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	<title>Comments on: Liquid Sand</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/06/29/liquid-sand/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/06/29/liquid-sand/</link>
	<description>Random samplings from a universe of ideas.</description>
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		<title>By: the forces between grains of sand &#171; 2point718</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/06/29/liquid-sand/comment-page-1/#comment-82302</link>
		<dc:creator>the forces between grains of sand &#171; 2point718</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 04:01:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/06/29/liquid-sand/#comment-82302</guid>
		<description>[...] by the Jaeger group at U. Chicago in Nature investigates (that Mark Trodden of Cosmic Variance summarizes) the interactions of sand particles. Jaeger&#8217;s group demonstrated the existence of surface [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] by the Jaeger group at U. Chicago in Nature investigates (that Mark Trodden of Cosmic Variance summarizes) the interactions of sand particles. Jaeger&#8217;s group demonstrated the existence of surface [...]</p>
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		<title>By: My Time to Waste&#187; Blog Archive &#187; Jets!!</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/06/29/liquid-sand/comment-page-1/#comment-81739</link>
		<dc:creator>My Time to Waste&#187; Blog Archive &#187; Jets!!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 03:22:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/06/29/liquid-sand/#comment-81739</guid>
		<description>[...] &#8230;from Discover Magazine. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] &#8230;from Discover Magazine. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Josh Mitteldorf</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/06/29/liquid-sand/comment-page-1/#comment-81667</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh Mitteldorf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 17:12:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/06/29/liquid-sand/#comment-81667</guid>
		<description>The forces that make falling water collect into droplets are surface tension forces, as the (polar) water molecules try to get as close to each other as they can.  These forces are inapplicable in the case of sand.  So the phenomenon - even though it looks similar to water droplets - must have an entirely different origin.

My guess is that it is about eddies in the airstream.  Places where the sand is denser block from the wind resistance from the sand behind.  So the sand behind &quot;catches up&quot; because it doesn&#039;t have to fight air resistance.  The sand in front of it is moving air out of the way and leaving a low pressure region in its wake. In fact, eddies could even create a downward airflow behind a sand ball, that tends to compress it and give it coherence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The forces that make falling water collect into droplets are surface tension forces, as the (polar) water molecules try to get as close to each other as they can.  These forces are inapplicable in the case of sand.  So the phenomenon &#8211; even though it looks similar to water droplets &#8211; must have an entirely different origin.</p>
<p>My guess is that it is about eddies in the airstream.  Places where the sand is denser block from the wind resistance from the sand behind.  So the sand behind &#8220;catches up&#8221; because it doesn&#8217;t have to fight air resistance.  The sand in front of it is moving air out of the way and leaving a low pressure region in its wake. In fact, eddies could even create a downward airflow behind a sand ball, that tends to compress it and give it coherence.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/06/29/liquid-sand/comment-page-1/#comment-81456</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 01:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/06/29/liquid-sand/#comment-81456</guid>
		<description>No venkat - we DO understand something about QCD and we DO understand something about falling sand (a lot actually). Still, the fun is in what we do not understand, and the fact that we do not completely understand everyday systems would be more surprising to many people than the fact than we don&#039;t understand the strong force completely. Sounds like you doin&#039;t think that simple statement is true. I guess we&#039;ll just have to disagree.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No venkat &#8211; we DO understand something about QCD and we DO understand something about falling sand (a lot actually). Still, the fun is in what we do not understand, and the fact that we do not completely understand everyday systems would be more surprising to many people than the fact than we don&#8217;t understand the strong force completely. Sounds like you doin&#8217;t think that simple statement is true. I guess we&#8217;ll just have to disagree.</p>
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		<title>By: Ginger Yellow</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/06/29/liquid-sand/comment-page-1/#comment-81119</link>
		<dc:creator>Ginger Yellow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 03:35:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/06/29/liquid-sand/#comment-81119</guid>
		<description>&quot;Back when I was a kid, my Dad constructed a small factory for producing resin-coated sand. He used compressed air to fluidize the sand, making it easy to move it from place to place using just gravity&quot;

I&#039;ve no idea if it&#039;s still there, but the Science Museum in London used to have a tub of sand fluidised in this way for kids to play with. It was very cool.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Back when I was a kid, my Dad constructed a small factory for producing resin-coated sand. He used compressed air to fluidize the sand, making it easy to move it from place to place using just gravity&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve no idea if it&#8217;s still there, but the Science Museum in London used to have a tub of sand fluidised in this way for kids to play with. It was very cool.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Woodhead</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/06/29/liquid-sand/comment-page-1/#comment-81098</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Woodhead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 00:12:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/06/29/liquid-sand/#comment-81098</guid>
		<description>The videos are very pretty, but the effects are not surprising.  Back when I was a kid, my Dad constructed a small factory for producing resin-coated sand.  He used compressed air to fluidize the sand, making it easy to move it from place to place using just gravity -- and even built a cooler for the finished product that fluidized several tons of coated sand at a time and ran it up and down and over a series of baffles with water cooling coils in them.

