<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Even More on the Stimulus</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/03/even-more-on-the-stimulus/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/03/even-more-on-the-stimulus/</link>
	<description>Random samplings from a universe of ideas.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 14 Feb 2012 16:48:30 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Matt A</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/03/even-more-on-the-stimulus/comment-page-1/#comment-63552</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt A</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Feb 2009 02:37:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/03/even-more-on-the-stimulus/#comment-63552</guid>
		<description>Once again this blog shows a complete lack of basic economic understanding.

The graph shown is for the &quot;economic multiplier&quot;, ie. for every $1 invested how much return we see in long run GDP.  However, I have never seen any type of multiplier analysis even close to what the graph is showing.  For example, extending unemployment benefits has a multiplier of 1.63?  Numerous studies have shown extending the duration of unemployment benefits only increase the unemployment rate (that&#039;s even in my Econ 101 textbook, though I doubt many of the commentators on this site own one). 

Tax cuts stimulate the economy for two reasons:  1) you are providing works with more incentive to work harder, therefore you increase worker productivity and 2) workers will simply have more money to spend/save/invest as they see fit.  For example, Christina Romer (Obama&#039;s new chair of the Council of Economic Advisers) found an economic multiplier of 3 for tax cuts: 

http://www.econ.berkeley.edu/~cromer/RomerDraft307.pdf

If Obama had such a smart choice for (some of) his economic advisers, why on earth did he outsource the writing of this stimulus package to pelosi and the house democrats?

On a final note, the problem with huge outlays in government spending (such as this stimulus package) under the auspices of &quot;stimulating the economy&quot; is that everyone makes the case that their own special interest has the &quot;best bang for the buck&quot; for spending .. accordingly you guys all argue $1 invested in science and technology by the government is the best way to grow the economy ..  maybe you&#039;re looking out for your own tax payer funded jobs ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Once again this blog shows a complete lack of basic economic understanding.</p>
<p>The graph shown is for the &#8220;economic multiplier&#8221;, ie. for every $1 invested how much return we see in long run GDP.  However, I have never seen any type of multiplier analysis even close to what the graph is showing.  For example, extending unemployment benefits has a multiplier of 1.63?  Numerous studies have shown extending the duration of unemployment benefits only increase the unemployment rate (that&#8217;s even in my Econ 101 textbook, though I doubt many of the commentators on this site own one). </p>
<p>Tax cuts stimulate the economy for two reasons:  1) you are providing works with more incentive to work harder, therefore you increase worker productivity and 2) workers will simply have more money to spend/save/invest as they see fit.  For example, Christina Romer (Obama&#8217;s new chair of the Council of Economic Advisers) found an economic multiplier of 3 for tax cuts: </p>
<p><a href="http://www.econ.berkeley.edu/~cromer/RomerDraft307.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.econ.berkeley.edu/~cromer/RomerDraft307.pdf</a></p>
<p>If Obama had such a smart choice for (some of) his economic advisers, why on earth did he outsource the writing of this stimulus package to pelosi and the house democrats?</p>
<p>On a final note, the problem with huge outlays in government spending (such as this stimulus package) under the auspices of &#8220;stimulating the economy&#8221; is that everyone makes the case that their own special interest has the &#8220;best bang for the buck&#8221; for spending .. accordingly you guys all argue $1 invested in science and technology by the government is the best way to grow the economy ..  maybe you&#8217;re looking out for your own tax payer funded jobs <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Science funding crisis &#171; The Liquid Thinker</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/03/even-more-on-the-stimulus/comment-page-1/#comment-62899</link>
		<dc:creator>Science funding crisis &#171; The Liquid Thinker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Feb 2009 22:24:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/03/even-more-on-the-stimulus/#comment-62899</guid>
		<description>[...] There are other cuts of course, but I see a tendency to focus cutting on science, technology and education. This is unacceptable and irresponsible. It shows that our government still has not worked out what ought to be priorities for a well functioning society, or realized that science funding does help stimulate the economy. More stimulus bang for the buck than tax cuts. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] There are other cuts of course, but I see a tendency to focus cutting on science, technology and education. This is unacceptable and irresponsible. It shows that our government still has not worked out what ought to be priorities for a well functioning society, or realized that science funding does help stimulate the economy. More stimulus bang for the buck than tax cuts. [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: a grad student</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/03/even-more-on-the-stimulus/comment-page-1/#comment-62625</link>
		<dc:creator>a grad student</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Feb 2009 20:47:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/03/even-more-on-the-stimulus/#comment-62625</guid>
		<description>One other thing..if the source of the graphic is this chart: http://www.economy.com/dismal/graphs/blog/mz_012208_1t.GIF

