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	<title>Comments on: Perceiving Randomness</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/04/06/perceiving-randomness/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/04/06/perceiving-randomness/</link>
	<description>Random samplings from a universe of ideas.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 14 Feb 2012 12:14:22 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Random Links XXXXI &#171; Random Musings of a Deranged Mind</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/04/06/perceiving-randomness/comment-page-1/#comment-75676</link>
		<dc:creator>Random Links XXXXI &#171; Random Musings of a Deranged Mind</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 00:14:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/04/06/perceiving-randomness/#comment-75676</guid>
		<description>[...] http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/04/06/perceiving-randomness/ [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] <a href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/04/06/perceiving-randomness/" rel="nofollow">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/04/06/perceiving-randomness/</a> [...]</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Looking For Patterns - Tips for Creative Problem Solving &#171; ZenStorming - Where Science Meets Muse&#8230;</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/04/06/perceiving-randomness/comment-page-1/#comment-74251</link>
		<dc:creator>Looking For Patterns - Tips for Creative Problem Solving &#171; ZenStorming - Where Science Meets Muse&#8230;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 01:25:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/04/06/perceiving-randomness/#comment-74251</guid>
		<description>[...] another perspective on patterns check out this blog over at [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] another perspective on patterns check out this blog over at [...]</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/04/06/perceiving-randomness/comment-page-1/#comment-72188</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Apr 2009 16:14:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/04/06/perceiving-randomness/#comment-72188</guid>
		<description>Why do you believe that random-without-correlations is &#039;more random&#039; than random-with-correlations?  The output, for instance, of a Markov chain can have any correlation length whatsoever.

But you&#039;re not alone.  My physics colleagues almost universally say random when they mean uncorrelated.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why do you believe that random-without-correlations is &#8216;more random&#8217; than random-with-correlations?  The output, for instance, of a Markov chain can have any correlation length whatsoever.</p>
<p>But you&#8217;re not alone.  My physics colleagues almost universally say random when they mean uncorrelated.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Perception, Piero and Pollock &#171; In the Dark</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/04/06/perceiving-randomness/comment-page-1/#comment-71893</link>
		<dc:creator>Perception, Piero and Pollock &#171; In the Dark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Apr 2009 14:17:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/04/06/perceiving-randomness/#comment-71893</guid>
		<description>[...] put me in an artistic frame of mind so, to follow up my post on randomness (and the corresponding parallel version on cosmic variance), I thought I&#8217;d develop some thoughts about the nature of perception and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] put me in an artistic frame of mind so, to follow up my post on randomness (and the corresponding parallel version on cosmic variance), I thought I&#8217;d develop some thoughts about the nature of perception and [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Brendon Brewer</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/04/06/perceiving-randomness/comment-page-1/#comment-71753</link>
		<dc:creator>Brendon Brewer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Apr 2009 12:10:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/04/06/perceiving-randomness/#comment-71753</guid>
		<description>&gt;&gt;the two pictures both have zero entropy, since they are both exact states and not represented by probability distributions&lt;&lt;

