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	<title>Comments on: From Eternity to Book Club: Chapter Two</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2010/01/26/from-eternity-to-book-club-chapter-two/</link>
	<description>Random samplings from a universe of ideas.</description>
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		<title>By: Corey</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2010/01/26/from-eternity-to-book-club-chapter-two/comment-page-1/#comment-113221</link>
		<dc:creator>Corey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 04:01:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=3888#comment-113221</guid>
		<description>Given that entropy is a measure of disorder, it seems counter-intuitive in my every day world that entropy always increases.  I&#039;m not disputing the point at all; I just found this interesting.  Certainly the key is to think of the entire system - not just the low entropy intact egg, but also all of the energy and matter used to produce the egg.  The egg itself, it seems, would be lower entropy than the previous state of the matter from which it was formed.  Is this line of thought correct?

I also found myself thinking hard about the statement that there are more ways for a system to become higher entropy than there are for it to become lower entropy.  This may also be true, but a system cannot evolve in all the ways that are possible; the laws of physics must be followed.  A few billiard balls bouncing off each other in space will not become higher entropy as a function of time.  What is the boundary condition for complexity before a system must increase in entropy?  What is inherently different in a complex system?  The only thing I can think of proposing is the fact that the position and/or momentum of objects can be expressed as probability waves and only when that uncertainty can influence the evolution of the system does it matter that there are more ways a system can become higher entropy than lower entropy.

Chiming in at the end of the Chapter 2 week, I clearly prefer just one chapter per week.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Given that entropy is a measure of disorder, it seems counter-intuitive in my every day world that entropy always increases.  I&#8217;m not disputing the point at all; I just found this interesting.  Certainly the key is to think of the entire system &#8211; not just the low entropy intact egg, but also all of the energy and matter used to produce the egg.  The egg itself, it seems, would be lower entropy than the previous state of the matter from which it was formed.  Is this line of thought correct?</p>
<p>I also found myself thinking hard about the statement that there are more ways for a system to become higher entropy than there are for it to become lower entropy.  This may also be true, but a system cannot evolve in all the ways that are possible; the laws of physics must be followed.  A few billiard balls bouncing off each other in space will not become higher entropy as a function of time.  What is the boundary condition for complexity before a system must increase in entropy?  What is inherently different in a complex system?  The only thing I can think of proposing is the fact that the position and/or momentum of objects can be expressed as probability waves and only when that uncertainty can influence the evolution of the system does it matter that there are more ways a system can become higher entropy than lower entropy.</p>
<p>Chiming in at the end of the Chapter 2 week, I clearly prefer just one chapter per week.</p>
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		<title>By: rww</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2010/01/26/from-eternity-to-book-club-chapter-two/comment-page-1/#comment-113212</link>
		<dc:creator>rww</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 20:36:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=3888#comment-113212</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m guessing that&#039;s the whole point -- that time has no intrinsic direction.  Better late than never.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m guessing that&#8217;s the whole point &#8212; that time has no intrinsic direction.  Better late than never.</p>
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		<title>By: rww</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2010/01/26/from-eternity-to-book-club-chapter-two/comment-page-1/#comment-113176</link>
		<dc:creator>rww</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jan 2010 19:13:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=3888#comment-113176</guid>
		<description>Pp 31-32 you have this  nice thought about directions in space being attributable to our proximity to a gravitating body and our direction in time to &quot;living in the temporal vicinity of &quot; the big bang.

Doesn&#039;t that suggest that time itself , like space itself, actually has no direction? 
 
Or maybe, more generally,does it serve any purpose to treat entropy and time as distinct concepts?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pp 31-32 you have this  nice thought about directions in space being attributable to our proximity to a gravitating body and our direction in time to &#8220;living in the temporal vicinity of &#8221; the big bang.</p>
<p>Doesn&#8217;t that suggest that time itself , like space itself, actually has no direction? </p>
<p>Or maybe, more generally,does it serve any purpose to treat entropy and time as distinct concepts?</p>
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		<title>By: Sean</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2010/01/26/from-eternity-to-book-club-chapter-two/comment-page-1/#comment-113141</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jan 2010 21:17:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=3888#comment-113141</guid>
		<description>There is going to be a paperback, yes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is going to be a paperback, yes.</p>
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		<title>By: Susan</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2010/01/26/from-eternity-to-book-club-chapter-two/comment-page-1/#comment-113133</link>
		<dc:creator>Susan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jan 2010 19:45:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=3888#comment-113133</guid>
		<description>I have been peeking ahead a bit , and chapter three is very interesting, and four looks like a WOW. I have been trying to figure out what it is about your teaching ( book and lectures ) that I like so much. I think it is the way you treat the very simple ideas and the complex idea all with the same weight. All are facts that related to the subject. I makes whatever the amount of learning you do count. That is nice.

