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	<title>Comments on: One Small Step</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/07/20/one-small-step/</link>
	<description>Random samplings from a universe of ideas.</description>
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		<title>By: Count Iblis</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/07/20/one-small-step/comment-page-1/#comment-85394</link>
		<dc:creator>Count Iblis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 23:10:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/07/20/one-small-step/#comment-85394</guid>
		<description>Jason, perhaps I&#039;m wrong, but I would guess that the government spending x dollars employing many scientist who would be developing robots to explore Mars would lead to less CO2 emissions than if those same x dollars were to remain in the hands of the people (because of lower taxes).


Jim, ancient Egypt developed from a simple civilization to a superpower because they diverted much of their economic output to build the pyramids. The pyramids themselves were useless, but the effort that went into building led to a more advanced bureacratic system.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jason, perhaps I&#8217;m wrong, but I would guess that the government spending x dollars employing many scientist who would be developing robots to explore Mars would lead to less CO2 emissions than if those same x dollars were to remain in the hands of the people (because of lower taxes).</p>
<p>Jim, ancient Egypt developed from a simple civilization to a superpower because they diverted much of their economic output to build the pyramids. The pyramids themselves were useless, but the effort that went into building led to a more advanced bureacratic system.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Harrison</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/07/20/one-small-step/comment-page-1/#comment-85336</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Harrison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 20:12:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/07/20/one-small-step/#comment-85336</guid>
		<description>I get the same melancholic feeling looking at Armstrong&#039;s footprint as I do thinking about paleolithic grave sites where a handful of shells and beads have been left on the remains of a child. Both vestiges are protests against mortality. The fantasy of manned space flight is a counterfactual assertion of a cosmic destiny for our species just as funeral customs reflect the equally vain hope of personal survival.  Unless we find some pretty fundamental loopholes in the limitations that physics puts on technology, we are never going to go to the stars. I assume we could put men on Mars at immense expense, but then I guess the Egyptians could have built a pyramid even larger than the pyramid of Cheops. Meanwhile, for the record, teflon was invented in the 1930s.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I get the same melancholic feeling looking at Armstrong&#8217;s footprint as I do thinking about paleolithic grave sites where a handful of shells and beads have been left on the remains of a child. Both vestiges are protests against mortality. The fantasy of manned space flight is a counterfactual assertion of a cosmic destiny for our species just as funeral customs reflect the equally vain hope of personal survival.  Unless we find some pretty fundamental loopholes in the limitations that physics puts on technology, we are never going to go to the stars. I assume we could put men on Mars at immense expense, but then I guess the Egyptians could have built a pyramid even larger than the pyramid of Cheops. Meanwhile, for the record, teflon was invented in the 1930s.</p>
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		<title>By: Metre</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/07/20/one-small-step/comment-page-1/#comment-85279</link>
		<dc:creator>Metre</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 18:02:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/07/20/one-small-step/#comment-85279</guid>
		<description>@tony #12

Have a glass of wine, hug your child, enjoy life.  What&#039;s wrong with more and better TV channels and cell phone communications?  What&#039;s wrong with weather satellites and GPS?  These by-products of the space age have improved our lives.  What will make manned space exploration work is the potential to make money - and there&#039;s nothing wrong with that. Columbus didn&#039;t discover the new world out of scientific curiosity, he did it to find a shorter route to the markets and wealth of the Orient.  The sooner investors can see the profit potential of space exploration, the sooner it will happen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@tony #12</p>
<p>Have a glass of wine, hug your child, enjoy life.  What&#8217;s wrong with more and better TV channels and cell phone communications?  What&#8217;s wrong with weather satellites and GPS?  These by-products of the space age have improved our lives.  What will make manned space exploration work is the potential to make money &#8211; and there&#8217;s nothing wrong with that. Columbus didn&#8217;t discover the new world out of scientific curiosity, he did it to find a shorter route to the markets and wealth of the Orient.  The sooner investors can see the profit potential of space exploration, the sooner it will happen.</p>
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		<title>By: Hiranya</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/07/20/one-small-step/comment-page-1/#comment-85238</link>
		<dc:creator>Hiranya</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 15:54:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/07/20/one-small-step/#comment-85238</guid>
		<description>It really bothers me that no one has left low Earth orbit in my lifetime. What someone wrote above is right - to imagine that one has to support either science or space exploration is to stay in the box in which we have been put. If a fraction of the cost of useless/destructive war machines around the world was put into either, there will be ample room for both.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It really bothers me that no one has left low Earth orbit in my lifetime. What someone wrote above is right &#8211; to imagine that one has to support either science or space exploration is to stay in the box in which we have been put. If a fraction of the cost of useless/destructive war machines around the world was put into either, there will be ample room for both.</p>
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		<title>By: tony</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/07/20/one-small-step/comment-page-1/#comment-85207</link>
		<dc:creator>tony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 14:09:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/07/20/one-small-step/#comment-85207</guid>
		<description>Do you know how the 40th anniversary of the moon landing makes me feel?  Angry.  Very very angry.

