Comments on: Citizenship

By: mel

mel — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 15:12:40 +0000

Congratulations. Like you, my wife and I were also waiting for our oath ceremony schedule. Ours have taken place on 9/2/2009 at the Callowhill office. Mine went smoothly with just a 10 minute wait. But my wife waited for at least a 2-hour delay on her appointment. That gave her some jitters, although she did study for a month. She said she was so glad that she passed and she will not forget the experience (she blanked out on one question for a while but still managed to give the correct answer).

I came across this blog searching for info on the next scheduled oath ceremony. Still unsuccessful with my search though…

By: Suzanne

Suzanne — Sat, 24 Oct 2009 15:15:26 +0000

CONGRATULATIONS – I went through that whole process 2 years ago. Actually, I wasn’t only disappointed that I didn’t get to answer the ten questions but was done after 6, but they also didn’t do the English Comprehension and reading/spelling test (I was sooo gonna ace it) and before the citizenship ceremony they told us to learn the “Oath of Allegiance” (not Pledge, the Oath – it’s different) because we would need to know it for the ceremony.

I studied my head off – I could recite the thing backward, forward, standing on my head, or any other way possible — and then all they did was have ONE PERSON UP FRONT read it out loud and all we (the future citizens) had to do was answer I SWEAR…..yeah — I wanted to swear alright – some not so nice things actually….

By: vivek

vivek — Fri, 23 Oct 2009 21:08:04 +0000

In my case, the guy stopped after three questions and then spent the rest of the time telling me about a vacation he had recently taken which involved a train journey in Alaska; he had a photo up on his wall, and I asked him about it…

By: straightbat

straightbat — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 15:48:49 +0000

Gray Gaffer (#26) you might want to consult with that lawyer friend of yours on that bit about abandoning naturalized citizenship by moving back. You can move hither, thither and anywhere without any such problems (but do remember to feed the IRS). I know plenty of naturalized citizens who are either back in their home country or in a third country with no such issues. I seem to recall reading that this was litigated and it was found that it would be unconstitutional/illegal to strip naturalized citizens of citizenship for such reasons.

By: abbruzzesse

abbruzzesse — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 15:46:01 +0000

Regarding the Red Booklet, I find in it something more peculiar
than its (understandably) selective description of Franklin’s
achievements. Among the rights of US citizens it lists the
“right to bear arms”. Apparently, the booklet’s authors
have their own ideas about how to interpret the Second Amendment,
and present their own opinion as fact.

By: marciepooh

marciepooh — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 14:42:00 +0000

Doc: We have enough native born citizens who can’t get 60% of those questions right we don’t need more voters with who don’t know what the 3 branches of government are suppose to do.

By: Gray Gaffer

Gray Gaffer — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 00:07:23 +0000

Doc: yes, although I think they give you a second chance, and you might even get an examiner not above prompting you.

The standards for admittance as an adult are way higher than native admittance, which only requires being born breathing.

By: Doc

Doc — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 22:33:29 +0000

Trods, that will make flying a bit more exciting…! Also, what’s the point of these citizenship tests? what if one is simply stupid – does that preclude citizenship? discuss

By: Gray Gaffer

Gray Gaffer — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 19:47:45 +0000

I was told by my interviewer that the reciprocal dual citizenship with the UK dated from WWII but was not bandied about. Until my interview I had assumed I had to give up my UK citizenship since it seemed required by the oath. I have not tested this, but I suspect one might get taxed twice if one were to go do some work in the UK that did not involve actually moving back there. As to moving back, that is assumed by the INS to be an abandonment of your USA citizenship so one loses it. So not quite so reciprocal. Or, naturalization has some second-class properties as compared to native born citizenship.

By: CarlZ

CarlZ — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 13:37:21 +0000

Re. dual citizenship:

Britain decided to be a lot less uptight about it some years ago. The official position now is that an oath you take in front of some other country’s officials is not binding on the UK, which therefore still claims you as a citizen, and if you want to forfeit your British citizenship you have to say so in front of a British official.

The US used to be restrictive, but made an exception for dual US/Israeli citizenship during the early years of modern Israel’s existence IIRC (lots of Jewish Americans wanted to show support for Israel but not at the cost of giving up their, in many cases hard-won, US citizenship). Then at some point (mid-1960s?) the courts decided that you couldn’t give special treatment to one class of people, i.e. dual citizenship with Israel but not other countries. Since then the US has taken a position of official indifference: Even though the naturalization oath includes a promise to renounce all prior loyalties, this has not been taken to mean formally giving up other citizenships.