I am understanding the book quite well. Still, when I finish it, read some other related materials, wait for awhile then read it again, I will understand more.

My friends amazed that I can ask a question about the book, and get answer back from someone with such mind boggling education and knowledge. 

They are impressed when I give the a sort of &quot;word of the day&quot;, which I  try to put into some sentence, in a casual way. Words like dynamical, retrodiction etc.  These are smart poeple, nurses mostly. Most have very little interest in science, and see learning about  the universe etc. as too hard. But I have helped a few to be more interested.

Are there plans for a paperback ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have been peeking ahead a bit , and chapter three is very interesting, and four looks like a WOW. I have been trying to figure out what it is about your teaching ( book and lectures ) that I like so much. I think it is the way you treat the very simple ideas and the complex idea all with the same weight. All are facts that related to the subject. I makes whatever the amount of learning you do count. That is nice.</p>
<p>I am understanding the book quite well. Still, when I finish it, read some other related materials, wait for awhile then read it again, I will understand more.</p>
<p>My friends amazed that I can ask a question about the book, and get answer back from someone with such mind boggling education and knowledge. </p>
<p>They are impressed when I give the a sort of &#8220;word of the day&#8221;, which I  try to put into some sentence, in a casual way. Words like dynamical, retrodiction etc.  These are smart poeple, nurses mostly. Most have very little interest in science, and see learning about  the universe etc. as too hard. But I have helped a few to be more interested.</p>
<p>Are there plans for a paperback ?</p>
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		<title>By: Andreas</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2010/01/26/from-eternity-to-book-club-chapter-two/comment-page-1/#comment-113054</link>
		<dc:creator>Andreas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jan 2010 19:41:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=3888#comment-113054</guid>
		<description>Try this: You can see the scale of things, from quarks to galaxies. Use the right-left arrow keys to navigate.  http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/525347</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Try this: You can see the scale of things, from quarks to galaxies. Use the right-left arrow keys to navigate.  <a href="http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/525347" rel="nofollow">http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/525347</a></p>
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		<title>By: Sean</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2010/01/26/from-eternity-to-book-club-chapter-two/comment-page-1/#comment-112960</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jan 2010 22:59:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=3888#comment-112960</guid>
		<description>Leonard--  Gravity pulls things together, causing slightly overdense regions to become more overdense.  Of course inflation can dissipate such overdensities, but the conditions required to start inflation are extremely low entropy to begin with -- we&#039;ll discuss in detail in Chapter 14.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Leonard&#8211;  Gravity pulls things together, causing slightly overdense regions to become more overdense.  Of course inflation can dissipate such overdensities, but the conditions required to start inflation are extremely low entropy to begin with &#8212; we&#8217;ll discuss in detail in Chapter 14.</p>
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		<title>By: Leonard Ornstein</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2010/01/26/from-eternity-to-book-club-chapter-two/comment-page-1/#comment-112957</link>
		<dc:creator>Leonard Ornstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jan 2010 22:38:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=3888#comment-112957</guid>
		<description>Sean:

In 48., how does gravity causes a &#039;small&#039;, relatively-homogeneous, expanding, PRE-INFLATION, low-entropy universe to become &quot;non-smooth&quot;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sean:</p>
<p>In 48., how does gravity causes a &#8216;small&#8217;, relatively-homogeneous, expanding, PRE-INFLATION, low-entropy universe to become &#8220;non-smooth&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>By: CW</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2010/01/26/from-eternity-to-book-club-chapter-two/comment-page-1/#comment-112915</link>
		<dc:creator>CW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jan 2010 17:39:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=3888#comment-112915</guid>
		<description>A chapter a week is fine with me, but if there are any shorter chapters coming up or consecutive chapters that have a lot dependency on each other - it might be beneficial to discuss both at once?  Maybe you can look ahead and give us a few days notice if this occurs?  Right now, I&#039;m reading two books - and I am pacing myself with the book club because I want to see if I can adapt to it.  But, the book club&#039;s Q&amp;A is sort of beckoning to me, making me want to start plowing into the book some more, right now!

