<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Apparently Astronomy is Un-American</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/27/apparently-astronomy-is-un-american/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/27/apparently-astronomy-is-un-american/</link>
	<description>Random samplings from a universe of ideas.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 16:24:41 -0600</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Risk-averse science funding? at Ted Bunn&#8217;s Blog</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/27/apparently-astronomy-is-un-american/comment-page-1/#comment-80618</link>
		<dc:creator>Risk-averse science funding? at Ted Bunn&#8217;s Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2009 23:16:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/27/apparently-astronomy-is-un-american/#comment-80618</guid>
		<description>[...] (and in fact this research in particular).  And it&#8217;s easy to do: Expect John McCain to tweet about this proposal the next time he wants to sneer at the idea of funding science at all.  But in [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] (and in fact this research in particular).  And it&#8217;s easy to do: Expect John McCain to tweet about this proposal the next time he wants to sneer at the idea of funding science at all.  But in [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: AJ</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/27/apparently-astronomy-is-un-american/comment-page-1/#comment-65869</link>
		<dc:creator>AJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Mar 2009 18:41:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/27/apparently-astronomy-is-un-american/#comment-65869</guid>
		<description>It is not clear exactly what is meant by the “promotion of astronomy in Hawaii”. (1) Are we talking about an ad campaign to convince people in Hawaii that astronomy is cool and they should continue to support it with their tax dollars? Or (2) a campaign to convince youngsters that astronomy is cool and they should develop their math/science skills in school so that they can aspire to astro careers? Or (3), does “promotion of astronomy” simply mean more government money for astronomical research?

Without knowing specifically what the money in the bill would be spent on, it seems premature to criticize/ridicule McCain on this. Of course McCain also did a great disservice with his “one liner” that does not explain what the money would be used for or why he finds this objectionable.

I am specifically against (2) because in my own experience astronomy offers such a punishing and insecure career path that I would not want to put anyone else through the career frustration, lost time, and depression that I’ve experienced in graduate school. Yes, astronomy is fascinating, and I believe that our society should continue to support astronomical research at a reasonable level. However, I think we have to be realistic in our expectations; only a very small number of people (few thousand at most) in our country will be able to have long-term full-time jobs in astronomy, and a handful of astronomy/astrophysics graduate programs at the top-tier institutions are fully capable of educating enough astronomers/astrophysicists to fill ALL the jobs available for PhD-level researchers working in this field. The surplus PhDs will be discarded by the research enterprise after a few years and these people will struggle to compete for technical/engineering type jobs that they are overqualified for. Since we are already drowning in engineers (both our own citizens and the foreigners that we bring in to fill the perpetually proclaimed and forever nonexistent science/engineering labor “shortage”), there is no need for engineering firms to look beyond those with engineering degrees when they are searching for employees.

Preparing an excessive number of students for careers in astronomical research is a significant mis-allocation of educational funds and intellectual talent when these bright people could be making valuable contributions in other areas with greater economic benefit to themselves and society.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is not clear exactly what is meant by the “promotion of astronomy in Hawaii”. (1) Are we talking about an ad campaign to convince people in Hawaii that astronomy is cool and they should continue to support it with their tax dollars? Or (2) a campaign to convince youngsters that astronomy is cool and they should develop their math/science skills in school so that they can aspire to astro careers? Or (3), does “promotion of astronomy” simply mean more government money for astronomical research?</p>
<p>Without knowing specifically what the money in the bill would be spent on, it seems premature to criticize/ridicule McCain on this. Of course McCain also did a great disservice with his “one liner” that does not explain what the money would be used for or why he finds this objectionable.</p>
<p>I am specifically against (2) because in my own experience astronomy offers such a punishing and insecure career path that I would not want to put anyone else through the career frustration, lost time, and depression that I’ve experienced in graduate school. Yes, astronomy is fascinating, and I believe that our society should continue to support astronomical research at a reasonable level. However, I think we have to be realistic in our expectations; only a very small number of people (few thousand at most) in our country will be able to have long-term full-time jobs in astronomy, and a handful of astronomy/astrophysics graduate programs at the top-tier institutions are fully capable of educating enough astronomers/astrophysicists to fill ALL the jobs available for PhD-level researchers working in this field. The surplus PhDs will be discarded by the research enterprise after a few years and these people will struggle to compete for technical/engineering type jobs that they are overqualified for. Since we are already drowning in engineers (both our own citizens and the foreigners that we bring in to fill the perpetually proclaimed and forever nonexistent science/engineering labor “shortage”), there is no need for engineering firms to look beyond those with engineering degrees when they are searching for employees.</p>
<p>Preparing an excessive number of students for careers in astronomical research is a significant mis-allocation of educational funds and intellectual talent when these bright people could be making valuable contributions in other areas with greater economic benefit to themselves and society.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Sean</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/27/apparently-astronomy-is-un-american/comment-page-1/#comment-65678</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Mar 2009 07:55:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/27/apparently-astronomy-is-un-american/#comment-65678</guid>
		<description>“A great many telescope projects have been successful examples of international scientific and diplomatic cooperation. Astronomers make critical contributions not only to profound questions in physics and astronomy, but are often drivers of technical advances in a wide range of fields, such as computing, optics and cold-matter physics.”

