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	<title>Comments on: Pirates</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/12/28/pirates/</link>
	<description>Random samplings from a universe of ideas.</description>
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		<title>By: Winter Solstice Man</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/12/28/pirates/comment-page-1/#comment-56771</link>
		<dc:creator>Winter Solstice Man</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jan 2009 22:01:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/12/28/pirates/#comment-56771</guid>
		<description>If the pirates were white and from Europe, would the world be more forgiving of them?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the pirates were white and from Europe, would the world be more forgiving of them?</p>
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		<title>By: Anti-Radiolaire</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/12/28/pirates/comment-page-1/#comment-56706</link>
		<dc:creator>Anti-Radiolaire</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jan 2009 17:17:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/12/28/pirates/#comment-56706</guid>
		<description>Please, don&#039;t comment anti for the heck of it. You vouch for these pirates and make others look like they are the &#039;thugs&#039; and should feel guilty. 
Piracy like other forms of crime is immoral. No philosophical discussions on this please.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please, don&#8217;t comment anti for the heck of it. You vouch for these pirates and make others look like they are the &#8216;thugs&#8217; and should feel guilty.<br />
Piracy like other forms of crime is immoral. No philosophical discussions on this please.</p>
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		<title>By: Flaming Pope</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/12/28/pirates/comment-page-1/#comment-56110</link>
		<dc:creator>Flaming Pope</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 2008 04:19:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/12/28/pirates/#comment-56110</guid>
		<description>My shot at an effective solution.

- instead of giving pirates a free ride back to shore accomplishing nothing, leave &#039;em floating. You may not have marine jurisdiction over the particular sea area, but that also means you don&#039;t have a absolute saying that you have to give them a lift back to shore. If you see another boat come to pick them up, move your boat into the way and block them by accident.

Pirates are not dumb, you can&#039;t just go sinking ships in international waters. They know the profit of cargo and will calculate their ransom based on a percent margin of the final profit of whatever cargo is on the ship. So sinking these ships will lose a lot more money than just paying them off- sorta like an international mob &quot;for protection.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My shot at an effective solution.</p>
<p>- instead of giving pirates a free ride back to shore accomplishing nothing, leave &#8216;em floating. You may not have marine jurisdiction over the particular sea area, but that also means you don&#8217;t have a absolute saying that you have to give them a lift back to shore. If you see another boat come to pick them up, move your boat into the way and block them by accident.</p>
<p>Pirates are not dumb, you can&#8217;t just go sinking ships in international waters. They know the profit of cargo and will calculate their ransom based on a percent margin of the final profit of whatever cargo is on the ship. So sinking these ships will lose a lot more money than just paying them off- sorta like an international mob &#8220;for protection.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: jick</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/12/28/pirates/comment-page-1/#comment-55903</link>
		<dc:creator>jick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 05:36:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/12/28/pirates/#comment-55903</guid>
		<description>I agree with Sean on that they should be arrested and tried in a court of law.

I mean, ideally.

Blame my lack of imagination, but I cannot think of any way we can arrest (and try in a court) a significant number of Somali pirates, without a lot of rounding up and shooting, and quite possibly exchanging gunfires and missiles and the likes.  I predict that the overall result will be either like 1) summary execution, 2) a demonstration of inefficiency of international forces, or both.

So, the ideal solution is infeasible.  At least until someone first builds a sensible government in Somalia, but now I&#039;m replacing a big problem with even bigger problem, ain&#039;t I?

I think this is why Radiolaire and others urge to think from their viewpoints, not because they are agreeable and pleasant guys, but because there is no other practical solution.  Well, we can say they&#039;re assholes, perhaps they really are, but that doesn&#039;t solve anything.