Entropy is sort of challenging to comprehend.  I get those &quot;ah-ha&quot; moments and &quot;wait, what?&quot; moments on occasion.  As we get further into the book, there may be times that you have to refer us back to the first few chapters or get all Entropy 101 up in here, in the club&#039;s Q&amp;A.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A chapter a week is fine with me, but if there are any shorter chapters coming up or consecutive chapters that have a lot dependency on each other &#8211; it might be beneficial to discuss both at once?  Maybe you can look ahead and give us a few days notice if this occurs?  Right now, I&#8217;m reading two books &#8211; and I am pacing myself with the book club because I want to see if I can adapt to it.  But, the book club&#8217;s Q&#038;A is sort of beckoning to me, making me want to start plowing into the book some more, right now!</p>
<p>Entropy is sort of challenging to comprehend.  I get those &#8220;ah-ha&#8221; moments and &#8220;wait, what?&#8221; moments on occasion.  As we get further into the book, there may be times that you have to refer us back to the first few chapters or get all Entropy 101 up in here, in the club&#8217;s Q&#038;A.</p>
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		<title>By: rww</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2010/01/26/from-eternity-to-book-club-chapter-two/comment-page-1/#comment-112857</link>
		<dc:creator>rww</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jan 2010 01:37:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=3888#comment-112857</guid>
		<description>Thanks Sean, that did it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Sean, that did it.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2010/01/26/from-eternity-to-book-club-chapter-two/comment-page-1/#comment-112856</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jan 2010 01:15:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=3888#comment-112856</guid>
		<description>rww--  Not really; it&#039;s the smoothness itself, not its durability.  The Second Law says that entropy increases, but doesn&#039;t tell us how fast; the rate of increase is a complicated thing that depends on circumstances.  What marks the smooth early universe as low-entropy is its instability.  A smooth configuration will become non-smooth under the influence of gravity, while a non-smooth configuration isn&#039;t going to smooth itself out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>rww&#8211;  Not really; it&#8217;s the smoothness itself, not its durability.  The Second Law says that entropy increases, but doesn&#8217;t tell us how fast; the rate of increase is a complicated thing that depends on circumstances.  What marks the smooth early universe as low-entropy is its instability.  A smooth configuration will become non-smooth under the influence of gravity, while a non-smooth configuration isn&#8217;t going to smooth itself out.</p>
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		<title>By: rww</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2010/01/26/from-eternity-to-book-club-chapter-two/comment-page-1/#comment-112853</link>
		<dc:creator>rww</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jan 2010 23:56:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=3888#comment-112853</guid>
		<description>re #44:  Is it then the durability of  the smoothness despite the influence of gravity that marks it as low entropy in the early universe?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>re #44:  Is it then the durability of  the smoothness despite the influence of gravity that marks it as low entropy in the early universe?</p>
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		<title>By: J</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2010/01/26/from-eternity-to-book-club-chapter-two/comment-page-1/#comment-112846</link>
		<dc:creator>J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jan 2010 22:58:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=3888#comment-112846</guid>
		<description>&quot;because before and after (and past and future) are defined by the direction of entropy increasing, not measure relative to it.&quot;

Defined.  Now it makes sense to me. Thanks! I really found that to be the toughest concept in the whole book.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;because before and after (and past and future) are defined by the direction of entropy increasing, not measure relative to it.&#8221;</p>
<p>Defined.  Now it makes sense to me. Thanks! I really found that to be the toughest concept in the whole book.</p>
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		<title>By: Susan</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2010/01/26/from-eternity-to-book-club-chapter-two/comment-page-1/#comment-112831</link>
		<dc:creator>Susan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jan 2010 18:49:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=3888#comment-112831</guid>
		<description>I  found my question above was from chapter one, oops. I did more investigating since I posted it, and found several places that said the universe is the only truly closed system. Maybe by the end of the book I will be thinking that this idea might not be such a sure statment, we shall see. Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I  found my question above was from chapter one, oops. I did more investigating since I posted it, and found several places that said the universe is the only truly closed system. Maybe by the end of the book I will be thinking that this idea might not be such a sure statment, we shall see. Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2010/01/26/from-eternity-to-book-club-chapter-two/comment-page-1/#comment-112827</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jan 2010 17:47:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=3888#comment-112827</guid>
		<description>Joe--  It&#039;s misleading to associate &quot;low entropy&quot; with &quot;structure.&quot;  It&#039;s true that we often associate low entropy with order and high entropy with disorder, but that&#039;s a casual gloss that doesn&#039;t stand up to closer scrutiny.  Low entropy just means &lt;em&gt;unlikely&lt;/em&gt;, even if the configuration is extremely simple -- like all the air in a room squeezed into a single cubic centimeter.  The early universe is in a very simple and structureless configuration, even if it is low entropy.

