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	<title>Comments on: Barack Obama vs. Genetic Determinism</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/01/24/barack-obama-vs-genetic-determinism/</link>
	<description>Random samplings from a universe of ideas.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 15:21:21 -0600</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Senior in High School babbyy :)</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/01/24/barack-obama-vs-genetic-determinism/comment-page-1/#comment-91971</link>
		<dc:creator>Senior in High School babbyy :)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Aug 2009 11:22:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/01/24/barack-obama-vs-genetic-determinism/#comment-91971</guid>
		<description>okay. so everyone has different levels of knowledge i for one believe that tests to judge whether blacks do better than whites is racial and not very accurate. to get an accurate percentage of the world you have to make everyone take the test! DUHH! i know alot of smart african americans and i know stupid ones, however, i also know alot of whites that are smart and probabaly even more that are dumb. ha. but anyways and then what about the hypocrites that dress like the opposite race? im white and smart, my bestfriend is white and dumb, my sister from another MOMMY (lol) is smart, her brother, yeah uhmm not so much! 

point- you cant judge from a little percent of the world!!


JUST SAYING !</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>okay. so everyone has different levels of knowledge i for one believe that tests to judge whether blacks do better than whites is racial and not very accurate. to get an accurate percentage of the world you have to make everyone take the test! DUHH! i know alot of smart african americans and i know stupid ones, however, i also know alot of whites that are smart and probabaly even more that are dumb. ha. but anyways and then what about the hypocrites that dress like the opposite race? im white and smart, my bestfriend is white and dumb, my sister from another MOMMY (lol) is smart, her brother, yeah uhmm not so much! </p>
<p>point- you cant judge from a little percent of the world!!</p>
<p>JUST SAYING !</p>
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		<title>By: Low Math, Meekly Interacting</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/01/24/barack-obama-vs-genetic-determinism/comment-page-1/#comment-61477</link>
		<dc:creator>Low Math, Meekly Interacting</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 14:42:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/01/24/barack-obama-vs-genetic-determinism/#comment-61477</guid>
		<description>These tests are, at the very least, worthless for the purposes of measuring the genetic underpinnings of &quot;intelligence&quot;, of which we have neither an adequate definition, nor any plausible candidate alleles, haplotypes, genotypes, or epigenotypes.  Both the existence of &quot;g&quot; and its putative heritable components are, at this stage, hypothetical.  Even if they exist, these tests do not serve as an adequate probe, which has already been established, especially in the minds of those investigators whose politics lean left.  That&#039;s our background.  Hence, such tests have precisely zero to say about genetic determinism, either pro or con, and to suggest they do is equally wrong for either hypothesis.  The fact that yet another test shows environmental components to performance (a point even the determinists allow, so this post appears to attack something of a straw-man) may be interesting, but tells us precisely zero about heritable factors.

What we know about these tests is that there&#039;s a correlation between high performance and comparable performance for a particular set of other tasks, such as other kinds of tests in an academic setting.  That&#039;s it.  That anxiety can influence this performance isn&#039;t a terribly remarkable finding, nor is it remarkable that members of different ethnic groups may be made anxious in ways particular to their group, given that their environment can impinge on them in particular ways.  If this study, or any that preceded it, have any validity or statistical power, that&#039;s what they&#039;ve discovered.  The rest we can only properly be agnostic about.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These tests are, at the very least, worthless for the purposes of measuring the genetic underpinnings of &#8220;intelligence&#8221;, of which we have neither an adequate definition, nor any plausible candidate alleles, haplotypes, genotypes, or epigenotypes.  Both the existence of &#8220;g&#8221; and its putative heritable components are, at this stage, hypothetical.  Even if they exist, these tests do not serve as an adequate probe, which has already been established, especially in the minds of those investigators whose politics lean left.  That&#8217;s our background.  Hence, such tests have precisely zero to say about genetic determinism, either pro or con, and to suggest they do is equally wrong for either hypothesis.  The fact that yet another test shows environmental components to performance (a point even the determinists allow, so this post appears to attack something of a straw-man) may be interesting, but tells us precisely zero about heritable factors.</p>
<p>What we know about these tests is that there&#8217;s a correlation between high performance and comparable performance for a particular set of other tasks, such as other kinds of tests in an academic setting.  That&#8217;s it.  That anxiety can influence this performance isn&#8217;t a terribly remarkable finding, nor is it remarkable that members of different ethnic groups may be made anxious in ways particular to their group, given that their environment can impinge on them in particular ways.  If this study, or any that preceded it, have any validity or statistical power, that&#8217;s what they&#8217;ve discovered.  The rest we can only properly be agnostic about.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Coles</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/01/24/barack-obama-vs-genetic-determinism/comment-page-1/#comment-61446</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Coles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 08:28:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/01/24/barack-obama-vs-genetic-determinism/#comment-61446</guid>
		<description>Count Iblis

Right. Your statement has gone from &quot;undeniable&quot; to &quot;very plausible&quot;. Give it another day and it will be &quot;bogus&quot;.

