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	<title>Comments on: Reluctance to Let Go</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2010/06/16/reluctance-to-let-go/</link>
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		<title>By: The Hidden Dimensions of Science Vs. Religion &#124; The Veritas Magazine</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2010/06/16/reluctance-to-let-go/#comment-62659</link>
		<dc:creator>The Hidden Dimensions of Science Vs. Religion &#124; The Veritas Magazine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Aug 2010 02:27:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=5004#comment-62659</guid>
		<description>[...] question drew sparks in the science blogosphere, last month.  I was glad to see the issue raised.  The [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] question drew sparks in the science blogosphere, last month.  I was glad to see the issue raised.  The [...] </p>
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		<title>By: assman</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2010/06/16/reluctance-to-let-go/#comment-62658</link>
		<dc:creator>assman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Aug 2010 05:57:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=5004#comment-62658</guid>
		<description>This argument is funny.  Religion does not pose any threat to science.

But left wingers do!  An enormous threat.  Environmentalism, feminism and all manner of ism have done enormous damage to good science.  But you won&#039;t hear from Sean about any of those things because he happens to agree with them.  When are we going to have a discussion of how feminism and marxism have distorted social science research.  Or how environmentalist beliefs have brought idiotic notions like Teleological notions back into science (Gaia hypothesis).  Group selectionism anyone.  Are those crickets I hear.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This argument is funny.  Religion does not pose any threat to science.</p>
<p>But left wingers do!  An enormous threat.  Environmentalism, feminism and all manner of ism have done enormous damage to good science.  But you won&#8217;t hear from Sean about any of those things because he happens to agree with them.  When are we going to have a discussion of how feminism and marxism have distorted social science research.  Or how environmentalist beliefs have brought idiotic notions like Teleological notions back into science (Gaia hypothesis).  Group selectionism anyone.  Are those crickets I hear.</p>
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		<title>By: raziela</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2010/06/16/reluctance-to-let-go/#comment-62657</link>
		<dc:creator>raziela</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jul 2010 18:52:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=5004#comment-62657</guid>
		<description>mmm HELLO ALL,

I must disagree. There is a soul, there is a God. Science deals very much with nature and physical reality. God is above the natural world. A totally separate reality. Let us not forget Egypt when God destroyed Egypt by altering all the natural laws. Just as you can not find the soul in the body through surgery you can not discover a spiritual God through science. God will show Himself when the time is right and all mankind will believe.

I can out argue any of you atheists but I don&#039;t have time or inclination to prove to you how non sensical your arguments are.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>mmm HELLO ALL,</p>
<p>I must disagree. There is a soul, there is a God. Science deals very much with nature and physical reality. God is above the natural world. A totally separate reality. Let us not forget Egypt when God destroyed Egypt by altering all the natural laws. Just as you can not find the soul in the body through surgery you can not discover a spiritual God through science. God will show Himself when the time is right and all mankind will believe.</p>
<p>I can out argue any of you atheists but I don&#8217;t have time or inclination to prove to you how non sensical your arguments are.</p>
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		<title>By: David Mebane</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2010/06/16/reluctance-to-let-go/#comment-62656</link>
		<dc:creator>David Mebane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jul 2010 03:45:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=5004#comment-62656</guid>
		<description>One definition of extremism is the refusal to acknowledge the challenges faced by your own professed philosophy.  One challenge that uncompromising atheists have trouble acknowledging is the free will paradox.  If there&#039;s no &quot;strong conception of free will,&quot; then I&#039;m afraid that there&#039;s no strong conception of science -- the possession of a free will by persons is a built-in assumption of the scientific method.  If there&#039;s no free will, then all of our hypotheses and judgments about those hypotheses based on evidence are pre-ordained, and therefore meaningless in a truly objective sense.  But if there is free will -- then, well, things are more complicated that just a set of laws that we already know.