Susan--  I think you&#039;re on the right track.  There is no universal choice of &quot;open system&quot; and &quot;closed system&quot;; a closed system is just one that is isolated from the outside world, so we can always turn a closed system into an open system by bringing it into contact with something else.

Tim--  Let&#039;s keep the Chapter 3 stuff for next week.  And yes, the free will stuff is explained a bit more later, especially in Chapter 9.  But the basic point is simple:  according to the underlying laws of physics, the past and future are determined by the present.  But we don&#039;t know enough about the present to actually do a very precise prediction or retrodiction.  For the past, however, we also have access to a low-entropy initial condition, which greatly restricts the space of possible things that could have happened.  In the future there is no such boundary condition, so things are much more wide open; that&#039;s what gives us the feeling that the past is settled while the future is still to be decided.

rww--  It&#039;s not that a smooth distribution is high-entropy in the late universe, it&#039;s that a smooth distribution is high-entropy when gravity can be neglected.  That&#039;s certainly not the case in the early universe.  Think of it this way: if a universe like ours were to contract rather than expand, we would not expect it to smooth out along the way.  It would get lumpier as it contracted, entropy increasing all along the way.  It&#039;s only once we get to the very late universe, when everything has fallen into black holes which then begin to evaporate away, that the universe smooths out again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe&#8211;  It&#8217;s misleading to associate &#8220;low entropy&#8221; with &#8220;structure.&#8221;  It&#8217;s true that we often associate low entropy with order and high entropy with disorder, but that&#8217;s a casual gloss that doesn&#8217;t stand up to closer scrutiny.  Low entropy just means <em>unlikely</em>, even if the configuration is extremely simple &#8212; like all the air in a room squeezed into a single cubic centimeter.  The early universe is in a very simple and structureless configuration, even if it is low entropy.</p>
<p>Susan&#8211;  I think you&#8217;re on the right track.  There is no universal choice of &#8220;open system&#8221; and &#8220;closed system&#8221;; a closed system is just one that is isolated from the outside world, so we can always turn a closed system into an open system by bringing it into contact with something else.</p>
<p>Tim&#8211;  Let&#8217;s keep the Chapter 3 stuff for next week.  And yes, the free will stuff is explained a bit more later, especially in Chapter 9.  But the basic point is simple:  according to the underlying laws of physics, the past and future are determined by the present.  But we don&#8217;t know enough about the present to actually do a very precise prediction or retrodiction.  For the past, however, we also have access to a low-entropy initial condition, which greatly restricts the space of possible things that could have happened.  In the future there is no such boundary condition, so things are much more wide open; that&#8217;s what gives us the feeling that the past is settled while the future is still to be decided.</p>
<p>rww&#8211;  It&#8217;s not that a smooth distribution is high-entropy in the late universe, it&#8217;s that a smooth distribution is high-entropy when gravity can be neglected.  That&#8217;s certainly not the case in the early universe.  Think of it this way: if a universe like ours were to contract rather than expand, we would not expect it to smooth out along the way.  It would get lumpier as it contracted, entropy increasing all along the way.  It&#8217;s only once we get to the very late universe, when everything has fallen into black holes which then begin to evaporate away, that the universe smooths out again.</p>
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		<title>By: rww</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2010/01/26/from-eternity-to-book-club-chapter-two/comment-page-1/#comment-112823</link>
		<dc:creator>rww</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jan 2010 16:08:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=3888#comment-112823</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m deeply confused about why a smooth distribution of particles in the early universe is low entropy but a smooth distribution in the late universe is high.  It doesn&#039;t seem right that the difference is the distance between the particles; that just boils down to how long it will take gravity or chance to affect the distribution, no?  And if it is a matter of &quot;how far&quot; and &quot;how long&quot; doesn&#039;t that assume some preferred scale?