I am angry at the generation who decided not to go back, and I am angrier at the generation that was inspired by it as children, and then used space to squeeze more channels of television into our living rooms.   I am angry that we did this, and then basically that was it.   

I was born 5 years after the moon landing and in my life time no man has set foot on the moon.  In all of the wonder of what we achieved is the stunning failure to make those trips mean anything other than a gold star on the cold war score board.   It makes those trips meaningless and insufferable political stunts that just happened to have some value to some kooky scientists somewhere...

We have to go back to the moon and beyond, but everyone just whines about it - Its too hard, too costly, too dangerous.  Yes.  it is all of those things.  But it is the naysayers who want those things to stand in the way that are truly the greatest encumbrance to future achievements.  Overcoming the stagnancy of the current generation in power, who doesnt do anything that doesnt provide instant gratification, that doesnt understand the concept of sacrifice and perseverance will possibly be even a greater achievement than putting a boot print in the red soil of Mars.  

Yes I am bitter.  I pray that my one month old son wont be writing a similar message on a blog at the 50th or any future anniversary of this great travesty.  I am not currently hopeful.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do you know how the 40th anniversary of the moon landing makes me feel?  Angry.  Very very angry.</p>
<p>I am angry at the generation who decided not to go back, and I am angrier at the generation that was inspired by it as children, and then used space to squeeze more channels of television into our living rooms.   I am angry that we did this, and then basically that was it.   </p>
<p>I was born 5 years after the moon landing and in my life time no man has set foot on the moon.  In all of the wonder of what we achieved is the stunning failure to make those trips mean anything other than a gold star on the cold war score board.   It makes those trips meaningless and insufferable political stunts that just happened to have some value to some kooky scientists somewhere&#8230;</p>
<p>We have to go back to the moon and beyond, but everyone just whines about it &#8211; Its too hard, too costly, too dangerous.  Yes.  it is all of those things.  But it is the naysayers who want those things to stand in the way that are truly the greatest encumbrance to future achievements.  Overcoming the stagnancy of the current generation in power, who doesnt do anything that doesnt provide instant gratification, that doesnt understand the concept of sacrifice and perseverance will possibly be even a greater achievement than putting a boot print in the red soil of Mars.  </p>
<p>Yes I am bitter.  I pray that my one month old son wont be writing a similar message on a blog at the 50th or any future anniversary of this great travesty.  I am not currently hopeful.</p>
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		<title>By: Metre</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/07/20/one-small-step/comment-page-1/#comment-85161</link>
		<dc:creator>Metre</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 11:48:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/07/20/one-small-step/#comment-85161</guid>
		<description>Whenever my teenaged son makes fun of how low tech my generation is, I remind him that men have walked on the moon in my lifetime, but not in his.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whenever my teenaged son makes fun of how low tech my generation is, I remind him that men have walked on the moon in my lifetime, but not in his.</p>
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		<title>By: mat roberts</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/07/20/one-small-step/comment-page-1/#comment-85136</link>
		<dc:creator>mat roberts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 10:21:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/07/20/one-small-step/#comment-85136</guid>
		<description>I was born in 1969, and as a kid I though visiting Mars was just around the corner.  As time has gone on, I have come to appreciate just what a huge engineering achievement putting a man on the moon was.  And how far ahead of its time it was.  I&#039;m certain the 50th anniversary will pass without another man on the moon.  It could well be towards the 100th anniversary before its done again.
Awe aside though (they put a car up there!),  I&#039;m with you on manned space flight.  I think unmanned probes are a much better way to do science.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was born in 1969, and as a kid I though visiting Mars was just around the corner.  As time has gone on, I have come to appreciate just what a huge engineering achievement putting a man on the moon was.  And how far ahead of its time it was.  I&#8217;m certain the 50th anniversary will pass without another man on the moon.  It could well be towards the 100th anniversary before its done again.<br />
Awe aside though (they put a car up there!),  I&#8217;m with you on manned space flight.  I think unmanned probes are a much better way to do science.</p>
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		<title>By: 减震器</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/07/20/one-small-step/comment-page-1/#comment-85021</link>
		<dc:creator>减震器</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 04:47:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/07/20/one-small-step/#comment-85021</guid>
		<description>Tastes differ.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tastes differ.</p>
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		<title>By: RCHughes</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/07/20/one-small-step/comment-page-1/#comment-85020</link>
		<dc:creator>RCHughes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 04:39:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/07/20/one-small-step/#comment-85020</guid>
		<description>&lt;quote&gt;My current view is that while there may be a reasonable argument for the manned space program on the basis of exploration (and I find the idea exciting myself), it is hard to make a scientific argument for it.&lt;/quote&gt;

