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	<title>Comments on: Unsolicited Advice, Part Nine:  Choosing a Postdoc</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/01/08/unsolicited-advice-part-nine-choosing-a-postdoc/</link>
	<description>Random samplings from a universe of ideas.</description>
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		<title>By: Academic Career Links</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/01/08/unsolicited-advice-part-nine-choosing-a-postdoc/comment-page-1/#comment-67203</link>
		<dc:creator>Academic Career Links</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Mar 2009 20:02:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/01/08/unsolicited-advice-part-nine-choosing-a-postdoc/#comment-67203</guid>
		<description>There is also a nice series of four papers &quot;What They Don&#039;t Teach You in Graduate School&quot;
 at Inside Higher Ed by David E. Drew and Paul Gray, and a book by the same authors.
All pertinent links can be found &lt;a href=&quot;http://aclinks.wordpress.com/2009/03/16/what-they-dont-teach-you-in-graduate-school/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is also a nice series of four papers &#8220;What They Don&#8217;t Teach You in Graduate School&#8221;<br />
 at Inside Higher Ed by David E. Drew and Paul Gray, and a book by the same authors.<br />
All pertinent links can be found <a href="http://aclinks.wordpress.com/2009/03/16/what-they-dont-teach-you-in-graduate-school/" rel="nofollow">here</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Pauline</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/01/08/unsolicited-advice-part-nine-choosing-a-postdoc/comment-page-1/#comment-60103</link>
		<dc:creator>Pauline</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jan 2009 21:01:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/01/08/unsolicited-advice-part-nine-choosing-a-postdoc/#comment-60103</guid>
		<description>Great advice, as usual. How about some for the flip side -- &quot;choosing the right postdoc&quot; when you&#039;re the (new) faculty member doing the hiring?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great advice, as usual. How about some for the flip side &#8212; &#8220;choosing the right postdoc&#8221; when you&#8217;re the (new) faculty member doing the hiring?</p>
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		<title>By: Sili</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/01/08/unsolicited-advice-part-nine-choosing-a-postdoc/comment-page-1/#comment-59901</link>
		<dc:creator>Sili</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jan 2009 16:00:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/01/08/unsolicited-advice-part-nine-choosing-a-postdoc/#comment-59901</guid>
		<description>Once again this advice arrives at least five years too late. I really should have looked into what academia entailed before getting in. Considering how I floundered through my masters, I now don&#039;t understand why noöne stopped me earlier.

At least I enjoyed myself until I didn&#039;t anymore.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Once again this advice arrives at least five years too late. I really should have looked into what academia entailed before getting in. Considering how I floundered through my masters, I now don&#8217;t understand why noöne stopped me earlier.</p>
<p>At least I enjoyed myself until I didn&#8217;t anymore.</p>
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		<title>By: Lab Lemming</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/01/08/unsolicited-advice-part-nine-choosing-a-postdoc/comment-page-1/#comment-59726</link>
		<dc:creator>Lab Lemming</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jan 2009 21:35:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/01/08/unsolicited-advice-part-nine-choosing-a-postdoc/#comment-59726</guid>
		<description>Manual trackback:
http://lablemminglounge.blogspot.com/2009/01/extrapolating-from-data.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Manual trackback:<br />
<a href="http://lablemminglounge.blogspot.com/2009/01/extrapolating-from-data.html" rel="nofollow">http://lablemminglounge.blogspot.com/2009/01/extrapolating-from-data.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Count Iblis</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/01/08/unsolicited-advice-part-nine-choosing-a-postdoc/comment-page-1/#comment-59354</link>
		<dc:creator>Count Iblis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 22:19:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/01/08/unsolicited-advice-part-nine-choosing-a-postdoc/#comment-59354</guid>
		<description>Amused is 100% correct. If you also take into account that a postdoc job involves 60 hours work per week while you get paid for only 30 hours per week, you are far better off leaving academia after your Ph.D. and then work on your favorite science topic in your free time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amused is 100% correct. If you also take into account that a postdoc job involves 60 hours work per week while you get paid for only 30 hours per week, you are far better off leaving academia after your Ph.D. and then work on your favorite science topic in your free time.</p>
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		<title>By: amused</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/01/08/unsolicited-advice-part-nine-choosing-a-postdoc/comment-page-1/#comment-58967</link>
		<dc:creator>amused</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jan 2009 05:34:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/01/08/unsolicited-advice-part-nine-choosing-a-postdoc/#comment-58967</guid>
		<description>&quot;But when it comes to hiring a faculty member, it’s rarely done purely on promise — they want to see that you’ve done something.&quot;

Hahahahahahaha! No. Tell the young&#039;uns the truth, Sean.

When choosing a postdoc, to maximize chances for a future faculty position, you must, I repeat *must*, choose the institution with the greatest perceived prestige and which will give the maximum opportunity to get your names on the papers of famous, influential people. Then, when you get there, forget silly notions about establishing independence etc and devote all your efforts to attaching yourself to the research program(s) of bigshots, being junior co-author on their papers, getting them to like you and think of you as continuing their academic lineage.   
If you don&#039;t do that, then when applying for faculty positions you will join the queue behind those who did.