As a poster said above, I won&#039;t be offended to learn that I have missed the whole point.  I&#039;m once through the book (obviously too quickly) and look forward to reading it a second time in step  with the blog.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m deeply confused about why a smooth distribution of particles in the early universe is low entropy but a smooth distribution in the late universe is high.  It doesn&#8217;t seem right that the difference is the distance between the particles; that just boils down to how long it will take gravity or chance to affect the distribution, no?  And if it is a matter of &#8220;how far&#8221; and &#8220;how long&#8221; doesn&#8217;t that assume some preferred scale?</p>
<p>As a poster said above, I won&#8217;t be offended to learn that I have missed the whole point.  I&#8217;m once through the book (obviously too quickly) and look forward to reading it a second time in step  with the blog.</p>
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		<title>By: kim</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2010/01/26/from-eternity-to-book-club-chapter-two/comment-page-1/#comment-112822</link>
		<dc:creator>kim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jan 2010 16:05:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=3888#comment-112822</guid>
		<description>I vote for 1 chapter a week.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I vote for 1 chapter a week.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim van Beek</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2010/01/26/from-eternity-to-book-club-chapter-two/comment-page-1/#comment-112806</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim van Beek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jan 2010 09:35:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=3888#comment-112806</guid>
		<description>Hi there,
just discovered this thread and did not catch up yet, so: Sorry if I repeat something that has already been said.
Right now I&#039;m reading the &quot;spacetime&quot; chapter (p.74), but I found already enough sentences that I would like to see in every textbook on GR or thermodynamics, maybe we could collect them on a web page dedicated to this purpose? 
Example: p.50, &quot;The correct deduction is not that general relativity predicts a singularity, but that general relativity predicts that the universe evolves into a configuration where general relativity itself breaks down&quot;.
Of course we can accept that GR hints at something like black holes, and that there is convincing - indirect - evidence for the existence of entities like black holes from cosmological observation, and that it is a valid topic to discuss - but that is often confused with the statement that GR &quot;predicts&quot; black wholes. 

