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	<title>Comments on: Awful Hubble News</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/09/29/awful-hubble-news/</link>
	<description>Random samplings from a universe of ideas.</description>
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		<title>By: An Update on Hubble &#124; Cosmic Variance</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/09/29/awful-hubble-news/comment-page-1/#comment-43726</link>
		<dc:creator>An Update on Hubble &#124; Cosmic Variance</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 20:49:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/09/29/awful-hubble-news/#comment-43726</guid>
		<description>[...] when we last left our poor afflicted orbiting telescope, it had lost side A of its CU/SDF (Control Unit/Science Data Formatter), which is responsible for [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] when we last left our poor afflicted orbiting telescope, it had lost side A of its CU/SDF (Control Unit/Science Data Formatter), which is responsible for [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Erwin</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/09/29/awful-hubble-news/comment-page-1/#comment-43738</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Erwin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 18:45:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/09/29/awful-hubble-news/#comment-43738</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;... The astronauts are being trained up so that mental decisions, body motions, and technology operate perfectly according to a script.&lt;/i&gt;

I think they&#039;re also well-trained to deal with snags and failures, and to come up with on-the-spot solutions if that&#039;s possible.  There have been a number of cases (certainly with ISS construction, if not with previous HST missions) where astronauts have had alter plans in mid-mission and come up alternative approaches.  It wouldn&#039;t surprise me at all if missions which went exactly as planned were the exception rather than the rule, and that the astronauts are well aware of this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8230; The astronauts are being trained up so that mental decisions, body motions, and technology operate perfectly according to a script.</i></p>
<p>I think they&#8217;re also well-trained to deal with snags and failures, and to come up with on-the-spot solutions if that&#8217;s possible.  There have been a number of cases (certainly with ISS construction, if not with previous HST missions) where astronauts have had alter plans in mid-mission and come up alternative approaches.  It wouldn&#8217;t surprise me at all if missions which went exactly as planned were the exception rather than the rule, and that the astronauts are well aware of this.</p>
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		<title>By: Lawrence B. Crowell</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/09/29/awful-hubble-news/comment-page-1/#comment-43737</link>
		<dc:creator>Lawrence B. Crowell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 17:57:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/09/29/awful-hubble-news/#comment-43737</guid>
		<description>There are a number of reasons why that can&#039;t happen.  The biggest is that the orbits are too different.  The energy for nonHohmann orbital changes which change the angular momentum of the orbit is large.  The shuttle would have to loft a fairly large rocket engine to do this, with all types of payload configuration issues which would have to be worked in orbit.  There were plans to loft a Delta motor in the shuttle, but it was realized this amounted to putting a bomb on the shuttle.  The program was scapped.

The Hubble could not be attached physically to the ISS.  The ISS is a large multi-mode vibrational structure, which would prove to be horrible.

Bringing the Hubble back to Earth is not likely either.  The flight dynamics of the ship would be very different and more difficult with a large payload on board.  It would be a very risky venture.

Lawrence B. Crowell</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are a number of reasons why that can&#8217;t happen.  The biggest is that the orbits are too different.  The energy for nonHohmann orbital changes which change the angular momentum of the orbit is large.  The shuttle would have to loft a fairly large rocket engine to do this, with all types of payload configuration issues which would have to be worked in orbit.  There were plans to loft a Delta motor in the shuttle, but it was realized this amounted to putting a bomb on the shuttle.  The program was scapped.</p>
<p>The Hubble could not be attached physically to the ISS.  The ISS is a large multi-mode vibrational structure, which would prove to be horrible.</p>
<p>Bringing the Hubble back to Earth is not likely either.  The flight dynamics of the ship would be very different and more difficult with a large payload on board.  It would be a very risky venture.</p>
<p>Lawrence B. Crowell</p>
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		<title>By: Count Iblis</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/09/29/awful-hubble-news/comment-page-1/#comment-43718</link>
		<dc:creator>Count Iblis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 16:37:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/09/29/awful-hubble-news/#comment-43718</guid>
		<description>Why not put a telescope on the ISS?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why not put a telescope on the ISS?</p>
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		<title>By: Lawrence B. Crowell</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/09/29/awful-hubble-news/comment-page-1/#comment-43725</link>
		<dc:creator>Lawrence B. Crowell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 15:43:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/09/29/awful-hubble-news/#comment-43725</guid>
		<description>Last summer I watched Niel DeGrasse-Tyson&#039;s program on PBS &quot;Science Now&quot; which went through what was required to make this repair.  In a word it appears that the repair job amounts to fixing a Swiss watch while wearing welder&#039;s gloves.  There is also only one chance to do it.  The main camera&#039;s circuit board needs to be replaced, and if done on Earth it could be done without so much as a sneeze of a problem.  In orbit the astronauts need to remove these small screws, they can&#039;t lose any of them for it might rattle around the optics and damage them, remove the malfunctioning board or data module, insert the new one and replace the panel enclosure with the screws.  The whole operation must go flawlessly.