When air gets between the sand grains, they effectively act like a fluid, so you get effects like in the second video (the impact of the ball drives air into the surrounding sand, temporarily turning it into a  fluid.  You even get &quot;surface tension&quot; effects, I would suppose because of the pressure gradients (the trapped air has an easier time escaping at the surface of the sand).

Still, it&#039;s a lovely demonstration of how subtle and wonderful nature is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The videos are very pretty, but the effects are not surprising.  Back when I was a kid, my Dad constructed a small factory for producing resin-coated sand.  He used compressed air to fluidize the sand, making it easy to move it from place to place using just gravity &#8212; and even built a cooler for the finished product that fluidized several tons of coated sand at a time and ran it up and down and over a series of baffles with water cooling coils in them.</p>
<p>When air gets between the sand grains, they effectively act like a fluid, so you get effects like in the second video (the impact of the ball drives air into the surrounding sand, temporarily turning it into a  fluid.  You even get &#8220;surface tension&#8221; effects, I would suppose because of the pressure gradients (the trapped air has an easier time escaping at the surface of the sand).</p>
<p>Still, it&#8217;s a lovely demonstration of how subtle and wonderful nature is.</p>
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		<title>By: venkat</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/06/29/liquid-sand/comment-page-1/#comment-81021</link>
		<dc:creator>venkat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 09:29:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/06/29/liquid-sand/#comment-81021</guid>
		<description>yes, we DO understand something about QCD. but we understand very little about falling sand and the other wierd properties of granular materials. in my opinion, that would make QCD simpler than falling sand...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>yes, we DO understand something about QCD. but we understand very little about falling sand and the other wierd properties of granular materials. in my opinion, that would make QCD simpler than falling sand&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Gouttes de sable &#171; Dr. Goulu</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/06/29/liquid-sand/comment-page-1/#comment-80956</link>
		<dc:creator>Gouttes de sable &#171; Dr. Goulu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 20:35:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/06/29/liquid-sand/#comment-80956</guid>
		<description>[...] Trodden,&#8220;Liquid Sand&#8220;, 29 June  2009, Cosmic [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Trodden,&#8220;Liquid Sand&#8220;, 29 June  2009, Cosmic [...]</p>
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		<title>By: ruidh</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/06/29/liquid-sand/comment-page-1/#comment-80944</link>
		<dc:creator>ruidh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 18:44:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/06/29/liquid-sand/#comment-80944</guid>
		<description>I have to think that simple acceleration due to gravity is sufficient to describe the sand clumping up to some degree. Two small segments of the falling stream don&#039;t fall in lockstep. The lower segment has a higher velocity than the one above it at any point in time. That&#039;s enough to get the sand being stretched out. Then it only takes small forces to get to clump.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to think that simple acceleration due to gravity is sufficient to describe the sand clumping up to some degree. Two small segments of the falling stream don&#8217;t fall in lockstep. The lower segment has a higher velocity than the one above it at any point in time. That&#8217;s enough to get the sand being stretched out. Then it only takes small forces to get to clump.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/06/29/liquid-sand/comment-page-1/#comment-80923</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 14:33:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/06/29/liquid-sand/#comment-80923</guid>
		<description>venkat - the point is that almost everyone would say that falling sand is simple, but they would never say that about a supernova, or QCD. Further, you can make sand fall, or watch an impact on it right in your back yard if you like. I think it is worth pointing out that there is beautiful cutting edge physics to be found in systems like this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>venkat &#8211; the point is that almost everyone would say that falling sand is simple, but they would never say that about a supernova, or QCD. Further, you can make sand fall, or watch an impact on it right in your back yard if you like. I think it is worth pointing out that there is beautiful cutting edge physics to be found in systems like this.</p>
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		<title>By: venkat</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/06/29/liquid-sand/comment-page-1/#comment-80912</link>
		<dc:creator>venkat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 11:33:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/06/29/liquid-sand/#comment-80912</guid>
		<description>what made you imagine that falling sand is a simple system?!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>what made you imagine that falling sand is a simple system?!</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/06/29/liquid-sand/comment-page-1/#comment-80867</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 02:41:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/06/29/liquid-sand/#comment-80867</guid>
		<description>Thanks Florine!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Florine!</p>
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		<title>By: Florine</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/06/29/liquid-sand/comment-page-1/#comment-80828</link>
		<dc:creator>Florine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 19:54:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/06/29/liquid-sand/#comment-80828</guid>
		<description>A longer video with some explanation is over here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfYPJZCSI-E</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A longer video with some explanation is over here: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfYPJZCSI-E" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfYPJZCSI-E</a></p>
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		<title>By: gopher65</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/06/29/liquid-sand/comment-page-1/#comment-80792</link>
		<dc:creator>gopher65</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:53:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/06/29/liquid-sand/#comment-80792</guid>
		<description>My first guess at this is that it&#039;s caused by airflow. The sand falls, and as it does, it chaotically gets pushed into regions with the least flow resistance (lowest air pressure as seen in an area cross section of any particular point in the stream of sand).

