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	<title>Comments on: The Race for the Higgs</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/17/the-race-for-the-higgs/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/17/the-race-for-the-higgs/</link>
	<description>Random samplings from a universe of ideas.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 14 Feb 2012 12:59:54 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Endgame for the Tevatron &#124; Cosmic Variance &#124; Discover Magazine</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/17/the-race-for-the-higgs/comment-page-1/#comment-97171</link>
		<dc:creator>Endgame for the Tevatron &#124; Cosmic Variance &#124; Discover Magazine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Sep 2009 19:34:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/17/the-race-for-the-higgs/#comment-97171</guid>
		<description>[...] experiments, a standard model Higgs boson might be seen at the three standard deviation level, but almost certainly not the five standard deviation level, which is the gold standard in the field. The LHC won&#8217;t be [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] experiments, a standard model Higgs boson might be seen at the three standard deviation level, but almost certainly not the five standard deviation level, which is the gold standard in the field. The LHC won&#8217;t be [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Sili</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/17/the-race-for-the-higgs/comment-page-1/#comment-63784</link>
		<dc:creator>Sili</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 21:20:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/17/the-race-for-the-higgs/#comment-63784</guid>
		<description>Yeah - it&#039;s the &lt;em&gt;Goddamn&lt;/em&gt; particle. Get it right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah &#8211; it&#8217;s the <em>Goddamn</em> particle. Get it right.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: changcho</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/17/the-race-for-the-higgs/comment-page-1/#comment-63775</link>
		<dc:creator>changcho</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 20:28:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/17/the-race-for-the-higgs/#comment-63775</guid>
		<description>Doesn&#039;t matter who finds it first (but do find it!):  but please, stop calling this thing the &#039;god&#039; particle - what a stupid nickname.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doesn&#8217;t matter who finds it first (but do find it!):  but please, stop calling this thing the &#8216;god&#8217; particle &#8211; what a stupid nickname.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Wie wint de Higgsrace: de VS of Europa?bijAstroblogs</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/17/the-race-for-the-higgs/comment-page-1/#comment-63772</link>
		<dc:creator>Wie wint de Higgsrace: de VS of Europa?bijAstroblogs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 20:11:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/17/the-race-for-the-higgs/#comment-63772</guid>
		<description>[...] De 3σ-aanwijzingen Dè zoektocht van de hedendaagse natuurkundige is naar het Higg-sdeeltje, het in 1964 door de Engelsman Peter Higgs bedachte &#8216;God-deeltje&#8216; dat zou verklaren waarom elementaire deeltjes (waar de sterren, planeten en andere dingen zoals jij en ik uit bestaan) massa hebben. Het vinden van het Higgs-deeltje is de heilige graal van de natuurkundige, een gegarandeerde ticket voor de Nobelprijs voor Natuurkunde. In Europa is de Large Hadron Collider (LHC) gebouwd met als voornaamste doel om dat Higgs-deeltje te ontdekken. Dat zes miljard kostende apparaat is echter vorig jaar september kort na de start kaduuk gegaan en de verwachting is dat &#8216;ie pas ergens in september dit jaar opnieuw kan beginnen. Of dat snel genoeg is dat is de vraag, want onlangs bleek op een bijeenkomst van de AAAS1 in Chicago dat natuurkundigen van de Tevatron-deeltjesversneller, onderdeel van het wereldberoemde Fermilab óók in Chicago, een schatting hebben gemaakt van de kans dat ze dit jaar aanwijzingen2 vinden voor het bestaan van het Higgs-deeltje.  Men praat over zogenaamde 3σ-aanwijzingen (drie-sigma) en hoe groot die zijn hangt af van de massa van het Higgs-deeltje. Indien het Higgs-deeltje een massa van 170 GeV/c2 heeft dan zou de kans op die aanwijzingen met de Tevatron in 2011 bijna 100% zijn (zie grafiek hierboven). De kans dat de Tevatron dit jaar al die 3σ-aanwijzingen vindt is ook behoorlijk: zo&#8217;n 65%. Bij minder massa van het Higgs-boson neemt de kans voor de Amerikaanse natuurkundigen behoorlijk af. Kortom, de vraag is wie deze Higgsrace gaat winnen: de Verenigde Staten of Europa? De weddenschappen zijn geopend.  Bron: Cosmic Variance. