Comments on: Live octopus lollipop

By: capitalistimperialistpig

capitalistimperialistpig — Sat, 19 Jun 2010 13:08:37 +0000

I was struck by the number commentators who complimented Daniel on his “courage” for eating a live, still struggling animal. Oddly enough, I was reminded that certain murderous gangs used to exchange similar praise when one of them committed some specially henious act – they claimed that it took more “heart” to kill a child than an adult. I wonder if Nazi death camp guards had similar traditions.

By: lookylou

lookylou — Mon, 14 Jun 2010 06:21:09 +0000

I’m with Jimbo here: only way I’d do (or watch) that is to be marooned on a life raft in the Pacific. Plus, I think it’s actually illegal in many states in the U.S……..

By: horrible

horrible — Sat, 12 Jun 2010 17:44:21 +0000

what a horrible post.

By: Mantis

Mantis — Fri, 11 Jun 2010 12:18:35 +0000

I would love to see a giant octopus returning the favor by swallowing and digesting you alive.

Brian: “The octopus is a machine and it is not intelligent nor self aware.”

Octopus is a machine in the same way you are one.

The only thing that makes humans unique among animals is the complex speech, but self-awareness isn’t based on speech so animals are pretty much guaranteed to be self-aware. Unfortunately there is no good way to quantify self-awareness even in humans, in animals it is completely hopeless. Yes, it could be lower then ours and in the case of many simple organisms with few neural cells it most likely is, but there is no way to tell how much lower and it is also quite possible there are animals who are actually more self aware then we are.

Either way making definite statements about it will remain impossible until we have a proper scientific theory of self-awareness but the tiny progress so far means it will be a long time before we do if at all.

For now the mere possibility of animals being self-aware should be more then enough reason to spare them needless suffering.

By: P

Fri, 11 Jun 2010 11:26:38 +0000

Dude, if I were George Smoot I would kick your ass for putting that horrible picture online

By: Carl Brannen

Carl Brannen — Fri, 11 Jun 2010 09:28:04 +0000

Ben Franklin’s comment on this would likely be that the octopus eats other animals, why shouldn’t we eat it?

By: Bjørn Østman

Bjørn Østman — Fri, 11 Jun 2010 05:00:54 +0000

13. Brian Mingus Says:
June 10th, 2010 at 3:41 pm
The octopus is a machine and it is not intelligent nor self aware. To the extent that the experience is painful, it is unable to reflect on its own pain. The pain serves as a reinforcement learning signal to train the machine not to do what it’s doing, which clearly, in the situation of being eaten by a human, is futile and largely ignorable.

A machine? How the heck do you know? The same way that I know you are a machine? “Ignorable”? Perhaps you can ignore it. Can you ignore it it in human babies who can’t self-reflect? Pft!

By: Low Math, Meekly Interacting

Low Math, Meekly Interacting — Fri, 11 Jun 2010 00:14:52 +0000

This reminds me a little of some of my trips to Chinatown with the lab. The food was cooked, but that story they tell you about the restaurants having a different menu for the Mainlanders? Well, it’s true. Get ‘em a little liquored up, and you experience the full-on, open-mouthed, belching authenticity of a festive Chinese meal. Lots of things with their heads still attached, and a candid view of those heads being consumed. Shrimp, in particular, got to me. They were perhaps the least exotic item on the menu, but with the full complement of feelers, I had the interesting experience of talking to several people with these antennae and whatever other appendages sticking straight out of their mouths, wiggling and waving about with each crunchy bite. Had any of the menu been alive, I think I might have fainted or something. You’ve more intestinal fortitude than I, good sir.

By: DaveH

DaveH — Thu, 10 Jun 2010 23:11:58 +0000

@ Brian, 13,

The ability or inability to reflect upon pain does not make an experience more or less painful. Pain serves much the same function in the octopus as it does in humans, whose younger babies are not themselves particularly reflective about pain. For that matter, I’m not particularly reflective about pain, other than that pain bloody hurts.

Futility is not generally held to be a criteria for justifiably ignoring the pain of others. Not in general and thankfully not in the medical profession either.

I don’t quite know how painful a live octopus finds being eaten, but the arguments for or against it surely have little to do with the capacity for contemplation or the futility of protest.

By: Brian Mingus

Brian Mingus — Thu, 10 Jun 2010 22:41:39 +0000

The octopus is a machine and it is not intelligent nor self aware. To the extent that the experience is painful, it is unable to reflect on its own pain. The pain serves as a reinforcement learning signal to train the machine not to do what it’s doing, which clearly, in the situation of being eaten by a human, is futile and largely ignorable.

By: Ellipsis

Ellipsis — Thu, 10 Jun 2010 17:45:34 +0000

I ate the adrenal glands of a live walrus in Iglukkak once.

By: wds

wds — Thu, 10 Jun 2010 17:37:23 +0000

Fail @ reading comprehension, Katharine, it was the Korean woman eating a live octopus. You don’t have to agree with the local customs, but you shouldn’t jump on Daniel for simply reporting on them.

Still, I understand the disgust. Around here, killing animals is usually required by law to be quick and painless. I don’t think being swallowed live applies.

By: Jonathan

Jonathan — Thu, 10 Jun 2010 16:23:49 +0000

The octopus has generally been chopped up and is not eaten alive as far as I understand it. The octopus keeps moving for around 20 minutes after it’s been dissected. Eating chopped up octopus is considerably less cruel than eating any egg which has come from a battery hen in my opinion. I ate this dish (San nak ji) in Beijing and had lots of people who were quite happy to eat meat from completely unknown sources tell me that it was cruel to eat this.

The other thing that should be noted however is that people do die from time to time eating this dish as they choke on a tentacle which refuses to go down.

By: CoffeeCupContrails

CoffeeCupContrails — Thu, 10 Jun 2010 15:52:04 +0000

Great post, Daniel.

#7 Jumblepudding, you beat me to it.

I think I would eat the octopus alive. Somehow, there’s something mildly satisfying and liberating in connecting with the animal deep in me.

Daniel, do you chew the live octopus or just swallow it? Does it wiggle in your tummy?

By: Bjørn Østman

Bjørn Østman — Thu, 10 Jun 2010 15:25:36 +0000

Perhaps the live octopus was trying to escape from the woman’s mouth because the experience of being eating alive was really painful?

By: Jumblepudding

Jumblepudding — Thu, 10 Jun 2010 14:37:27 +0000

If I tried to eat a live octopus and it escaped, it might be the most intelligent thing ever to come out of my mouth.

By: Katharine

Katharine — Thu, 10 Jun 2010 13:27:52 +0000

That’s cruel to the octopus you ate. You couldn’t be bothered to simply refuse to eat it?

By: Non-Believer

Non-Believer — Thu, 10 Jun 2010 12:04:19 +0000

Wow. You are brave. I could only have done it if they weren’t moving. It would have taken a great deal of internal fortitude, but I think I could have done it.
But anything that is still moving….Even starving to death, I would have to wait until it wasn’t moving anymore.
And when you described the tentacles clinging to the inside of your mouth. Arrrghhh!

Great article. Brave Culinary Adventure

By: j9

j9 — Thu, 10 Jun 2010 10:25:38 +0000

Great writing. Para 3 would make a great opening para for a book.

By: Solitha

Solitha — Thu, 10 Jun 2010 06:21:14 +0000

The octopus is known to have a startling intelligence. Nevertheless, a being supposedly more intelligent has no problem in deciding that this… what is it supposed to be? Fun? Culture?… is more important than being humane.