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	<title>Comments on: Astronomical conflagration?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/08/31/astronomical-conflagration/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/08/31/astronomical-conflagration/</link>
	<description>Random samplings from a universe of ideas.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 14 Feb 2012 17:36:54 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Barb</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/08/31/astronomical-conflagration/comment-page-1/#comment-93522</link>
		<dc:creator>Barb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Sep 2009 20:23:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/08/31/astronomical-conflagration/#comment-93522</guid>
		<description>Just finished reading The Lord of the Rings as a family. That night shot sure looks like Mount Doom cloned!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just finished reading The Lord of the Rings as a family. That night shot sure looks like Mount Doom cloned!</p>
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		<title>By: hackenkaus</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/08/31/astronomical-conflagration/comment-page-1/#comment-93371</link>
		<dc:creator>hackenkaus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Sep 2009 00:09:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/08/31/astronomical-conflagration/#comment-93371</guid>
		<description>Drama queen.  So you can see some fires from your house. Perhaps President Palin will appoint you to lead the &quot;Department of Fires&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Drama queen.  So you can see some fires from your house. Perhaps President Palin will appoint you to lead the &#8220;Department of Fires&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/08/31/astronomical-conflagration/comment-page-1/#comment-93202</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 05:45:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/08/31/astronomical-conflagration/#comment-93202</guid>
		<description>Fire is the greatest fear of observatory directors, I believe.

It is in the nature of optical/IR observatories that we want to build them on high mountains in dry climates.  Forest fires are a natural corollary.  In the past few years, even besides the terrifying example of Stromlo, there have been substantial fires on or near Mt Wilson, Palomar, Mt Hamilton, Kitt Peak, Mt Graham and Mt Lemmon, close to Mt Hopkins, and probably on other mountains as well.  Blaming this on some special properties of Los Angeles is beside the point.  The only mountain-top observatories I can think of that are relatively immune to wildfire are those above treeline (like Mauna Kea) or those where the rainfall is so low that the vegetation is too scrubby to support a crown fire (most of the Chilean sites).

What is true is that for most of the 20th century we built too many houses in the path of fires and practiced bad fire suppression policies by stamping out fires wherever possible, leading to buildup of highly flammable undergrowth.  After decades of this, when fires are triggered (naturally or otherwise) they have so much fuel that they crown quickly and spread devastatingly.  Drought makes it worse and the likely direction of climate change is to make the Southwest more arid.

Western land managers understand this better now.  In that respect, large fires are inevitable and not necessarily bad.  That doesn&#039;t mean that we shouldn&#039;t defend Mt Wilson, but it does mean that expanding housing into vulnerable remote areas is a bad idea and that people who live there will have to accept fire as a risk.  This is hard to get people to do because nobody likes to say &quot;Sorry, we can&#039;t keep your house from burning down.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fire is the greatest fear of observatory directors, I believe.</p>
<p>It is in the nature of optical/IR observatories that we want to build them on high mountains in dry climates.  Forest fires are a natural corollary.  In the past few years, even besides the terrifying example of Stromlo, there have been substantial fires on or near Mt Wilson, Palomar, Mt Hamilton, Kitt Peak, Mt Graham and Mt Lemmon, close to Mt Hopkins, and probably on other mountains as well.  Blaming this on some special properties of Los Angeles is beside the point.  The only mountain-top observatories I can think of that are relatively immune to wildfire are those above treeline (like Mauna Kea) or those where the rainfall is so low that the vegetation is too scrubby to support a crown fire (most of the Chilean sites).</p>
<p>What is true is that for most of the 20th century we built too many houses in the path of fires and practiced bad fire suppression policies by stamping out fires wherever possible, leading to buildup of highly flammable undergrowth.  After decades of this, when fires are triggered (naturally or otherwise) they have so much fuel that they crown quickly and spread devastatingly.  Drought makes it worse and the likely direction of climate change is to make the Southwest more arid.</p>
<p>Western land managers understand this better now.  In that respect, large fires are inevitable and not necessarily bad.  That doesn&#8217;t mean that we shouldn&#8217;t defend Mt Wilson, but it does mean that expanding housing into vulnerable remote areas is a bad idea and that people who live there will have to accept fire as a risk.  This is hard to get people to do because nobody likes to say &#8220;Sorry, we can&#8217;t keep your house from burning down.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/08/31/astronomical-conflagration/comment-page-1/#comment-93184</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 03:27:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/08/31/astronomical-conflagration/#comment-93184</guid>
		<description>Serge said: &quot;Wildfires not only unavoidable, they are parts of the natural ecological cycle.&quot; Yes, and fires return nutrients to the soil, while physically removing dead wood does not and permanently removes nutrients.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Serge said: &#8220;Wildfires not only unavoidable, they are parts of the natural ecological cycle.&#8221; Yes, and fires return nutrients to the soil, while physically removing dead wood does not and permanently removes nutrients.</p>
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		<title>By: Lab Lemming</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/08/31/astronomical-conflagration/comment-page-1/#comment-93150</link>
		<dc:creator>Lab Lemming</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 00:10:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/08/31/astronomical-conflagration/#comment-93150</guid>
		<description>&quot;Then you build another big city, LA, right in the middle of earthquake hot zone, something also well-known to man for centuries. &quot;

