Comments on: Camp Quest UK

By: Len Zanger

Len Zanger — Tue, 04 Aug 2009 02:19:10 +0000

Thanks, Mark.

Congrats to Sam, Richard and all on a successful camp and especially for having a thorough understanding of what makes a CQ and pulling it off perfectly.

Now on to CQ Michigan. And yes, I’m still the camp director there.

Best,

-Z

By: Crispian Jago

Crispian Jago — Thu, 30 Jul 2009 14:08:03 +0000

I dropped my kids off at Camp Quest UK on monday morning and I’m sure they’re having a great time. Despite a few negative press articles here in the UK, I think the public generally support the promotion of science and reason of myth and superstition.

http://crispian-jago.blogspot.com/2009/07/overwhelming-support-for-camp-quest-uk.html

Links to lots more articles, blogs, videos and radio interviews on my blog if you’re interested.

By: David Haines

David Haines — Tue, 28 Jul 2009 23:14:50 +0000

I don’t know where the idea came from that Camp Quest would be adopting “Imagine” as it’s anthem. The moment I heard about Camp Quest on the radio a few weeks ago, I Googled it and wrote to Samantha Stein offering a free workshop on my science-inspired songs. In her reply she said:

Hi David,

I just had another look at your website – the song Mr Darwin is really fantastic.
Do you have any other songs we could teach them around the camp fire? I think it would be good if the workshop songs were evolution based, but we are open to all suggestions (Just no John Lennon songs, please! )

We are really looking forward to having you at camp.

Samantha

My business partner Sue Blake and I visited today and spent a wonderful few hours there, teaching the kids a few songs (Mr Darwin, Stargazing, Planets and Mutate) then chatting to Camp Quest founder Edwin Kagin, the UK Camp leaders Sam Stein and Richard Craig and other members of the counselling team, especially the delightful Jens Christensen.

The idea that this is some sort of atheism indoctrination camp is so wide of the mark it’s laughable. It is simply a secular summer camp that – alongside all the usual physical activities and challenges – is offering campers the chance to develop their critical thinking. I witnessed a conversation between Edwin Kagin and a young camper about the invisible unicorns and was amazed at the degree of sophistication that young Esmee employed (I would guess she was maybe 10 or 12 at most) in her scepticism over Edwin’s declared faith in the mythical beast.

In the UK we attempt to pump our kids full of facts and – paradoxically – quite a lot of unproved and unprovable dogma through our bizarre insistence on religious education in schools. We do so little to develop the ability of children to think for themselves. At some point some kids (thank goodness) do go on to develop the faculty of independent thought (though the mindless output of the popular press and television would imply that many adults never attain this degree of sophistication). They then realise we’ve been pumping them full of undigested data combined with religious nonsense. No wonder they get disillusioned with the educational process!

Camp Quest is a tiny chink of light – trying to stimulate a bit of rational, analytical thought in our youngsters. I wish them every luck this year and into the future.

By: Space Camp « In the Dark

Space Camp « In the Dark — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 16:58:41 +0000

[...] thanks to cosmic variance for the inspiration, and apologies to Barry Took and Marty Feldman, who wrote the original Julian and Sandy sketches [...]
P.S.: Forgot to mention great post!

By: Space Camp « In the Dark

Space Camp « In the Dark — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 09:13:08 +0000

[...] thanks to cosmic variance for the inspiration, and apologies to Barry Took and Marty Feldman, who wrote the original Julian and Sandy sketches [...]

By: Neal J. King

Neal J. King — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 14:30:10 +0000

The religionists strike back!
from http://www.reuters.com/article/entertainmentNews/idUSTRE5622D020090703?feedType=RSS&feedName=entertainmentNews&rpc=22&sp=true

Turkish TV gameshow looks to convert atheists
ISTANBUL (Reuters) – What happens when you put a Muslim imam, a Christian priest, a rabbi and a Buddhist monk in a room with 10 atheists?

Turkish television station Kanal T hopes the answer is a ratings success as it prepares to launch a gameshow where spiritual guides from the four faiths will seek to convert a group of non-believers.

The prize for converts will be a pilgrimage to a holy site of their chosen religion — Mecca for Muslims, the Vatican for Christians, Jerusalem for Jews and Tibet for Buddhists.

But religious authorities in Muslim but secular Turkey are not amused by the twist on the popular reality game show format and the Religious Affairs Directorate is refusing to provide an imam for the show.

“Doing something like this for the sake of ratings is disrespectful to all religions. Religion should not be a subject for entertainment programs,” High Board of Religious Affairs Chairman Hamza Aktan told state news agency Anatolian after news of the planned program emerged.

