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	<title>Comments on: An Update on Hubble</title>
	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/10/10/an-update-on-hubble/</link>
	<description>Random samplings from a universe of ideas.</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jul 2009 08:29:12 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: dio</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/10/10/an-update-on-hubble/#comment-44474</link>
		<dc:creator>dio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2008 14:34:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/10/10/an-update-on-hubble/#comment-44474</guid>
		<description>With all due respect, the James Webb Space Telescope is rather a successor of the Spitzer Space Telescope than to the Hubble: solely the IR wavelengths, and with no possibility of a servicing mission (except of minor repair work via the docking ring).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With all due respect, the James Webb Space Telescope is rather a successor of the Spitzer Space Telescope than to the Hubble: solely the IR wavelengths, and with no possibility of a servicing mission (except of minor repair work via the docking ring).</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/10/10/an-update-on-hubble/#comment-44473</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2008 12:46:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/10/10/an-update-on-hubble/#comment-44473</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Ben. So the backup Hubble will eventually end up in the Smithsonian, I guess. That's certainly fitting, but I'd rather have it in orbit, collecting data.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Ben. So the backup Hubble will eventually end up in the Smithsonian, I guess. That&#8217;s certainly fitting, but I&#8217;d rather have it in orbit, collecting data.</p>
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		<title>By: Lab Lemming</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/10/10/an-update-on-hubble/#comment-44471</link>
		<dc:creator>Lab Lemming</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2008 04:53:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/10/10/an-update-on-hubble/#comment-44471</guid>
		<description>Dude, they can weigh exoplanets with Astrometry.  That's awesome.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dude, they can weigh exoplanets with Astrometry.  That&#8217;s awesome.</p>
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		<title>By: Again, the Universe makes me go &#8220;wow!&#8221; &#171; Peculiar Velocity</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/10/10/an-update-on-hubble/#comment-44470</link>
		<dc:creator>Again, the Universe makes me go &#8220;wow!&#8221; &#171; Peculiar Velocity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2008 02:50:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/10/10/an-update-on-hubble/#comment-44470</guid>
		<description>[...] come down with a bad case of broken electronics. In the meantime, they&#8217;ve still been able to do useful science by obtaining ever-more accurate positions of [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] come down with a bad case of broken electronics. In the meantime, they&#8217;ve still been able to do useful science by obtaining ever-more accurate positions of [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/10/10/an-update-on-hubble/#comment-44461</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 16:54:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/10/10/an-update-on-hubble/#comment-44461</guid>
		<description>John, there are a host of reasons why not to do that: the larger successor to Hubble is under construction; the original Hubble was designed in the 1980s and is full of "vintage" electronics; Hubble was designed to be serviced by the space shuttle, which is soon to stop flying; and so on.

Let me amend the S/N calculation I gave for seeing-limited vs. diffraction-limited telescopes above (it was late).  For a seeing-limited telescope of diameter D, the signal from a point source goes as D^2, and the sky background flux in an aperture also goes as D^2, Poisson noise is sqrt(N), and so the S/N improves as D^1.  For a diffraction-limited telescope, the signal from a point source goes as D^2, the image diameter goes as 1/D and so the aperture area goes as 1/D^2 and the sky background flux in the aperture is constant, so the S/N improves as D^2.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John, there are a host of reasons why not to do that: the larger successor to Hubble is under construction; the original Hubble was designed in the 1980s and is full of &#8220;vintage&#8221; electronics; Hubble was designed to be serviced by the space shuttle, which is soon to stop flying; and so on.</p>
<p>Let me amend the S/N calculation I gave for seeing-limited vs. diffraction-limited telescopes above (it was late).  For a seeing-limited telescope of diameter D, the signal from a point source goes as D^2, and the sky background flux in an aperture also goes as D^2, Poisson noise is sqrt(N), and so the S/N improves as D^1.  For a diffraction-limited telescope, the signal from a point source goes as D^2, the image diameter goes as 1/D and so the aperture area goes as 1/D^2 and the sky background flux in the aperture is constant, so the S/N improves as D^2.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/10/10/an-update-on-hubble/#comment-44469</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 12:57:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/10/10/an-update-on-hubble/#comment-44469</guid>
		<description>I admit to knowing very little about the logistics, costs, and bureaucratic processes involved, but if we have a spare Hubble in cold storage, why not send it up, now that the first one is winding down?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I admit to knowing very little about the logistics, costs, and bureaucratic processes involved, but if we have a spare Hubble in cold storage, why not send it up, now that the first one is winding down?</p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/10/10/an-update-on-hubble/#comment-44468</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 07:40:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/10/10/an-update-on-hubble/#comment-44468</guid>
		<description>HST's follow-on, the larger James Webb Space Telescope, is already well under construction.  The lead time on these projects is enormous.

For deep imaging from space, if everything else is equal, large telescopes tend to win over small because of the improvement from diffraction-limited imaging.  Comparing ground-based telescopes of diameter D with equal atmospheric seeing, the signal collected in a given exposure time goes as D^2, while the cost of construction goes as some power of D (2.5 or so).  But for space-based telescopes, the diameter of a diffraction limited image goes as 1/D.  This means that the solid angle occupied by a point source goes as 1/D^2.  The smaller size of a point source means there is less sky flux under it.  For deep observations longward of about 500 nm (depending on the detector, etc), observations are limited by Poisson noise in the background from the zodiacal light, so for diffraction limited imaging the S/N can go as D^3 rather than D^2.  (But you need to spend a lot on a big detector to get a decent field of view because the pixels are smaller.  Detectors often drive the size and cost of instruments for telescopes, more than the optics do.)