(Disclaimer: my knowledge of Somali pirates is way lower than most commenters and probably zero, so you can safely ignore whatever I wrote here.  Well, I just had to vent.  Thank you.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Sean on that they should be arrested and tried in a court of law.</p>
<p>I mean, ideally.</p>
<p>Blame my lack of imagination, but I cannot think of any way we can arrest (and try in a court) a significant number of Somali pirates, without a lot of rounding up and shooting, and quite possibly exchanging gunfires and missiles and the likes.  I predict that the overall result will be either like 1) summary execution, 2) a demonstration of inefficiency of international forces, or both.</p>
<p>So, the ideal solution is infeasible.  At least until someone first builds a sensible government in Somalia, but now I&#8217;m replacing a big problem with even bigger problem, ain&#8217;t I?</p>
<p>I think this is why Radiolaire and others urge to think from their viewpoints, not because they are agreeable and pleasant guys, but because there is no other practical solution.  Well, we can say they&#8217;re assholes, perhaps they really are, but that doesn&#8217;t solve anything.</p>
<p>(Disclaimer: my knowledge of Somali pirates is way lower than most commenters and probably zero, so you can safely ignore whatever I wrote here.  Well, I just had to vent.  Thank you.)</p>
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		<title>By: spyder</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/12/28/pirates/comment-page-1/#comment-55822</link>
		<dc:creator>spyder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 20:24:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/12/28/pirates/#comment-55822</guid>
		<description>So China decided to send some of its anti-piracy fleet (cruise missiles and special forces teams) to Somalia to protect Asian shipping.  This is important and interesting for three reasons: China has been involved in fighting massive piracy in its own realms for decades (Indonesian archipelago piracy was claiming more than 100 ships a year a decade ago); China is demonstrating the strength of its new naval power to engage in distant actions; China is claiming that in protecting Asian shipping it is a friend of Japan, Korea, Taiwan, India, et al.  

On the same coin, we find that the US has been particularly incompetent in its own realms fighting piracy.  All along the coasts of Central and South America, pirates have for years been capturing boats, killing the occupants and using the vessels for drug shipments.  Many of these activities have been perpetrated by the right-wing militias bent on fighting for control of resources and wealth.  At best, the US interdicts at a rate of 7% or so.  Not very productive really.  Hell, now these folks have stolen tourist submersibles (and began to make their own) and small naval vessels of other countries.  But really, let us keep our energy focussed on Africa, where people don&#039;t die and corporations are being forced to pay off some of their profits (certainly much more important).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So China decided to send some of its anti-piracy fleet (cruise missiles and special forces teams) to Somalia to protect Asian shipping.  This is important and interesting for three reasons: China has been involved in fighting massive piracy in its own realms for decades (Indonesian archipelago piracy was claiming more than 100 ships a year a decade ago); China is demonstrating the strength of its new naval power to engage in distant actions; China is claiming that in protecting Asian shipping it is a friend of Japan, Korea, Taiwan, India, et al.  </p>
<p>On the same coin, we find that the US has been particularly incompetent in its own realms fighting piracy.  All along the coasts of Central and South America, pirates have for years been capturing boats, killing the occupants and using the vessels for drug shipments.  Many of these activities have been perpetrated by the right-wing militias bent on fighting for control of resources and wealth.  At best, the US interdicts at a rate of 7% or so.  Not very productive really.  Hell, now these folks have stolen tourist submersibles (and began to make their own) and small naval vessels of other countries.  But really, let us keep our energy focussed on Africa, where people don&#8217;t die and corporations are being forced to pay off some of their profits (certainly much more important).</p>
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		<title>By: Amos Kenigsberg (Discover Web Editor)</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/12/28/pirates/comment-page-1/#comment-55810</link>
		<dc:creator>Amos Kenigsberg (Discover Web Editor)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 19:47:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/12/28/pirates/#comment-55810</guid>
		<description>I met a pirate expert (NB: not an expert pirate) at a Christmas party a few days ago, and he had some interesting info on the situation. My favorite bit was about how a ransom handoff goes down: a bunch of ex-British secret service guys arm themselves to the teeth, go out with a pro hostage negotiator, and make the handoff -- or go crazy and blow up everything in sight. 

Now *that* would be a good subject for a reality show.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I met a pirate expert (NB: not an expert pirate) at a Christmas party a few days ago, and he had some interesting info on the situation. My favorite bit was about how a ransom handoff goes down: a bunch of ex-British secret service guys arm themselves to the teeth, go out with a pro hostage negotiator, and make the handoff &#8212; or go crazy and blow up everything in sight. </p>
<p>Now *that* would be a good subject for a reality show.</p>
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		<title>By: Mohamed Farrah Aidid</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/12/28/pirates/comment-page-1/#comment-55802</link>
		<dc:creator>Mohamed Farrah Aidid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 18:59:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/12/28/pirates/#comment-55802</guid>
		<description>Radiolaire,
Thank you for your concern for my pirates; we welcome support for our violation of international law.  Please join me in Somalia as we are in need of a PR rep.  I&#039;m sure you will love it over here, and all of my friends will be very amiable.  We promise not to hold you for ransom because everything wrong in the world is the fault of the United States, just as you say.  I treasure your guilt and hope that your comfortable lifestyle will travel with you to Somalia.  But please, don&#039;t study history and see how Jefferson resolved the issue of the Barbary pirates.

