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	<title>Comments on: Dark Photons</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/10/29/dark-photons/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/10/29/dark-photons/</link>
	<description>Random samplings from a universe of ideas.</description>
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		<title>By: Dark Atoms &#124; Cosmic Variance &#124; Discover Magazine</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/10/29/dark-photons/comment-page-1/#comment-94682</link>
		<dc:creator>Dark Atoms &#124; Cosmic Variance &#124; Discover Magazine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Sep 2009 17:04:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/10/29/dark-photons/#comment-94682</guid>
		<description>[...] a year ago we talked about dark photons &#8212; the idea that there was a new force, almost exactly like ordinary electromagnetism, except [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] a year ago we talked about dark photons &#8212; the idea that there was a new force, almost exactly like ordinary electromagnetism, except [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ray Gedaly</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/10/29/dark-photons/comment-page-1/#comment-92445</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray Gedaly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Aug 2009 18:39:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/10/29/dark-photons/#comment-92445</guid>
		<description>Brane Matter ... Could dark matter be evidence for parallel branes?  Matter in our brane and other(s) would only interact via the gravitational force.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brane Matter &#8230; Could dark matter be evidence for parallel branes?  Matter in our brane and other(s) would only interact via the gravitational force.</p>
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		<title>By: Hoseki</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/10/29/dark-photons/comment-page-1/#comment-48044</link>
		<dc:creator>Hoseki</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 04:11:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/10/29/dark-photons/#comment-48044</guid>
		<description>Sean, I&#039;m trying to understand what you said: &quot;Yes, I forgot to mention: our DM candidate is certainly not some superpartner of any of the particles in the Standard Model, since we don’t want any of them to carry dark charge.&quot;

Did you not argue in your paper that the DM candidate could be a WIMP (which is a linear combination of super partners)? Furthermore, it is stated in your paper that the particles have a dark U(1) charge (but there is overall charge neutrality). Puzzled...

By the way the link to Jay Alfred&#039;s article should be:

http://ezinearticles.com/?Dark-Matter—Plasma-of-Super-Particles&amp;id=1240357

(without the full-stop at the end ... hope it works this time)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sean, I&#8217;m trying to understand what you said: &#8220;Yes, I forgot to mention: our DM candidate is certainly not some superpartner of any of the particles in the Standard Model, since we don’t want any of them to carry dark charge.&#8221;</p>
<p>Did you not argue in your paper that the DM candidate could be a WIMP (which is a linear combination of super partners)? Furthermore, it is stated in your paper that the particles have a dark U(1) charge (but there is overall charge neutrality). Puzzled&#8230;</p>
<p>By the way the link to Jay Alfred&#8217;s article should be:</p>
<p><a href="http://ezinearticles.com/?Dark-Matter—Plasma-of-Super-Particles&#038;id=1240357" rel="nofollow">http://ezinearticles.com/?Dark-Matter—Plasma-of-Super-Particles&#038;id=1240357</a></p>
<p>(without the full-stop at the end &#8230; hope it works this time)</p>
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		<title>By: Hoseki</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/10/29/dark-photons/comment-page-1/#comment-48037</link>
		<dc:creator>Hoseki</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 03:34:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/10/29/dark-photons/#comment-48037</guid>
		<description>This guy, Jay Alfred, has written a lot about “dark plasma” since 2006 in his books. He argues in his article “Dark Matter – Plasma of Super Particles” (June 2008) that “…dark matter consists of non-standard (or super) plasma which radiates energetic waves. These postulated &quot;super&quot; waves or &quot;S-Waves&quot; are currently not directly measurable by our scientific instruments.” See http://ezinearticles.com/?Dark-Matter---Plasma-of-Super-Particles&amp;id=1240357.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This guy, Jay Alfred, has written a lot about “dark plasma” since 2006 in his books. He argues in his article “Dark Matter – Plasma of Super Particles” (June 2008) that “…dark matter consists of non-standard (or super) plasma which radiates energetic waves. These postulated &#8220;super&#8221; waves or &#8220;S-Waves&#8221; are currently not directly measurable by our scientific instruments.” See <a href="http://ezinearticles.com/?Dark-Matter---Plasma-of-Super-Particles&#038;id=1240357" rel="nofollow">http://ezinearticles.com/?Dark-Matter&#8212;Plasma-of-Super-Particles&#038;id=1240357</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Dick</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/10/29/dark-photons/comment-page-1/#comment-46933</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Dick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 13:04:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/10/29/dark-photons/#comment-46933</guid>
		<description>Neil B,