Yay! I&#039;ve been saying this for ages but it rarely seems to get through. Another example: a data set is never Gaussian.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>>>the two pictures both have zero entropy, since they are both exact states and not represented by probability distributions<<</p>
<p>Yay! I&#8217;ve been saying this for ages but it rarely seems to get through. Another example: a data set is never Gaussian.</p>
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		<title>By: jpd</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/04/06/perceiving-randomness/comment-page-1/#comment-71679</link>
		<dc:creator>jpd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2009 23:56:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/04/06/perceiving-randomness/#comment-71679</guid>
		<description>Carl Pilkington seems to be a supported of Boltzmann brains.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Carl Pilkington seems to be a supported of Boltzmann brains.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Arrows and Demons &#171; In the Dark</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/04/06/perceiving-randomness/comment-page-1/#comment-71525</link>
		<dc:creator>Arrows and Demons &#171; In the Dark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Apr 2009 20:57:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/04/06/perceiving-randomness/#comment-71525</guid>
		<description>[...] and&#160;Demons  My recent post about randomness and non-randomness spawned a lot of comments over on cosmic variance about the nature of entropy. I thought I&#8217;d add a bit about that topic [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] and&nbsp;Demons  My recent post about randomness and non-randomness spawned a lot of comments over on cosmic variance about the nature of entropy. I thought I&#8217;d add a bit about that topic [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: &#187; Randomness is the materialist&#8217;s delusion</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/04/06/perceiving-randomness/comment-page-1/#comment-71087</link>
		<dc:creator>&#187; Randomness is the materialist&#8217;s delusion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Apr 2009 11:57:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/04/06/perceiving-randomness/#comment-71087</guid>
		<description>[...] article states that we humans look for patterns where they don&#8217;t exist.   To prove their argument, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] article states that we humans look for patterns where they don&#8217;t exist.   To prove their argument, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Alfonso</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/04/06/perceiving-randomness/comment-page-1/#comment-70944</link>
		<dc:creator>Alfonso</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 13:27:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/04/06/perceiving-randomness/#comment-70944</guid>
		<description>May be humans try to find a patern were SEAMS to be random
What we usually think is random (like the stars in the sky) is not
For that reason we are good finding patterns were they are but we are not good at generating random series</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>May be humans try to find a patern were SEAMS to be random<br />
What we usually think is random (like the stars in the sky) is not<br />
For that reason we are good finding patterns were they are but we are not good at generating random series</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Randomness: our brain deceive us &#171; Mirror Image</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/04/06/perceiving-randomness/comment-page-1/#comment-70913</link>
		<dc:creator>Randomness: our brain deceive us &#171; Mirror Image</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 07:56:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/04/06/perceiving-randomness/#comment-70913</guid>
		<description>[...] random, and one is not:  Which is which ? The thing is that left image is not random, and right is. Sean Carroll from Cosmic Variance write: &#8220;Humans are not very good at generating random sequences; when asked to come up with a [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] random, and one is not:  Which is which ? The thing is that left image is not random, and right is. Sean Carroll from Cosmic Variance write: &#8220;Humans are not very good at generating random sequences; when asked to come up with a [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Brian2</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/04/06/perceiving-randomness/comment-page-1/#comment-70881</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 23:04:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/04/06/perceiving-randomness/#comment-70881</guid>
		<description>Maybe, in terms of characteristics favored by evolution, correctly perceiving that the situation is not random can alert one to possible danger and perhaps save one&#039;s life, whereas incorrectly thinking that things are not &quot;normal&quot; may merely lead to a minor waste of time and energy and a bit of unneccessary angst.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe, in terms of characteristics favored by evolution, correctly perceiving that the situation is not random can alert one to possible danger and perhaps save one&#8217;s life, whereas incorrectly thinking that things are not &#8220;normal&#8221; may merely lead to a minor waste of time and energy and a bit of unneccessary angst.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: NewEnglandBob</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/04/06/perceiving-randomness/comment-page-1/#comment-70875</link>
		<dc:creator>NewEnglandBob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 21:35:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/04/06/perceiving-randomness/#comment-70875</guid>
		<description>Old topic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Old topic.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy C</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/04/06/perceiving-randomness/comment-page-1/#comment-70840</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy C</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 14:34:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/04/06/perceiving-randomness/#comment-70840</guid>
		<description>@Aatash,

I&#039;m not sure if you were trying to correct me, or just adding to my comment; but to clarify, I&#039;m well aware that Technical Analysts do not consider stock price movements random (by &#039;adding to the list&#039;, I meant that TAs see patterns in random fluctuations). My reference to Mandelbrot was a nod to the fact that it has been shown that many (perhaps all) of the features that a TA would look for in stock price movements can be generated by, for example, multifractal models of the stock market. With regards to &quot;Who gives a damn [how you make money]&quot;, I think the key issue here is that if you have been making money by chance, based on a deeply flawed idea (be it technical analysis or some inappropriate stochastic model), then one day you may find that those flaws catch up to you, and relieve you of your capital.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Aatash,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure if you were trying to correct me, or just adding to my comment; but to clarify, I&#8217;m well aware that Technical Analysts do not consider stock price movements random (by &#8216;adding to the list&#8217;, I meant that TAs see patterns in random fluctuations). My reference to Mandelbrot was a nod to the fact that it has been shown that many (perhaps all) of the features that a TA would look for in stock price movements can be generated by, for example, multifractal models of the stock market. With regards to &#8220;Who gives a damn [how you make money]&#8220;, I think the key issue here is that if you have been making money by chance, based on a deeply flawed idea (be it technical analysis or some inappropriate stochastic model), then one day you may find that those flaws catch up to you, and relieve you of your capital.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/04/06/perceiving-randomness/comment-page-1/#comment-70838</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 14:17:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/04/06/perceiving-randomness/#comment-70838</guid>
		<description>For example, the exponential property of the complexity ensures that for a system with large entropy in the thermodynamic limit, all but a negligible number of states in the probability distribution will have high complexity, of order the entropy. One can show that the complexity is peaked at an average value of order the entropy.