Sincerely,
A friendly Somali warlord</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Radiolaire,<br />
Thank you for your concern for my pirates; we welcome support for our violation of international law.  Please join me in Somalia as we are in need of a PR rep.  I&#8217;m sure you will love it over here, and all of my friends will be very amiable.  We promise not to hold you for ransom because everything wrong in the world is the fault of the United States, just as you say.  I treasure your guilt and hope that your comfortable lifestyle will travel with you to Somalia.  But please, don&#8217;t study history and see how Jefferson resolved the issue of the Barbary pirates.</p>
<p>Sincerely,<br />
A friendly Somali warlord</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Heldenbrand</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/12/28/pirates/comment-page-1/#comment-55782</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Heldenbrand</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 17:13:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/12/28/pirates/#comment-55782</guid>
		<description>Stop comparing pirates to Robin Hood.

Most of the pirates in question live extremely lavish lives, they don&#039;t impart their windfall upon the masses in pursuit of economic equality.  The people in question are selfish and greedy, even worse human beings than the &#039;evil imperialists&#039; in question because the horror is all around them in an immediate vicinity and yet do nothing about it.  

This is easy money for them.  The only reason they have any support as of yet or haven&#039;t been dealt with in far harsher ways is that they haven&#039;t started killing hostages.  Believe me, when people start refusing to pay they will start killing hostages.  Then any glamor of what they&#039;re doing will disappear, military force will become a more pressing concern and so on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stop comparing pirates to Robin Hood.</p>
<p>Most of the pirates in question live extremely lavish lives, they don&#8217;t impart their windfall upon the masses in pursuit of economic equality.  The people in question are selfish and greedy, even worse human beings than the &#8216;evil imperialists&#8217; in question because the horror is all around them in an immediate vicinity and yet do nothing about it.  </p>
<p>This is easy money for them.  The only reason they have any support as of yet or haven&#8217;t been dealt with in far harsher ways is that they haven&#8217;t started killing hostages.  Believe me, when people start refusing to pay they will start killing hostages.  Then any glamor of what they&#8217;re doing will disappear, military force will become a more pressing concern and so on.</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer West</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/12/28/pirates/comment-page-1/#comment-55764</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer West</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 15:40:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/12/28/pirates/#comment-55764</guid>
		<description>I agree with Radiolaire in that if you want actions to stop you must ask why they occur.  It is not enough to say that the first ships shouldn&#039;t have paid money to pirates.  I would give my wallet to a mugger, and I am not the cause of further muggings because of doing so.

It&#039;s not an apology or an excuse for the pirates to ask the question &quot;why&quot;?  It&#039;s a responsibility to do so, if you are concerned about the situation.  I think Sean, while being a darling, is shortsighted to say they are just thugs.  Regardless of what fate he believes they deserve. 

I mean, one either wants this problem to disappear again - pirates off our mental radar - or, one wants the problem to be solved.  If you want it to be solved, you better figure out what the causes are.

I&#039;m grateful for the post and the comments.
All the best,
Jennifer</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Radiolaire in that if you want actions to stop you must ask why they occur.  It is not enough to say that the first ships shouldn&#8217;t have paid money to pirates.  I would give my wallet to a mugger, and I am not the cause of further muggings because of doing so.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not an apology or an excuse for the pirates to ask the question &#8220;why&#8221;?  It&#8217;s a responsibility to do so, if you are concerned about the situation.  I think Sean, while being a darling, is shortsighted to say they are just thugs.  Regardless of what fate he believes they deserve. </p>
<p>I mean, one either wants this problem to disappear again &#8211; pirates off our mental radar &#8211; or, one wants the problem to be solved.  If you want it to be solved, you better figure out what the causes are.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m grateful for the post and the comments.<br />
All the best,<br />
Jennifer</p>
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		<title>By: Elliot</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/12/28/pirates/comment-page-1/#comment-55730</link>
		<dc:creator>Elliot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 11:06:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/12/28/pirates/#comment-55730</guid>
		<description>I have to imagine there are effective non-lethal countermeasures that can/will be developed. For example sound waves at frequencies that are extremely unpleasant, chemical deterrents like mace or pepper spray, short range detection devices, etc. which will make these attacks much harder to accomplish without the pirates having some very unpleasant but not fatal experiences.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to imagine there are effective non-lethal countermeasures that can/will be developed. For example sound waves at frequencies that are extremely unpleasant, chemical deterrents like mace or pepper spray, short range detection devices, etc. which will make these attacks much harder to accomplish without the pirates having some very unpleasant but not fatal experiences.</p>
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