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	<title>Comments on: Against Space</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2010/11/10/against-space/</link>
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		<title>By: Anchor</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2010/11/10/against-space/#comment-64930</link>
		<dc:creator>Anchor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Dec 2010 23:03:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=5743#comment-64930</guid>
		<description>Anders (#9, 10, 14) can speak freely as anyone else and supply contrary opinion. In this case, Anders eventually resolves his problems (#14) with things his brain doesn&#039;t get:

1. &quot;...there has never been any experimental proof of hawking radiation existing.&quot;

and

2. &quot;Another thing i don’t get is the correlation between the information content of a black hole and its event horizon.&quot;

3. Concluding that, &quot;There are apparently a lot of interesting things that can be drawn from this correlation, like the holographic universe theory, but the whole “increased entropy leads to increased area” thing is also entirely theoretical unless it’s been possible to watch how black holes actually behave when they get more energy from surrounding space.&quot;

AFTER he said this (#9 and #10):

4. &quot;All this would be cool to see you talk about in a more simplified and/or pedagogical way for us people who just have this stuff as a hobby interest. Maybe a little audio to go with the slides? For what it’s worth i would personally enjoy that.&quot;

...not to mention a backhanded sleight in the form of this:

5. &quot;Some smooth analogies from the smooth analogies master.&quot;


It is no wonder that physicists automatically spurn the likes of Anders, who might understandably tend to figure that every person who examines &quot;this stuff as a hobby interest&quot; is most probably a crackpot.

It is quite evident you also &quot;don&#039;t get&quot; that you find no reason to understand why it is crucial that YOU understand. Any barking from your kind is nothing more than a contest. You serve no actual purpose but to diminish the authentic amateur theorist that is actually out there that may have something of substance to contribute.

Wouldn&#039;t you think so Anders,  &quot;according to [your] brain&quot;?

