What earth resources do you think that an advanced species would want? If they have interstellar travel capabilities, it’s very likely that they have no need for our primitive forms of electricity generation. For example, they might need fresh water (see V , but they could easily desalinize sea water. I can’t see them being all that impressed by our natural resources; we would probably have a far greater interest in their technology. What elements and compounds are easily found on earth that are rare in the rest of the universe?

They might be very interested in our creative output. They might be entertained by CV, impressed by paintings, enjoy the pulses of air pressure that we call music.

They might find earth organisms very interesting, though I would imagine them to have very advanced genetic engineering, and look upon our genes like a primitive living museum.

“In his book “Are We Alone?” Paul Davies points out that if ETI is found, then the Darwinian model of evolution is false and some sort of purposeful entity (God?) is driving the evolution of the universe.”

What?? How does the presence of other beings in the Universe mean that some supposedly higher power made everything? Please elaborate, if you can.

My only gateway onto the Net is very expensive. Is it true
that humans have six legs?

The paper is an extension of the Drake equation, moving away from the steady state equilibrium picture of the equation by means of Monte Carlo simulation, and incorporating more of what we actually know. To a non-astronomer, the paper looks good. It’s plausible that the predicted numbers of ETs lie in a very wide range from a few hundred in our galaxy to almost a million, depending on assumptions. I think this means a rational person assumes there are some, perhaps many, ETs out there.

The Fermi paradox is more of a problem on the high end of the estimate. Otherwise, the ETs are too far away to find or communicate with, unless they send out many probes (it was this travel idea that motivated Fermi – ‘Where are they?’ means, ‘Why not in my corner bar?’).

Questions of motive or appearance are not terribly relevant to the discussion. If even slow interstellar travel is possible, the only real question is whether it is adaptive in the Darwinian sense. My sense is that, if it is at all possible either to have a self-sustaining economy in outer space, or to terraform planets, then interstellar travel is indeed highly adaptive because those societies that practice it will reproduce much faster than those that don’t. I should think that’s fairly clear. That is, the interstellar probes don’t cost their parents much, and create self-sustaining children. Not everybody in the parent society has to care much or even approve.

But if that’s clear, then the Fermi paradox comes back, with force. Then, the rational assumption is that we are right on the cusp of all this stuff happening – we are among the first, perhaps the first, ET in a rather large volume.

Regards,
Mike Gogins

I also can’t help but be amused by the idea that any aliens that do visit the earth tend to be seen as doing so on the behalf of their giovernments or worlds – like in an official capacity. Could be just a coulple of bums that arrive in no offficial capacity whatsoever.

1) Technologically advanced aliens exist somewhere in our galaxy
2) Their civilization has a lifespan of at least 10′s of thousands of years
3) They have some interest in non-sentient and sentient life
4) Slow interstellar travel (<0.5) is technically possible

Then it’s completely plausible that probes are in our solar system and have been for a very long time. Living worlds are detectable by telescope across the galaxy; earth’s photosynthetic signature has been visible for billions of years. A program of mass-production of long-lived sublight probes is foreseeable even with our level of technology. If AI is possible, it’s reasonable to assume the probe would be an AI.

If you believe ET’s are somewhere in the milky way, at least one should have a probe in our system. The fact that UFO buffs are all flakey and have cheezy imaginations, doesn’t mean there is no presence. If there are any ETs, then quiet, old, non-interfering probes are a possibility. The fermi paradox is a very real puzzle.

http://www.simulation-argument.com/brueckner.pdf

“The simulation argument purports to show, given some plausible assumptions, that at 
least one of three propositions is true. 2   Roughly stated, these propositions are: (1) almost 
all civilizations at our current level of development go extinct before reaching 
technological maturity; (2) there is a strong convergence among technologically mature 
civilizations such that almost all of them lose interest in creating ancestor‐simulations; (3) 
almost all people with our sorts of experiences live in computer simulations.  I also argue 
(#) that conditional on (3) you should assign a very high credence to the proposition that 
you live in a computer simulation.  However, pace Brueckner, I do not argue that we 
should believe that we are in simulation. 3   In fact, I believe that we are probably not 
simulated.  The simulation argument purports to show only that, as well as (#), at least 
one of (1) ‐ (3) is true; but it does not tell us which one.”

A distillation of some ideas/reasoning that was in his Phd thesis at the LSE.

We should strongly hope that we do not find life elsewhere. To simplify his argument, if we find life on Mars or Europa, that would mean life is relatively widespread, and the ‘Great Filter’ that has resulted in our NOT being contacted by extraterrestrials lies ahead of us.

Maybe they can slip into a body, as easy as you can slip out? Some fictional story perhaps about the encumbrance of the suit being so heavy it makes for some forgetfulness about ones origins, and slows the thinking? If it can happen to us, then why not them?:) You pay a price.

If so advanced then, why can they not mask their appearance within the confines of ones own human experience and allow you to go on your way?:)

Best,

Not true at all.

It seems very likely to me, almost inevitable in fact, that sooner or later all remaining humans/robots will “fly the nest” and leave the solar system at the same time and embark on synchronized “sallies” for want of a better word, reconvening every couple of centuries to exchange notes on all the planets they have fanned out in their journeys to explore.

In fact, I maintain that is why we haven’t, and are unlikely to, detect alien EM signals – They spend most of their time tucked up in cryogenic chambers in large interstellar space ships travelling at 0.99c to their next stop-off to explore and to their next rendezvous.

Why need they signal, when they know they will rejoin the rest of their kind in due course and an EM signal will hardly only shortly precede their arrival?

——–
She eloquently points out the fact that swirls of gas and dust have collapsed and developed into a form which is aware of itself and wonders where it comes from, and whether it’s alone.
——–

A pointer to some more details?

thank you