Now to a question: Sean, you mention that the concept of free will is connected to the arrow of time. Right now I do not know how to make sense of that. Is it somehow connected to this line of thought: &quot;I have a free will, this is not a contradictory to the existence of an 	omniscient  entity. If you offer me different kinds of ice-cream, I have the free will to choose chocolat or vanilla. After I chose, you know my choice, because now it is in your past. That is not a contradiction to my ability to choose freely. If a beeing exists to whom everything in my future lies in it&#039;s past, it would already know of all my choices, despite the fact that I am, was and will be free to choose.&quot;
Is that somehow connected to what you have in mind? Is it explained in more detail in later chapters of your book?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi there,<br />
just discovered this thread and did not catch up yet, so: Sorry if I repeat something that has already been said.<br />
Right now I&#8217;m reading the &#8220;spacetime&#8221; chapter (p.74), but I found already enough sentences that I would like to see in every textbook on GR or thermodynamics, maybe we could collect them on a web page dedicated to this purpose?<br />
Example: p.50, &#8220;The correct deduction is not that general relativity predicts a singularity, but that general relativity predicts that the universe evolves into a configuration where general relativity itself breaks down&#8221;.<br />
Of course we can accept that GR hints at something like black holes, and that there is convincing &#8211; indirect &#8211; evidence for the existence of entities like black holes from cosmological observation, and that it is a valid topic to discuss &#8211; but that is often confused with the statement that GR &#8220;predicts&#8221; black wholes. </p>
<p>Now to a question: Sean, you mention that the concept of free will is connected to the arrow of time. Right now I do not know how to make sense of that. Is it somehow connected to this line of thought: &#8220;I have a free will, this is not a contradictory to the existence of an 	omniscient  entity. If you offer me different kinds of ice-cream, I have the free will to choose chocolat or vanilla. After I chose, you know my choice, because now it is in your past. That is not a contradiction to my ability to choose freely. If a beeing exists to whom everything in my future lies in it&#8217;s past, it would already know of all my choices, despite the fact that I am, was and will be free to choose.&#8221;<br />
Is that somehow connected to what you have in mind? Is it explained in more detail in later chapters of your book?</p>
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		<title>By: Susan</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2010/01/26/from-eternity-to-book-club-chapter-two/comment-page-1/#comment-112798</link>
		<dc:creator>Susan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jan 2010 05:54:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=3888#comment-112798</guid>
		<description>Your examples are great, but I am doing my own to learn better.       So I have a sun heated rock in a bowl of cold water on my kitchen counter. If I leave it alone, later everything will be at more or less the same temperature. If I measure at intervals, and do the math, the numbers go up, and can&#039;t go down, and entropy goes up. So now I decide I don&#039;t like how this is going at all. So I put the rock in my gas oven, microwave the bowl of water,turn up the room heat, get out the hair dryer, and start again. Still the entropy will go up overall. The energy  from the burning gas, micromaves and electricity all have to be considered. Plus I am burning a lot of calories waving the hair dryer and moving things around. ( I wish! ). Entropy is going up all the time, up until I throw the rock back out in the yard, and let it effect the entropy out there. Now the temperature, measuring and math are probably the 2nd law. The system has had a object added to it and is definitely becoming more disorderly. Both ideas are increasing entropy, so it counts to the same thing, and I can move on to chapter 3. ( If this isn&#039;t mostly right, I will be happy to read 2 over ). NOW it seems to me that the first rock and bowl group is the &quot;closed system&quot;, and the larger messy group should be the &quot;open system&quot;, but that doesn&#039;t seem to say that , as I am reading it. So for clairity, which system is open and which is closed?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your examples are great, but I am doing my own to learn better.       So I have a sun heated rock in a bowl of cold water on my kitchen counter. If I leave it alone, later everything will be at more or less the same temperature. If I measure at intervals, and do the math, the numbers go up, and can&#8217;t go down, and entropy goes up. So now I decide I don&#8217;t like how this is going at all. So I put the rock in my gas oven, microwave the bowl of water,turn up the room heat, get out the hair dryer, and start again. Still the entropy will go up overall. The energy  from the burning gas, micromaves and electricity all have to be considered. Plus I am burning a lot of calories waving the hair dryer and moving things around. ( I wish! ). Entropy is going up all the time, up until I throw the rock back out in the yard, and let it effect the entropy out there. Now the temperature, measuring and math are probably the 2nd law. The system has had a object added to it and is definitely becoming more disorderly. Both ideas are increasing entropy, so it counts to the same thing, and I can move on to chapter 3. ( If this isn&#8217;t mostly right, I will be happy to read 2 over ). NOW it seems to me that the first rock and bowl group is the &#8220;closed system&#8221;, and the larger messy group should be the &#8220;open system&#8221;, but that doesn&#8217;t seem to say that , as I am reading it. So for clairity, which system is open and which is closed?</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Shimpfky</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2010/01/26/from-eternity-to-book-club-chapter-two/comment-page-1/#comment-112797</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Shimpfky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jan 2010 05:34:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=3888#comment-112797</guid>
		<description>Hi Sean, 

I had some catching up to do as I just found your book over the weekend.  I&#039;m really enjoying it, thanks!

I found the idea that the early universe was extremely low in entropy especially interesting.  Now I was a humanities guy, so my knowledge of this stuff comes only from books on popular science.  I&#039;ve not seen other books that highlight the low entropy as one of the early universe&#039;s qualities.  I&#039;m not sure why, the idea seems on its face to be a deep and rich one!  

Now I tend to associate low entropy with order and structure, and high entropy with disorder and randomness.  So seeing that connection highlighted, the vision that comes to mind is of an early universe that displayed elaborate structure.  Am I mistaken on that?  

Best wishes!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Sean, </p>
<p>I had some catching up to do as I just found your book over the weekend.  I&#8217;m really enjoying it, thanks!</p>
<p>I found the idea that the early universe was extremely low in entropy especially interesting.  Now I was a humanities guy, so my knowledge of this stuff comes only from books on popular science.  I&#8217;ve not seen other books that highlight the low entropy as one of the early universe&#8217;s qualities.  I&#8217;m not sure why, the idea seems on its face to be a deep and rich one!  </p>
<p>Now I tend to associate low entropy with order and structure, and high entropy with disorder and randomness.  So seeing that connection highlighted, the vision that comes to mind is of an early universe that displayed elaborate structure.  Am I mistaken on that?  </p>
<p>Best wishes!</p>
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