Interesting.  Guess that shows that I haven&#039;t been following axions very closely.

Robert Bast,

Anti-light is a really bad name.  It can only cause confusion as it evokes anti-matter, which is a completely different phenomenon.  In fact, there is an anti-particle to the photon: it&#039;s called the photon (so yes, this means that just as an electron and a positron can annihilate with one another to produce all sorts of things, a photon can annihilate with another photon, if the pair have enough energy between them to produce anything).

I honestly don&#039;t see how the speed of dark photons could be any different from normal photons unless they have some mass, which would cause the force to be short range, which would be something other than what Sean is proposing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Neil B,</p>
<p>Interesting.  Guess that shows that I haven&#8217;t been following axions very closely.</p>
<p>Robert Bast,</p>
<p>Anti-light is a really bad name.  It can only cause confusion as it evokes anti-matter, which is a completely different phenomenon.  In fact, there is an anti-particle to the photon: it&#8217;s called the photon (so yes, this means that just as an electron and a positron can annihilate with one another to produce all sorts of things, a photon can annihilate with another photon, if the pair have enough energy between them to produce anything).</p>
<p>I honestly don&#8217;t see how the speed of dark photons could be any different from normal photons unless they have some mass, which would cause the force to be short range, which would be something other than what Sean is proposing.</p>
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		<title>By: Lawrence Crowell</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/10/29/dark-photons/comment-page-1/#comment-46760</link>
		<dc:creator>Lawrence Crowell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 13:25:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/10/29/dark-photons/#comment-46760</guid>
		<description>Negative energy is of course unlikely.  In this case the eigen-numbers or spectrum of quantum field theory is not bounded below.  This has serious pathological consequences.

L. C.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Negative energy is of course unlikely.  In this case the eigen-numbers or spectrum of quantum field theory is not bounded below.  This has serious pathological consequences.</p>
<p>L. C.</p>
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		<title>By: Neil B</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/10/29/dark-photons/comment-page-1/#comment-46637</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Nov 2008 17:06:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/10/29/dark-photons/#comment-46637</guid>
		<description>Robert, if anti-light traveled at 10c as you suggest, it would make causality troubles in our universe if it could ever be detected (read about special theory of relativity.)  However, such alternate photons might go slower than our light.

Also, &quot;dark photons&quot; as imagined by Sean and others are not like negative energy that can cancel out ordinary light or energy, they are &quot;dark&quot; because we can&#039;t see them (i.e., they don&#039;t interact with ordinary matter-energy enough.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robert, if anti-light traveled at 10c as you suggest, it would make causality troubles in our universe if it could ever be detected (read about special theory of relativity.)  However, such alternate photons might go slower than our light.</p>
<p>Also, &#8220;dark photons&#8221; as imagined by Sean and others are not like negative energy that can cancel out ordinary light or energy, they are &#8220;dark&#8221; because we can&#8217;t see them (i.e., they don&#8217;t interact with ordinary matter-energy enough.)</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Bast</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/10/29/dark-photons/comment-page-1/#comment-46601</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Bast</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Nov 2008 11:55:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/10/29/dark-photons/#comment-46601</guid>
		<description>A discussion on this topic, although I named it &quot;anti-light&quot;, is at my forum:
http://2012forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&amp;t=4739

