I notice you used the word ‘themself’ instead of ‘himself’. From what I could gather from caltech’s website, the suicide victim was male. A google search reveals that for men the suicide rate is currently twice that of women.

While you seem very motivated about increasing the number of women in physics, it seems to me that you and people in general aren’t as concerned about reducing the number of men commiting suicide, or in fact even treating it as a gender issue – one which perhaps needs to be addressed from a male perspective.

I am saying this because it is a point that means something to me.

There really needs to be an external body “with teeth” that can take serious action against abusive faculty members. Some sort of an ethics committee that can take serious action. The DOE does have such a panel, but it has no teeth…they usually come every year and ask grad students about any grievances and write a report…but of course nothing is actually done.

The film revolves around very smart students at a high-pressure university (modeled on Caltech ironicall enough) who finally say screw it to the very same problems listed in this thread. The main character is seen as a goofball slacker but the truth is, he probably saved his own life and those of his fellow students.

Remember when learning was fun? Seeing what I know about academia makes me glad I never went into it. I might not have been suicidal but become more proactive in my reaction.

Furthermore, it is the ones who keep repeating that “things will get better” and “life is beautiful” ad nauseam that are actually irrational…a lot of these people are religious and hold out hope that god will come and perform some miracle to make everything ok…or usually they forget their problems after seeing a beautiful sunset feeling suddenly “enlightened” about the beauty of life; even though it has nothing to do with their problems. These same people go around calling suicidal people irrational which is just laughable.

Academia
1. Solving difficult problems doesn’t teach one science-it just tires one out. Subsequently, I discovered that simple problems can bring out insight and lasting understanding that are completely lost in reduandant, convoluted computational tricks. And thus, when solving a problem, I always return to my 5-th grade learnings and move from there. There goes my highly-recognized advanced degree!
2. Having professors who’d rather be doing research is not inspirational. I’d rather work with people who see me as a future contributor, and not as a dummy monkey that can be trained to type. The one thing that absolutely lacks in Caltech is the one-on-one with professors, the discussions…Everything is set in stone! Devine inspiration!
3. But it is exactly that highly recognized degree that go me through to good outside-the-bubble folks. The experience was so bad for me that I learned to love my outside-of-the-bubble normal life today! Thank you Caltech.
4.Caltech collects a lot of bright people. And just for that, even though enough are arrogant, it is still worthwhile acquainting them.

Social Growth:
1. Given that overwhelming amount of time is spent either crunching numbers or soldering things in a lab, there is not much to say about social activities.
2. But what was hidden from me for three years was uncovered in my last year there. There is plenty to do, to get you out of the academic pressure, even for a few hours a day, or a week. And this could be enough. There are excellent music programs open to everyone. There are excellent athletic programs, also open to everyone. There are volunteer opportunities open to everyone. And everything is so open to everyone, it is stunning that it is so difficult to learn about these opportunities. I did not know how to swim, and I learned. I couldn’t say the difference between feel and fill, and now I can. I didn’t know how to tie-die, now I know. There is a lot to do besides academia, and if the balance is discovered, life at CalTech can be a bliss. It is just that balance is not the priority at that school. But it should be the bible-lecture not only there, but everywhere.

Once experience is above mental development. It’s physical, emotional. True, there are enough nutty nobel prize winners, but not all prize winners are nuts. There are enough perfectly normal people among them, and maybe CalTech’s admission should start remembering that…

Suicide is always an option, of course. But you neglect (rational!) people that suffered a lot in life, in many ways, and chose to live (and perhaps make difference and be happy as possible). I bet there are millions of examples around (e.g., see the great post by steve above!). Personally, I like these stories and not the ones about suicide. I give much more credit to these people rather than the ones that gave up everything.

p.s. And yes, I forgot to mention, I passed several hard problems in my life. A new one (big, unfortunately) just arrived.

Thanks for starting this important discussion. My perception reading the comments is that there is a significant difference between the comments made by the people with direct experience of suicide and those without. The latter tend to talk about abstract mental models of the situation which may or may not be relevant. The former speak from experience and for me at least are much more compelling and insightful, and I thank them for commenting since I suspect it is much harder for them to speak out and yet they potentially offer the deepest understanding.