This is not a compelling argument at all.  It is the old &#039;NASA is worthwhile because of velcro&#039; argument, and nobody rational still believes it.  Yes, there are often unexpected ancillary benefits to wasting money.  That doesn&#039;t mean we should waste our money.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“A great many telescope projects have been successful examples of international scientific and diplomatic cooperation. Astronomers make critical contributions not only to profound questions in physics and astronomy, but are often drivers of technical advances in a wide range of fields, such as computing, optics and cold-matter physics.”</p>
<p>This is not a compelling argument at all.  It is the old &#8216;NASA is worthwhile because of velcro&#8217; argument, and nobody rational still believes it.  Yes, there are often unexpected ancillary benefits to wasting money.  That doesn&#8217;t mean we should waste our money.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Alan McCright</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/27/apparently-astronomy-is-un-american/comment-page-1/#comment-65460</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan McCright</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Mar 2009 00:02:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/27/apparently-astronomy-is-un-american/#comment-65460</guid>
		<description>Anyone interested may view my take on this at:
http://amccright.blogspot.com/2009/03/john-mccain-puts-in-twitter.html

Astronomy and space sciences are important to the economies of both Arizona and Hawaii.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anyone interested may view my take on this at:<br />
<a href="http://amccright.blogspot.com/2009/03/john-mccain-puts-in-twitter.html" rel="nofollow">http://amccright.blogspot.com/2009/03/john-mccain-puts-in-twitter.html</a></p>
<p>Astronomy and space sciences are important to the economies of both Arizona and Hawaii.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Scientists are not You and Me &#124; Cosmic Variance &#124; Discover Magazine</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/27/apparently-astronomy-is-un-american/comment-page-1/#comment-65241</link>
		<dc:creator>Scientists are not You and Me &#124; Cosmic Variance &#124; Discover Magazine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Mar 2009 20:21:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/27/apparently-astronomy-is-un-american/#comment-65241</guid>
		<description>[...] it seems that (influenced by Sean, I&#8217;m sure) Maureen Dowd has picked up on John McCain&#8217;s twitter feed, and has placed yet another mocking stab at science in the mainstream press. (&#8221;Catfish and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] it seems that (influenced by Sean, I&#8217;m sure) Maureen Dowd has picked up on John McCain&#8217;s twitter feed, and has placed yet another mocking stab at science in the mainstream press. (&#8221;Catfish and [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Sam</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/27/apparently-astronomy-is-un-american/comment-page-1/#comment-65161</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Mar 2009 05:01:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/27/apparently-astronomy-is-un-american/#comment-65161</guid>
		<description>And McCain even takes it to the Senate floor ...

See todays &quot;Washington Sketch&quot; by Dana Milbank

&quot;He went after Daniel Inouye (D-Hawaii), the 84-year-old chairman of the Senate Appropriations Committee. &#039;We&#039;re going to spend $2 million for the promotion of astronomy in Hawaii,&#039; McCain said with disgust, glancing at Inouye. &#039;I ask the senator from Hawaii: Why do we need $2 million to promote astronomy in Hawaii when unemployment is going up and the stock market is tanking?&#039; &quot;

Well, it&#039;s pretty clear, as a previous poster noted. We should be spending that $2M to promote it in Arizona!