The astronauts are being trained up so that mental decisions, body motions, and technology operate perfectly according to a script.  It looks as if anything that could go wrong could hex the Hubble Telescope for good.  I am not privy to the inside information on this, but maybe there needs to be reconsideration of the whole protocal.

Lawrence B. Crowell</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Last summer I watched Niel DeGrasse-Tyson&#8217;s program on PBS &#8220;Science Now&#8221; which went through what was required to make this repair.  In a word it appears that the repair job amounts to fixing a Swiss watch while wearing welder&#8217;s gloves.  There is also only one chance to do it.  The main camera&#8217;s circuit board needs to be replaced, and if done on Earth it could be done without so much as a sneeze of a problem.  In orbit the astronauts need to remove these small screws, they can&#8217;t lose any of them for it might rattle around the optics and damage them, remove the malfunctioning board or data module, insert the new one and replace the panel enclosure with the screws.  The whole operation must go flawlessly.</p>
<p>The astronauts are being trained up so that mental decisions, body motions, and technology operate perfectly according to a script.  It looks as if anything that could go wrong could hex the Hubble Telescope for good.  I am not privy to the inside information on this, but maybe there needs to be reconsideration of the whole protocal.</p>
<p>Lawrence B. Crowell</p>
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		<title>By: Ed</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/09/29/awful-hubble-news/comment-page-1/#comment-43736</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 11:13:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/09/29/awful-hubble-news/#comment-43736</guid>
		<description>Roman: &lt;blockquote&gt;Re-entry with that much additional weight - wouldn’t this even be possible?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Yes, it must be possible.  Hubble was launched on the Shuttle and they must have had the option to re-enter with it still on board in case there was a problem with deployment.

Back in the days when they used the Shuttle to launch multiple satellites they took care to release them in the right order so if the second (or third?) failed to deploy after the first (or second?) had been released the centre of gravity would be in the right range for re-entry and landing.  If the first had failed to deploy then it would have been, literally, suicidal to attempt to release the second.

