unfortunately, then the rest of hte thread happened

If Obama gets in ? Dang maybe she`s right .

Fundamentalism is based on certain erroneous assumptions about the Bible and the world…
a) Every word is directed to the 21st century Western Christian reader
b) Every verse in Genesis is a literal scientific observation (but don’t worry about imagery such as Ezekiel, Joel, Daniel, Revelation)
c) The 21st century Western Christian lay reader is able to interpret the Bible infallibly by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit
d) There’s a lot to be afraid of in the big bad non Christian world, just keep buying Joel Osteen books and you’ll be OK
e) Fill your soul with junk from the Christian subculture… don’t question anything or be TOO honest

Perhaps in the coming decades people will discard their idiotic religious trappings altogether. I hope that the church evolves away from its monolithic soul-crushing religion, into a more homespun, humble, genuine, engaged, and spiritual faith.

Atheism suggests that the best morals are those which usefully uphold the values dear to one’s self.

And this is why atheism will never be dominant. There will always be humans who believe that some values are, or should be, universal – even at the expense of themselves.

I think, though, that we’re on the cusp of an enormous social revolution, one in which atheism is the trait that social pressures will select for. Monotheism posits some universal observer who knows all things. In atheism, there is a much bigger incentive to see things for ourselves, because there is nobody else to see them if we don’t. Monotheism posits a downward projection of morality, determined arbitrarily before humanity began. Atheism suggests that the best morals are those which usefully uphold the values dear to one’s self.

As a social trait, atheism is infinitely more curious and flexible than monotheism.

The FACT is the vast majority of people on this planet believe in spirituality and God. That is all I am saying.

In fact I think the vast majority of people on this planet believe that the earth is at the center of the universe, and a large portion believe that the positioning of heavenly bodies directly impacts their lives. Unfortunately the universe is not amenable to majority rule. Though somewhere in the multiverse you might be able to find and environment where the laws of nature change based on popular demand!

The Lord is my shephard;
I shall not want.
He make my ballot name shine forth
He leads me besides electronic bliss.
He restores my campaign,
He leads me in the paths of
electoral victory
for His name sake

Yea, though I walk through the valley
of the shadow of Democrats
I will fear no Obama,
for Diebold is with me.
Your vote switching black boxes,
they comfort me.

We are getting lots of strange stuff about white voter’s last minute reluctance and the like. This stuff about God’s intervention is maybe meant to placate true believers enough so they ignore the blatant election fraud, and FOXNEWS will obviously focus in on voter reluctance. The rest of us will be told to shut up, a’la O’Reilly.

Lawrence B. Crowell

I can only hope that PBS returns to her home on election night so we can all watch as she realizes that, oops, the Lord let her down – and that, despite her objections, we do indeed have a “President O-ba-ma.”

I think your key mistake about atheists (and I am one) is captured in your comment:

“There are many laws to which you abide, foremost that there is not and cannot be a god.”

The “cannot” belongs to religion, not atheism. Atheists (as far we can be regarded as group – I personally don’t go any meetings or ceremonies…) do not have any “faith” in the non-existance of god, instead we just make up our minds as best we can using the available evidence and the tools of reasoning that seem to have worked over the years.

There could well still be be a god, but he/she/it would have a lot to answer for (especially if Palin gets elected..)

you forgot “Country Music”…. A unique American cultural contribution to be sure.

e.

I’ll grant you blues, jazz and rock’n'roll….but America gave the world science ?

I didn’t know that Newton, Galileo, Einstein, Darwin, etc etc were all American.

I’ll accept that America probably has many of the brightest brains in the world but I think many of them moved to the states from elsewhere so in this sense America didn’t give them, it took them.

You’re even on thin ice with hamburgers which are named after Hamburg, a place in Germany.

TZ, thank you very much. This is exactly my point:
EU = secularized
U.S. secularized

“God’s intervention – Thus the result of election day is in fact already determined. Whether or not it is in the Republicans’ favour is not important.”

This kind of mumbo-jumbo scares me, and makes me feel sad. Why vote at all? Why not start the United States of Christian Dictatorship right away?

Some try to tell me what I’m proud for and not, with the conclusion that I love EU and hate U.S.

It’s wrong. I love America (except right-wing Christians). America gave the world blues, jazz, rock ‘n’ roll, soul music, hamburgers, moon trips, space programs, new technology, science, the brightest brains in the world and everything that is modern.

That’s why I’m worried that America will make a disastrous mistake mccain, sorry *again*, after eight years with GWB.

It’s time to stop the American path toward medieval mumbo-jumbo before it’s too late.

-fanatic atheism
Its already been said but it bears repetition. Fundamentalism is dogmatic insistence on core tenets of a belief system. For a Christian this boils down to the truth of the bible, for an atheist it’s not that different. There are many laws to which you abide, foremost that there is not and cannot be a god.

Methalos, you’re missing the point. Sure, there are a few extremely outspoken atheists who are convinced they can prove there is no god, but that number is vanishingly small, especially compare to the number of outspoken Christians who believe they can prove there is a God (there are whole denominations of them in America).

But just look at these “core tenets” you mention. On the Christian side, you have a supernatural being (God), whom you worship, you have holy scripture (the Bible) that contains hundreds of laws and commandments on how to conduct all aspects of your daily lives, and you have dozens of creeds, statements of faith, all of which unite large groups of people into organized sects and denominations.

On the atheist side? Well, it’s a given that atheists don’t believe there is a God, and I suppose it follows that we believe that you should look elsewhere for guidance on how to live our lives. But that’s all there is. There are not “many laws” by which we abide (unless you mean the law of the state, but we all abide by those, including all religious people, unless you want to risk arrest and punishment).

You say for a Christian boils down to the “truth in the Bible” and that for atheists it’s not that different. But apart from agreeing that we don’t believe there is a God, what is the equivalent for atheists? There is nothing in atheism that demands proof of no God, nor that we should convert people to non-belief. There are no atheist laws or commandments to follow, no prescribed political agenda, nobody telling us how we’re supposed to live our lives. Sure there are books written by atheists who have their own opinions on such things, but to equate that with the creeds of Christianity is to sorely miss the point.

You said –

“God’s intervention”
From a Christian perspective this is almost an oxymoron. God is omnipotent and the whole construction of the world; all events and the entirety of history are fore-ordained. Thus the result of election day is in fact already determined.

You have taken a biblical truth regarding God’s Kingdom and “assumed” to know exactly how God’s dealings with global matters works.

Tell me, is it possible that God seeing all things in the timeline of humanity saw the American 2008 election and determined to NOT do anything regarding it ??

The fact is “Christians” would do well to learn from Job and not attempt to explain God, nor His reasons and methods of dealing with mankind’s lives.

No one can say with certainty that God has acted in any way for or on behalf of, this upcoming election, to say He has is to assume to know what God did NOT reveal in His revelation.

You thoughts are a prime example of “String Theology”.