p>
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		<title>By: Elliot</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/09/02/where-they-stand-on-science/comment-page-1/#comment-42793</link>
		<dc:creator>Elliot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 21:20:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/09/02/where-they-stand-on-science/#comment-42793</guid>
		<description>Chris,

That is an interesting perspective. I was obviously focused on the hierarchy of complex systems instead of looking at it from the point of view of an observer of the world.

But what you say does make sense.

e.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris,</p>
<p>That is an interesting perspective. I was obviously focused on the hierarchy of complex systems instead of looking at it from the point of view of an observer of the world.</p>
<p>But what you say does make sense.</p>
<p>e.</p>
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