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	<title>Comments on: Big Surprises</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/06/big-surprises/</link>
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		<title>By: The ID Arts Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Intelligent design of the universe as possible science finding</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/06/big-surprises/#comment-49656</link>
		<dc:creator>The ID Arts Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Intelligent design of the universe as possible science finding</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Feb 2009 19:15:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/06/big-surprises/#comment-49656</guid>
		<description>[...] friend writes to say about this post at Discover Magazine&#8217;s blog, &#8220;Big Surprises,&#8221;: This intriguing blog post [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] friend writes to say about this post at Discover Magazine&#8217;s blog, &#8220;Big Surprises,&#8221;: This intriguing blog post [...] </p>
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		<title>By: Ahmed</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/06/big-surprises/#comment-49655</link>
		<dc:creator>Ahmed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Feb 2009 05:37:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/06/big-surprises/#comment-49655</guid>
		<description>&quot;Surprise&quot; and discovery are essentially the same thing, since you really haven&#039;t learned anything new if your state of info has come in accordance with your knowledge base beforehand. That&#039;s why the biggest discoveries were the most surprising ones - QM (uncertainty in the universe), chaos (and its consequences), the invariance of the speed of light, the relationship between &#039;light&#039; and &#039;matter&#039;, and the non-euclidean fabric of space-time. They are all Holy Crap type of things. The human mind did not evolve to fathom these things about the world.

However, since you said &#039;about the universe&#039; and not about physics, I would be tempted to look at mathematical side too. Math is supposedly axiomatic, so there is nothing more surprising than discovering something completely shocking and unbelievable and horrendous in a system of thought you put down *yourself*. And of course Godel sits near the top in that realm. Logic itself is inconsistent, i.e, illogical, or incomplete. Which is possibly harder to swallow. That discovery goes beyond surprise IMHO. It goes against not just what we thought but how we thought (and continue to think). We&#039;re still doing science logically, using notions of causation and such, even though it is potentially a dead end. We have no other options, unless I am mistaken. That&#039;s pretty damn surprising and downright scary to anyone new to science.

Future surprises: let someone link the coupling of information and thermodynamics with either QM or fundamental mathematical logic, or both. I think I&#039;d be spilling beers over that for a very long time . And speaking of time.. never mind :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Surprise&#8221; and discovery are essentially the same thing, since you really haven&#8217;t learned anything new if your state of info has come in accordance with your knowledge base beforehand. That&#8217;s why the biggest discoveries were the most surprising ones &#8211; QM (uncertainty in the universe), chaos (and its consequences), the invariance of the speed of light, the relationship between &#8216;light&#8217; and &#8216;matter&#8217;, and the non-euclidean fabric of space-time. They are all Holy Crap type of things. The human mind did not evolve to fathom these things about the world.</p>
<p>However, since you said &#8216;about the universe&#8217; and not about physics, I would be tempted to look at mathematical side too. Math is supposedly axiomatic, so there is nothing more surprising than discovering something completely shocking and unbelievable and horrendous in a system of thought you put down *yourself*. And of course Godel sits near the top in that realm. Logic itself is inconsistent, i.e, illogical, or incomplete. Which is possibly harder to swallow. That discovery goes beyond surprise IMHO. It goes against not just what we thought but how we thought (and continue to think). We&#8217;re still doing science logically, using notions of causation and such, even though it is potentially a dead end. We have no other options, unless I am mistaken. That&#8217;s pretty damn surprising and downright scary to anyone new to science.</p>
<p>Future surprises: let someone link the coupling of information and thermodynamics with either QM or fundamental mathematical logic, or both. I think I&#8217;d be spilling beers over that for a very long time . And speaking of time.. never mind <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Sürprizler.. &#171; no dry light</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/06/big-surprises/#comment-49654</link>
		<dc:creator>Sürprizler.. &#171; no dry light</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Feb 2009 18:42:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/06/big-surprises/#comment-49654</guid>
		<description>[...] Variance&#8216;dan Sean Carroll&#8217;ın (ki hastasıyım, takip ediniz) ilave bir sorusu var. &#8220;Peki bizler, şu anki bilgilerimiz ışığında, gelecekte en çok ne olursa [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Variance&#8216;dan Sean Carroll&#8217;ın (ki hastasıyım, takip ediniz) ilave bir sorusu var. &#8220;Peki bizler, şu anki bilgilerimiz ışığında, gelecekte en çok ne olursa [...] </p>
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		<title>By: Joel</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/06/big-surprises/#comment-49653</link>
		<dc:creator>Joel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Feb 2009 07:18:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/06/big-surprises/#comment-49653</guid>
		<description>Ok, Ok... most surprising thing so far?  Got to be quantum mechanics.

