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	<title>Comments on: Dark Matter: Just Fine, Thanks</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/02/26/dark-matter-just-fine-thanks/</link>
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		<title>By: Uppsamling av fysiklänkar: mörk materia &#171; Stjärnstoft och kugghjul</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/02/26/dark-matter-just-fine-thanks/#comment-67253</link>
		<dc:creator>Uppsamling av fysiklänkar: mörk materia &#171; Stjärnstoft och kugghjul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Apr 2011 10:06:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=6267#comment-67253</guid>
		<description>[...] Dark matter just fine, thanks En artikel om vad det finns för problem med MOND (modified Newtonian dynamics) som alternativ till mörk materia. (Det här är något jag ofta får frågor om.) Framför allt: även med MOND behöver man mörk materia för en fullständig beskrivning av observationer som gjorts. [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Dark matter just fine, thanks En artikel om vad det finns för problem med MOND (modified Newtonian dynamics) som alternativ till mörk materia. (Det här är något jag ofta får frågor om.) Framför allt: även med MOND behöver man mörk materia för en fullständig beskrivning av observationer som gjorts. [...] </p>
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		<title>By: Bob Sanders</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/02/26/dark-matter-just-fine-thanks/#comment-67252</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Sanders</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Mar 2011 21:46:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=6267#comment-67252</guid>
		<description>Let&#039;s forget about TeVeS or Bimond or generalized Einstein-Aether theories
or any of the complicated relativistic extensions of MOND.  Instead, consider
a minimalist definition:  MOND is an algorithm (and a very simple
algorithm) which allows one to calculate the distribution of force in an
astronomical object from the observed distribution of baryonic matter.
And, as evidenced by rotation curves, it works!  It works extremely well,
even explaining details in rotation curves which are clearly related to
corresponding details in the light or gas distribution.  This fact is remarkable,
and it constitutes a severe challenge to CDM or to any dark matter that
clusters on the scale of galaxies.   How can one image that dark matter
can reproduce this remarkable success of MOND?  To think that
it could presupposes properties of dark matter that is totally at odds
with its perceived nature as a non-interacting (except for gravity),
non-dissipational fluid.  The dark matter fluid is very different from
the baryonic fluid;  the dm  is immune from
influences that affect baryons:  the baryonic fluid can dissipate -- loose energy --,
it can be shocked, it can be removed by supernovae or stellar winds,
it can be swept out in collisions (e.g. the famous Bullet).  Why then should
these two fluids be so intimately connected and similarly distributed
as to subsume the existence of the MOND algorithm?  In fact, the success of
the MOND algorithm on the scale of galaxies is a falsification of CDM
or any dark matter that clusters on the scale of galaxies.  To blandly
state that dark matter exists and accounts for the observations of
galaxy kinematics is to turn a blind eye to a vast range of phenomena;
to imagine that dark matter will someday, when we have more understanding
of the complicated baryonic physics, reproduce the correspondence
of rotation curves to the distribution of baryonic matter is a
leap of faith that is more akin to religion than to science.   This goes as
well for the near perfect Tully-Fisher relation as pointed out by Stacy --
so perfect that the TF by itself implies a connection with physical
law rather than the messy details of galaxy formation.  And how
will dark matter explain the ubiquitous emergence of a0 --
as the acceleration below which the discrepancy appears in galaxies,
as the normalization of the Tully-Fisher and Faber-Jackson relations,
as the internal acceleration of near isothermal systems ranging
from globular clusters to clusters of galaxies, and, when expressed
as surface brightness, as the characteristic (Freeman) surface brightness
of galaxies.  If the putative dark matter particles are ever found
(and I doubt that they will be), then we have a lot of work ahead of us
to understand how these regularities, so neatly encapsulated by MOND,
emerge in the context of a non-interacting, dissipationless, dark matter fluid.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s forget about TeVeS or Bimond or generalized Einstein-Aether theories<br />
or any of the complicated relativistic extensions of MOND.  Instead, consider<br />
a minimalist definition:  MOND is an algorithm (and a very simple<br />
algorithm) which allows one to calculate the distribution of force in an<br />
