<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Where We Are on the Laffer Curve</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/09/16/where-we-are-on-the-laffer-curve/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/09/16/where-we-are-on-the-laffer-curve/</link>
	<description>Random samplings from a universe of ideas.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 22:04:59 -0600</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Mike B</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/09/16/where-we-are-on-the-laffer-curve/comment-page-1/#comment-107216</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Oct 2009 15:52:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=2533#comment-107216</guid>
		<description>Wow, I&#039;m amazed at the number of responses that were generated by this article.  Some of them are intelligent, but many are simply ignorant.  Please note that ignorance is not a function of intelligence, just knowledge.  Anyone who is familiar with the Laffer curve and its origins can tell you that the curve was not meant to determine the optimal rate of taxation, but merely to illustrate the concept that there are times when you can reduce tax rates and generate more revenue for the government (not to mention making people paying taxes much happier).  I will demonstrate a simple scenario later in this post.  The method used to draw this curve seems like a lot of hogwash to me, but maybe that&#039;s because I&#039;m ignorant of &quot;marginal revolution&quot; and constant Frisch elasticity.  First, and like many above comments have mentioned, an average tax rate does not exist in practice.  We could be in very different places on the Laffer curve for many different people.  For instance, I&#039;m certain that we&#039;re far to the left of the maximum revenue generating rate for the 50% of the population that does not contribute to the income taxes of the United States--and I don&#039;t think that any of you can argue that point.  For the wealthy, it&#039;s less clear, but maybe we are still to the left of the maximum... who knows?  But whoever thinks that maximizing tax revenues should be the goal of the government probably doesn&#039;t think that he or she has any true prospects for bettering their own circumstances in this world.  They&#039;d rather live in a nanny state.  That&#039;s fine, I just don&#039;t feel like contributing my hard earned money so that you can do nothing. 
Okay, now I want to illustrate to illustrate exactly how the Laffer curve works in the real world.  But before doing this, I&#039;d like to take a quick survey.  
Question 1) Have you ever worked for a large or small company that had limited money?
Question 2) Have you ever been in a position where you were responsible for making the decision (or making a recommendation) of how that limited money was invested?  
Question 3) If you answered yes to questions 1) and 2), did you consider the tax consequences when making this decision?

I have spent my career working in Finance and helping make these decisions for a Fortune 100 company.  If you couldn&#039;t already guess the answer to number 3, it should be &quot;yes.&quot;

Now let me illustrate.  Let&#039;s say that you have the opportunity to bet on the outcome of a coin toss.  If you guess correctly, you win $120.  If you guess incorrectly, you lose $100.  Since the expected return is 0.5 * 120 + 0.5 * (100), or $10, a rational person would take this bet over and over until he/she was supremely wealthy.  Now, let&#039;s add taxes into this decision.  If we tax the winnings at 25%, then the expected return drops to 0.5 * 120 * (1-.25) + 0.5 * (100) = (10).  Now, you expect to lose $10 every time you take this bet, so you make the decision NOT to invest in this opportunity.
Now, rather than thinking of this as a coin flip, let&#039;s think of it as the decision to expand manufacturing capacity in a region.  This decision will have similar expected returns, but multiplied by $10MM--and this project is expected to create 100 new jobs if we do it.  If the payouts and taxes are the same, you don&#039;t do the project.  However, if taxes are reduced to 10%, then you make the investment because your expected return is once again positive.

If you still can&#039;t see how this illustrates the Laffer curve, then I&#039;ll break it down even more simply so the nay sayers can understand it.  If taxes are 25%, how much tax revenue is collected from this project?  The answer = $0, because the project is not undertaken.  If the tax rate = 0%, then you also collect $0 in taxes.  However, if the tax rate is 10%, then your expected tax revenue = $10MM * (0.5*120*+0.5*-100) = $100MM * .25 = $25MM  + the tax that you receive from the income on the 100 new jobs.  Hey, (0%,$0), (10%, $40MM+), (25%, $0)--if you plot those coordinates on a graph, you actually get a Laffer curve.