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] De 3σ-aanwijzingen Dè zoektocht van de hedendaagse natuurkundige is naar het Higg-sdeeltje, het in 1964 door de Engelsman Peter Higgs bedachte &#8216;God-deeltje&#8216; dat zou verklaren waarom elementaire deeltjes (waar de sterren, planeten en andere dingen zoals jij en ik uit bestaan) massa hebben. Het vinden van het Higgs-deeltje is de heilige graal van de natuurkundige, een gegarandeerde ticket voor de Nobelprijs voor Natuurkunde. In Europa is de Large Hadron Collider (LHC) gebouwd met als voornaamste doel om dat Higgs-deeltje te ontdekken. Dat zes miljard kostende apparaat is echter vorig jaar september kort na de start kaduuk gegaan en de verwachting is dat &#8216;ie pas ergens in september dit jaar opnieuw kan beginnen. Of dat snel genoeg is dat is de vraag, want onlangs bleek op een bijeenkomst van de AAAS1 in Chicago dat natuurkundigen van de Tevatron-deeltjesversneller, onderdeel van het wereldberoemde Fermilab óók in Chicago, een schatting hebben gemaakt van de kans dat ze dit jaar aanwijzingen2 vinden voor het bestaan van het Higgs-deeltje.  Men praat over zogenaamde 3σ-aanwijzingen (drie-sigma) en hoe groot die zijn hangt af van de massa van het Higgs-deeltje. Indien het Higgs-deeltje een massa van 170 GeV/c2 heeft dan zou de kans op die aanwijzingen met de Tevatron in 2011 bijna 100% zijn (zie grafiek hierboven). De kans dat de Tevatron dit jaar al die 3σ-aanwijzingen vindt is ook behoorlijk: zo&#8217;n 65%. Bij minder massa van het Higgs-boson neemt de kans voor de Amerikaanse natuurkundigen behoorlijk af. Kortom, de vraag is wie deze Higgsrace gaat winnen: de Verenigde Staten of Europa? De weddenschappen zijn geopend.  Bron: Cosmic Variance. [...]</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: MedallionOfFerrit</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/17/the-race-for-the-higgs/comment-page-1/#comment-63766</link>
		<dc:creator>MedallionOfFerrit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 19:07:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/17/the-race-for-the-higgs/#comment-63766</guid>
		<description>Reginald!  It was there, under the left-most cushion!  How do you want to be credited in the paper?  You theoreticians are so useful to us experimentalists.  See you in Oslo!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reginald!  It was there, under the left-most cushion!  How do you want to be credited in the paper?  You theoreticians are so useful to us experimentalists.  See you in Oslo!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/17/the-race-for-the-higgs/comment-page-1/#comment-63763</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 18:56:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/17/the-race-for-the-higgs/#comment-63763</guid>
		<description>BREAKING NEWS: http://www.thespoof.com/news/spoof.cfm?headline=s5i48146</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BREAKING NEWS: <a href="http://www.thespoof.com/news/spoof.cfm?headline=s5i48146" rel="nofollow">http://www.thespoof.com/news/spoof.cfm?headline=s5i48146</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Reginald Selkirk</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/17/the-race-for-the-higgs/comment-page-1/#comment-63750</link>
		<dc:creator>Reginald Selkirk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 16:55:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/17/the-race-for-the-higgs/#comment-63750</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll bet if everyone on the planet checked under their sofa cushions today, the Higgs would turn up somewhere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll bet if everyone on the planet checked under their sofa cushions today, the Higgs would turn up somewhere.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: existential mime</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/17/the-race-for-the-higgs/comment-page-1/#comment-63740</link>
		<dc:creator>existential mime</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 15:29:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/17/the-race-for-the-higgs/#comment-63740</guid>
		<description>Count Iblis Says:
&quot;If Fermilab and the LHC both have 4 sigma evidence then combined they’ll have more than 5 sigma evidence which would count as a discovery.&quot;

Even with the most optimistic assumptions, the combined CDF/DO data set has projected a no more than 50% chance of seeing even a THREE sigma anomaly in the region most favoured by the electroweak radiative correction fits (ie. not much above the direct LEP limit, and where LEP itself has already seen an &quot;indication&quot; at just under 3 sigma).  When ATLAS and CMS have between them a solid five sigma discovery to announce, then the papers will come out  [I&#039;m willing to bet that you can count on CERN management to enforce this much self-discipline},  and then we&#039;ll know.