Also, if our memory device is very limited, then we have no choice but to describe very complex states by means of a probability distribution with comparable entropy.

Finally, given an initial single state with low complexity, the system is highly likely to be found in a state of high complexity later on, again because there are exponentially many more states of high versus low complexity. This is the complexity version of the 2nd law of thermodynamics, valid even for perfectly closed systems with unitary time evolution.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For example, the exponential property of the complexity ensures that for a system with large entropy in the thermodynamic limit, all but a negligible number of states in the probability distribution will have high complexity, of order the entropy. One can show that the complexity is peaked at an average value of order the entropy.</p>
<p>Also, if our memory device is very limited, then we have no choice but to describe very complex states by means of a probability distribution with comparable entropy.</p>
<p>Finally, given an initial single state with low complexity, the system is highly likely to be found in a state of high complexity later on, again because there are exponentially many more states of high versus low complexity. This is the complexity version of the 2nd law of thermodynamics, valid even for perfectly closed systems with unitary time evolution.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/04/06/perceiving-randomness/comment-page-1/#comment-70835</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 14:03:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/04/06/perceiving-randomness/#comment-70835</guid>
		<description>These are all great questions. Let me answer them in turn.

So, as you know, given a probability distribution rho_i, where i labels the possible states, the entropy is defined by:

entropy = -(sum i) rho_i log rho_i.

It vanishes for a pure state--that is, when rho_i is equal to one for a single state and zero for all other states. The entropy is maximal if we have no information and must assign equal probability to all states. Given knowledge of the average energy of the system, we must maximize the entropy (i.e., our ignorance) subject to the constraint that &lt;E&gt; has the given value, and we then obtain the familiar canonical ensemble of thermodynamics.

Entropy can be measured in bits, provided that we take our logarithm base 2. (Changing the base is equivalent to multiplying the formula by a uniform constant.) As an example, the entropy of an unknown binary string n bits long, and therefore having 2^n possible states each with equal probability 1/2^n, is just n bits, as expected.

Meanwhile, the algorithmic complexity of a single state can be defined in several ways. One simple definition is that it&#039;s the number of bits in the shortest string needed to communicate the value of the  state to a second individual. A set of 10 vertical arrows obviously requires a shorter description than a set of 10 randomly oriented arrows.

Another definition of the complexity of a state is that its the number of bits in a miinimal algorithm or computer program needed to generate the value of the state.

Now, you are correct that there remains some ambiguity in the definition of complexity. I could always change my labelings so that a state &#124;1010111001&gt; became &#124;1111111111&gt;. Obviously the definition of a complexity function depends on our labeling scheme for the states.

But the crucial fact is that once we&#039;ve chosen a complexity scheme, whatever our choice, there will always be exponentially more states of high complexity than low complexity, because the complexity function defines a one-to-one correspondence between the states of the system and the set of minimal binary messages representing them. That&#039;s the crucial feature of complexity. That fact ensures the various properties I described earlier.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These are all great questions. Let me answer them in turn.</p>
<p>So, as you know, given a probability distribution rho_i, where i labels the possible states, the entropy is defined by:</p>
<p>entropy = -(sum i) rho_i log rho_i.</p>
<p>It vanishes for a pure state&#8211;that is, when rho_i is equal to one for a single state and zero for all other states. The entropy is maximal if we have no information and must assign equal probability to all states. Given knowledge of the average energy of the system, we must maximize the entropy (i.e., our ignorance) subject to the constraint that <e> has the given value, and we then obtain the familiar canonical ensemble of thermodynamics.</p>
<p>Entropy can be measured in bits, provided that we take our logarithm base 2. (Changing the base is equivalent to multiplying the formula by a uniform constant.) As an example, the entropy of an unknown binary string n bits long, and therefore having 2^n possible states each with equal probability 1/2^n, is just n bits, as expected.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, the algorithmic complexity of a single state can be defined in several ways. One simple definition is that it&#8217;s the number of bits in the shortest string needed to communicate the value of the  state to a second individual. A set of 10 vertical arrows obviously requires a shorter description than a set of 10 randomly oriented arrows.</p>
<p>Another definition of the complexity of a state is that its the number of bits in a miinimal algorithm or computer program needed to generate the value of the state.</p>
<p>Now, you are correct that there remains some ambiguity in the definition of complexity. I could always change my labelings so that a state |1010111001> became |1111111111>. Obviously the definition of a complexity function depends on our labeling scheme for the states.</p>
<p>But the crucial fact is that once we&#8217;ve chosen a complexity scheme, whatever our choice, there will always be exponentially more states of high complexity than low complexity, because the complexity function defines a one-to-one correspondence between the states of the system and the set of minimal binary messages representing them. That&#8217;s the crucial feature of complexity. That fact ensures the various properties I described earlier.</e></p>
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		<title>By: Peter Coles</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/04/06/perceiving-randomness/comment-page-1/#comment-70834</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Coles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 13:59:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/04/06/perceiving-randomness/#comment-70834</guid>
		<description>Jesse M,