When, exactly, do you think the nature of transform faulting and plate tectonics was discovered?
Los Angeles was founded in 1769.
The boom was oil related, and occurred in the late 19th and early 20th centuries.

And the photo shows a fantastic pyrocumulus cloud, with the particulate matter being trapped by an inversion that the steam-rich updraft is punching through.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Then you build another big city, LA, right in the middle of earthquake hot zone, something also well-known to man for centuries. &#8221;</p>
<p>When, exactly, do you think the nature of transform faulting and plate tectonics was discovered?<br />
Los Angeles was founded in 1769.<br />
The boom was oil related, and occurred in the late 19th and early 20th centuries.</p>
<p>And the photo shows a fantastic pyrocumulus cloud, with the particulate matter being trapped by an inversion that the steam-rich updraft is punching through.</p>
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		<title>By: Shadaiks Irrelevanzia &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Ästhetik des Endes</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/08/31/astronomical-conflagration/comment-page-1/#comment-93093</link>
		<dc:creator>Shadaiks Irrelevanzia &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Ästhetik des Endes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Sep 2009 19:06:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/08/31/astronomical-conflagration/#comment-93093</guid>
		<description>[...] Cosmic Variance via Aufklärung 2.0       Veröffentlicht am 1. September 2009 um 20:05 [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Cosmic Variance via Aufklärung 2.0       Veröffentlicht am 1. September 2009 um 20:05 [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Allyson</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/08/31/astronomical-conflagration/comment-page-1/#comment-93090</link>
		<dc:creator>Allyson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Sep 2009 18:59:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/08/31/astronomical-conflagration/#comment-93090</guid>
		<description>It smells horrible here, Sean. And the air quality is like breathing in a burning barbecue briquette.

I hope you stayed away. I&#039;m going to finish up some tasks that can&#039;t wait another day and head back home. Yuck. I&#039;m missing three coworkers who are in evac zones.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It smells horrible here, Sean. And the air quality is like breathing in a burning barbecue briquette.</p>
<p>I hope you stayed away. I&#8217;m going to finish up some tasks that can&#8217;t wait another day and head back home. Yuck. I&#8217;m missing three coworkers who are in evac zones.</p>
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		<title>By: The Real Dealt</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/08/31/astronomical-conflagration/comment-page-1/#comment-93088</link>
		<dc:creator>The Real Dealt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Sep 2009 18:57:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/08/31/astronomical-conflagration/#comment-93088</guid>
		<description>You build New Orleans right in the middle of hurricane paths, something well-known to man for centuries. Then to kick nature, you chose a spot below sea level. Look what happened. 

Then you build another big city, LA, right in the middle of earthquake hot zone, something also well-known to man for centuries. To kick nature, you chose a spot surrounded by mountains frequented by huge wild fires. Then to really kick nature, you build houses right in the middle of the bone dry hills for that great scenery. 