Something you may want to consider is how fast a dark photon travels....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A discussion on this topic, although I named it &#8220;anti-light&#8221;, is at my forum:<br />
<a href="http://2012forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&#038;t=4739" rel="nofollow">http://2012forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&#038;t=4739</a></p>
<p>Something you may want to consider is how fast a dark photon travels&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Neil B</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/10/29/dark-photons/comment-page-1/#comment-46548</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Nov 2008 02:22:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/10/29/dark-photons/#comment-46548</guid>
		<description>(I hope this is OK to do, I got this &quot;lost&quot; comment from Sean using my browser cache of the old CV site):

Sean  on Nov 10th, 2008 at 12:32 pm

&lt;i&gt;Actually, axions are (usually) very much cold dark matter, not warm. It’s true that their masses are small — small enough to make them hot dark matter, if they were produced in thermal equilibrium. But they’re not; they come into existence at zero momentum as part of a Bose condensate. The energy per axion is enormously smaller than the energy per CMB photon.&lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(I hope this is OK to do, I got this &#8220;lost&#8221; comment from Sean using my browser cache of the old CV site):</p>
<p>Sean  on Nov 10th, 2008 at 12:32 pm</p>
<p><i>Actually, axions are (usually) very much cold dark matter, not warm. It’s true that their masses are small — small enough to make them hot dark matter, if they were produced in thermal equilibrium. But they’re not; they come into existence at zero momentum as part of a Bose condensate. The energy per axion is enormously smaller than the energy per CMB photon.</i></p>
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		<title>By: Jason Dick</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/10/29/dark-photons/comment-page-1/#comment-45195</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Dick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Nov 2008 15:53:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/10/29/dark-photons/#comment-45195</guid>
		<description>Neil,

Well, structure formation arguments basically rule out MACHO&#039;s, as we see the evidence of dark matter even within the CMB, which was long before any compact objects had a chance to form.  The Bullet Cluster does not, because MACHO&#039;s are just as non-interacting as the stars and galaxies: they&#039;re few and far between, so they mostly just miss one another in a collision like that.

The difficulty with axions is that they have very low mass, which makes them a candidate for &quot;warm&quot; dark matter, which seems to not fit well with our current observations of structure formation.  But, more observations are necessary to really say this with confidence, and perhaps the 21cm and cosmic shear observations will weigh in here to say something definitive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Neil,</p>
<p>Well, structure formation arguments basically rule out MACHO&#8217;s, as we see the evidence of dark matter even within the CMB, which was long before any compact objects had a chance to form.  The Bullet Cluster does not, because MACHO&#8217;s are just as non-interacting as the stars and galaxies: they&#8217;re few and far between, so they mostly just miss one another in a collision like that.</p>
<p>The difficulty with axions is that they have very low mass, which makes them a candidate for &#8220;warm&#8221; dark matter, which seems to not fit well with our current observations of structure formation.  But, more observations are necessary to really say this with confidence, and perhaps the 21cm and cosmic shear observations will weigh in here to say something definitive.</p>
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		<title>By: Neil B  ?</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/10/29/dark-photons/comment-page-1/#comment-45198</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil B  ?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 03:37:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/10/29/dark-photons/#comment-45198</guid>
		<description>Update: The Afanasev talk slides are found at
http://www.jlab.org/~afanas/LIPSS/afanasev-JLAB08.ppt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Update: The Afanasev talk slides are found at<br />
<a href="http://www.jlab.org/~afanas/LIPSS/afanasev-JLAB08.ppt" rel="nofollow">http://www.jlab.org/~afanas/LIPSS/afanasev-JLAB08.ppt</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Neil B  ?</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/10/29/dark-photons/comment-page-1/#comment-45197</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil B  ?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 02:42:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/10/29/dark-photons/#comment-45197</guid>
		<description>I went to an interesting lecture at J-Lab today by Andrei Afanasev.

http://www1.jlab.org/ul/calendar/calendar_date.cfm?date=7&amp;month=11&amp;year=2008

&quot;Search for Dark-Matter Particles in Photon-Photon Interaction at Optical Frequencies&quot;