Although one thing is completely predictable: no strident atheist posting here, including the author of this blog, will be given pause by this simple, fundamental and inescapable paradox.  (Which, incidentally, is not resolved by quantum mechanics -- which has uncertainty but fixed probabilities -- nor chaos theory, which is ultimately deterministic.)

And another thing.  I&#039;ll tell you what&#039;s even worse than extremism.  Internet extremism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One definition of extremism is the refusal to acknowledge the challenges faced by your own professed philosophy.  One challenge that uncompromising atheists have trouble acknowledging is the free will paradox.  If there&#8217;s no &#8220;strong conception of free will,&#8221; then I&#8217;m afraid that there&#8217;s no strong conception of science &#8212; the possession of a free will by persons is a built-in assumption of the scientific method.  If there&#8217;s no free will, then all of our hypotheses and judgments about those hypotheses based on evidence are pre-ordained, and therefore meaningless in a truly objective sense.  But if there is free will &#8212; then, well, things are more complicated that just a set of laws that we already know.</p>
<p>Although one thing is completely predictable: no strident atheist posting here, including the author of this blog, will be given pause by this simple, fundamental and inescapable paradox.  (Which, incidentally, is not resolved by quantum mechanics &#8212; which has uncertainty but fixed probabilities &#8212; nor chaos theory, which is ultimately deterministic.)</p>
<p>And another thing.  I&#8217;ll tell you what&#8217;s even worse than extremism.  Internet extremism.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert O'Brien</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2010/06/16/reluctance-to-let-go/#comment-62655</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert O'Brien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jul 2010 14:33:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=5004#comment-62655</guid>
		<description>&quot;The problem is that the minds of Religious Believers have been Poisoned by Religion.
&#039;Religion Poisons Everything&#039;: Christpopher Hitchens
&#039;Religion is a Mental Health Hazard&#039; : Me.&quot;

&quot;Hitchens is a pretentious moron and so is  Tobin.&quot;--R O&#039;Brien</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The problem is that the minds of Religious Believers have been Poisoned by Religion.<br />
&#8216;Religion Poisons Everything&#8217;: Christpopher Hitchens<br />
&#8216;Religion is a Mental Health Hazard&#8217; : Me.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Hitchens is a pretentious moron and so is  Tobin.&#8221;&#8211;R O&#8217;Brien</p>
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		<title>By: Robert O'Brien</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2010/06/16/reluctance-to-let-go/#comment-62654</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert O'Brien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jul 2010 14:31:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=5004#comment-62654</guid>
		<description>&quot;There is no life after death; there’s no spiritual essence that can preserve a human consciousness outside its physical body. Life is a chemical reaction; there is no moment at conception or otherwise when a soul  is implanted in a body. We evolved as a result of natural processes over the history of the Earth; there is no supernatural intelligence that created us and maintains an interest in our behavior. There is no Natural Law that specifies how human beings should live, including who they should marry. There is no strong conception of free will, in the sense that we are laws unto ourselves over and above the laws of nature.&quot;