This is only true if you define science very narrowly to mean planetary science.  Even then it&#039;s a a short-sighted position to hold.

The most important reason to put people into space is to get better at doing it.  

Granted, today or even ten or twenty or fifty years from now you&#039;ll get more value for your scientific buck with automated probes.  But if you had the choice today of having a team of trained scientists with rovers, on-site laboratories and whatever other tools they&#039;d need, living on Mars for years at a time or another round of probes scratching at the surface which would you choose?   Without the cost and risk considerations it&#039;s a no-brainer.

If our goal is ultimately to have people in space then we better figure out how to do it.  The only way to get better at putting people into space is to keep putting people into space.  

There seems to be a popular misconception that since we&#039;ve been to the moon once, the technology is old hat, but we&#039;ve got loads to learn about launch vehicles and landers and shuttles and rovers and habitats and self-sustaining life support and the long term effects of extraterrestrial environments on humans, animals and plants etc. etc. etc.  After all we didn&#039;t leap directly from papyrus coracles to the Santa Maria.  

Is it going to be expensive?  Yes, but all that money is spent in the U.S. and compared to everything else we go into debt for at least our grandchildren can expect some return on this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><quote>My current view is that while there may be a reasonable argument for the manned space program on the basis of exploration (and I find the idea exciting myself), it is hard to make a scientific argument for it.</quote></p>
<p>This is only true if you define science very narrowly to mean planetary science.  Even then it&#8217;s a a short-sighted position to hold.</p>
<p>The most important reason to put people into space is to get better at doing it.  </p>
<p>Granted, today or even ten or twenty or fifty years from now you&#8217;ll get more value for your scientific buck with automated probes.  But if you had the choice today of having a team of trained scientists with rovers, on-site laboratories and whatever other tools they&#8217;d need, living on Mars for years at a time or another round of probes scratching at the surface which would you choose?   Without the cost and risk considerations it&#8217;s a no-brainer.</p>
<p>If our goal is ultimately to have people in space then we better figure out how to do it.  The only way to get better at putting people into space is to keep putting people into space.  </p>
<p>There seems to be a popular misconception that since we&#8217;ve been to the moon once, the technology is old hat, but we&#8217;ve got loads to learn about launch vehicles and landers and shuttles and rovers and habitats and self-sustaining life support and the long term effects of extraterrestrial environments on humans, animals and plants etc. etc. etc.  After all we didn&#8217;t leap directly from papyrus coracles to the Santa Maria.  </p>
<p>Is it going to be expensive?  Yes, but all that money is spent in the U.S. and compared to everything else we go into debt for at least our grandchildren can expect some return on this.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Dick</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/07/20/one-small-step/comment-page-1/#comment-84969</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Dick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 01:34:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/07/20/one-small-step/#comment-84969</guid>
		<description>This last part I don&#039;t buy, Count Iblis:
&lt;blockquote&gt;It would also be good for the environment, because people will have less money to spend, so there will be less CO2 emissions.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
In your scenario, people would be spending on science instead of war.  The same overall amount of economic activity would ensue, and thus the same general level of CO2 emission.  One can&#039;t really change CO2 emission by much just by changing what is produced.  To change CO2 emission we have to change where we get the energy that drives our economy.  Conservation helps too, of course.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This last part I don&#8217;t buy, Count Iblis:</p>
<blockquote><p>It would also be good for the environment, because people will have less money to spend, so there will be less CO2 emissions.</p></blockquote>
<p>In your scenario, people would be spending on science instead of war.  The same overall amount of economic activity would ensue, and thus the same general level of CO2 emission.  One can&#8217;t really change CO2 emission by much just by changing what is produced.  To change CO2 emission we have to change where we get the energy that drives our economy.  Conservation helps too, of course.</p>
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