He went over the basics of DM, including evidence from the Bullet Cluster (since approaching clumps of DM blew past each other and their &lt;i&gt;formerly&lt;/i&gt; associated clumps of matter, I guess that close to rules out regular matter (RM) bases of DM such as MACHOs?)  Andrei considers axions (of some sort) to be a good choice of what DM consists of, curiously not mentioned here.  He discussed the LIPSS experiment, interesting to me as offbeat physics but also since I know and got to brainstorm with one of the main experimenters (K Beard.)  I had already heard how hard it was to do right.  Briefly: Take advantage of photon-photon coupling to produce some axions A or other DM particle by shining powerful laser through magnetic field.  Stop conventional photons with a wall, and convert A back into photons with magnetic field on other side.  It would be a tiny effect, much noise from cosmic rays, and the experiment turned out negative.  That doesn&#039;t mean &quot;no DM can be produced from photon-photon reactions&quot; but the mass must be even less (&quot;milli-eV&quot;)

Another idea was directly relevant to &quot;dark photons&quot;, and that was the creation through the same means of what Andrei and some others call &quot;paraphotons&quot; which is presumably the same sort of idea.  I told Andrei that should mean an equivalent para-charge analogy for the DM particles, which seemed odd to me and would maybe have prevented DM in the Bullet collision from cross-passing like that - he said, it weakly couples even to itself.  He appreciates that we wouldn&#039;t just have &quot;four forces&quot; in the universe any more.

I forgot to bring up, that paracharged particles seem to imply an analogous &quot;anti-dark matter&quot; regime, and then the same question as for RM of why it didn&#039;t all mutually disintegrate etc.  (Also, they would be stable, not with 10^10 s half-life decay even into paraphotons, since paracharge presumably is conserved.  BTW axions are thought to decay into ordinary photons.)  There are other odd issues, like what role to virtual paraphotons play in the scheme of things?  Maybe if virtual photons give the wrong vacuum energy level for DE, then VPPs do it right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I went to an interesting lecture at J-Lab today by Andrei Afanasev.</p>
<p><a href="http://www1.jlab.org/ul/calendar/calendar_date.cfm?date=7&#038;month=11&#038;year=2008" rel="nofollow">http://www1.jlab.org/ul/calendar/calendar_date.cfm?date=7&#038;month=11&#038;year=2008</a></p>
<p>&#8220;Search for Dark-Matter Particles in Photon-Photon Interaction at Optical Frequencies&#8221;</p>
<p>He went over the basics of DM, including evidence from the Bullet Cluster (since approaching clumps of DM blew past each other and their <i>formerly</i> associated clumps of matter, I guess that close to rules out regular matter (RM) bases of DM such as MACHOs?)  Andrei considers axions (of some sort) to be a good choice of what DM consists of, curiously not mentioned here.  He discussed the LIPSS experiment, interesting to me as offbeat physics but also since I know and got to brainstorm with one of the main experimenters (K Beard.)  I had already heard how hard it was to do right.  Briefly: Take advantage of photon-photon coupling to produce some axions A or other DM particle by shining powerful laser through magnetic field.  Stop conventional photons with a wall, and convert A back into photons with magnetic field on other side.  It would be a tiny effect, much noise from cosmic rays, and the experiment turned out negative.  That doesn&#8217;t mean &#8220;no DM can be produced from photon-photon reactions&#8221; but the mass must be even less (&#8220;milli-eV&#8221;)</p>
<p>Another idea was directly relevant to &#8220;dark photons&#8221;, and that was the creation through the same means of what Andrei and some others call &#8220;paraphotons&#8221; which is presumably the same sort of idea.  I told Andrei that should mean an equivalent para-charge analogy for the DM particles, which seemed odd to me and would maybe have prevented DM in the Bullet collision from cross-passing like that &#8211; he said, it weakly couples even to itself.  He appreciates that we wouldn&#8217;t just have &#8220;four forces&#8221; in the universe any more.</p>
<p>I forgot to bring up, that paracharged particles seem to imply an analogous &#8220;anti-dark matter&#8221; regime, and then the same question as for RM of why it didn&#8217;t all mutually disintegrate etc.  (Also, they would be stable, not with 10^10 s half-life decay even into paraphotons, since paracharge presumably is conserved.  BTW axions are thought to decay into ordinary photons.)  There are other odd issues, like what role to virtual paraphotons play in the scheme of things?  Maybe if virtual photons give the wrong vacuum energy level for DE, then VPPs do it right?</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Murray</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/10/29/dark-photons/comment-page-1/#comment-45202</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Murray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Nov 2008 23:36:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/10/29/dark-photons/#comment-45202</guid>
		<description>&quot; Imagine there is a space with only one charge on it. Suppose the space is a sphere. Then in a classical picture the lines of force leave all these charges and have &quot;nowhere to go.&quot; &quot;