Is it really worth spending many tens of millions of dollars to add the Tevatron to LEP on the list of &quot;indication but not able to really say anything definite&quot; accelerators that were unable to either discover or definitively rule out the Higgs, or would that money be better spent planning and preparing a future for Fermilab that lasts longer than the next two years?  I see this recent round of Fermilab publicity as more an admission of real concern about the prospects for &quot;Project X&quot;, than as useful information concerning prospects for an actual Higgs discovery.

P.S. There are a hell of a lot of americans working on ATLAS and CMS. In fact there are more american CERN users than there are of any other nationality. So the Higgs discovery will in a very real sense be an &quot;american discovery&quot; (shared with other nations), even though it will almost certainly actually occur at CERN.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Count Iblis Says:<br />
&#8220;If Fermilab and the LHC both have 4 sigma evidence then combined they’ll have more than 5 sigma evidence which would count as a discovery.&#8221;</p>
<p>Even with the most optimistic assumptions, the combined CDF/DO data set has projected a no more than 50% chance of seeing even a THREE sigma anomaly in the region most favoured by the electroweak radiative correction fits (ie. not much above the direct LEP limit, and where LEP itself has already seen an &#8220;indication&#8221; at just under 3 sigma).  When ATLAS and CMS have between them a solid five sigma discovery to announce, then the papers will come out  [I&#8217;m willing to bet that you can count on CERN management to enforce this much self-discipline},  and then we&#8217;ll know.</p>
<p>Is it really worth spending many tens of millions of dollars to add the Tevatron to LEP on the list of &#8220;indication but not able to really say anything definite&#8221; accelerators that were unable to either discover or definitively rule out the Higgs, or would that money be better spent planning and preparing a future for Fermilab that lasts longer than the next two years?  I see this recent round of Fermilab publicity as more an admission of real concern about the prospects for &#8220;Project X&#8221;, than as useful information concerning prospects for an actual Higgs discovery.</p>
<p>P.S. There are a hell of a lot of americans working on ATLAS and CMS. In fact there are more american CERN users than there are of any other nationality. So the Higgs discovery will in a very real sense be an &#8220;american discovery&#8221; (shared with other nations), even though it will almost certainly actually occur at CERN.</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Count Iblis</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/17/the-race-for-the-higgs/comment-page-1/#comment-63733</link>
		<dc:creator>Count Iblis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 12:51:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/17/the-race-for-the-higgs/#comment-63733</guid>
		<description>If Fermilab and the LHC both have 4 sigma evidence then combined they&#039;ll have more than 5 sigma evidence which would count as a discovery.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If Fermilab and the LHC both have 4 sigma evidence then combined they&#8217;ll have more than 5 sigma evidence which would count as a discovery.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: graviton383</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/17/the-race-for-the-higgs/comment-page-1/#comment-63727</link>
		<dc:creator>graviton383</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 10:30:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/17/the-race-for-the-higgs/#comment-63727</guid>
		<description>For a discovery, 5 sigma is the usual requirement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For a discovery, 5 sigma is the usual requirement.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: brian.mingus@colorado.edu</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/17/the-race-for-the-higgs/comment-page-1/#comment-63725</link>
		<dc:creator>brian.mingus@colorado.edu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 10:02:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/17/the-race-for-the-higgs/#comment-63725</guid>
		<description>Oh, silly me for not recognizing that gigaelectron volts over the speed of light squared is equal to kilograms!