But really, astronomy has become, for John McCain, a convenient example of earmarking run wild. It&#039;s a tiny  amount, but it&#039;s like Joe the Plumber for the middle class. It&#039;s a triviality, but hugely memorable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And McCain even takes it to the Senate floor &#8230;</p>
<p>See todays &#8220;Washington Sketch&#8221; by Dana Milbank</p>
<p>&#8220;He went after Daniel Inouye (D-Hawaii), the 84-year-old chairman of the Senate Appropriations Committee. &#8216;We&#8217;re going to spend $2 million for the promotion of astronomy in Hawaii,&#8217; McCain said with disgust, glancing at Inouye. &#8216;I ask the senator from Hawaii: Why do we need $2 million to promote astronomy in Hawaii when unemployment is going up and the stock market is tanking?&#8217; &#8221;</p>
<p>Well, it&#8217;s pretty clear, as a previous poster noted. We should be spending that $2M to promote it in Arizona!</p>
<p>But really, astronomy has become, for John McCain, a convenient example of earmarking run wild. It&#8217;s a tiny  amount, but it&#8217;s like Joe the Plumber for the middle class. It&#8217;s a triviality, but hugely memorable.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Spiv</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/27/apparently-astronomy-is-un-american/comment-page-1/#comment-65040</link>
		<dc:creator>Spiv</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Mar 2009 18:29:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/27/apparently-astronomy-is-un-american/#comment-65040</guid>
		<description>wow, 10.45 million out of 787 billion? So the top 10 worst things about the bill account for 0.0013% of the bill? I think he might actually be saying this is the most efficient bill to ever come out of congress.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>wow, 10.45 million out of 787 billion? So the top 10 worst things about the bill account for 0.0013% of the bill? I think he might actually be saying this is the most efficient bill to ever come out of congress.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/27/apparently-astronomy-is-un-american/comment-page-1/#comment-64967</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Mar 2009 05:11:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/27/apparently-astronomy-is-un-american/#comment-64967</guid>
		<description>None among us seems to know what, in this instance, &quot;promotion of astronomy&quot; means.  My guess is that neither does John McCain or whoever posts on his twitter account.  What I find somewhat disturbing is that the writer evidently thought that, in the absence of further clarification, the designation &quot;promotion of astronomy&quot; would sound like probable pork to a lot of readers.  A sizeable segment of the American population seems inimical to basic science, probably the same segment averse to any group described as &quot;intellectual elite.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>None among us seems to know what, in this instance, &#8220;promotion of astronomy&#8221; means.  My guess is that neither does John McCain or whoever posts on his twitter account.  What I find somewhat disturbing is that the writer evidently thought that, in the absence of further clarification, the designation &#8220;promotion of astronomy&#8221; would sound like probable pork to a lot of readers.  A sizeable segment of the American population seems inimical to basic science, probably the same segment averse to any group described as &#8220;intellectual elite.&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: why yes, science does equal jobs &#171; weird things</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/27/apparently-astronomy-is-un-american/comment-page-1/#comment-64812</link>
		<dc:creator>why yes, science does equal jobs &#171; weird things</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Mar 2009 06:11:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/27/apparently-astronomy-is-un-american/#comment-64812</guid>
		<description>[...] which come to trillions of dollars, is picking on $140 million budgets for volcano monitoring, $2 million for a number of astronomy grants and genetics and pest control studies with just budgets just shy of a quarter million or so each. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] which come to trillions of dollars, is picking on $140 million budgets for volcano monitoring, $2 million for a number of astronomy grants and genetics and pest control studies with just budgets just shy of a quarter million or so each. [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: why</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/27/apparently-astronomy-is-un-american/comment-page-1/#comment-64783</link>
		<dc:creator>why</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Mar 2009 03:47:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/02/27/apparently-astronomy-is-un-american/#comment-64783</guid>
		<description>In the same argument that people can be patriotic and question the government / war i would argue that somebody can be for science and at the same time question the need for government funding of potentially frivolous research projects</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the same argument that people can be patriotic and question the government / war i would argue that somebody can be for science and at the same time question the need for government funding of potentially frivolous research projects</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