Feeling obnoxiously clever is not the same as being even slightly let alone fully informed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anders (#9, 10, 14) can speak freely as anyone else and supply contrary opinion. In this case, Anders eventually resolves his problems (#14) with things his brain doesn&#8217;t get:</p>
<p>1. &#8220;&#8230;there has never been any experimental proof of hawking radiation existing.&#8221;</p>
<p>and</p>
<p>2. &#8220;Another thing i don’t get is the correlation between the information content of a black hole and its event horizon.&#8221;</p>
<p>3. Concluding that, &#8220;There are apparently a lot of interesting things that can be drawn from this correlation, like the holographic universe theory, but the whole “increased entropy leads to increased area” thing is also entirely theoretical unless it’s been possible to watch how black holes actually behave when they get more energy from surrounding space.&#8221;</p>
<p>AFTER he said this (#9 and #10):</p>
<p>4. &#8220;All this would be cool to see you talk about in a more simplified and/or pedagogical way for us people who just have this stuff as a hobby interest. Maybe a little audio to go with the slides? For what it’s worth i would personally enjoy that.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8230;not to mention a backhanded sleight in the form of this:</p>
<p>5. &#8220;Some smooth analogies from the smooth analogies master.&#8221;</p>
<p>It is no wonder that physicists automatically spurn the likes of Anders, who might understandably tend to figure that every person who examines &#8220;this stuff as a hobby interest&#8221; is most probably a crackpot.</p>
<p>It is quite evident you also &#8220;don&#8217;t get&#8221; that you find no reason to understand why it is crucial that YOU understand. Any barking from your kind is nothing more than a contest. You serve no actual purpose but to diminish the authentic amateur theorist that is actually out there that may have something of substance to contribute.</p>
<p>Wouldn&#8217;t you think so Anders,  &#8220;according to [your] brain&#8221;?</p>
<p>Feeling obnoxiously clever is not the same as being even slightly let alone fully informed.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel Tung</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2010/11/10/against-space/#comment-64929</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Tung</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Nov 2010 09:51:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=5743#comment-64929</guid>
		<description>My view on the last is exactly the opposite.
Only a new understanding of space (and time) will help us understand the beginning of universe. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My view on the last is exactly the opposite.<br />
Only a new understanding of space (and time) will help us understand the beginning of universe. <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Le temps est-il une illusion ? &#171; Dr. Goulu</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2010/11/10/against-space/#comment-64928</link>
		<dc:creator>Le temps est-il une illusion ? &#171; Dr. Goulu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Nov 2010 14:04:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=5743#comment-64928</guid>
		<description>[...] fq(x). Il défend le temps dans une discussion d&#8217;une heure avec Craig Callender et dans &#171;&#160;Against Space&#160;&#187;, une récente présentation où il se livre au même jeu que les présentistes, mais à l&#8217;envers : il élimine [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] fq(x). Il défend le temps dans une discussion d&#8217;une heure avec Craig Callender et dans &laquo;&nbsp;Against Space&nbsp;&raquo;, une récente présentation où il se livre au même jeu que les présentistes, mais à l&#8217;envers : il élimine [...] </p>
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		<title>By: Aiya-Oba</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2010/11/10/against-space/#comment-64927</link>
		<dc:creator>Aiya-Oba</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Nov 2010 16:16:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=5743#comment-64927</guid>
		<description>Time is changeless (absolute) Space.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Time is changeless (absolute) Space.</p>
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		<title>By: João Gil</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2010/11/10/against-space/#comment-64926</link>
		<dc:creator>João Gil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Nov 2010 04:53:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=5743#comment-64926</guid>
		<description>I think you are all nuts.. if I want time I´ll buy it and if i want space I´ll think of time. Time is an entity under which all thinkin entity needs to be in reference to. If the thinking entity refers its energetic power to a non referable entity it goes into void and dismisses its abiltity to comunicate the reference it refered to.  This means the leg was bigger than the step. This does not imply that the energic power to think non referable entities proves a natural understanding of the means by which the thinking entity thinks itself in time-space. It just proves that the spiral in which a theory is proven is decayed in along with the energetic power to think of reference and non reference by time itself. ultimately and AHHHhhhhhhh I WAS KILLED BY ALIENS</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you are all nuts.. if I want time I´ll buy it and if i want space I´ll think of time. Time is an entity under which all thinkin entity needs to be in reference to. If the thinking entity refers its energetic power to a non referable entity it goes into void and dismisses its abiltity to comunicate the reference it refered to.  This means the leg was bigger than the step. This does not imply that the energic power to think non referable entities proves a natural understanding of the means by which the thinking entity thinks itself in time-space. It just proves that the spiral in which a theory is proven is decayed in along with the energetic power to think of reference and non reference by time itself. ultimately and AHHHhhhhhhh I WAS KILLED BY ALIENS</p>
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		<title>By: George Musser</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2010/11/10/against-space/#comment-64925</link>
		<dc:creator>George Musser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Nov 2010 07:49:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=5743#comment-64925</guid>
		<description>Great talk! Holography is also often said to rule out condensed-matter-analogue theories, but doesn&#039;t Horava, for one, argue that it is a low-energy phenomenon -- that, at high energies, there are more degrees of freedom than the holographic bound would imply?
George</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great talk! Holography is also often said to rule out condensed-matter-analogue theories, but doesn&#8217;t Horava, for one, argue that it is a low-energy phenomenon &#8212; that, at high energies, there are more degrees of freedom than the holographic bound would imply?<br />
George</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Stankus</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2010/11/10/against-space/#comment-64924</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Stankus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Nov 2010 20:12:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=5743#comment-64924</guid>
		<description>Sean -- I&#039;m glad to be reading you here at CV regularly again.  Your &quot;fundamentalism&quot; talk was fun to look at! but what stood out for me was the lack of reference to causality.  When you ask &quot;What is fundamental?&quot; it seems to me that causality is the most basic answer, more basic even than time.  Cause follows effect; we only need to talk about time in order to describe causality -- or, to put it the other way, if there were no causality then it would be senseless/impossible to talk about time.