By: Toiski

Toiski — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 11:55:34 +0000

As a European who grew up in the era of American domination of TV, movies and games, I could only name three of the Native American tribes off the top of my head, all of them also names of military helicopters…

By: Gray Gaffer

Gray Gaffer — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 00:06:44 +0000

Congrats from a fellow expat!

I came to LA in 1975, got my Green Card in 1978 when they were a) still green and b) granted for life. Except Clinton nixed that, made them require renewing every 10 years, and the INS neglected to tell me. A lawyer friend discovered it just two months before the 2 year grace period ran out, so I did sneak in, but it could have been very nasty. So I decided to convert in 2000, finally made it through all hurdles in 2002. Took me so long because the INS had misplaced my file. I ‘landed’ in LA, but renewed in Seattle, also converted in Seattle, but they looked for my file in LA when it was still in Seattle.

I got the questions on what the three branches’ responsibilities are. During Bush’s reign. I kept to the book.

The dual citizenship thing is mutual with the UK. Generally speaking, you use the country’s passport in which you are landing to go through customs. Leaving the USA they may not even look, but use the USA one. Leaving the UK you also use the USA passport.

By: DTS

DTS — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 00:03:09 +0000

Good booklet. About the Vietnam war, it says “The war ended in 1975 with the temporary separation of the country into communist North Vietnam and democratic South Vietnam” (page 21), which is new to me.

By: Sili

Sili — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 21:47:20 +0000

Does the UK allow dual citizenship? I can never figure out who does and who doesn’t.

I’d have to look this one up (I think he wrote and almanac, yes, and had a press, but somehow the postmaster thing sounds familiar too). The first things I think of are electricity (+ lightning rods), bifocals and an improved fireplace. Some anecdote of his wife making fun of him walking around with loaves in his pockets when she first saw him, too.

Of course, it’s not likely that I’ll ever be employed in the US (hopefully I will be employed somewhere eventually).

ETA: Oh! They’re all correct. I thought it was the multiple choice thing that you’re so fond of over there. (Yes, you get to be part of “them” now.)

By: Ele Munjeli

Ele Munjeli — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 20:43:35 +0000

Congratulations! Thanks for joining the club!

By: Phillip Helbig

Phillip Helbig — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 20:10:08 +0000

“Franklin was also a notorious womanizer, and the author of the phrase “all cats are gray in the dark.””

Indeed. Check this out:

http://www.rjgeib.com/thoughts/franklin/franklin.html

Remember to carry a basket with you, just in case (see point 5.)!

By: Mark

Mark — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 19:52:35 +0000

Thanks to all for the congratulations – hopefully the swearing in is a formality.

Peter, that’s half-traitor – I still get to hold a British Passport as well.

By: John R Ramsden

John R Ramsden — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 19:33:25 +0000

> “The other problem for the geek taking the citizenship test is that if you get six correct
> before the examiner reaches ten questions, he just stops asking, and tells you you’ve
> passed. One must then avoid the temptation to say “No, come on, ask me the rest!

and the temptation to explain a logical flaw in the US constitution, which Kurt Godel apparently planned to do in his citizenship interview before Einstein managed to talk him out of it.

No idea what it is, but possibly that one about US Presidents being able to wangle more than two terms of office under some implausible but possible conditions.

By: CarlZ

CarlZ — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 15:48:12 +0000

Hey Mark, congratulations. I’m in exactly the same boat: been here many years, took the exam a couple of weeks ago and have the Oath ceremony this Thursday!

And I’m also astonished at how efficient, polite and helpful the INS has become in recent years. When I first started going there in the mid-1990s, it was as if every body who was too bitter and sarcastic to work at the DMV anymore got shipped up to INS where at least they weren’t dealing with citizens who had a congressperson to complain to. And then somewhere around 1999, there was a complete sea-change in the culture. Weird.

By an amusing coincidence, when I got to the Franklin question I had exactly the same reaction as you: I turned to my (American-born) wife and asked how they could leave off his scientific accomplishments?

Of the 5 officially acceptable answers, the only one I could have offered before studying for the test was that he was a diplomat.

By: Ashutosh

Ashutosh — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 15:08:28 +0000

Congratulations! I remember that when Godel took his citizenship exam he wanted to point out to the judge how the US constitution contained a loophole through which the country could be turned into a dictatorship. Apparently his friends Albert Einstein and Oskar Morgenstern stopped him from doing this.