then it only relates the one year $ change/return in gdp which is how the graphic should be labeled</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One other thing..if the source of the graphic is this chart: <a href="http://www.economy.com/dismal/graphs/blog/mz_012208_1t.GIF" rel="nofollow">http://www.economy.com/dismal/graphs/blog/mz_012208_1t.GIF</a></p>
<p>then it only relates the one year $ change/return in gdp which is how the graphic should be labeled</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jerry Critter</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/03/even-more-on-the-stimulus/comment-page-1/#comment-62574</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerry Critter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Feb 2009 05:08:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/03/even-more-on-the-stimulus/#comment-62574</guid>
		<description>No company or corporation has built a factory because they have received a corporate tax cut.  They built new factories because the demand for their product has increased.  The demand come first.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No company or corporation has built a factory because they have received a corporate tax cut.  They built new factories because the demand for their product has increased.  The demand come first.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/03/even-more-on-the-stimulus/comment-page-1/#comment-62573</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Feb 2009 05:06:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/03/even-more-on-the-stimulus/#comment-62573</guid>
		<description>@ Anonymous Snowboarder

&quot;In particular, if money is fungible, why would a person treat increased unemployment benefits differently than a tax rebate check?&quot;

I&#039;m no economics expert - perhaps nobody is - but maybe the person on unemployment is more likely to be in such dire need that he has no option but to spend the money just to provide basic necessities such as food and rent, whereas any tax rebate check I get will go straight into the bank, and the money will stay there for quite a while.  I will probably just have more money in the bank the second before I die, after which, of course, I will no longer maintain possession of it.  
     Quite frankly, I&#039;m not even sure what we mean by &quot;stimulate the economy.&quot;  Do we mean raise the GDP, create more economic activity, increase the production and delivery of goods and services?  If the GDP rises and the median income declines, will we say that the economy has improved?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Anonymous Snowboarder</p>
<p>&#8220;In particular, if money is fungible, why would a person treat increased unemployment benefits differently than a tax rebate check?&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m no economics expert &#8211; perhaps nobody is &#8211; but maybe the person on unemployment is more likely to be in such dire need that he has no option but to spend the money just to provide basic necessities such as food and rent, whereas any tax rebate check I get will go straight into the bank, and the money will stay there for quite a while.  I will probably just have more money in the bank the second before I die, after which, of course, I will no longer maintain possession of it.<br />
     Quite frankly, I&#8217;m not even sure what we mean by &#8220;stimulate the economy.&#8221;  Do we mean raise the GDP, create more economic activity, increase the production and delivery of goods and services?  If the GDP rises and the median income declines, will we say that the economy has improved?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anonymous Snowboarder</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/03/even-more-on-the-stimulus/comment-page-1/#comment-62555</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous Snowboarder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Feb 2009 00:11:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/03/even-more-on-the-stimulus/#comment-62555</guid>
		<description>@John - thanks for the comment on my blog.   I&#039;ve posted a reply, but will cross it here too:

Zandi is just one of many economists who have spoken on this subject and as others have noted, his group has put out some debatable stats about the effects of different spending/tax changes. In particular, if money is fungible, why would a person treat increased unemployment benefits differently than a tax rebate check? He claims the tax check would be put towards paying down debt and yet claims that people will spend any income support they get very quickly. Its difficult to have this both ways unless the income support is greatly in excess of the tax credit.