The makers of “Penitents Compete” are unrepentant and reject claims that the show, scheduled to begin broadcasting in September, will cheapen religion.

By: Mark

Mark — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 14:01:16 +0000

It’s a quest Peter – they’re working on it.

By: Peter Coles

Peter Coles — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 23:03:24 +0000

This quest doesn’t look very camp to me

By: Neal J. King

Neal J. King — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 20:14:30 +0000

Another voice for non-overlapping magisteria:

Vatican should learn from Galileo mess, prelate says

VATICAN CITY (Reuters) – The Catholic Church should not fear scientific progress and possibly repeat the mistake it made when it condemned astronomer Galileo in the 17th century, a Vatican official said on Thursday in a rare self-criticism.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090702/sc_nm/us_pope_science_1

By: Mark

Mark — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 03:53:55 +0000

I hope so too chemicalscum – that would be a good question, although both are, of course, completely natural definitions in this case.

By: chemicalscum

chemicalscum — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 01:47:09 +0000

From the “Fact Corner” on the UK Camp Quest website:

“The Earth spins at 1,000 mph but it travels through space at an incredible 67,000 mph.”

I hope that they have got some kids with sufficient critical faculties to ask “relative to what ?”

By: capitalistimperialistpig

capitalistimperialistpig — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 12:29:02 +0000

Because what our society really needs is more indoctrination in your silly religion rather than somebody else’s.

By: coolstar

coolstar — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 04:27:05 +0000

Thanks to LMMI, Matt, wds, Brian137 and others for expressing my feelings about this camp better than I probably could. Personally, I fear “evangelicals” (which usually equates to “fanatics”) of all religions, creeds, philosophies, and lack of same pretty much equally. This sounds like a “re-education” camp to me and I don’t give a rat’s ass about what otherwise “good” things such a camp might accomplish.
Tacitus, I have to disagree with “The bottom line is that this is an entirely voluntary thing — families send their kids there with the full knowledge of what to expect….”.
Damn little I did as a kid, leaving out basic bodily functions, could truthfully be described as
“voluntary”.

By: Brian137

Brian137 — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 03:50:22 +0000

Mark,
That’s fine as long as no one lends any however subtle suggestion that this investigation should lead one to atheism, agnosticism, or social humanism – as long as there is no concomitant desire to influence the final point of view.
Maybe my suspicions are unfounded. If I heard that the Republican Party had opened a camp to teach kids “critical thinking,” I would be suspicious. Same with the Democrats. Maybe I sould trust the atheists, agnostics, and social humanists more. Still….

By: Mark

Mark — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 03:29:54 +0000

One isn’t taught it as a topic Brian. One is taught it by being educated in an environment in which whatever topic is being taught is openly analyzed and students are encouraged to question and discover realities about the topic. The precise opposite of being told to take things on faith.

By: Brian137

Brian137 — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 03:26:49 +0000

Mark,
I don’t remember ever being “taught” critical thinking. Do you remember being “taught” critical thinking? How did they “teach” it to you?
Trying to prove math theorems certainly developed an array of skills, as did taking physics courses, but the idea of an atheist or agnostic teaching a child “critical thinking” related to whether or not God exists seems just as insidious as having a relgious person do so – the teacher is biased as to what the outcome should be.

By: Brian137

Brian137 — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 02:57:13 +0000

Mark,
I did not use the term “indoctrinate” in relation to the parents’ relationship with their children – I used the word “influence.” Teaching critical thinking is wonderful, but the references to Richard Dawkins and the fact that the camp is organized by “atheists, agnostcs, and secular humanists” made me think that the camp was in some way, no matter how slight, intended to expose students to those points of view.

By: Mark

Mark — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 02:37:50 +0000

Brian137 – since one of the core principles is to teach critical thinking, I don’t think indoctrination is at all what it is about. It is true that it is run by nonbelievers, but that doesn’t mean there is an equivalence between teaching kids to mindlessly believe, and teaching them to observe the world and think critically about the proposed explanations for why it is that way.

By: Brian137

Brian137 — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 02:02:39 +0000

This camp sounds like a case of parents trying to influence their kids to be like mom and dad, to move them in the direction of a particular set of perspectives. If the parents were indoctrinated into their perspective by someone else, then why should they (or anyone else) believe in it? If the parents adopted the perspective mainly through their own insights, then why don’t they trust their children to rely on the childrens’ own, at least somewhat independent, insights? Are we atempting to make our kids into clones of ourselves, chips of the old block? God, Plausible God, Implausible God, or No God – according to your preference – save us from parental hubris.

By: Follower

Follower — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 01:57:09 +0000

As it was an atheist camp, and therefore devoid of all morals, I suppose it was all sex, drugs, and rock and roll?