Of course there are genetic differences between races. That&#039;s why there are races. But when it comes to sport there are surely huge social and peer pressures determining which sports different people take up. Sprinting offers many black role models which must be a factor.

There are very few black golfers and I&#039;ve never played bridge against a black opponent. Are those genetic too?

Peter</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Count Iblis</p>
<p>Right. Your statement has gone from &#8220;undeniable&#8221; to &#8220;very plausible&#8221;. Give it another day and it will be &#8220;bogus&#8221;.</p>
<p>Of course there are genetic differences between races. That&#8217;s why there are races. But when it comes to sport there are surely huge social and peer pressures determining which sports different people take up. Sprinting offers many black role models which must be a factor.</p>
<p>There are very few black golfers and I&#8217;ve never played bridge against a black opponent. Are those genetic too?</p>
<p>Peter</p>
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		<title>By: lemuel pitkin</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/01/24/barack-obama-vs-genetic-determinism/comment-page-1/#comment-61405</link>
		<dc:creator>lemuel pitkin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 01:04:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/01/24/barack-obama-vs-genetic-determinism/#comment-61405</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I think it is very plausible to assume &lt;/i&gt;

Oh, is this how you do science?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I think it is very plausible to assume </i></p>
<p>Oh, is this how you do science?</p>
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		<title>By: Count Iblis</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/01/24/barack-obama-vs-genetic-determinism/comment-page-1/#comment-61402</link>
		<dc:creator>Count Iblis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 00:26:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/01/24/barack-obama-vs-genetic-determinism/#comment-61402</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;It’s interesting to learn that there is a gene for running the 100 metres. I always thought you had to train. I wonder if there is also a gene for being unable to see a stupid argument?
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I think it is very plausible to assume that there are genes that regulate the type of muscle fibers you have which determine whether you are better suited for long distance running compared to the sprint.

There may be genes for being unable to see stupid arguments, as well as genes that make you dismiss any valid arguments that undermine your ideology out of hand.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>It’s interesting to learn that there is a gene for running the 100 metres. I always thought you had to train. I wonder if there is also a gene for being unable to see a stupid argument?
</p></blockquote>
<p>I think it is very plausible to assume that there are genes that regulate the type of muscle fibers you have which determine whether you are better suited for long distance running compared to the sprint.</p>
<p>There may be genes for being unable to see stupid arguments, as well as genes that make you dismiss any valid arguments that undermine your ideology out of hand.</p>
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		<title>By: Ja Muller</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/01/24/barack-obama-vs-genetic-determinism/comment-page-1/#comment-61379</link>
		<dc:creator>Ja Muller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jan 2009 22:48:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/01/24/barack-obama-vs-genetic-determinism/#comment-61379</guid>
		<description>Low Math, Meekly Interacting said
&quot;Either these tests are worthless, or they’re not.&quot;


Ummm, no.  The tests are clearly not worthless.  If one person got something like 140 and another got an 80 saying the person with a 140 is more intelligent regardless of race should not be controversial.  That said they obviously have problems and the point that people who like this finding should not be trumpeting the results is valid since it was not a huge study and the next one could show the exact opposite.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Low Math, Meekly Interacting said<br />
&#8220;Either these tests are worthless, or they’re not.&#8221;</p>
<p>Ummm, no.  The tests are clearly not worthless.  If one person got something like 140 and another got an 80 saying the person with a 140 is more intelligent regardless of race should not be controversial.  That said they obviously have problems and the point that people who like this finding should not be trumpeting the results is valid since it was not a huge study and the next one could show the exact opposite.</p>
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		<title>By: Low Math, Meekly Interacting</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/01/24/barack-obama-vs-genetic-determinism/comment-page-1/#comment-61329</link>
		<dc:creator>Low Math, Meekly Interacting</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jan 2009 16:49:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/01/24/barack-obama-vs-genetic-determinism/#comment-61329</guid>
		<description>Standardized tests don&#039;t measure anything, except the ability to take standardized tests, right?  That&#039;s why we dismiss SAT scores and IQ scores that show racial disparities out-of-hand, because they&#039;re inherently culturally biased (for myriad reasons not addressed by this study&#039;s hypothesis).  Right?  We don&#039;t even know what g is, or if it exists, so the idea that it can be measured is evidentially groundless.  RIGHT?