Let the big winds and big fires wipe out the extreme hubris of man.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You build New Orleans right in the middle of hurricane paths, something well-known to man for centuries. Then to kick nature, you chose a spot below sea level. Look what happened. </p>
<p>Then you build another big city, LA, right in the middle of earthquake hot zone, something also well-known to man for centuries. To kick nature, you chose a spot surrounded by mountains frequented by huge wild fires. Then to really kick nature, you build houses right in the middle of the bone dry hills for that great scenery. </p>
<p>Let the big winds and big fires wipe out the extreme hubris of man.</p>
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		<title>By: Count Iblis</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/08/31/astronomical-conflagration/comment-page-1/#comment-93081</link>
		<dc:creator>Count Iblis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Sep 2009 18:01:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/08/31/astronomical-conflagration/#comment-93081</guid>
		<description>Well, at least a rare physical phenomena has been spotted: &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2009/09/01/2009-09-01_fire_tornadoes_likely_in_california_wildfires.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Fire tornadoes&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, at least a rare physical phenomena has been spotted: <a href="http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2009/09/01/2009-09-01_fire_tornadoes_likely_in_california_wildfires.html" rel="nofollow">Fire tornadoes</a></p>
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		<title>By: Reginald Selkirk</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/08/31/astronomical-conflagration/comment-page-1/#comment-93053</link>
		<dc:creator>Reginald Selkirk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Sep 2009 14:13:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/08/31/astronomical-conflagration/#comment-93053</guid>
		<description>Mt. Wilson is flambe. They will have to find some place else to build a telescope.
&lt;a href=&quot;http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20090831/sc_livescience/coldestdriestcalmestplaceonearthfound&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Coldest, Driest, Calmest Place on Earth Found&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mt. Wilson is flambe. They will have to find some place else to build a telescope.<br />
<a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20090831/sc_livescience/coldestdriestcalmestplaceonearthfound" rel="nofollow">Coldest, Driest, Calmest Place on Earth Found</a></p>
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		<title>By: greg</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/08/31/astronomical-conflagration/comment-page-1/#comment-93050</link>
		<dc:creator>greg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Sep 2009 13:44:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/08/31/astronomical-conflagration/#comment-93050</guid>
		<description>I guess it&#039;s a good thing Woman is still safe at least.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess it&#8217;s a good thing Woman is still safe at least.</p>
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		<title>By: De brand bij Los Angeles: beangstigend! &#124; Astroblogs</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/08/31/astronomical-conflagration/comment-page-1/#comment-93036</link>
		<dc:creator>De brand bij Los Angeles: beangstigend! &#124; Astroblogs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Sep 2009 11:09:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/08/31/astronomical-conflagration/#comment-93036</guid>
		<description>[...] Als ik deze foto zie van de brand vlakbij Los Angeles komt er maar één woord in mij op: beangstigend! Het lijkt een plaatje uit en rampenfilm, maar het is helaas echt. De situatie bij Mount Wilson blijft slecht.  De brandweer heeft zich van de berg teruggetrokken en het blussen gebeurt alleen nog vanuit de lucht. Bron: Cosmic Variance. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Als ik deze foto zie van de brand vlakbij Los Angeles komt er maar één woord in mij op: beangstigend! Het lijkt een plaatje uit en rampenfilm, maar het is helaas echt. De situatie bij Mount Wilson blijft slecht.  De brandweer heeft zich van de berg teruggetrokken en het blussen gebeurt alleen nog vanuit de lucht. Bron: Cosmic Variance. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Mountains of Fire &#171; In the Dark</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/08/31/astronomical-conflagration/comment-page-1/#comment-93033</link>
		<dc:creator>Mountains of Fire &#171; In the Dark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Sep 2009 10:53:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/08/31/astronomical-conflagration/#comment-93033</guid>
		<description>[...]  I found this stunning (and terrifying) image over on Cosmic Variance, where you can read the full story of the wildfires near Los Angeles that are threatening, amongst other things, the historic Mount [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]  I found this stunning (and terrifying) image over on Cosmic Variance, where you can read the full story of the wildfires near Los Angeles that are threatening, amongst other things, the historic Mount [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ellipsis</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/08/31/astronomical-conflagration/comment-page-1/#comment-93015</link>
		<dc:creator>Ellipsis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Sep 2009 06:52:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/08/31/astronomical-conflagration/#comment-93015</guid>
		<description>This will be nothing but a fond memory after the earthquake hits.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This will be nothing but a fond memory after the earthquake hits.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon B</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/08/31/astronomical-conflagration/comment-page-1/#comment-93013</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Sep 2009 06:44:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/08/31/astronomical-conflagration/#comment-93013</guid>