Now, most surprising things that might turn out to be true?  My list is, ahem, unsurprising:

1.  That consciousness isn&#039;t necessarily tied to our physical brains and can be transferred and preserved to facilitate immortality.

2.  That intelligent life on earth is unique in the universe.

3.  That intelligent life on earth isn&#039;t unique in the universe and its evidence turns out to be nearly ubiquitous, once we have the ability to properly look for it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok, Ok&#8230; most surprising thing so far?  Got to be quantum mechanics.</p>
<p>Now, most surprising things that might turn out to be true?  My list is, ahem, unsurprising:</p>
<p>1.  That consciousness isn&#8217;t necessarily tied to our physical brains and can be transferred and preserved to facilitate immortality.</p>
<p>2.  That intelligent life on earth is unique in the universe.</p>
<p>3.  That intelligent life on earth isn&#8217;t unique in the universe and its evidence turns out to be nearly ubiquitous, once we have the ability to properly look for it.</p>
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		<title>By: Surpresas &#171; Ars Physica</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/06/big-surprises/#comment-49652</link>
		<dc:creator>Surpresas &#171; Ars Physica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Feb 2009 14:13:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/06/big-surprises/#comment-49652</guid>
		<description>[...] a comment &#187;  Uns dias atrás em um post do blog Cosmic Variance o Sean Carroll estava se perguntando sobre  grandes surpresa na ciência.  Entre perguntas sobre [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] a comment &raquo;  Uns dias atrás em um post do blog Cosmic Variance o Sean Carroll estava se perguntando sobre  grandes surpresa na ciência.  Entre perguntas sobre [...] </p>
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		<title>By: Rafael S. Calsaverini</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/06/big-surprises/#comment-49651</link>
		<dc:creator>Rafael S. Calsaverini</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Feb 2009 13:13:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/06/big-surprises/#comment-49651</guid>
		<description>[cite] But it wouldn’t change the world in a short time scale (like quantum mechanics did). [/cite]

I probably should have said:

like the atomic hypothesis, together with the understanding of the microscopic quantum mechanical structure of matter did.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[cite] But it wouldn’t change the world in a short time scale (like quantum mechanics did). [/cite]</p>
<p>I probably should have said:</p>
<p>like the atomic hypothesis, together with the understanding of the microscopic quantum mechanical structure of matter did.</p>
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		<title>By: Rafael S. Calsaverini</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/06/big-surprises/#comment-49650</link>
		<dc:creator>Rafael S. Calsaverini</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Feb 2009 13:10:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/06/big-surprises/#comment-49650</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t what it would be, but I&#039;m pretty sure it won&#039;t come from high-energy physics. There are enough fancy weird things we know about quantum fields and tiny particles.  Even if we find weirder physics in this scale, it would only shock those few who understand how weird it is, and why it is unexpected.

If we find out that there ain&#039;t no Higgs particle and spontaneous symmetry breaking is not enough to explain a big deal of the microphysics it would of course be a surprise to many (not all...) physicists. But it wouldn&#039;t change the world in a short time scale (like quantum mechanics did).

The next great big surprise will come, in my opinion, from neuroscience. And it&#039;s already happening: we are finding out that it&#039;s not that hard to interface the brain with electronics, we are now able to make neural circuits with (very simple) specific purposes, etc, etc.