Here are a few conflicting views:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123258618204604599.html
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0109/18068.html

and a full page ad/list of those economists who think its not so good:
http://www.cato.org/special/stimulus09/cato_stimulus.pdf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@John &#8211; thanks for the comment on my blog.   I&#8217;ve posted a reply, but will cross it here too:</p>
<p>Zandi is just one of many economists who have spoken on this subject and as others have noted, his group has put out some debatable stats about the effects of different spending/tax changes. In particular, if money is fungible, why would a person treat increased unemployment benefits differently than a tax rebate check? He claims the tax check would be put towards paying down debt and yet claims that people will spend any income support they get very quickly. Its difficult to have this both ways unless the income support is greatly in excess of the tax credit.</p>
<p>Here are a few conflicting views:<br />
<a href="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123258618204604599.html" rel="nofollow">http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123258618204604599.html</a><br />
<a href="http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0109/18068.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0109/18068.html</a></p>
<p>and a full page ad/list of those economists who think its not so good:<br />
<a href="http://www.cato.org/special/stimulus09/cato_stimulus.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.cato.org/special/stimulus09/cato_stimulus.pdf</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/03/even-more-on-the-stimulus/comment-page-1/#comment-62539</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 21:53:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/03/even-more-on-the-stimulus/#comment-62539</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Joseph, for the link to Zandi&#039;s analysis.  In there he tells us that the numbers in the chart in my post represent the one-year dollar increase to GDP for every dollar spent, based on Moody&#039;s macroeconomic model.

One can quibble with the model assumptions, but it is hard to imagine that it is so wrong that  it could turn a 30-cent-return on corporate tax cuts into a net positive return.   So, yes, Sili, I really do believe that if people were educated about this, the argument in favor of tax cuts would be squelched, definitively.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Joseph, for the link to Zandi&#8217;s analysis.  In there he tells us that the numbers in the chart in my post represent the one-year dollar increase to GDP for every dollar spent, based on Moody&#8217;s macroeconomic model.</p>
<p>One can quibble with the model assumptions, but it is hard to imagine that it is so wrong that  it could turn a 30-cent-return on corporate tax cuts into a net positive return.   So, yes, Sili, I really do believe that if people were educated about this, the argument in favor of tax cuts would be squelched, definitively.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Sili</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/03/even-more-on-the-stimulus/comment-page-1/#comment-62533</link>
		<dc:creator>Sili</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 20:23:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/03/even-more-on-the-stimulus/#comment-62533</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;squelch definitively the incessant chant for tax cuts&lt;/blockquote&gt;

HAH!

Do you really believe that? When has facts and reality &lt;em&gt;ever&lt;/em&gt; come in the way of the Republan politic of lining the pockets of one&#039;s chums? I&#039;m no USAnian, but I do prefer &quot;tax and spend&quot; to &quot;spend and spend&quot;.

Now if we could get rid of the incessant box ticking and middle management we&#039;re incumbered with over here in the name of &#039;quality control&#039;, then we might even get to spend that money sensibly. I have long ago learned that &#039;quality&#039; in the mouth of a politico means &#039;quantity&#039;. Wankers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>squelch definitively the incessant chant for tax cuts</p></blockquote>
<p>HAH!</p>
<p>Do you really believe that? When has facts and reality <em>ever</em> come in the way of the Republan politic of lining the pockets of one&#8217;s chums? I&#8217;m no USAnian, but I do prefer &#8220;tax and spend&#8221; to &#8220;spend and spend&#8221;.</p>
<p>Now if we could get rid of the incessant box ticking and middle management we&#8217;re incumbered with over here in the name of &#8216;quality control&#8217;, then we might even get to spend that money sensibly. I have long ago learned that &#8216;quality&#8217; in the mouth of a politico means &#8216;quantity&#8217;. Wankers.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Joseph</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/03/even-more-on-the-stimulus/comment-page-1/#comment-62517</link>
		<dc:creator>Joseph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 17:19:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/03/even-more-on-the-stimulus/#comment-62517</guid>
		<description>The source of the chart data seems to be Moody&#039;s economic model.  See page 9 of http://www.economy.com/mark-zandi/documents/Economic_Stimulus_House_Plan_012109.pdf

