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	<title>Comments on: Suicide</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/07/27/suicide/</link>
	<description>Random samplings from a universe of ideas.</description>
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		<title>By: Study &#38; Money &#187; Blog Archive &#187; &#8220;I&#8217;m a grad student at Caltech&#8230;</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/07/27/suicide/comment-page-1/#comment-92460</link>
		<dc:creator>Study &#38; Money &#187; Blog Archive &#187; &#8220;I&#8217;m a grad student at Caltech&#8230;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Aug 2009 21:15:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/07/27/suicide/#comment-92460</guid>
		<description>[...] I didn’t know any of the students personally, but it’s still scary when this kind of thing goes on around you. And three in a few months seems [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I didn’t know any of the students personally, but it’s still scary when this kind of thing goes on around you. And three in a few months seems [...]</p>
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		<title>By: University Diaries &#187; &#8220;I&#8217;m a grad student at Caltech&#8230;</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/07/27/suicide/comment-page-1/#comment-92455</link>
		<dc:creator>University Diaries &#187; &#8220;I&#8217;m a grad student at Caltech&#8230;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Aug 2009 20:40:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/07/27/suicide/#comment-92455</guid>
		<description>[...] I didn’t know any of the students personally, but it’s still scary when this kind of thing goes on around you. And three in a few months seems [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I didn’t know any of the students personally, but it’s still scary when this kind of thing goes on around you. And three in a few months seems [...]</p>
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		<title>By: john</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/07/27/suicide/comment-page-1/#comment-90301</link>
		<dc:creator>john</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 14:09:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/07/27/suicide/#comment-90301</guid>
		<description>Hi,

I notice you used the word &#039;themself&#039; instead of &#039;himself&#039;. From what I could gather from caltech&#039;s website, the suicide victim was male. A google search reveals that for men the suicide rate is currently twice that of women. 

While you seem very motivated about increasing the number of women in physics, it seems to me that you and people in general aren&#039;t as concerned about reducing the number of men commiting suicide, or in fact even treating it as a gender issue - one which perhaps needs to be addressed from a male perspective. 

I am saying this because it is a point that means something to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi,</p>
<p>I notice you used the word &#8216;themself&#8217; instead of &#8216;himself&#8217;. From what I could gather from caltech&#8217;s website, the suicide victim was male. A google search reveals that for men the suicide rate is currently twice that of women. </p>
<p>While you seem very motivated about increasing the number of women in physics, it seems to me that you and people in general aren&#8217;t as concerned about reducing the number of men commiting suicide, or in fact even treating it as a gender issue &#8211; one which perhaps needs to be addressed from a male perspective. </p>
<p>I am saying this because it is a point that means something to me.</p>
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		<title>By: mary</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/07/27/suicide/comment-page-1/#comment-90214</link>
		<dc:creator>mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Aug 2009 06:42:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/07/27/suicide/#comment-90214</guid>
		<description>Andrew : I agree with you completely. Faculty don&#039;t police their own because the abusive ones are usually renowned or highly respected in their fields of research. Most faculty don&#039;t have the guts to do anything...especially if they are not tenured (for good reason). For example if the abusive faculty member is a Nobel Laureate, there is pretty much nothing anyone can do...it is too important for the institution to be able claim on their brochures that their department has a Nobel Laureate. And usually the rest of the faculty are too busy trying to impress the Nobel Laureate like a bunch of 
star-struck preteens. 

There really needs to be an external body &quot;with teeth&quot; that can take serious action against abusive faculty members. Some sort of an ethics committee that can take serious action. The DOE does have such a panel, but it has no teeth...they usually come every year and ask grad students about any grievances and write a report...but of course nothing is actually done.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew : I agree with you completely. Faculty don&#8217;t police their own because the abusive ones are usually renowned or highly respected in their fields of research. Most faculty don&#8217;t have the guts to do anything&#8230;especially if they are not tenured (for good reason). For example if the abusive faculty member is a Nobel Laureate, there is pretty much nothing anyone can do&#8230;it is too important for the institution to be able claim on their brochures that their department has a Nobel Laureate. And usually the rest of the faculty are too busy trying to impress the Nobel Laureate like a bunch of<br />
star-struck preteens. </p>
<p>There really needs to be an external body &#8220;with teeth&#8221; that can take serious action against abusive faculty members. Some sort of an ethics committee that can take serious action. The DOE does have such a panel, but it has no teeth&#8230;they usually come every year and ask grad students about any grievances and write a report&#8230;but of course nothing is actually done.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/07/27/suicide/comment-page-1/#comment-90014</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Aug 2009 16:22:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/07/27/suicide/#comment-90014</guid>
		<description>As a recent grad of Caltech (two months ago), I find that faculty members are not only part of the solution, but are part of the problem.  They know which colleagues are abusive and still they do nothing to police their own.  Until faculty members step up to the plate, the suicides will continue.  The most current lab to have a grad student commit suicide had an attempted suicide a few months back.  Members of the faculty certainly knew this and did nothing to institute any sort of safety net.  Caltech is a stressful place as it is.  I recognize that some students can&#039;t handle the stress very well, but it does not help when faculty members are adding to the stress by either not being supportive or being downright abusive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a recent grad of Caltech (two months ago), I find that faculty members are not only part of the solution, but are part of the problem.  They know which colleagues are abusive and still they do nothing to police their own.  Until faculty members step up to the plate, the suicides will continue.  The most current lab to have a grad student commit suicide had an attempted suicide a few months back.  Members of the faculty certainly knew this and did nothing to institute any sort of safety net.  Caltech is a stressful place as it is.  I recognize that some students can&#8217;t handle the stress very well, but it does not help when faculty members are adding to the stress by either not being supportive or being downright abusive.</p>
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		<title>By: USS Kevin</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/07/27/suicide/comment-page-1/#comment-89614</link>
		<dc:creator>USS Kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Aug 2009 16:19:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/07/27/suicide/#comment-89614</guid>
		<description>I am not being the least bit flippant or ignorant when I say that people in academia, teachers and students, should all see the 1985 film Real Genius.  