You are right, I got the pictures from Stephen Jay Gould&#039;s book and used them with appropriate credit in my book &lt;em&gt; From Cosmos to Chaos &lt;/em&gt;.

You will also find the same pair of images in various places around the web.

Peter</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jesse M,</p>
<p>You are right, I got the pictures from Stephen Jay Gould&#8217;s book and used them with appropriate credit in my book <em> From Cosmos to Chaos </em>.</p>
<p>You will also find the same pair of images in various places around the web.</p>
<p>Peter</p>
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		<title>By: Interested Bystander</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/04/06/perceiving-randomness/comment-page-1/#comment-70830</link>
		<dc:creator>Interested Bystander</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 13:07:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/04/06/perceiving-randomness/#comment-70830</guid>
		<description>Umm... all the superballs would end up sitting on the bottom of the box.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Umm&#8230; all the superballs would end up sitting on the bottom of the box.</p>
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		<title>By: Arnold</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/04/06/perceiving-randomness/comment-page-1/#comment-70804</link>
		<dc:creator>Arnold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 09:55:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/04/06/perceiving-randomness/#comment-70804</guid>
		<description>The most interesting thing is that we can compare stochastic datasets.
The sequence of n = 15 two-digit numbers

03, 09, 27, 81, 43, 29, 87, 61, 83, 49, 47, 41, 23, 69, 07   (A)

looks as random as the sequence

37, 74, 11, 48, 85, 22, 59, 96, 33, 70, 07, 44, 81, 18, 55   (B)

But the degrees of their stochasticity can be more objectively measured by the Kolmogorov parameter. It can be proved that that the stochasticity probability is approximately 4,700 times higher for the sequence (A) than for the sequence (B).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The most interesting thing is that we can compare stochastic datasets.<br />
The sequence of n = 15 two-digit numbers</p>
<p>03, 09, 27, 81, 43, 29, 87, 61, 83, 49, 47, 41, 23, 69, 07   (A)</p>
<p>looks as random as the sequence</p>
<p>37, 74, 11, 48, 85, 22, 59, 96, 33, 70, 07, 44, 81, 18, 55   (B)</p>
<p>But the degrees of their stochasticity can be more objectively measured by the Kolmogorov parameter. It can be proved that that the stochasticity probability is approximately 4,700 times higher for the sequence (A) than for the sequence (B).</p>
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		<title>By: operator</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/04/06/perceiving-randomness/comment-page-1/#comment-70801</link>
		<dc:creator>operator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 09:43:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/04/06/perceiving-randomness/#comment-70801</guid>
		<description>Hey Matt, it&#039;s the 19th Century on the line. They say they&#039;re looking for their definition of entropy and they&#039;re wondering if you&#039;ve seen it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Matt, it&#8217;s the 19th Century on the line. They say they&#8217;re looking for their definition of entropy and they&#8217;re wondering if you&#8217;ve seen it.</p>
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		<title>By: wererogue</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/04/06/perceiving-randomness/comment-page-1/#comment-70800</link>
		<dc:creator>wererogue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 09:41:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/04/06/perceiving-randomness/#comment-70800</guid>
		<description>This comes up pretty quickly when you&#039;re writing videogames - nobody likes it when the same random effect/sound byte keeps being played again and again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This comes up pretty quickly when you&#8217;re writing videogames &#8211; nobody likes it when the same random effect/sound byte keeps being played again and again.</p>
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