There seems to be some possibly misleading assumptions behind this chart.  For example, how did Moody&#039;s calculate the effect of &quot;making Bush income tax cuts permenent&quot;?  Suppose they assumed that *all* taxes would go up in 2009, and then computed the GDP gain at the end of 2009 of &quot;spending&quot; *only* on the Bush income tax cuts.  That might amount to a net tax increase with no increase in other spending in Moody&#039;s model -- of course that&#039;s going to have a negative return for the economy!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The source of the chart data seems to be Moody&#8217;s economic model.  See page 9 of <a href="http://www.economy.com/mark-zandi/documents/Economic_Stimulus_House_Plan_012109.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.economy.com/mark-zandi/documents/Economic_Stimulus_House_Plan_012109.pdf</a></p>
<p>There seems to be some possibly misleading assumptions behind this chart.  For example, how did Moody&#8217;s calculate the effect of &#8220;making Bush income tax cuts permenent&#8221;?  Suppose they assumed that *all* taxes would go up in 2009, and then computed the GDP gain at the end of 2009 of &#8220;spending&#8221; *only* on the Bush income tax cuts.  That might amount to a net tax increase with no increase in other spending in Moody&#8217;s model &#8212; of course that&#8217;s going to have a negative return for the economy!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jason Heldenbrand</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/03/even-more-on-the-stimulus/comment-page-1/#comment-62495</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Heldenbrand</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 13:22:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/03/even-more-on-the-stimulus/#comment-62495</guid>
		<description>Increased spending into science has perhaps the highest probable return than any other.  New technology requires new manufacturing, new specialists, new materials, new retailers.  

You have to understand, most of the things Republicans consider &#039;waste&#039; only sound like it to people who don&#039;t rely on it.  A town with an extremely popular waterpark might request funds to repair it.  Without those funds the waterpark will fail and the town might wither and die.  Meanwhile their tax dollars are no longer taken to the government, their purchases no longer make their way back into the economy.  Meanwhile, all the government saw to slash was &#039;waterpark&#039;.  Money sent back in -any- form into -our- infrastructure will return.  Money sent overseas will not.  

Besides, after 8 years of digging our economic grave Republicans have absolutely no room to talk about fiscal responsibility.  While in power they could have reigned in Bush anytime they wanted, or proposed their own fixes.  They didn&#039;t.  Now its up to a new administration to clean up the mess.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Increased spending into science has perhaps the highest probable return than any other.  New technology requires new manufacturing, new specialists, new materials, new retailers.  </p>
<p>You have to understand, most of the things Republicans consider &#8216;waste&#8217; only sound like it to people who don&#8217;t rely on it.  A town with an extremely popular waterpark might request funds to repair it.  Without those funds the waterpark will fail and the town might wither and die.  Meanwhile their tax dollars are no longer taken to the government, their purchases no longer make their way back into the economy.  Meanwhile, all the government saw to slash was &#8216;waterpark&#8217;.  Money sent back in -any- form into -our- infrastructure will return.  Money sent overseas will not.  </p>
<p>Besides, after 8 years of digging our economic grave Republicans have absolutely no room to talk about fiscal responsibility.  While in power they could have reigned in Bush anytime they wanted, or proposed their own fixes.  They didn&#8217;t.  Now its up to a new administration to clean up the mess.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Making sausage &#124; Cosmic Variance &#124; Discover Magazine</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/03/even-more-on-the-stimulus/comment-page-1/#comment-62470</link>
		<dc:creator>Making sausage &#124; Cosmic Variance &#124; Discover Magazine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 06:37:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/03/even-more-on-the-stimulus/#comment-62470</guid>
		<description>[...] Blogs / Cosmic Variance        &#171; Even More on the Stimulus [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Blogs / Cosmic Variance        &laquo; Even More on the Stimulus [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/03/even-more-on-the-stimulus/comment-page-1/#comment-62467</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 05:59:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/03/even-more-on-the-stimulus/#comment-62467</guid>
		<description>&quot;High-end tax cuts get put in banks and the money gets sat on, doing little good to an economy where the main problem is that everyone including the banks is sitting on their money and nothing is moving.&quot;

I&#039;m not in favor of high end tax cuts, but the recent lamenting that Americans are saving too much and not spending enough smacks of Bush-era consumerism.  If the key to this is the liquidity in the banks, than how is people saving money in banks a problem, exactly?  The banks are going to loan that money out, not make piles of it and roll around in it.