Why is this not true of gravity?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8221; Imagine there is a space with only one charge on it. Suppose the space is a sphere. Then in a classical picture the lines of force leave all these charges and have &#8220;nowhere to go.&#8221; &#8221;</p>
<p>Why is this not true of gravity?</p>
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		<title>By: MedallionOfFerret</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/10/29/dark-photons/comment-page-1/#comment-45201</link>
		<dc:creator>MedallionOfFerret</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Nov 2008 17:47:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/10/29/dark-photons/#comment-45201</guid>
		<description>Since bridge sales are down a bit this month and bills are mounting up, would anyone be interested in purchasing one of several small dark worlds I happen to have on hand?  Would be a great place to experiment with dark chemistry and dark biology.  Be the first in your department to have one!  String theorists are welcome--we speak branes fluctuationently. Wholesale prices, retail quality!  (Shipping &amp; handling extra)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since bridge sales are down a bit this month and bills are mounting up, would anyone be interested in purchasing one of several small dark worlds I happen to have on hand?  Would be a great place to experiment with dark chemistry and dark biology.  Be the first in your department to have one!  String theorists are welcome&#8211;we speak branes fluctuationently. Wholesale prices, retail quality!  (Shipping &amp; handling extra)</p>
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		<title>By: S Halayka</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/10/29/dark-photons/comment-page-1/#comment-45196</link>
		<dc:creator>S Halayka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Nov 2008 02:52:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/10/29/dark-photons/#comment-45196</guid>
		<description>Hi Sean,

From what I understand, Matti Pitkanen&#039;s work also directly discusses the possibilities of dark photons, dark chemistry, and dark biology.

A brief Letter to the Editor, Foundations of Physics is at: http://cavekitty.ca/db_origin.pdf

I&#039;m hoping that they&#039;ll publish it, since these are all very good ideas. I&#039;d just hate to see Pitkanen&#039;s hard work go unnoticed, etc, etc, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Sean,</p>
<p>From what I understand, Matti Pitkanen&#8217;s work also directly discusses the possibilities of dark photons, dark chemistry, and dark biology.</p>
<p>A brief Letter to the Editor, Foundations of Physics is at: <a href="http://cavekitty.ca/db_origin.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://cavekitty.ca/db_origin.pdf</a></p>
<p>I&#8217;m hoping that they&#8217;ll publish it, since these are all very good ideas. I&#8217;d just hate to see Pitkanen&#8217;s hard work go unnoticed, etc, etc, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Lawrence B. Crowell</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/10/29/dark-photons/comment-page-1/#comment-45200</link>
		<dc:creator>Lawrence B. Crowell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 23:51:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/10/29/dark-photons/#comment-45200</guid>
		<description>The rational for DM as very weakly interacting with itself is that DM regions don&#039;t exhibt much clumpiness.  As far as I know the relative paucity of clumps is seen in the absence of localized Einstein lensing in DM regions.