I hate to disappoint you academics and people who have never worked in the real world, but this is actually how investment decisions are made and it supports the theory of supply side economics.  This example applies to personal tax rates and corporate tax rates.  High personal tax rates discourage investment by small business owners (many of whom report business income as personal income).  So the next time you wonder why those 100 people are out on the street and looking for work, maybe you should think about cutting tax rates on corporations and individuals who make these decisions--because that&#039;s how you will incentivize these people to take the risks that will create jobs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, I&#8217;m amazed at the number of responses that were generated by this article.  Some of them are intelligent, but many are simply ignorant.  Please note that ignorance is not a function of intelligence, just knowledge.  Anyone who is familiar with the Laffer curve and its origins can tell you that the curve was not meant to determine the optimal rate of taxation, but merely to illustrate the concept that there are times when you can reduce tax rates and generate more revenue for the government (not to mention making people paying taxes much happier).  I will demonstrate a simple scenario later in this post.  The method used to draw this curve seems like a lot of hogwash to me, but maybe that&#8217;s because I&#8217;m ignorant of &#8220;marginal revolution&#8221; and constant Frisch elasticity.  First, and like many above comments have mentioned, an average tax rate does not exist in practice.  We could be in very different places on the Laffer curve for many different people.  For instance, I&#8217;m certain that we&#8217;re far to the left of the maximum revenue generating rate for the 50% of the population that does not contribute to the income taxes of the United States&#8211;and I don&#8217;t think that any of you can argue that point.  For the wealthy, it&#8217;s less clear, but maybe we are still to the left of the maximum&#8230; who knows?  But whoever thinks that maximizing tax revenues should be the goal of the government probably doesn&#8217;t think that he or she has any true prospects for bettering their own circumstances in this world.  They&#8217;d rather live in a nanny state.  That&#8217;s fine, I just don&#8217;t feel like contributing my hard earned money so that you can do nothing.<br />
Okay, now I want to illustrate to illustrate exactly how the Laffer curve works in the real world.  But before doing this, I&#8217;d like to take a quick survey.<br />
Question 1) Have you ever worked for a large or small company that had limited money?<br />
Question 2) Have you ever been in a position where you were responsible for making the decision (or making a recommendation) of how that limited money was invested?<br />
Question 3) If you answered yes to questions 1) and 2), did you consider the tax consequences when making this decision?</p>
<p>I have spent my career working in Finance and helping make these decisions for a Fortune 100 company.  If you couldn&#8217;t already guess the answer to number 3, it should be &#8220;yes.&#8221;</p>
<p>Now let me illustrate.  Let&#8217;s say that you have the opportunity to bet on the outcome of a coin toss.  If you guess correctly, you win $120.  If you guess incorrectly, you lose $100.  Since the expected return is 0.5 * 120 + 0.5 * (100), or $10, a rational person would take this bet over and over until he/she was supremely wealthy.  Now, let&#8217;s add taxes into this decision.  If we tax the winnings at 25%, then the expected return drops to 0.5 * 120 * (1-.25) + 0.5 * (100) = (10).  Now, you expect to lose $10 every time you take this bet, so you make the decision NOT to invest in this opportunity.<br />
Now, rather than thinking of this as a coin flip, let&#8217;s think of it as the decision to expand manufacturing capacity in a region.  This decision will have similar expected returns, but multiplied by $10MM&#8211;and this project is expected to create 100 new jobs if we do it.  If the payouts and taxes are the same, you don&#8217;t do the project.  However, if taxes are reduced to 10%, then you make the investment because your expected return is once again positive.</p>
<p>If you still can&#8217;t see how this illustrates the Laffer curve, then I&#8217;ll break it down even more simply so the nay sayers can understand it.  If taxes are 25%, how much tax revenue is collected from this project?  The answer = $0, because the project is not undertaken.  If the tax rate = 0%, then you also collect $0 in taxes.  However, if the tax rate is 10%, then your expected tax revenue = $10MM * (0.5*120*+0.5*-100) = $100MM * .25 = $25MM  + the tax that you receive from the income on the 100 new jobs.  Hey, (0%,$0), (10%, $40MM+), (25%, $0)&#8211;if you plot those coordinates on a graph, you actually get a Laffer curve.</p>
<p>I hate to disappoint you academics and people who have never worked in the real world, but this is actually how investment decisions are made and it supports the theory of supply side economics.  This example applies to personal tax rates and corporate tax rates.  High personal tax rates discourage investment by small business owners (many of whom report business income as personal income).  So the next time you wonder why those 100 people are out on the street and looking for work, maybe you should think about cutting tax rates on corporations and individuals who make these decisions&#8211;because that&#8217;s how you will incentivize these people to take the risks that will create jobs.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: etcetera &#8212; Laffer Curve and Current Tax Rates</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/09/16/where-we-are-on-the-laffer-curve/comment-page-1/#comment-105267</link>
		<dc:creator>etcetera &#8212; Laffer Curve and Current Tax Rates</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2009 04:35:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=2533#comment-105267</guid>
		<description>[...] Where are we on the Laffer curve? Ans: Far to the left of the maximum. Link. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Where are we on the Laffer curve? Ans: Far to the left of the maximum. Link. [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: How does Obama plan on paying for this?!?!? - Page 2 - MotownSports.com Message Board</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/09/16/where-we-are-on-the-laffer-curve/comment-page-1/#comment-99878</link>