Infrastructure sending sounds fine.  But if that&#039;s so stimulating, why is the bloated $260 billion highway bill passed just two years ago not stimulating the economy?  If deficit spending helps, why is $1.2 trillion in deficit spending not enough?  On the flip side, if tax cuts for the middle class are so hot, how come the $150 billion &quot;stimulus&quot; of last summer didn&#039;t work?

It seems to me that while some spending is good idea, the idea that all spending is good spending has to be false.  And if we continue to rack up debts, we risk inflation.

Far better results could be gotten by reforms that won&#039;t cost the government a penny -- like simplifying the byzantine corporate tax system, overhauling financial regulation or removing the perverse incentives that move businesses offshore.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;High-end tax cuts get put in banks and the money gets sat on, doing little good to an economy where the main problem is that everyone including the banks is sitting on their money and nothing is moving.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not in favor of high end tax cuts, but the recent lamenting that Americans are saving too much and not spending enough smacks of Bush-era consumerism.  If the key to this is the liquidity in the banks, than how is people saving money in banks a problem, exactly?  The banks are going to loan that money out, not make piles of it and roll around in it.</p>
<p>Infrastructure sending sounds fine.  But if that&#8217;s so stimulating, why is the bloated $260 billion highway bill passed just two years ago not stimulating the economy?  If deficit spending helps, why is $1.2 trillion in deficit spending not enough?  On the flip side, if tax cuts for the middle class are so hot, how come the $150 billion &#8220;stimulus&#8221; of last summer didn&#8217;t work?</p>
<p>It seems to me that while some spending is good idea, the idea that all spending is good spending has to be false.  And if we continue to rack up debts, we risk inflation.</p>
<p>Far better results could be gotten by reforms that won&#8217;t cost the government a penny &#8212; like simplifying the byzantine corporate tax system, overhauling financial regulation or removing the perverse incentives that move businesses offshore.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jyotirmoy Bhattacharya</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/03/even-more-on-the-stimulus/comment-page-1/#comment-62461</link>
		<dc:creator>Jyotirmoy Bhattacharya</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 04:57:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/03/even-more-on-the-stimulus/#comment-62461</guid>
		<description>John: What you need is the &#039;&lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spending_multiplier&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;multiplier&lt;/a&gt;&#039;, not the &#039;velocity of money&#039;. With the stimulus package, what you want to know is how much of additional private spending a dollar of government spending will stimulate. This is independent of how fast money changes hands. Think of a $365 stimulus package: on day one the government mints a dollar coin and spends it on my goods, but I am in no mood to spend so I deposit the money in a bank. The next day the government borrows the $1 from the bank and gets the coin as its loan, and then gives to me in in return for my goods. I don&#039;t want to spend today either and deposit the money in the bank again. And so on for the rest of the year. At the end of the year the dollar coin has changed hands 365 times, so its velocity is 1/365, but the government expenditure hasn&#039;t generated any additional private spending, so the value of the multiplier is just 1.

As for price as the force which moves spending, my guess is that in the current context consumers&#039; expectations of their future incomes and liabilities is likely to be a more important influence on how much of their additional income they spend. See the &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_income_hypothesis&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;permanent income hypothesis&lt;/a&gt; (it is an accepted theory now, but the name has stuck).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John: What you need is the &#8216;<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spending_multiplier" rel="nofollow">multiplier</a>&#8216;, not the &#8216;velocity of money&#8217;. With the stimulus package, what you want to know is how much of additional private spending a dollar of government spending will stimulate. This is independent of how fast money changes hands. Think of a $365 stimulus package: on day one the government mints a dollar coin and spends it on my goods, but I am in no mood to spend so I deposit the money in a bank. The next day the government borrows the $1 from the bank and gets the coin as its loan, and then gives to me in in return for my goods. I don&#8217;t want to spend today either and deposit the money in the bank again. And so on for the rest of the year. At the end of the year the dollar coin has changed hands 365 times, so its velocity is 1/365, but the government expenditure hasn&#8217;t generated any additional private spending, so the value of the multiplier is just 1.</p>
<p>As for price as the force which moves spending, my guess is that in the current context consumers&#8217; expectations of their future incomes and liabilities is likely to be a more important influence on how much of their additional income they spend. See the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_income_hypothesis" rel="nofollow">permanent income hypothesis</a> (it is an accepted theory now, but the name has stuck).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/03/even-more-on-the-stimulus/comment-page-1/#comment-62457</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 03:58:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/03/even-more-on-the-stimulus/#comment-62457</guid>
		<description>&quot;Let the taxpayers decide with their quick new cash&quot;...heh.  Will they fix the 120-year-old levees that threaten Sacramento?  Will they invest in decaying public schools?  Will they repair bridges in danger of plunging into rivers?  Fund the education and research that will fuel fundamental economic growth?  