Lawrence B. Crowell</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The rational for DM as very weakly interacting with itself is that DM regions don&#8217;t exhibt much clumpiness.  As far as I know the relative paucity of clumps is seen in the absence of localized Einstein lensing in DM regions.</p>
<p>Lawrence B. Crowell</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Dick</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/10/29/dark-photons/comment-page-1/#comment-45199</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Dick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 18:56:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/10/29/dark-photons/#comment-45199</guid>
		<description>The individual masses of the particles might not necessarily have to be that high, but they&#039;d have to be quite clumpy, and I think that&#039;s pretty much ruled out by our observation that dark matter tends to be vastly less clumpy than normal matter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The individual masses of the particles might not necessarily have to be that high, but they&#8217;d have to be quite clumpy, and I think that&#8217;s pretty much ruled out by our observation that dark matter tends to be vastly less clumpy than normal matter.</p>
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		<title>By: Lawrence B. Crowell</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/10/29/dark-photons/comment-page-1/#comment-45243</link>
		<dc:creator>Lawrence B. Crowell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2008 12:39:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/10/29/dark-photons/#comment-45243</guid>
		<description>Ok, got you.  I think this suggests that the Pioneer anomaly may not likely be due to DM.  That is unless DM particles are very hefty, or much more abundant that one particle per &quot;coffee cup.&quot;  We&#039;d also have to sum this up over intergalactic volumes to see if this can reproduce the gravitational effects attributed to DM.

Lawrence B. Crowell</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok, got you.  I think this suggests that the Pioneer anomaly may not likely be due to DM.  That is unless DM particles are very hefty, or much more abundant that one particle per &#8220;coffee cup.&#8221;  We&#8217;d also have to sum this up over intergalactic volumes to see if this can reproduce the gravitational effects attributed to DM.</p>
<p>Lawrence B. Crowell</p>
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		<title>By: Benjamin</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/10/29/dark-photons/comment-page-1/#comment-45242</link>
		<dc:creator>Benjamin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2008 09:36:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/10/29/dark-photons/#comment-45242</guid>
		<description>I did a rough calculation of what density would be required to produce the observed acceleration at a distance of 71 AU, which was the only figure I could find data for. It had nothing to do with the particles themselves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I did a rough calculation of what density would be required to produce the observed acceleration at a distance of 71 AU, which was the only figure I could find data for. It had nothing to do with the particles themselves.</p>
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		<title>By: Lawrence B. Crowell</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/10/29/dark-photons/comment-page-1/#comment-45245</link>
		<dc:creator>Lawrence B. Crowell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2008 04:38:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/10/29/dark-photons/#comment-45245</guid>
		<description>Benjamin: I am not sure how you got that figure of 10^{-13}kg/m^3.  That would be 10^{-10}g/m^3 or 10^{-16}g/cm^3.  A proton at m ~ 10^{-27}g means a TeV DM particle is ~ 10^{-26}g, so your DM particles would be very hefty!  I just worked directly with moles, which is easier IMO.

Marshall: I agree that the gravitational effect of DM might be detectable in the solar system, even though it would be small.  It is not clear to me that the Pioneer craft reflect this physics.  That this anomaly is absent from the Voyager craft makes me suspect this is due to a leak or some differential cold gas to solid deposition or sublimation of atoms on the surfaces of the craft.

Lawrence B. Crowell</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Benjamin: I am not sure how you got that figure of 10^{-13}kg/m^3.  That would be 10^{-10}g/m^3 or 10^{-16}g/cm^3.  A proton at m ~ 10^{-27}g means a TeV DM particle is ~ 10^{-26}g, so your DM particles would be very hefty!  I just worked directly with moles, which is easier IMO.</p>
<p>Marshall: I agree that the gravitational effect of DM might be detectable in the solar system, even though it would be small.  It is not clear to me that the Pioneer craft reflect this physics.  That this anomaly is absent from the Voyager craft makes me suspect this is due to a leak or some differential cold gas to solid deposition or sublimation of atoms on the surfaces of the craft.</p>
<p>Lawrence B. Crowell</p>
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