C&#039;mon liberals.  We can&#039;t have it both ways.  We shouldn&#039;t get a free pass to trumpet results like this, when in the next breath we crap all over the same tests when they generate results we don&#039;t like.  Either these tests are worthless, or they&#039;re not.  Either they&#039;re intrinsically culturally biased, or they&#039;re not.  Either we know what intelligence is, or we don&#039;t.  We don&#039;t get to claim knowledge we don&#039;t have when the utilization of that &quot;knowledge&quot; fits a pre-conceived notion.  That&#039;s the epitome of unscientific behavior.  If it makes you happy, fine, say it makes you happy.  No problem with that.  But why even suggest it means anything remotely scientific?  You just open the point up to ridicule by the bigots, and rightly so, which helps no one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Standardized tests don&#8217;t measure anything, except the ability to take standardized tests, right?  That&#8217;s why we dismiss SAT scores and IQ scores that show racial disparities out-of-hand, because they&#8217;re inherently culturally biased (for myriad reasons not addressed by this study&#8217;s hypothesis).  Right?  We don&#8217;t even know what g is, or if it exists, so the idea that it can be measured is evidentially groundless.  RIGHT?</p>
<p>C&#8217;mon liberals.  We can&#8217;t have it both ways.  We shouldn&#8217;t get a free pass to trumpet results like this, when in the next breath we crap all over the same tests when they generate results we don&#8217;t like.  Either these tests are worthless, or they&#8217;re not.  Either they&#8217;re intrinsically culturally biased, or they&#8217;re not.  Either we know what intelligence is, or we don&#8217;t.  We don&#8217;t get to claim knowledge we don&#8217;t have when the utilization of that &#8220;knowledge&#8221; fits a pre-conceived notion.  That&#8217;s the epitome of unscientific behavior.  If it makes you happy, fine, say it makes you happy.  No problem with that.  But why even suggest it means anything remotely scientific?  You just open the point up to ridicule by the bigots, and rightly so, which helps no one.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Coles</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/01/24/barack-obama-vs-genetic-determinism/comment-page-1/#comment-61328</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Coles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jan 2009 16:39:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/01/24/barack-obama-vs-genetic-determinism/#comment-61328</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s interesting to learn that there is a gene for running the 100 metres. I always thought you had to train. I wonder if there is also a gene for being unable to see a stupid argument?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s interesting to learn that there is a gene for running the 100 metres. I always thought you had to train. I wonder if there is also a gene for being unable to see a stupid argument?</p>
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		<title>By: lemuel pitkin</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/01/24/barack-obama-vs-genetic-determinism/comment-page-1/#comment-61320</link>
		<dc:creator>lemuel pitkin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jan 2009 15:30:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/01/24/barack-obama-vs-genetic-determinism/#comment-61320</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;There are undeniable genetic differences between blacks and whites. E.g., how many whites have ever run the 100 meters in under ten seconds? How many top black swimmers are there?&lt;/i&gt;

Good point! Along the smae lines, have you ever noticed how interesting it is that the British Empire included so many different groups with a genetic predisposition for playing cricket?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>There are undeniable genetic differences between blacks and whites. E.g., how many whites have ever run the 100 meters in under ten seconds? How many top black swimmers are there?</i></p>
<p>Good point! Along the smae lines, have you ever noticed how interesting it is that the British Empire included so many different groups with a genetic predisposition for playing cricket?</p>
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		<title>By: Bipolar Disorder &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Barack Obama vs. Genetic Determinism &#124; Cosmic Variance &#124; Discover &#8230;</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/01/24/barack-obama-vs-genetic-determinism/comment-page-1/#comment-61295</link>
		<dc:creator>Bipolar Disorder &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Barack Obama vs. Genetic Determinism &#124; Cosmic Variance &#124; Discover &#8230;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jan 2009 08:50:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/01/24/barack-obama-vs-genetic-determinism/#comment-61295</guid>
		<description>[...] Excerpt from:  Barack Obama vs. Genetic Determinism &#124; Cosmic Variance &#124; Discover &#8230; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Excerpt from:  Barack Obama vs. Genetic Determinism | Cosmic Variance | Discover &#8230; [...]</p>
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