		<dc:creator>How does Obama plan on paying for this?!?!? - Page 2 - MotownSports.com Message Board</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 02:18:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=2533#comment-99878</guid>
		<description>[...] Where We Are on the Laffer Curve &#124; Cosmic Variance &#124; Discover Magazine  Quote: [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Where We Are on the Laffer Curve | Cosmic Variance | Discover Magazine  Quote: [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Steuersenkungen nach der Wahl? &#124; Yoshi K</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/09/16/where-we-are-on-the-laffer-curve/comment-page-1/#comment-98415</link>
		<dc:creator>Steuersenkungen nach der Wahl? &#124; Yoshi K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2009 23:06:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=2533#comment-98415</guid>
		<description>[...] zur folge. Damit würde Schwarz-Gelb also alle Wahlversprechen problemlos erfüllen können.  Allerdings ist nur bekannt, dass 100% Einkommensteuer zu hoch sind, und 0% sind zu niedrig. [&#8617;] This entry is filed under Politik. You can follow any responses to this entry through the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] zur folge. Damit würde Schwarz-Gelb also alle Wahlversprechen problemlos erfüllen können.  Allerdings ist nur bekannt, dass 100% Einkommensteuer zu hoch sind, und 0% sind zu niedrig. [&#8617;] This entry is filed under Politik. You can follow any responses to this entry through the [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: bytejockey</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/09/16/where-we-are-on-the-laffer-curve/comment-page-1/#comment-97559</link>
		<dc:creator>bytejockey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Sep 2009 23:37:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=2533#comment-97559</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s  like figuring how hard to beat a mule to make him pull a cart faster without killing him in the process.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s  like figuring how hard to beat a mule to make him pull a cart faster without killing him in the process.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Economics and Investing: &#124; Theology Today</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/09/16/where-we-are-on-the-laffer-curve/comment-page-1/#comment-97018</link>
		<dc:creator>Economics and Investing: &#124; Theology Today</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Sep 2009 06:41:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=2533#comment-97018</guid>
		<description>[...] Years to Regain Speed  We Still Have the Same Disease  More Taxes -- Of Course! (The Mogambo Guru)  Where We Are on the Laffer Curve  Greenspan Sees Threat US Congress Will Hamper Fed  UN Calls For Replacement of US Dollar  Is Your [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Years to Regain Speed  We Still Have the Same Disease  More Taxes &#8212; Of Course! (The Mogambo Guru)  Where We Are on the Laffer Curve  Greenspan Sees Threat US Congress Will Hamper Fed  UN Calls For Replacement of US Dollar  Is Your [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: corin</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/09/16/where-we-are-on-the-laffer-curve/comment-page-1/#comment-96995</link>
		<dc:creator>corin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Sep 2009 04:29:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=2533#comment-96995</guid>
		<description>The Laffer Curve is a joke and a neocon disater of a theory. Supply side demon economics is what is causing the collapse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Laffer Curve is a joke and a neocon disater of a theory. Supply side demon economics is what is causing the collapse.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: &#187; Financial News Update &#8211; 09/20/09 NoisyRoom.net: Where liberty dwells, there is my country&#8230;</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/09/16/where-we-are-on-the-laffer-curve/comment-page-1/#comment-96923</link>
		<dc:creator>&#187; Financial News Update &#8211; 09/20/09 NoisyRoom.net: Where liberty dwells, there is my country&#8230;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Sep 2009 23:14:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=2533#comment-96923</guid>
		<description>[...] Where We Are on the Laffer Curve [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Where We Are on the Laffer Curve [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/09/16/where-we-are-on-the-laffer-curve/comment-page-1/#comment-96885</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Sep 2009 20:09:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=2533#comment-96885</guid>
		<description>If my tax rate were to be increased, I&#039;d rather pay a CPA to minimize my total taxes rather than write a larger check to the government even if the total of taxes and CPA&#039;s fees didn&#039;t save me any cash. At least the government would get less from me and then  could only tax what I paid the CPA at the CPA&#039;s tax rate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If my tax rate were to be increased, I&#8217;d rather pay a CPA to minimize my total taxes rather than write a larger check to the government even if the total of taxes and CPA&#8217;s fees didn&#8217;t save me any cash. At least the government would get less from me and then  could only tax what I paid the CPA at the CPA&#8217;s tax rate.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Where We Are on the Laffer Curve: &#34;They estimate the U.S. could increase revenues by about 36% by raising taxes.&#34; &#171; Economics Info</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/09/16/where-we-are-on-the-laffer-curve/comment-page-1/#comment-96843</link>
		<dc:creator>Where We Are on the Laffer Curve: &#34;They estimate the U.S. could increase revenues by about 36% by raising taxes.&#34; &#171; Economics Info</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Sep 2009 17:00:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=2533#comment-96843</guid>
		<description>[...] Source [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Source [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