http://www.google.com/search?q=140+GeV/c^2</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, silly me for not recognizing that gigaelectron volts over the speed of light squared is equal to kilograms!</p>
<p><a href="http://www.google.com/search?q=140+GeV/c" rel="nofollow">http://www.google.com/search?q=140+GeV/c</a>^2</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: per</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/17/the-race-for-the-higgs/comment-page-1/#comment-63722</link>
		<dc:creator>per</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 09:43:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/17/the-race-for-the-higgs/#comment-63722</guid>
		<description>Hi Sean,

So 3\sigma is considered evidence for? What is considered as a discovery?

Thanks for the blog, P</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Sean,</p>
<p>So 3\sigma is considered evidence for? What is considered as a discovery?</p>
<p>Thanks for the blog, P</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Martin</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/17/the-race-for-the-higgs/comment-page-1/#comment-63721</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 08:32:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/17/the-race-for-the-higgs/#comment-63721</guid>
		<description>Brian: the x-axis of that plot does not show what energy they are working at, but rather what the (unknown) mass of the Higgs is. Assuming we are restricted to only one Higgs and only one universe, they don&#039;t have an option to skip parts of the plot...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brian: the x-axis of that plot does not show what energy they are working at, but rather what the (unknown) mass of the Higgs is. Assuming we are restricted to only one Higgs and only one universe, they don&#8217;t have an option to skip parts of the plot&#8230;</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Brian Mingus</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/17/the-race-for-the-higgs/comment-page-1/#comment-63717</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Mingus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 07:33:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/17/the-race-for-the-higgs/#comment-63717</guid>
		<description>A person that wanted to win a race would skip $latex 120-150 GeV/^2$ and come back to it later if necessary, no?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A person that wanted to win a race would skip $latex 120-150 GeV/^2$ and come back to it later if necessary, no?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Sean</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/17/the-race-for-the-higgs/comment-page-1/#comment-63706</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 04:20:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/17/the-race-for-the-higgs/#comment-63706</guid>
		<description>erik, that&#039;s just the chance they would have had of doing that well, if LEP hadn&#039;t already excluded that region.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>erik, that&#8217;s just the chance they would have had of doing that well, if LEP hadn&#8217;t already excluded that region.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: erik</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/17/the-race-for-the-higgs/comment-page-1/#comment-63702</link>
		<dc:creator>erik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 03:22:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/17/the-race-for-the-higgs/#comment-63702</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t quite get how the probabilities are calculated... How do you get a 70% probability of \textit{evidence} inside the LEP \textit{exclusion} zone?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t quite get how the probabilities are calculated&#8230; How do you get a 70% probability of \textit{evidence} inside the LEP \textit{exclusion} zone?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Blog Fame, Higgs Bosons, Economic well being and other topics &#171; blueollie</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/17/the-race-for-the-higgs/comment-page-1/#comment-63698</link>
		<dc:creator>Blog Fame, Higgs Bosons, Economic well being and other topics &#171; blueollie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 02:22:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/17/the-race-for-the-higgs/#comment-63698</guid>
		<description>[...] Science. The race for the discovery of the Higgs Boson is on this year; read this article in Cosmic Variance to find out about it. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Science. The race for the discovery of the Higgs Boson is on this year; read this article in Cosmic Variance to find out about it. [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: TimG</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/17/the-race-for-the-higgs/comment-page-1/#comment-63697</link>
		<dc:creator>TimG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 01:26:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/17/the-race-for-the-higgs/#comment-63697</guid>
		<description>By the way, is it possible to create this sort of plot for the probability of the &lt;emph&gt;LHC&lt;/emph&gt; finding the Higgs over some specific time frame?  (I know everyone expects the Higgs will show up sooner or later.)  If so, has anyone done it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By the way, is it possible to create this sort of plot for the probability of the <emph>LHC</emph> finding the Higgs over some specific time frame?  (I know everyone expects the Higgs will show up sooner or later.)  If so, has anyone done it?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: TimG</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/17/the-race-for-the-higgs/comment-page-1/#comment-63690</link>
		<dc:creator>TimG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 00:29:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/17/the-race-for-the-higgs/#comment-63690</guid>
		<description>The webcomic Abstruse Goose has a &lt;a href=&#039;http://abstrusegoose.com/118&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;message for the Higgs boson&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The webcomic Abstruse Goose has a <a href='http://abstrusegoose.com/118' rel="nofollow">message for the Higgs boson</a>.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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