Concerns about folding it up (particularly the replaced solar panels - remember that the panels on it now are not the ones which folded out after its initial release from the Shuttle) and issues of contamination sound very real to me, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Roman:<br />
<blockquote>Re-entry with that much additional weight &#8211; wouldn’t this even be possible?</p></blockquote>
<p>Yes, it must be possible.  Hubble was launched on the Shuttle and they must have had the option to re-enter with it still on board in case there was a problem with deployment.</p>
<p>Back in the days when they used the Shuttle to launch multiple satellites they took care to release them in the right order so if the second (or third?) failed to deploy after the first (or second?) had been released the centre of gravity would be in the right range for re-entry and landing.  If the first had failed to deploy then it would have been, literally, suicidal to attempt to release the second.</p>
<p>Concerns about folding it up (particularly the replaced solar panels &#8211; remember that the panels on it now are not the ones which folded out after its initial release from the Shuttle) and issues of contamination sound very real to me, though.</p>
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		<title>By: dio</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/09/29/awful-hubble-news/comment-page-1/#comment-43735</link>
		<dc:creator>dio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 09:13:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/09/29/awful-hubble-news/#comment-43735</guid>
		<description>Strangely, there is no updates in the STScI site, however &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/080929-shuttle-hubble-update.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;
there is an updated information:
&quot;Replacing the 136-pound (62-kg) data formatter box should be relatively straightforward for Atlantis&#039;s crew, requiring about two hours during one of the mission&#039;s five back-to-back spacewalks to perform...&quot;
Regarding the adaptive optics on the ground-based telescopes and the HST, there is a nice
&lt;a href=&quot;http://sco.stsci.edu/second_decade/html/prefirt_meeting_inputs_20.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;page&lt;/a&gt;, or
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.aura-astronomy.org/nv/hst_vs_ao_2.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;PDF document&lt;/a&gt;. The major conclusion is:  &quot;Ground-based telescopes are an essential tool for astronomy, but will not
surpass Hubble&#039;s optical imaging performance by 2015.&quot;
What is surprising to me is that there is no discussion in the astronomical community concerning the future optical-UV replace of the HST. I am aware of only one project &lt;a href=&quot;http://wso.inasan.ru/index.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;the WSO/UV&lt;/a&gt;, which appears to me inferior to the HST with its 1.7 meter primary mirror diameter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Strangely, there is no updates in the STScI site, however <a href="http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/080929-shuttle-hubble-update.html" rel="nofollow">here</a><br />
there is an updated information:<br />
&#8220;Replacing the 136-pound (62-kg) data formatter box should be relatively straightforward for Atlantis&#8217;s crew, requiring about two hours during one of the mission&#8217;s five back-to-back spacewalks to perform&#8230;&#8221;<br />
Regarding the adaptive optics on the ground-based telescopes and the HST, there is a nice<br />
<a href="http://sco.stsci.edu/second_decade/html/prefirt_meeting_inputs_20.html" rel="nofollow">page</a>, or<br />
<a href="http://www.aura-astronomy.org/nv/hst_vs_ao_2.pdf" rel="nofollow">PDF document</a>. The major conclusion is:  &#8220;Ground-based telescopes are an essential tool for astronomy, but will not<br />
surpass Hubble&#8217;s optical imaging performance by 2015.&#8221;<br />
What is surprising to me is that there is no discussion in the astronomical community concerning the future optical-UV replace of the HST. I am aware of only one project <a href="http://wso.inasan.ru/index.html" rel="nofollow">the WSO/UV</a>, which appears to me inferior to the HST with its 1.7 meter primary mirror diameter.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/09/29/awful-hubble-news/comment-page-1/#comment-43722</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 04:28:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/09/29/awful-hubble-news/#comment-43722</guid>
		<description>Apart from all the financial reasons why HST could not be retrieved and relaunched, I suspect that it would be difficult (not impossible) to fold it back up - mostly the solar panels, and possibly internal moving parts - and pack it to guarantee that it would survive the trip back; you&#039;d have to rebuild a lot of the telescope once it was down here.

And I think it actually would be impossible to get it down to Earth and back up without an unacceptable level of contamination, which would then outgas and cause all sorts of problems.  Yes, everything on Hubble started from Earth, but it went from a clean room to the launch vehicle to orbit.

I suspect a real accounting would show that it is always cheaper to build and launch a new thingy than to retrieve and relaunch one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apart from all the financial reasons why HST could not be retrieved and relaunched, I suspect that it would be difficult (not impossible) to fold it back up &#8211; mostly the solar panels, and possibly internal moving parts &#8211; and pack it to guarantee that it would survive the trip back; you&#8217;d have to rebuild a lot of the telescope once it was down here.</p>
<p>And I think it actually would be impossible to get it down to Earth and back up without an unacceptable level of contamination, which would then outgas and cause all sorts of problems.  Yes, everything on Hubble started from Earth, but it went from a clean room to the launch vehicle to orbit.</p>
<p>I suspect a real accounting would show that it is always cheaper to build and launch a new thingy than to retrieve and relaunch one.</p>
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		<title>By: Brad Holden</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/09/29/awful-hubble-news/comment-page-1/#comment-43734</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad Holden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 03:36:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/09/29/awful-hubble-news/#comment-43734</guid>
		<description>There is an interesting &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/30/science/space/W30hubb.html?ref=us&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;NYT article here&lt;/a&gt;.

I am going to admire Kai saying &quot;sizeable field of view&quot; and &quot;Hubble&quot; in the same sentence (and have that sentence be correct!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is an interesting <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/30/science/space/W30hubb.html?ref=us" rel="nofollow">NYT article here</a>.</p>
<p>I am going to admire Kai saying &#8220;sizeable field of view&#8221; and &#8220;Hubble&#8221; in the same sentence (and have that sentence be correct!)</p>
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		<title>By: Lab Lemming</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/09/29/awful-hubble-news/comment-page-1/#comment-43733</link>
		<dc:creator>Lab Lemming</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 02:10:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/09/29/awful-hubble-news/#comment-43733</guid>
		<description>Why can&#039;t you relaunch on a normal rocket- and at the same time, put it in a better orbit (for observational purposes).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why can&#8217;t you relaunch on a normal rocket- and at the same time, put it in a better orbit (for observational purposes).</p>
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