My other, slightly off-topic, comment is that for me this discussion is the tragic tail of a much more general problem in academia – the lack of balance, for want of a better term. This applies quite generally from students to professors and which reflects in the harsh attitudes of some professors along the lines of “I made it through that hell and I turned out OK/great, so it can’t be that bad/is good”.

As a final note: if we select as professors those who have excelled in the highest-pressure, competitive academic environments around, are we surprised when they have little or no understanding or empathy – yet alone sympathy – for those who are struggling?

I point to an up-coming workshop on this aspect of the problem:

http://sites.google.com/site/worklifebalanceinastronomy2009/

Bruce

Yes, “seek help” is cheap and easy advice, but it is still very important to give it. Everyone should know how and feel comfortable talking to someone about their problems. However, efforts to encourage depressed people to seek help don’t work for people currently at risk of suicide. Potential suicides are not “willing to reach out.” They are generally beyond self-help. That is why the institutional aspect is crucial to preventing suicide.

The last slide says it well: Everyone is part of the safety net. Be alert and aware. Communicate your concerns (about someone else) to someone who can help.

Also, telling someone at risk of suicide to buck up, look at the bright side, you have all these things to live for, etc. will likely make the person feel worse. They can’t believe these things. Pointing out why they should feel good only highlights how differently they feel about the situation. (There is lots of research showing that people with low self-esteem feel worse when told positive things about themselves) The best thing to do is talk to a mental health resource about the person.

Furthermore, irrational people will be swayed by the silliest thing and avoid suicide. For example, if the woman described in the above paragraph were to be sitting on a hillside watching the sunset…if she were irrational, she would conclude something like “wow, the sunset is so beautiful…this alone is reason to live! yay!” Only an irrational person can forget all the problems in their lives because of a stupid sunset and avoid suicide. Seriously, stupidity is the key to happiness.

That is true indeed. For people in untreatable physical pain, or perhaps people paralysed from the neck down. Not for you.

As someone who [when a physics student] made a serious suicide attempt, and as someone who has seen his wife die under horrendous circumstances, I can tell you that I will *not* do away with myself as long as I can get up and walk. Because no matter how bad things get, I can always get up and walk out. Start life again somewhere else. Get on a plane to Cambodia and teach English for a living. That option is just as real as suicide, and it is always there. Repeat after me: if things get really intolerable, I will get up and walk out. There is a world elsewhere.

The military requires an annual suicide prevention training for everyone, but you can listen to their training and watch for those signs…but when you still can’t prevent the tragedies…it just hits you each time that maybe there isn’t anything you can do…and THAT is quite depressing.

I mean, doesn’t it make sense that this is why virtually everyone thinks suicide by a physically healthy young person is a tragedy: because we know from widely reported experience that unhappy people (whether from a chemical imbalance in the brain, or as a “rational” reaction to a really bad situation) don’t have to – and virtually never do – stay that way all of their lives.

You have to remember too, I think, that rationality in matters of human experience is not like a set of train tracks that lead to an inevitable conclusion. There is often more than one possible response to a situation that is arguably “rational”, but you have to really examine how your own conclusion is reached (including what assumptions both obvious and not so obvious are involved) to be able to say whether it is the wisest response out of a set of possible, rational ones.

As I say, the possibility, indeed likelihood, of a end to current troubles is a very powerful and rational argument against suicide.

While this is sad, I wonder whether this is specific to college students? I suspect it’s just the age group. At that age, you likely die either from an accident or by suicide. Statistics anybody?

Btw, please read carefully what “random physics student” says above. There is in fact research showing that it’s depressed people who see the world more rational (see Depressive Realism), so be careful when you try to appeal to a person’s rationality, you might be doing exactly the wrong thing.

There are certainly many bad reasons to take one’s life, one of the most common problem that I’ve seen is the attempt to get attention. People who talk about committing suicide might eventually feel like they have to do it just because they announced it. That’s a real problem. Never, ever make fun about somebody who talks about jumping out a window. On the other hand I think that the one and only thing that really belongs to a person is their life, and it’s up to them what they want to do with it. Unless you have good evidence that they might be subject to a temporary and curable confusion of mind, suicide is their decision.

I know that Neptune does not even finish one “lap” around the Sun and all the human beings currently living are dead. But hey, lets not hurry up.