For a description of the postdoc life, with discussions of the challenges and strategies for advancement etc, I strongly recommend &quot;My life as a quant: reflections on physics and finance&quot; by Emanuel Derman. He discusses there how his fellow postdocs would cling to the elite institutions, even to the point of turning down paid postdoc positions at a lesser institution to work without salary at an elite one. Now why would they do that do you think?   

Wanting to develop your own independent research program is admirable and all, but you mustn&#039;t even think about that until you have tenure somewhere. Until then it is imperative to remain attached limpet-like to the research programs of the influential people who will be making or breaking you.

Let&#039;s wind up Sean with a rhetorical question: In general, what will count for more when someone is being assessed for a faculty position:
(a) Single-author publications in PRL
(b) Junior co-authorships on routine papers of bigshots (along with lots of other co-authors)
(Hint: one of these will count for nothing; the other will count for a whole lot.)  

 As for my own experience: Only once was I in the fortunate position of having more than one postdoc offer to choose from. There were two: 

(1) A 3-year offer from a very good youngish physicist with interests closely related to mine, who knew of and seemed to have a bit of respect for my work, was interested both in supporting it and interacting with me. 

(2) An offer from a new assistant prof working on different stuff. He didn&#039;t know or care much about my work, but was looking for someone willing to come and work for him on his project for one year, which was all he could afford to pay for from the money remaining in his startup grant. The hiree was supposed to take care of certain time-consuming but mundane aspects of the project, to free up time for the prof to focus on the interesting stuff. And if I wanted to continue my own stuff it would have to be as a hobby in my own time. 

Sounds like an easy decision? You bet it was. Of course, I have omitted the crucial details: The first offer was at a lower tier institution while the second was at a semi-illustrious one. Needless to say, I chose the second one. The first guy was completely understanding, saying he understood that I needed to make the decision I made. And, looking back now, I can say with certainty that it was an absolutely correct decision.  The relatively minor &quot;stamp of approval&quot; from having spent a short time at a semi-illustrious institution has helped me much more than any of the other stuff such as multiple single-author PRLs, plenary talks at major international conferences, and strong recommendation letters from leading figures in my acknowledged-as-&quot;important&quot;-but-less-fashionable-than-string-theory field. And in the quite likely event that I eventually have to leave academia  it will count for even more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;But when it comes to hiring a faculty member, it’s rarely done purely on promise — they want to see that you’ve done something.&#8221;</p>
<p>Hahahahahahaha! No. Tell the young&#8217;uns the truth, Sean.</p>
<p>When choosing a postdoc, to maximize chances for a future faculty position, you must, I repeat *must*, choose the institution with the greatest perceived prestige and which will give the maximum opportunity to get your names on the papers of famous, influential people. Then, when you get there, forget silly notions about establishing independence etc and devote all your efforts to attaching yourself to the research program(s) of bigshots, being junior co-author on their papers, getting them to like you and think of you as continuing their academic lineage.<br />
If you don&#8217;t do that, then when applying for faculty positions you will join the queue behind those who did.</p>
<p>For a description of the postdoc life, with discussions of the challenges and strategies for advancement etc, I strongly recommend &#8220;My life as a quant: reflections on physics and finance&#8221; by Emanuel Derman. He discusses there how his fellow postdocs would cling to the elite institutions, even to the point of turning down paid postdoc positions at a lesser institution to work without salary at an elite one. Now why would they do that do you think?   </p>
<p>Wanting to develop your own independent research program is admirable and all, but you mustn&#8217;t even think about that until you have tenure somewhere. Until then it is imperative to remain attached limpet-like to the research programs of the influential people who will be making or breaking you.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s wind up Sean with a rhetorical question: In general, what will count for more when someone is being assessed for a faculty position:<br />
(a) Single-author publications in PRL<br />
(b) Junior co-authorships on routine papers of bigshots (along with lots of other co-authors)<br />
(Hint: one of these will count for nothing; the other will count for a whole lot.)  </p>
<p> As for my own experience: Only once was I in the fortunate position of having more than one postdoc offer to choose from. There were two: </p>
<p>(1) A 3-year offer from a very good youngish physicist with interests closely related to mine, who knew of and seemed to have a bit of respect for my work, was interested both in supporting it and interacting with me. </p>
<p>(2) An offer from a new assistant prof working on different stuff. He didn&#8217;t know or care much about my work, but was looking for someone willing to come and work for him on his project for one year, which was all he could afford to pay for from the money remaining in his startup grant. The hiree was supposed to take care of certain time-consuming but mundane aspects of the project, to free up time for the prof to focus on the interesting stuff. And if I wanted to continue my own stuff it would have to be as a hobby in my own time. </p>
<p>Sounds like an easy decision? You bet it was. Of course, I have omitted the crucial details: The first offer was at a lower tier institution while the second was at a semi-illustrious one. Needless to say, I chose the second one. The first guy was completely understanding, saying he understood that I needed to make the decision I made. And, looking back now, I can say with certainty that it was an absolutely correct decision.  The relatively minor &#8220;stamp of approval&#8221; from having spent a short time at a semi-illustrious institution has helped me much more than any of the other stuff such as multiple single-author PRLs, plenary talks at major international conferences, and strong recommendation letters from leading figures in my acknowledged-as-&#8221;important&#8221;-but-less-fashionable-than-string-theory field. And in the quite likely event that I eventually have to leave academia  it will count for even more.</p>
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		<title>By: Isis the Scientist</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/01/08/unsolicited-advice-part-nine-choosing-a-postdoc/comment-page-1/#comment-58751</link>
		<dc:creator>Isis the Scientist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 06:23:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/01/08/unsolicited-advice-part-nine-choosing-a-postdoc/#comment-58751</guid>
		<description>This is great advice, per the usual.  I think key among things to look for in a postdoc is not just a lab where you will be able to liearn techniques, but the opportunity to think about new questions with the guidance of someone who is willing to help you along the path to independence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is great advice, per the usual.  I think key among things to look for in a postdoc is not just a lab where you will be able to liearn techniques, but the opportunity to think about new questions with the guidance of someone who is willing to help you along the path to independence.</p>
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		<title>By: TomC</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/01/08/unsolicited-advice-part-nine-choosing-a-postdoc/comment-page-1/#comment-58303</link>
		<dc:creator>TomC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 17:26:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/01/08/unsolicited-advice-part-nine-choosing-a-postdoc/#comment-58303</guid>
		<description>Damn, please ignore the word &quot;separate&quot; in that first sentence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Damn, please ignore the word &#8220;separate&#8221; in that first sentence.</p>
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		<title>By: TomC</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/01/08/unsolicited-advice-part-nine-choosing-a-postdoc/comment-page-1/#comment-58288</link>
		<dc:creator>TomC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 15:32:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/01/08/unsolicited-advice-part-nine-choosing-a-postdoc/#comment-58288</guid>
		<description>One criterion that might help separate the prospective postdoc rank her sheaf of offers:  Does the institution/department in question have both theorists and experimenters/observers working in the field of interest, and do they talk to one another?  An easy way to increase both the number and the potential interesting-ness of the papers on your c.v. is to get in on a data or projection paper for an experiment/observation (if you&#039;re  a theorist), or to lend your nuts-and-bolts wisdom to a wacky theorist&#039;s idea of what to look for (if you&#039;re an experimenter/observer), and this is most easily done if these two types of people are often in the same lunchroom or coffee lounge.