The film revolves around very smart students at a high-pressure university (modeled on Caltech ironicall enough) who finally say screw it to the very same problems listed in this thread.  The main character is seen as a goofball slacker but the truth is, he probably saved his own life and those of his fellow students.

Remember when learning was fun?  Seeing what I know about academia makes me glad I never went into it.  I might not have been suicidal but become more proactive in my reaction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am not being the least bit flippant or ignorant when I say that people in academia, teachers and students, should all see the 1985 film Real Genius.  </p>
<p>The film revolves around very smart students at a high-pressure university (modeled on Caltech ironicall enough) who finally say screw it to the very same problems listed in this thread.  The main character is seen as a goofball slacker but the truth is, he probably saved his own life and those of his fellow students.</p>
<p>Remember when learning was fun?  Seeing what I know about academia makes me glad I never went into it.  I might not have been suicidal but become more proactive in my reaction.</p>
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		<title>By: Fourteener</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/07/27/suicide/comment-page-1/#comment-88290</link>
		<dc:creator>Fourteener</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 23:33:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/07/27/suicide/#comment-88290</guid>
		<description>A young person&#039;s suicide may be the best choice for some individuals, but it&#039;s seldom the best choice for the family, for societies, or for civilization.   I worked that out as a 13-year old, setting in a maple tree with a rope around my neck.  I&#039;m 61 now and have almost never regretted not jumping.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A young person&#8217;s suicide may be the best choice for some individuals, but it&#8217;s seldom the best choice for the family, for societies, or for civilization.   I worked that out as a 13-year old, setting in a maple tree with a rope around my neck.  I&#8217;m 61 now and have almost never regretted not jumping.</p>
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		<title>By: hendrix</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/07/27/suicide/comment-page-1/#comment-88052</link>
		<dc:creator>hendrix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 10:04:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/07/27/suicide/#comment-88052</guid>
		<description>boomer: ok... I see your point. I agree with parts of it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>boomer: ok&#8230; I see your point. I agree with parts of it.</p>
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		<title>By: boomer</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/07/27/suicide/comment-page-1/#comment-87761</link>
		<dc:creator>boomer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jul 2009 15:40:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/07/27/suicide/#comment-87761</guid>
		<description>Hendrix: I was simply responding to all the people on here commenting that suicidal people are &quot;mentally ill&quot; or &quot;irrational&quot;. This is highly annoying and I needed to point out that a lot of suicidal people are of sound mind and judgement and know what they are doing. 

Furthermore, it is the ones who keep repeating that &quot;things will get better&quot; and &quot;life is beautiful&quot; ad nauseam that are actually irrational...a lot of these people are religious and hold out hope that god will come and perform some miracle to make everything ok...or usually they forget their problems after seeing a beautiful sunset feeling suddenly &quot;enlightened&quot; about the beauty of life;  even though it has nothing to do with their problems. These same people go around calling suicidal people irrational which is just laughable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hendrix: I was simply responding to all the people on here commenting that suicidal people are &#8220;mentally ill&#8221; or &#8220;irrational&#8221;. This is highly annoying and I needed to point out that a lot of suicidal people are of sound mind and judgement and know what they are doing. </p>
<p>Furthermore, it is the ones who keep repeating that &#8220;things will get better&#8221; and &#8220;life is beautiful&#8221; ad nauseam that are actually irrational&#8230;a lot of these people are religious and hold out hope that god will come and perform some miracle to make everything ok&#8230;or usually they forget their problems after seeing a beautiful sunset feeling suddenly &#8220;enlightened&#8221; about the beauty of life;  even though it has nothing to do with their problems. These same people go around calling suicidal people irrational which is just laughable.</p>
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		<title>By: Former Tech Student</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/07/27/suicide/comment-page-1/#comment-87759</link>
		<dc:creator>Former Tech Student</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jul 2009 15:29:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/07/27/suicide/#comment-87759</guid>
		<description>As a former undergrad at CalTech (early 2000s) I have seen the worst and the best of the acedemic and social systems there. I love and I hate CalTech.