My intuitive, back-of-the-back-of-the-mind feeling is that both space and time should both emerge from causality.  At my Bear of Little Brain level this fits right in with relativity: from any small patch that is local in space and time, the patches that are causally connected to it are in separated in the &quot;time&quot; direction, and those not causally connected are separated in the &quot;space&quot; direction.  It&#039;s sort of a matter of taste as to which of these you want to call &quot;privileged,&quot; but it&#039;s a basic reason to expect two different kinds of separations before making any claims about geometry or even continuity.  In Lee Smolin&#039;s book he describes one of the approaches to quantum gravity taking this view, that the fundamental descriptor of the universe is the causality network between different points/events; though at the time of that writing, IIRC, he said they hadn&#039;t made much progress.  Know anything about it?  (sorry if this is already gone over in your book, I&#039;ve only recently been able to afford a copy and haven&#039;t gotten that far yet)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sean &#8212; I&#8217;m glad to be reading you here at CV regularly again.  Your &#8220;fundamentalism&#8221; talk was fun to look at! but what stood out for me was the lack of reference to causality.  When you ask &#8220;What is fundamental?&#8221; it seems to me that causality is the most basic answer, more basic even than time.  Cause follows effect; we only need to talk about time in order to describe causality &#8212; or, to put it the other way, if there were no causality then it would be senseless/impossible to talk about time.</p>
<p>My intuitive, back-of-the-back-of-the-mind feeling is that both space and time should both emerge from causality.  At my Bear of Little Brain level this fits right in with relativity: from any small patch that is local in space and time, the patches that are causally connected to it are in separated in the &#8220;time&#8221; direction, and those not causally connected are separated in the &#8220;space&#8221; direction.  It&#8217;s sort of a matter of taste as to which of these you want to call &#8220;privileged,&#8221; but it&#8217;s a basic reason to expect two different kinds of separations before making any claims about geometry or even continuity.  In Lee Smolin&#8217;s book he describes one of the approaches to quantum gravity taking this view, that the fundamental descriptor of the universe is the causality network between different points/events; though at the time of that writing, IIRC, he said they hadn&#8217;t made much progress.  Know anything about it?  (sorry if this is already gone over in your book, I&#8217;ve only recently been able to afford a copy and haven&#8217;t gotten that far yet)</p>
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		<title>By: Anders</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2010/11/10/against-space/#comment-64923</link>
		<dc:creator>Anders</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Nov 2010 19:11:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=5743#comment-64923</guid>
		<description>According to my brain there has never been any experimental proof of hawking radiation existing. Another thing i don&#039;t get is the correlation between the information content of a black hole and its event horizon. There are apparently a lot of interesting things that can be drawn from this correlation, like the holographic universe theory, but the whole &quot;increased entropy leads to increased area&quot; thing is also entirely theoretical unless it&#039;s been possible to watch how black holes actually behave when they get more energy from surrounding space.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>According to my brain there has never been any experimental proof of hawking radiation existing. Another thing i don&#8217;t get is the correlation between the information content of a black hole and its event horizon. There are apparently a lot of interesting things that can be drawn from this correlation, like the holographic universe theory, but the whole &#8220;increased entropy leads to increased area&#8221; thing is also entirely theoretical unless it&#8217;s been possible to watch how black holes actually behave when they get more energy from surrounding space.</p>
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		<title>By: uhmmm</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2010/11/10/against-space/#comment-64922</link>
		<dc:creator>uhmmm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Nov 2010 18:39:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=5743#comment-64922</guid>
		<description>Is your first &quot;Closing Rumination&quot; bullet point (and really the thrust of your slides up to the AdS/CFT slide) essentially Einstein&#039;s resolution of the hole argument, viz. coordinates are not physically meaningful in themselves but only emerge in the presence of objects with momentum?

Or, quoting him:

&#039;All our spacetime verifications invariably amount to a determination of spacetime coincidences. If, for example, events consisted merely in the motion of material points, then ultimately nothing would be observable but the meeting of two or more of these points.&#039;

&#039;People before me believed that if all the matter in the universe were removed, only space and time would exist. My theory proves that space and time would disappear along with matter.&#039;

or am I misunderstanding the line of thought expressed in your slides?

Also, doubly unwarranted speculative question: at the *other* boundary condition in the limit of one object in (the?  each?) Hubble volume, are there features we can think about that might illuminate (pardon the pun) space and time?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is your first &#8220;Closing Rumination&#8221; bullet point (and really the thrust of your slides up to the AdS/CFT slide) essentially Einstein&#8217;s resolution of the hole argument, viz. coordinates are not physically meaningful in themselves but only emerge in the presence of objects with momentum?</p>
<p>Or, quoting him:</p>
<p>&#8216;All our spacetime verifications invariably amount to a determination of spacetime coincidences. If, for example, events consisted merely in the motion of material points, then ultimately nothing would be observable but the meeting of two or more of these points.&#8217;</p>
<p>&#8216;People before me believed that if all the matter in the universe were removed, only space and time would exist. My theory proves that space and time would disappear along with matter.&#8217;</p>
<p>or am I misunderstanding the line of thought expressed in your slides?</p>
<p>Also, doubly unwarranted speculative question: at the *other* boundary condition in the limit of one object in (the?  each?) Hubble volume, are there features we can think about that might illuminate (pardon the pun) space and time?</p>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2010/11/10/against-space/#comment-64921</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Nov 2010 23:50:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=5743#comment-64921</guid>
		<description>Looks like a v interesting talk, by the way - would&#039;ve been good to hear what you said along with the slides.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Looks like a v interesting talk, by the way &#8211; would&#8217;ve been good to hear what you said along with the slides.</p>
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