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	<title>Comments on: Passing time</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/06/05/passing-time/</link>
	<description>Random samplings from a universe of ideas.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 21:31:31 -0600</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: wuzzy</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/06/05/passing-time/comment-page-1/#comment-78908</link>
		<dc:creator>wuzzy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Jun 2009 01:29:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/06/05/passing-time/#comment-78908</guid>
		<description>Years ago I had a $10 Timex, self-winding, which lost about 1 second/month.  It too, was Swiss made.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Years ago I had a $10 Timex, self-winding, which lost about 1 second/month.  It too, was Swiss made.</p>
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		<title>By: serial catowner</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/06/05/passing-time/comment-page-1/#comment-78607</link>
		<dc:creator>serial catowner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 16:15:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/06/05/passing-time/#comment-78607</guid>
		<description>Reminds me of the soliloquy in &lt;i&gt;Jurassic Park&lt;/i&gt; by the guy with the flea circus- how the customers would all describe the wonderful things the fleas were doing, and how did he ever train them to do that?

The point being, of course, that &lt;i&gt;there weren&#039;t actually any fleas there at all&lt;/i&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reminds me of the soliloquy in <i>Jurassic Park</i> by the guy with the flea circus- how the customers would all describe the wonderful things the fleas were doing, and how did he ever train them to do that?</p>
<p>The point being, of course, that <i>there weren&#8217;t actually any fleas there at all</i>.</p>
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		<title>By: Yale s.Y. Landsberg</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/06/05/passing-time/comment-page-1/#comment-78424</link>
		<dc:creator>Yale s.Y. Landsberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 23:21:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/06/05/passing-time/#comment-78424</guid>
		<description>I add this here as I believe it refocuses attention from displays of both mechanical and quartz timepieces to the need for more holistic &quot;tymewhole&quot; displays of the whole picture of time.  As our bodies need to know the time. 
  
I said elsewhere that the Chronophage’s depiction of time being devoured seems really cool.
And then I added that, as recent medical research shows that many illnesses (including depression, obesity, insomnia, autism and Sundown Syndrome in Alzheimer’s patients, and more) are associated with poorly operating biological clocks, maybe it is we who are being devoured by time? At least “corporate standard time” — as compared with “local natural time” — i.e., “time” that is naturally defined as “time of local sunrise, local noon and local sunset”!

As modern working conditions and modern time-keeping (such as time zones, and Daily Saving Time) have more and more gotten in the way of our biological clocks knowing what they need to know to healthily regulate our circadian rhythms, perhaps it is time for us to get our bio-clocks back in sync with the flows and ebbs of actual day and night? Can’t hurt, and might help a lot. Which is why GreenTyme’s recently patented Synclecron is freely available on the Web at GTyme.org. And also why its mobile edition will soon be freely available for the browsers of iPhones, gPhones, BlackBerries, etc., via gty.me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I add this here as I believe it refocuses attention from displays of both mechanical and quartz timepieces to the need for more holistic &#8220;tymewhole&#8221; displays of the whole picture of time.  As our bodies need to know the time. </p>
<p>I said elsewhere that the Chronophage’s depiction of time being devoured seems really cool.<br />
And then I added that, as recent medical research shows that many illnesses (including depression, obesity, insomnia, autism and Sundown Syndrome in Alzheimer’s patients, and more) are associated with poorly operating biological clocks, maybe it is we who are being devoured by time? At least “corporate standard time” — as compared with “local natural time” — i.e., “time” that is naturally defined as “time of local sunrise, local noon and local sunset”!</p>
<p>As modern working conditions and modern time-keeping (such as time zones, and Daily Saving Time) have more and more gotten in the way of our biological clocks knowing what they need to know to healthily regulate our circadian rhythms, perhaps it is time for us to get our bio-clocks back in sync with the flows and ebbs of actual day and night? Can’t hurt, and might help a lot. Which is why GreenTyme’s recently patented Synclecron is freely available on the Web at GTyme.org. And also why its mobile edition will soon be freely available for the browsers of iPhones, gPhones, BlackBerries, etc., via gty.me.</p>
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		<title>By: Jo</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/06/05/passing-time/comment-page-1/#comment-78397</link>
		<dc:creator>Jo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 18:14:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/06/05/passing-time/#comment-78397</guid>
		<description>@JP:  &quot;It’s like you guys are robots or something. Completely unemotional about everything and believe that everything can be and should be reduced to numeric rationality.&quot;

Come again?  Hang out with many New Agers?  I&#039;ve heard this bogus accusation before.  Usually means you missed the point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@JP:  &#8220;It’s like you guys are robots or something. Completely unemotional about everything and believe that everything can be and should be reduced to numeric rationality.&#8221;</p>
<p>Come again?  Hang out with many New Agers?  I&#8217;ve heard this bogus accusation before.  Usually means you missed the point.</p>
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		<title>By: Doug K</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/06/05/passing-time/comment-page-1/#comment-78380</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 16:00:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/06/05/passing-time/#comment-78380</guid>
		<description>I am currently wearing a large heavy quartz-watch imitation of the fashionista mechanical watches, for no better reason than that it amuses me. For those of us who don&#039;t have cell phones and/or occasionally wander into mountains or canyons where all signals die, a wristwatch is still useful. Also, for swimmers, runners, randonneurs and their ilk, carrying a cellphone is irksome or impossible. A quartz digital watch is perfect for us. 