In the first few milliseconds this would be a small effect, as there would only be minor differences between the air pressure in one region and another, but as time went on you&#039;d see more and more sand being forced into smaller regions, forming &quot;droplets&quot;.

That&#039;s a completely different mechanism from the way water or mercury forms droplets though, which has to do with cohesion and surface tension.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My first guess at this is that it&#8217;s caused by airflow. The sand falls, and as it does, it chaotically gets pushed into regions with the least flow resistance (lowest air pressure as seen in an area cross section of any particular point in the stream of sand).</p>
<p>In the first few milliseconds this would be a small effect, as there would only be minor differences between the air pressure in one region and another, but as time went on you&#8217;d see more and more sand being forced into smaller regions, forming &#8220;droplets&#8221;.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s a completely different mechanism from the way water or mercury forms droplets though, which has to do with cohesion and surface tension.</p>
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		<title>By: chowder</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/06/29/liquid-sand/comment-page-1/#comment-80749</link>
		<dc:creator>chowder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 03:52:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/06/29/liquid-sand/#comment-80749</guid>
		<description>It seems to me that the droplets must be very delicate; if there were crosswinds of any kind, the whole effect would be ruined.  I don&#039;t think sand is as sticky as water.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems to me that the droplets must be very delicate; if there were crosswinds of any kind, the whole effect would be ruined.  I don&#8217;t think sand is as sticky as water.</p>
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		<title>By: coolstar</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/06/29/liquid-sand/comment-page-1/#comment-80731</link>
		<dc:creator>coolstar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 00:49:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/06/29/liquid-sand/#comment-80731</guid>
		<description>Both videos are very interesting, though the second isn&#039;t all that surprising and is probably well known to people who study hypervelocity collisions, the first certainly is surprising.  One has to wonder how electrostatic charges on the grains matter in the first one and if you&#039;d see the same effect in a vacuum.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Both videos are very interesting, though the second isn&#8217;t all that surprising and is probably well known to people who study hypervelocity collisions, the first certainly is surprising.  One has to wonder how electrostatic charges on the grains matter in the first one and if you&#8217;d see the same effect in a vacuum.</p>
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		<title>By: Toiski</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/06/29/liquid-sand/comment-page-1/#comment-80713</link>
		<dc:creator>Toiski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 21:47:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/06/29/liquid-sand/#comment-80713</guid>
		<description>Is the sand in the first video falling through a void or through air? Would it make any difference?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is the sand in the first video falling through a void or through air? Would it make any difference?</p>
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		<title>By: cmt</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/06/29/liquid-sand/comment-page-1/#comment-80701</link>
		<dc:creator>cmt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 18:05:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/06/29/liquid-sand/#comment-80701</guid>
		<description>Just to underscore the weirdness of the movie of the sand pearling, the same forces that drive pearling in water also tend to result in spherical droplets so as to minimize surface area. Those drops, once formed, do not appear to change shape at all to me.

Anyway, thanks for highlighting an area of physics that often gets too little attention, and too few interested students.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just to underscore the weirdness of the movie of the sand pearling, the same forces that drive pearling in water also tend to result in spherical droplets so as to minimize surface area. Those drops, once formed, do not appear to change shape at all to me.</p>
<p>Anyway, thanks for highlighting an area of physics that often gets too little attention, and too few interested students.</p>
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		<title>By: Dennis</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/06/29/liquid-sand/comment-page-1/#comment-80693</link>
		<dc:creator>Dennis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 16:12:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/06/29/liquid-sand/#comment-80693</guid>
		<description>I once had some grout powder in a can that, when you tapped the side of the can, the surface of the powder rippled exactly like water. Unfortunately, I don&#039;t know the composition of that particular example, but the powder was extremely fine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I once had some grout powder in a can that, when you tapped the side of the can, the surface of the powder rippled exactly like water. Unfortunately, I don&#8217;t know the composition of that particular example, but the powder was extremely fine.</p>
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		<title>By: Liquid Sand &#124; Cure Insomnia And Get Rid Of Sleepless Nights</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/06/29/liquid-sand/comment-page-1/#comment-80692</link>
		<dc:creator>Liquid Sand &#124; Cure Insomnia And Get Rid Of Sleepless Nights</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 15:25:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/06/29/liquid-sand/#comment-80692</guid>
		<description>[...] the original here: Liquid Sand &#160;Mail this postPopularity: 2% [?]SHARETHIS.addEntry({ title: &quot;Liquid Sand&quot;, url: [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the original here: Liquid Sand &nbsp;Mail this postPopularity: 2% [?]SHARETHIS.addEntry({ title: &#8220;Liquid Sand&#8221;, url: [...]</p>
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