Academia
1. Solving difficult problems doesn&#039;t teach one science-it just tires one out. Subsequently, I discovered that simple problems can bring out insight and lasting understanding that are completely lost in reduandant, convoluted computational tricks. And thus, when solving a problem, I always return to my 5-th grade learnings and move from there. There goes my highly-recognized advanced degree!  
2. Having professors who&#039;d rather be doing research is not inspirational. I&#039;d rather work with people who see me as a future contributor, and not as a dummy monkey that can be trained to type. The one thing that absolutely lacks in Caltech is the one-on-one with professors, the discussions...Everything is set in stone! Devine inspiration!
3. But it is exactly that highly recognized degree that go me through to good outside-the-bubble folks. The experience was so bad for me that I learned to love my outside-of-the-bubble normal life today! Thank you Caltech.
4.Caltech collects a lot of bright people. And just for that, even though enough are arrogant, it is still worthwhile acquainting them. 

Social Growth:
1. Given that overwhelming amount of time is spent either crunching numbers or soldering things in a lab, there is not much to say about social activities. 
2. But what was hidden from me for three years was uncovered in my last year there. There is plenty to do, to get you out of the academic pressure, even for a few hours a day, or a week. And this could be enough. There are excellent music programs open to everyone. There are excellent athletic programs, also open to everyone. There are volunteer opportunities open to everyone. And everything is so open to everyone, it is stunning that it is so difficult to learn about these opportunities. I did not know how to swim, and I learned. I couldn&#039;t say the difference between feel and fill, and now I can. I didn&#039;t know how to tie-die, now I know. There is a lot to do besides academia, and if the balance is discovered, life at CalTech can be a bliss. It is just that balance is not the priority at that school. But it should be the bible-lecture not only there, but everywhere.

Once experience is above mental development. It&#039;s physical, emotional. True, there are enough nutty nobel prize winners, but not all prize winners are nuts. There are enough perfectly normal people among them, and maybe CalTech&#039;s admission should start remembering that...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a former undergrad at CalTech (early 2000s) I have seen the worst and the best of the acedemic and social systems there. I love and I hate CalTech.</p>
<p>Academia<br />
1. Solving difficult problems doesn&#8217;t teach one science-it just tires one out. Subsequently, I discovered that simple problems can bring out insight and lasting understanding that are completely lost in reduandant, convoluted computational tricks. And thus, when solving a problem, I always return to my 5-th grade learnings and move from there. There goes my highly-recognized advanced degree!<br />
2. Having professors who&#8217;d rather be doing research is not inspirational. I&#8217;d rather work with people who see me as a future contributor, and not as a dummy monkey that can be trained to type. The one thing that absolutely lacks in Caltech is the one-on-one with professors, the discussions&#8230;Everything is set in stone! Devine inspiration!<br />
3. But it is exactly that highly recognized degree that go me through to good outside-the-bubble folks. The experience was so bad for me that I learned to love my outside-of-the-bubble normal life today! Thank you Caltech.<br />
4.Caltech collects a lot of bright people. And just for that, even though enough are arrogant, it is still worthwhile acquainting them. </p>
<p>Social Growth:<br />
1. Given that overwhelming amount of time is spent either crunching numbers or soldering things in a lab, there is not much to say about social activities.<br />
2. But what was hidden from me for three years was uncovered in my last year there. There is plenty to do, to get you out of the academic pressure, even for a few hours a day, or a week. And this could be enough. There are excellent music programs open to everyone. There are excellent athletic programs, also open to everyone. There are volunteer opportunities open to everyone. And everything is so open to everyone, it is stunning that it is so difficult to learn about these opportunities. I did not know how to swim, and I learned. I couldn&#8217;t say the difference between feel and fill, and now I can. I didn&#8217;t know how to tie-die, now I know. There is a lot to do besides academia, and if the balance is discovered, life at CalTech can be a bliss. It is just that balance is not the priority at that school. But it should be the bible-lecture not only there, but everywhere.</p>
<p>Once experience is above mental development. It&#8217;s physical, emotional. True, there are enough nutty nobel prize winners, but not all prize winners are nuts. There are enough perfectly normal people among them, and maybe CalTech&#8217;s admission should start remembering that&#8230;</p>
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