I have an old automatic watch, a Buren, which at the time (1950s) was the thinnest automatic watch made. It&#039;s worth about nothing, although it runs fine and keeps time to about 2-3 minutes a week. When all the watch batteries die, it&#039;s still going. 

If the cost of mechanical watches were a reflection of admiration for their engineering, I&#039;d expect these older watches to be worth more.. so I agree, it&#039;s mostly the ineffable wonder of branding that sells. Those watches are accessories, not timepieces: signifiers, as Kaleberg says.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am currently wearing a large heavy quartz-watch imitation of the fashionista mechanical watches, for no better reason than that it amuses me. For those of us who don&#8217;t have cell phones and/or occasionally wander into mountains or canyons where all signals die, a wristwatch is still useful. Also, for swimmers, runners, randonneurs and their ilk, carrying a cellphone is irksome or impossible. A quartz digital watch is perfect for us. </p>
<p>I have an old automatic watch, a Buren, which at the time (1950s) was the thinnest automatic watch made. It&#8217;s worth about nothing, although it runs fine and keeps time to about 2-3 minutes a week. When all the watch batteries die, it&#8217;s still going. </p>
<p>If the cost of mechanical watches were a reflection of admiration for their engineering, I&#8217;d expect these older watches to be worth more.. so I agree, it&#8217;s mostly the ineffable wonder of branding that sells. Those watches are accessories, not timepieces: signifiers, as Kaleberg says.</p>
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		<title>By: Spiv</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/06/05/passing-time/comment-page-1/#comment-78373</link>
		<dc:creator>Spiv</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 15:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/06/05/passing-time/#comment-78373</guid>
		<description>Fashion? Wait, Fasion? That&#039;s what interesting watches are about? I don&#039;t wear a watch . I, you know, own a cell phone that plugs in to a network that plugs in to some atomic clock somewhere. That same cell phone handles all my other stuff like alarms, messages, and telephone calls. I do own a few watches though (tossed in a drawer where I can admire them whenever I please) 

Getting by day to day &quot;on time&quot; doesn&#039;t take accuracy. Mechanical watches are interesting to look at, and very interesting to build. It&#039;s art.

I do have something against a quarts watch: You&#039;re probably already carrying around at least one other device that serves its purpose.  You&#039;re also probably in view of at least one more time piece (in fact if you&#039;re reading this, you certainly are).  A wristwatch no longer serves a purpose. What&#039;s left is a testament to precision machining that is perfectly fine to admire.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fashion? Wait, Fasion? That&#8217;s what interesting watches are about? I don&#8217;t wear a watch . I, you know, own a cell phone that plugs in to a network that plugs in to some atomic clock somewhere. That same cell phone handles all my other stuff like alarms, messages, and telephone calls. I do own a few watches though (tossed in a drawer where I can admire them whenever I please) </p>
<p>Getting by day to day &#8220;on time&#8221; doesn&#8217;t take accuracy. Mechanical watches are interesting to look at, and very interesting to build. It&#8217;s art.</p>
<p>I do have something against a quarts watch: You&#8217;re probably already carrying around at least one other device that serves its purpose.  You&#8217;re also probably in view of at least one more time piece (in fact if you&#8217;re reading this, you certainly are).  A wristwatch no longer serves a purpose. What&#8217;s left is a testament to precision machining that is perfectly fine to admire.</p>
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		<title>By: Neal J. King</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/06/05/passing-time/comment-page-1/#comment-78369</link>
		<dc:creator>Neal J. King</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 15:03:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/06/05/passing-time/#comment-78369</guid>
		<description>Anne (23),

I understand what you&#039;re saying: The mechanical solution appeals to you because it has to be done right, whereas the quartz solution can be made to work almost any which way.

But isn&#039;t it the mark of true sophistication and elegance in a solution that it is robust to variations and specific values? An analogy: I might be able to prove a particular result using either a complex calculation (in which I have to get every step right) or a simple symmetry argument. Which is more elegant?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anne (23),</p>
<p>I understand what you&#8217;re saying: The mechanical solution appeals to you because it has to be done right, whereas the quartz solution can be made to work almost any which way.</p>
<p>But isn&#8217;t it the mark of true sophistication and elegance in a solution that it is robust to variations and specific values? An analogy: I might be able to prove a particular result using either a complex calculation (in which I have to get every step right) or a simple symmetry argument. Which is more elegant?</p>
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		<title>By: Anne</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/06/05/passing-time/comment-page-1/#comment-78341</link>
		<dc:creator>Anne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 06:38:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/06/05/passing-time/#comment-78341</guid>
		<description>Jason A.: You could argue that the reason I think mechanical watches is arbitrary. Maybe it is. But I don&#039;t think so: I think there&#039;s a notion of cleverness that I&#039;m trying (and apparently failing) to describe here that has much broader applicability. In a way it&#039;s like &quot;elegance&quot; in mathematical proofs. Some proofs are elegant, others are not, in spite of being just as valid. 