I think we know the answer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Let the taxpayers decide with their quick new cash&#8221;&#8230;heh.  Will they fix the 120-year-old levees that threaten Sacramento?  Will they invest in decaying public schools?  Will they repair bridges in danger of plunging into rivers?  Fund the education and research that will fuel fundamental economic growth?  </p>
<p>I think we know the answer.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Low Math, Meekly Interacting</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/03/even-more-on-the-stimulus/comment-page-1/#comment-62455</link>
		<dc:creator>Low Math, Meekly Interacting</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 03:43:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/03/even-more-on-the-stimulus/#comment-62455</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m totally on-board with the need for better-funded basic research, but, as you say, that&#039;s a long-term shift in priorities.  As such, it&#039;s not really what a stimulus package is all about, is it?  The stimulus is like a shot adrenaline straight to the heart to revive the patient, such that there&#039;s something viable left to nourish better over the long term with that improved diet of research.

What I worry about is that this point is rapidly being lost among the party in power.  I&#039;m generally a progressive, but I must agree with the minority at times about the conflation of short and long-term priorities.  Let&#039;s face it:  Our transportation infrastructure is in dire shape, our water and waste treatment infrastructure is not much better, schools are in shambles, several banks are about to collapse, our biggest manufacturers are on the verge of near concomitant failure, home values are deep underwater...it just goes on and on.  The whole point behind this trillion-dollar madness, so I thought, was that if we don&#039;t blow a serious wad on immediate job-creation and consumer-cash infusion now, in the future the state of our R&amp;D will be the least of our worries.

I, for one, am growing less and less convinced with each article I read that the stimulus is being targeted in an effective, non-ideological manner, any more than I think for one moment Republican opposition isn&#039;t market-fundy voodoo.  In other words, I&#039;m not sure if the bulk of it is remotely stimulatory, and if it isn&#039;t, I&#039;m not sure what the point is, other than grabbing for pork.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m totally on-board with the need for better-funded basic research, but, as you say, that&#8217;s a long-term shift in priorities.  As such, it&#8217;s not really what a stimulus package is all about, is it?  The stimulus is like a shot adrenaline straight to the heart to revive the patient, such that there&#8217;s something viable left to nourish better over the long term with that improved diet of research.</p>
<p>What I worry about is that this point is rapidly being lost among the party in power.  I&#8217;m generally a progressive, but I must agree with the minority at times about the conflation of short and long-term priorities.  Let&#8217;s face it:  Our transportation infrastructure is in dire shape, our water and waste treatment infrastructure is not much better, schools are in shambles, several banks are about to collapse, our biggest manufacturers are on the verge of near concomitant failure, home values are deep underwater&#8230;it just goes on and on.  The whole point behind this trillion-dollar madness, so I thought, was that if we don&#8217;t blow a serious wad on immediate job-creation and consumer-cash infusion now, in the future the state of our R&#038;D will be the least of our worries.</p>
<p>I, for one, am growing less and less convinced with each article I read that the stimulus is being targeted in an effective, non-ideological manner, any more than I think for one moment Republican opposition isn&#8217;t market-fundy voodoo.  In other words, I&#8217;m not sure if the bulk of it is remotely stimulatory, and if it isn&#8217;t, I&#8217;m not sure what the point is, other than grabbing for pork.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jon Claerbout</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/03/even-more-on-the-stimulus/comment-page-1/#comment-62453</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Claerbout</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 03:10:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/03/even-more-on-the-stimulus/#comment-62453</guid>
		<description>Stimulus?   Inject liquidity with interest-free loans to tax payers in proportion to the taxes they have already paid. The silent majority hates it when Washington grabs money from one interest group and passes it to another.