I&#039;ve also personally found that senior types that tend to be on hiring committees find these cross-pollinations particularly interesting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One criterion that might help separate the prospective postdoc rank her sheaf of offers:  Does the institution/department in question have both theorists and experimenters/observers working in the field of interest, and do they talk to one another?  An easy way to increase both the number and the potential interesting-ness of the papers on your c.v. is to get in on a data or projection paper for an experiment/observation (if you&#8217;re  a theorist), or to lend your nuts-and-bolts wisdom to a wacky theorist&#8217;s idea of what to look for (if you&#8217;re an experimenter/observer), and this is most easily done if these two types of people are often in the same lunchroom or coffee lounge.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve also personally found that senior types that tend to be on hiring committees find these cross-pollinations particularly interesting.</p>
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		<title>By: Sarah</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/01/08/unsolicited-advice-part-nine-choosing-a-postdoc/comment-page-1/#comment-58260</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 11:39:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/01/08/unsolicited-advice-part-nine-choosing-a-postdoc/#comment-58260</guid>
		<description>Great advice. I moved to a country and institution I didn&#039;t know from Adam (although I did speak the language, that helps) after being in the same place for 9 years - and it&#039;s been a great experience. Like you say, the difference between departments and faculties can be huge - and it&#039;s really given me a lot of perspective on the way science gets done. 

Sean - in my experience it&#039;s nearly always the number of papers that counts, with quality being of secondary interest. It angers me a bit, because it almost forces everyone else to focus more on quantity rather than quality. I guess it&#039;s a consequence of the way research departments themselves get assessed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great advice. I moved to a country and institution I didn&#8217;t know from Adam (although I did speak the language, that helps) after being in the same place for 9 years &#8211; and it&#8217;s been a great experience. Like you say, the difference between departments and faculties can be huge &#8211; and it&#8217;s really given me a lot of perspective on the way science gets done. </p>
<p>Sean &#8211; in my experience it&#8217;s nearly always the number of papers that counts, with quality being of secondary interest. It angers me a bit, because it almost forces everyone else to focus more on quantity rather than quality. I guess it&#8217;s a consequence of the way research departments themselves get assessed.</p>
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