I think in the case of watches what I admire is that mechanical watches manage to solve a difficult problem - making movement exactly repeatable and periodic - under very challenging constraints. Quartz watches, well, it&#039;s like applying a sledgehammer to the problem. *I* could design a quartz clock, and I don&#039;t really know what I&#039;m doing. I could be sloppy about it - so the battery voltage isn&#039;t quite right, so the resistors are a little off, so what, I just fiddle one pot and it keeps great time. Modern electronics provides such powerful tools, you can churn out zillions of cheap watches. But try to do the same thing with, essentially, pre 20th-century techniques, and it becomes extremely difficult. Solving hard problems is more impressive than solving easy problems. 

A mechanical watch is almost the opposite of a Rube Goldberg machine: a Rube Goldberg machine does a simple task using the most complicated method available. A mechanical watch must be as simple as the task and the constraint (no electronics) allows or it just won&#039;t work. And a mechanical watch that doesn&#039;t work - whose hands don&#039;t move - isn&#039;t a solution to the problem at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jason A.: You could argue that the reason I think mechanical watches is arbitrary. Maybe it is. But I don&#8217;t think so: I think there&#8217;s a notion of cleverness that I&#8217;m trying (and apparently failing) to describe here that has much broader applicability. In a way it&#8217;s like &#8220;elegance&#8221; in mathematical proofs. Some proofs are elegant, others are not, in spite of being just as valid. </p>
<p>I think in the case of watches what I admire is that mechanical watches manage to solve a difficult problem &#8211; making movement exactly repeatable and periodic &#8211; under very challenging constraints. Quartz watches, well, it&#8217;s like applying a sledgehammer to the problem. *I* could design a quartz clock, and I don&#8217;t really know what I&#8217;m doing. I could be sloppy about it &#8211; so the battery voltage isn&#8217;t quite right, so the resistors are a little off, so what, I just fiddle one pot and it keeps great time. Modern electronics provides such powerful tools, you can churn out zillions of cheap watches. But try to do the same thing with, essentially, pre 20th-century techniques, and it becomes extremely difficult. Solving hard problems is more impressive than solving easy problems. </p>
<p>A mechanical watch is almost the opposite of a Rube Goldberg machine: a Rube Goldberg machine does a simple task using the most complicated method available. A mechanical watch must be as simple as the task and the constraint (no electronics) allows or it just won&#8217;t work. And a mechanical watch that doesn&#8217;t work &#8211; whose hands don&#8217;t move &#8211; isn&#8217;t a solution to the problem at all.</p>
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		<title>By: Devouring time &#124; Cosmic Variance &#124; Discover Magazine</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/06/05/passing-time/comment-page-1/#comment-78330</link>
		<dc:creator>Devouring time &#124; Cosmic Variance &#124; Discover Magazine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 02:46:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/06/05/passing-time/#comment-78330</guid>
		<description>[...] previous post on watches seems to have been misconstrued as an attack on all things mechanical. So, to establish my street [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] previous post on watches seems to have been misconstrued as an attack on all things mechanical. So, to establish my street [...]</p>
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		<title>By: greg</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/06/05/passing-time/comment-page-1/#comment-78315</link>
		<dc:creator>greg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 01:24:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/06/05/passing-time/#comment-78315</guid>
		<description>Rube Goldberg??   No - more like an elegant mechanical engineering solution to the problem of compact timekeeping.  Must everything be merely utilitarian? I have nothing against quartz timepieces. Some of them are pretty cool. I own two.  But if you can&#039;t understand the attraction to a precision machine crafted to very tight tolerances that performs the timekeeping function quite well (do you really need quartz accuracy?), I don&#039;t know what to say.  A good design is timeless (no pun intended).  A DC-3 is a lot slower than a Boeing 747.  But it&#039;s a beautiful design. You would think readers of a physics blog would resonate with a mechanical device that elegantly produces simple harmonic motion! Channel your inner Christian Huygens!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rube Goldberg??   No &#8211; more like an elegant mechanical engineering solution to the problem of compact timekeeping.  Must everything be merely utilitarian? I have nothing against quartz timepieces. Some of them are pretty cool. I own two.  But if you can&#8217;t understand the attraction to a precision machine crafted to very tight tolerances that performs the timekeeping function quite well (do you really need quartz accuracy?), I don&#8217;t know what to say.  A good design is timeless (no pun intended).  A DC-3 is a lot slower than a Boeing 747.  But it&#8217;s a beautiful design. You would think readers of a physics blog would resonate with a mechanical device that elegantly produces simple harmonic motion! Channel your inner Christian Huygens!</p>
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