What we now know is that there is a reasonable probability that in a few decades the next technological leap could be related to the use our brains to directly control electronic machines. This was unthinkable science-fiction garbage 15 years ago. It would be a really great surprise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t what it would be, but I&#8217;m pretty sure it won&#8217;t come from high-energy physics. There are enough fancy weird things we know about quantum fields and tiny particles.  Even if we find weirder physics in this scale, it would only shock those few who understand how weird it is, and why it is unexpected.</p>
<p>If we find out that there ain&#8217;t no Higgs particle and spontaneous symmetry breaking is not enough to explain a big deal of the microphysics it would of course be a surprise to many (not all&#8230;) physicists. But it wouldn&#8217;t change the world in a short time scale (like quantum mechanics did).</p>
<p>The next great big surprise will come, in my opinion, from neuroscience. And it&#8217;s already happening: we are finding out that it&#8217;s not that hard to interface the brain with electronics, we are now able to make neural circuits with (very simple) specific purposes, etc, etc.</p>
<p>What we now know is that there is a reasonable probability that in a few decades the next technological leap could be related to the use our brains to directly control electronic machines. This was unthinkable science-fiction garbage 15 years ago. It would be a really great surprise.</p>
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		<title>By: Louis Archuleta</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/06/big-surprises/#comment-49649</link>
		<dc:creator>Louis Archuleta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Feb 2009 23:30:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/06/big-surprises/#comment-49649</guid>
		<description>The item that will surprise modern physics is that the present concept of time is not correct.  It will be found that time is really composed of three distinct dimensions and that time really passes from the future to the past.  This discovery will also change General Relativity by revising the notion of inertia being not tied to the gravitational field and being a function of the future dimension (FT) providing the extra energy that inertia requires, and that the inertial energy passes thru the present time [Time Now, TN] (which contains all of our physical universe) into the past dimension (TP).  The past dimension TP is a closed dimension embedded in our present time dimension TN which expands due to the extra energy passing from the future time dimension (dark energy).  Tachyons act as messinger particles from TN to TF, which orders the zero point energy (which is in the future time dimension) and allow a modified Wheeler Many Worlds scenerio in which there is only one &quot;real&quot; world at TN creating future worldlines which obey quantum mechanics in TF.  The Time Now (TN) dimension is expanding as a consquence of the Big Bang pushing into the Future Time (TF) dimension.  There are way too many ideas that are generated by having distinct time dimensions and time passing to add to this short discussion.  By observation, time does pass, it does not run backward, static (block time) violates causuality and the Uncertainy Principle.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The item that will surprise modern physics is that the present concept of time is not correct.  It will be found that time is really composed of three distinct dimensions and that time really passes from the future to the past.  This discovery will also change General Relativity by revising the notion of inertia being not tied to the gravitational field and being a function of the future dimension (FT) providing the extra energy that inertia requires, and that the inertial energy passes thru the present time [Time Now, TN] (which contains all of our physical universe) into the past dimension (TP).  The past dimension TP is a closed dimension embedded in our present time dimension TN which expands due to the extra energy passing from the future time dimension (dark energy).  Tachyons act as messinger particles from TN to TF, which orders the zero point energy (which is in the future time dimension) and allow a modified Wheeler Many Worlds scenerio in which there is only one &#8220;real&#8221; world at TN creating future worldlines which obey quantum mechanics in TF.  The Time Now (TN) dimension is expanding as a consquence of the Big Bang pushing into the Future Time (TF) dimension.  There are way too many ideas that are generated by having distinct time dimensions and time passing to add to this short discussion.  By observation, time does pass, it does not run backward, static (block time) violates causuality and the Uncertainy Principle.</p>
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		<title>By: Lab Lemming</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/06/big-surprises/#comment-49648</link>
		<dc:creator>Lab Lemming</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Feb 2009 09:33:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/06/big-surprises/#comment-49648</guid>
		<description>Carl,
I think quantum mechanics predates the digital revolution by a fair ways.  But Analog gravity and digital everything else would be cool.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Carl,<br />
I think quantum mechanics predates the digital revolution by a fair ways.  But Analog gravity and digital everything else would be cool.</p>
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		<title>By: Gavin Flower</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/06/big-surprises/#comment-49647</link>
		<dc:creator>Gavin Flower</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Feb 2009 23:24:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/06/big-surprises/#comment-49647</guid>
		<description>&gt;&gt;&gt; made some obvious grammatical corrections &lt;&lt;&lt;

Once you stop taking our existence for granted,
I think the most surprising thing is that anything EXISTS at all!

I now think of the Universe as a closed multidimensional (including one or more “time like” dimensions) system, that no more has a start point than does a sphere in 3 dimensional space.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;&gt;&gt; made some obvious grammatical corrections &lt;&lt;&lt;</p>
<p>Once you stop taking our existence for granted,<br />
I think the most surprising thing is that anything EXISTS at all!</p>
<p>I now think of the Universe as a closed multidimensional (including one or more “time like” dimensions) system, that no more has a start point than does a sphere in 3 dimensional space.</p>
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