Let the taxpayers decide what to do with their quick new cash, pay off a credit card, pay down the mortgage, save it in a bank, invest it in a market, or spend it in Detroit or in Alabama. OK, somebody might buy some plastic stuff from China. So what? Who needs a &quot;multiplier&quot; for a politically neutral program that can be scaled up fast?

JK Galbraith&#039;s chart on Mo Jones is politically motivated.  Macroeconomics has no predictive powers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stimulus?   Inject liquidity with interest-free loans to tax payers in proportion to the taxes they have already paid. The silent majority hates it when Washington grabs money from one interest group and passes it to another.</p>
<p>Let the taxpayers decide what to do with their quick new cash, pay off a credit card, pay down the mortgage, save it in a bank, invest it in a market, or spend it in Detroit or in Alabama. OK, somebody might buy some plastic stuff from China. So what? Who needs a &#8220;multiplier&#8221; for a politically neutral program that can be scaled up fast?</p>
<p>JK Galbraith&#8217;s chart on Mo Jones is politically motivated.  Macroeconomics has no predictive powers.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Interested</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/03/even-more-on-the-stimulus/comment-page-1/#comment-62450</link>
		<dc:creator>Interested</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 02:37:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/03/even-more-on-the-stimulus/#comment-62450</guid>
		<description>errata &quot;SBA not SMA&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>errata &#8220;SBA not SMA&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/03/even-more-on-the-stimulus/comment-page-1/#comment-62449</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 02:37:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/03/even-more-on-the-stimulus/#comment-62449</guid>
		<description>Hey Anonymous Snowboarder: just how big should the stimulus be?  Doing nothing is pretty scary: http://www.economy.com/mark-zandi/default.asp?src=economy_homepage</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Anonymous Snowboarder: just how big should the stimulus be?  Doing nothing is pretty scary: <a href="http://www.economy.com/mark-zandi/default.asp?src=economy_homepage" rel="nofollow">http://www.economy.com/mark-zandi/default.asp?src=economy_homepage</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/03/even-more-on-the-stimulus/comment-page-1/#comment-62448</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 02:35:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/03/even-more-on-the-stimulus/#comment-62448</guid>
		<description>Very true, Peter - amidst all this we are still operating under a continuing resolution which set the spending level at last year&#039;s.  The stimulus is over and above whatever Congress decides to spend in the usual 13 bills...or an omnibus as we had last year...which *could* cut funding, perversely.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very true, Peter &#8211; amidst all this we are still operating under a continuing resolution which set the spending level at last year&#8217;s.  The stimulus is over and above whatever Congress decides to spend in the usual 13 bills&#8230;or an omnibus as we had last year&#8230;which *could* cut funding, perversely.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Interested</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/03/even-more-on-the-stimulus/comment-page-1/#comment-62447</link>
		<dc:creator>Interested</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 02:35:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/03/even-more-on-the-stimulus/#comment-62447</guid>
		<description>I do not know nor have I determined what is the budget for US Dept of Small Business Administration. But free or low fee 1-2 hours business classes run by Small Business Administration Entrepreneur Center [SMA Entrepreneur Center] foster the growth of small businesses, the mom and pop business and are a backbone of the economy. In good times and in tough times, small businesses are a backbone and key component of the economy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do not know nor have I determined what is the budget for US Dept of Small Business Administration. But free or low fee 1-2 hours business classes run by Small Business Administration Entrepreneur Center [SMA Entrepreneur Center] foster the growth of small businesses, the mom and pop business and are a backbone of the economy. In good times and in tough times, small businesses are a backbone and key component of the economy.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

<!-- Performance optimized by W3 Total Cache. Learn more: http://www.w3-edge.com/wordpress-plugins/

Minified using disk
Page Caching using disk

Served from: blogs.discovermagazine.com @ 2012-02-14 16:54:13 -->