Of course, everything else is not equal, the cost of putting large things in space doesn't necessarily go as D^2.5 (it's probably steeper) and smaller projects can come to fruition faster, take advantage of advances in detector technology, are better suited to mapping large areas of sky, and so on.  So there is a place for both small and large satellite observatory projects.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>HST&#8217;s follow-on, the larger James Webb Space Telescope, is already well under construction.  The lead time on these projects is enormous.</p>
<p>For deep imaging from space, if everything else is equal, large telescopes tend to win over small because of the improvement from diffraction-limited imaging.  Comparing ground-based telescopes of diameter D with equal atmospheric seeing, the signal collected in a given exposure time goes as D^2, while the cost of construction goes as some power of D (2.5 or so).  But for space-based telescopes, the diameter of a diffraction limited image goes as 1/D.  This means that the solid angle occupied by a point source goes as 1/D^2.  The smaller size of a point source means there is less sky flux under it.  For deep observations longward of about 500 nm (depending on the detector, etc), observations are limited by Poisson noise in the background from the zodiacal light, so for diffraction limited imaging the S/N can go as D^3 rather than D^2.  (But you need to spend a lot on a big detector to get a decent field of view because the pixels are smaller.  Detectors often drive the size and cost of instruments for telescopes, more than the optics do.)</p>
<p>Of course, everything else is not equal, the cost of putting large things in space doesn&#8217;t necessarily go as D^2.5 (it&#8217;s probably steeper) and smaller projects can come to fruition faster, take advantage of advances in detector technology, are better suited to mapping large areas of sky, and so on.  So there is a place for both small and large satellite observatory projects.</p>
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		<title>By: Lawrence B. Crowell</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/10/10/an-update-on-hubble/#comment-44472</link>
		<dc:creator>Lawrence B. Crowell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 17:34:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/10/10/an-update-on-hubble/#comment-44472</guid>
		<description>A system of small telescopes in consort is the basis for the optical interferometer.  For radio telescopes this is fairly easily arranged since the radio signal from each dish is sent into a wave guide and the EM waves from each dish then interfers with each other.  Lots of nice Maxwell equation E.E. stuff makes it work as one huge radio telescope.  With optics things are more difficult.  An array of optical telescopes is a sort of optical beam splitter.  The quantum interference of photons from each scope could construct the equivalent image of a large scope.  An optical interferometer puts the output of each scope into an optical fiber, while preserving the phases of the photons, and the wave interference of the photons from the array of fibers is used to construct the equivalent large image.  In principle it is the same as with the radio interferometer, but is more difficult to make work.

Lawrence B. Crowell</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A system of small telescopes in consort is the basis for the optical interferometer.  For radio telescopes this is fairly easily arranged since the radio signal from each dish is sent into a wave guide and the EM waves from each dish then interfers with each other.  Lots of nice Maxwell equation E.E. stuff makes it work as one huge radio telescope.  With optics things are more difficult.  An array of optical telescopes is a sort of optical beam splitter.  The quantum interference of photons from each scope could construct the equivalent image of a large scope.  An optical interferometer puts the output of each scope into an optical fiber, while preserving the phases of the photons, and the wave interference of the photons from the array of fibers is used to construct the equivalent large image.  In principle it is the same as with the radio interferometer, but is more difficult to make work.</p>
<p>Lawrence B. Crowell</p>
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		<title>By: Julianne</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/10/10/an-update-on-hubble/#comment-44467</link>
		<dc:creator>Julianne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 15:58:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/10/10/an-update-on-hubble/#comment-44467</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;has any thought been given to having several smaller telescopes working in concert, a brace of Hubblets if you like?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I've actually looked into putting together a proposal for something like this, and the problem is that you can't really get a pointing system as good as Hubble's on a low-cost satellite bus.  You'd still get good UV sensitivity, so the UV folks have been considering small satellites in the latest round of SMEX proposals.  But, you can't get the same level of spatial resolution, which is the science I'm most interested in at the moment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>has any thought been given to having several smaller telescopes working in concert, a brace of Hubblets if you like?</p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;ve actually looked into putting together a proposal for something like this, and the problem is that you can&#8217;t really get a pointing system as good as Hubble&#8217;s on a low-cost satellite bus.  You&#8217;d still get good UV sensitivity, so the UV folks have been considering small satellites in the latest round of SMEX proposals.  But, you can&#8217;t get the same level of spatial resolution, which is the science I&#8217;m most interested in at the moment.</p>
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		<title>By: Invader Xan</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/10/10/an-update-on-hubble/#comment-44466</link>
		<dc:creator>Invader Xan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 15:46:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/10/10/an-update-on-hubble/#comment-44466</guid>
		<description>Wait... There's a replica HST in cold storage? Wow. Now that's how to do redundancy!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wait&#8230; There&#8217;s a replica HST in cold storage? Wow. Now that&#8217;s how to do redundancy!</p>
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