		<description>Meh. It&#039;s a typical day in LA when the humidity goes below fifty and the temperature goes above a hundred. Nothing to see here, folks. *cough cough*</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Meh. It&#8217;s a typical day in LA when the humidity goes below fifty and the temperature goes above a hundred. Nothing to see here, folks. *cough cough*</p>
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		<title>By: Serge</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/08/31/astronomical-conflagration/comment-page-1/#comment-93010</link>
		<dc:creator>Serge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Sep 2009 06:01:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/08/31/astronomical-conflagration/#comment-93010</guid>
		<description>@MikeGras
Wildfires not only unavoidable,  they are parts of the natural ecological cycle. Actually  fire prevention  is one of the main reasons causing modern harmful to ecology firestorms. Fire prevention causing disruption of natural wildfires cycles, accumulation of inflammable materials and replace regular smaller scale wildfires with huge firestorms. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_ecology</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@MikeGras<br />
Wildfires not only unavoidable,  they are parts of the natural ecological cycle. Actually  fire prevention  is one of the main reasons causing modern harmful to ecology firestorms. Fire prevention causing disruption of natural wildfires cycles, accumulation of inflammable materials and replace regular smaller scale wildfires with huge firestorms. </p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_ecology" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_ecology</a></p>
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		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/08/31/astronomical-conflagration/comment-page-1/#comment-92991</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Sep 2009 02:31:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/08/31/astronomical-conflagration/#comment-92991</guid>
		<description>Damage to humans and buildings may be minimal at this point, but imagine all the wildlife that has probably been incinerated. I think this is a horror that we generally refuse to think about. The problem with removing dead wood from forests is that you are extracting nutrients from the forest and removing wildlife habitat, ultimately making it less fertile. The real problem is humans.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Damage to humans and buildings may be minimal at this point, but imagine all the wildlife that has probably been incinerated. I think this is a horror that we generally refuse to think about. The problem with removing dead wood from forests is that you are extracting nutrients from the forest and removing wildlife habitat, ultimately making it less fertile. The real problem is humans.</p>
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		<title>By: Count Iblis</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/08/31/astronomical-conflagration/comment-page-1/#comment-92985</link>
		<dc:creator>Count Iblis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Sep 2009 02:02:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/08/31/astronomical-conflagration/#comment-92985</guid>
		<description>I agree with MikeGras. Why are there so many trees in the direct neighborhood of the observatory? There are also a lot of dead, dried out plants that serves as fuel for the fires. The fact that fires only happen infrequently means that a lot of this fuel can build up over time, so this has to be cleaned up regularly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with MikeGras. Why are there so many trees in the direct neighborhood of the observatory? There are also a lot of dead, dried out plants that serves as fuel for the fires. The fact that fires only happen infrequently means that a lot of this fuel can build up over time, so this has to be cleaned up regularly.</p>
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		<title>By: MikeGras</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/08/31/astronomical-conflagration/comment-page-1/#comment-92984</link>
		<dc:creator>MikeGras</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Sep 2009 01:54:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/08/31/astronomical-conflagration/#comment-92984</guid>
		<description>Nature still trumps Man?  or man&#039;s negligence in protecting his environment.   I believe this to be a totally avoidable situation.  I further think this to be the result of imprudent laws and neglect.  Fire seasons will continue to be news events unless....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nature still trumps Man?  or man&#8217;s negligence in protecting his environment.   I believe this to be a totally avoidable situation.  I further think this to be the result of imprudent laws and neglect.  Fire seasons will continue to be news events unless&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Wird der Mt. Wilson in Kürze vom Feuer überrannt? &#171; Skyweek Zwei Punkt Null</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/08/31/astronomical-conflagration/comment-page-1/#comment-92949</link>
		<dc:creator>Wird der Mt. Wilson in Kürze vom Feuer überrannt? &#171; Skyweek Zwei Punkt Null</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Aug 2009 23:07:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/08/31/astronomical-conflagration/#comment-92949</guid>
		<description>[...] der UCLA zu Sonnenturm und Webcam, Meldungen (ungefähr in inverser Chronologie) von LAT Blog, Cosmic Variance, AstroEngine, Examiner, LAT Blog, Planetary Society Blog, Space.com, Astronomy, Discovery, Sky [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] der UCLA zu Sonnenturm und Webcam, Meldungen (ungefähr in inverser Chronologie) von LAT Blog, Cosmic Variance, AstroEngine, Examiner, LAT Blog, Planetary Society Blog, Space.com, Astronomy, Discovery, Sky [...]</p>
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