Your mere assertions are noted and discarded; they are no more intrinsically valuable coming from you than if they had come from a plumber or a pizza delivery guy. You might as well be a Mormon missionary bearing your testimony of Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;There is no life after death; there’s no spiritual essence that can preserve a human consciousness outside its physical body. Life is a chemical reaction; there is no moment at conception or otherwise when a soul  is implanted in a body. We evolved as a result of natural processes over the history of the Earth; there is no supernatural intelligence that created us and maintains an interest in our behavior. There is no Natural Law that specifies how human beings should live, including who they should marry. There is no strong conception of free will, in the sense that we are laws unto ourselves over and above the laws of nature.&#8221;</p>
<p>Your mere assertions are noted and discarded; they are no more intrinsically valuable coming from you than if they had come from a plumber or a pizza delivery guy. You might as well be a Mormon missionary bearing your testimony of Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon.</p>
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		<title>By: Reluctance to let go of religion &#171; Rage on Omnipotent</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2010/06/16/reluctance-to-let-go/#comment-62653</link>
		<dc:creator>Reluctance to let go of religion &#171; Rage on Omnipotent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jul 2010 15:30:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=5004#comment-62653</guid>
		<description>[...] I&#8217;m not sure the (paraphrased) &#8220;movement to exclude anyone who thinks that science and religion are incompatible&#8221; is more than a straw man, but there are some good points in the article. [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I&#8217;m not sure the (paraphrased) &#8220;movement to exclude anyone who thinks that science and religion are incompatible&#8221; is more than a straw man, but there are some good points in the article. [...] </p>
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		<title>By: Reluctance to Let Go &#171; The Aqal</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2010/06/16/reluctance-to-let-go/#comment-62652</link>
		<dc:creator>Reluctance to Let Go &#171; The Aqal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jul 2010 20:49:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=5004#comment-62652</guid>
		<description>[...] Read on [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Read on [...] </p>
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		<title>By: Robert Tobin</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2010/06/16/reluctance-to-let-go/#comment-62651</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Tobin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jul 2010 11:01:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=5004#comment-62651</guid>
		<description>The problem is that the minds of Religious Believers have been Poisoned by Religion.
&quot;Religion Poisons Everything&quot;: Christpopher Hitchens
&quot;Religion is a Mental Health Hazard&quot; : Me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem is that the minds of Religious Believers have been Poisoned by Religion.<br />
&#8220;Religion Poisons Everything&#8221;: Christpopher Hitchens<br />
&#8220;Religion is a Mental Health Hazard&#8221; : Me.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Ron Ringsrud</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2010/06/16/reluctance-to-let-go/#comment-62650</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron Ringsrud</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jul 2010 16:31:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=5004#comment-62650</guid>
		<description>You seem to have a problem letting go of your old-fashioned attachment to scientific deconstructionism.  You proclaim that the universe is just like a big clock and that we have now figured out all the wheels and gears and know how they work together. But the learned philosopher of science, Dr. Karl Popper points out that the universe is not like a clock that can be taken apart piece by piece.

Buckminster Fuller announced in 1939 that all 92 elements of nature were now discovered and we are entering a steep period of technological change. Nobody paid much attention to that announcement either.  However, quantum physics has shown, without a doubt, that the universe id NOT like a clock – it is, like Poppers points out, like a cloud; that is to say, it is non-localized and unquantifiable. In fact, the quantum description seems to match the description given by mystics and seers from all ancient cultures.

So this is a time that we should be celebrating subjectivity and the human side of nature; its everywhere. Intelligence and consciousness did not just show up when man’s brain stem developed; it was there all the time waiting for us to recognize it. And by the way, astrology works (http://www.emeraldmine.com/jyotish2.htm).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You seem to have a problem letting go of your old-fashioned attachment to scientific deconstructionism.  You proclaim that the universe is just like a big clock and that we have now figured out all the wheels and gears and know how they work together. But the learned philosopher of science, Dr. Karl Popper points out that the universe is not like a clock that can be taken apart piece by piece.</p>
<p>Buckminster Fuller announced in 1939 that all 92 elements of nature were now discovered and we are entering a steep period of technological change. Nobody paid much attention to that announcement either.  However, quantum physics has shown, without a doubt, that the universe id NOT like a clock – it is, like Poppers points out, like a cloud; that is to say, it is non-localized and unquantifiable. In fact, the quantum description seems to match the description given by mystics and seers from all ancient cultures.</p>
<p>So this is a time that we should be celebrating subjectivity and the human side of nature; its everywhere. Intelligence and consciousness did not just show up when man’s brain stem developed; it was there all the time waiting for us to recognize it. And by the way, astrology works (<a href="http://www.emeraldmine.com/jyotish2.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.emeraldmine.com/jyotish2.htm</a>).</p>
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