astronomical object from the observed distribution of baryonic matter.<br />
And, as evidenced by rotation curves, it works!  It works extremely well,<br />
even explaining details in rotation curves which are clearly related to<br />
corresponding details in the light or gas distribution.  This fact is remarkable,<br />
and it constitutes a severe challenge to CDM or to any dark matter that<br />
clusters on the scale of galaxies.   How can one image that dark matter<br />
can reproduce this remarkable success of MOND?  To think that<br />
it could presupposes properties of dark matter that is totally at odds<br />
with its perceived nature as a non-interacting (except for gravity),<br />
non-dissipational fluid.  The dark matter fluid is very different from<br />
the baryonic fluid;  the dm  is immune from<br />
influences that affect baryons:  the baryonic fluid can dissipate &#8212; loose energy &#8211;,<br />
it can be shocked, it can be removed by supernovae or stellar winds,<br />
it can be swept out in collisions (e.g. the famous Bullet).  Why then should<br />
these two fluids be so intimately connected and similarly distributed<br />
as to subsume the existence of the MOND algorithm?  In fact, the success of<br />
the MOND algorithm on the scale of galaxies is a falsification of CDM<br />
or any dark matter that clusters on the scale of galaxies.  To blandly<br />
state that dark matter exists and accounts for the observations of<br />
galaxy kinematics is to turn a blind eye to a vast range of phenomena;<br />
to imagine that dark matter will someday, when we have more understanding<br />
of the complicated baryonic physics, reproduce the correspondence<br />
of rotation curves to the distribution of baryonic matter is a<br />
leap of faith that is more akin to religion than to science.   This goes as<br />
well for the near perfect Tully-Fisher relation as pointed out by Stacy &#8211;<br />
so perfect that the TF by itself implies a connection with physical<br />
law rather than the messy details of galaxy formation.  And how<br />
will dark matter explain the ubiquitous emergence of a0 &#8211;<br />
as the acceleration below which the discrepancy appears in galaxies,<br />
as the normalization of the Tully-Fisher and Faber-Jackson relations,<br />
as the internal acceleration of near isothermal systems ranging<br />
from globular clusters to clusters of galaxies, and, when expressed<br />
as surface brightness, as the characteristic (Freeman) surface brightness<br />
of galaxies.  If the putative dark matter particles are ever found<br />
(and I doubt that they will be), then we have a lot of work ahead of us<br />
to understand how these regularities, so neatly encapsulated by MOND,<br />
emerge in the context of a non-interacting, dissipationless, dark matter fluid.</p>
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		<title>By: Phil_Osopher</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/02/26/dark-matter-just-fine-thanks/#comment-67251</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil_Osopher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Mar 2011 17:07:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=6267#comment-67251</guid>
		<description>An interesting post on MOND on another blog: http://www.scilogs.eu/en/blog/the-dark-matter-crisis/2011-03-21/question-c.ii-mond-works-far-too-well</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An interesting post on MOND on another blog: <a href="http://www.scilogs.eu/en/blog/the-dark-matter-crisis/2011-03-21/question-c.ii-mond-works-far-too-well" rel="nofollow">http://www.scilogs.eu/en/blog/the-dark-matter-crisis/2011-03-21/question-c.ii-mond-works-far-too-well</a></p>
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		<title>By: Juan R. González-Álvarez</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/02/26/dark-matter-just-fine-thanks/#comment-67250</link>
		<dc:creator>Juan R. González-Álvarez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Mar 2011 13:20:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=6267#comment-67250</guid>
		<description>anand srivastava,

I agree with most of what you say. Effectively MOND &quot;&lt;i&gt;kills DM+GR at Galactic Scales&lt;/i&gt;&quot; and effectively this means that &quot;&lt;i&gt;GR needs modification&lt;/i&gt;&quot;.

I did not say that MOND works very well beyond Galactic scales. I said just the contrary and even explained why one must wait discrepancies: &quot;&lt;i&gt;MOND is being applied outside its range of empirical validity&lt;/i&gt;&quot;.

I also wrote in this blog how, thanks to a new theory, &lt;b&gt;we do not need DM (neither DE) to explain observations beyond the Galactic scale anymore&lt;/b&gt;.

FQXi Essays are limited in size by Contest rules, therefore I could not write about all the advantages beyond GR (my first draft Essay was over the size limit and I was forced to eliminate many interesting stuff! For instance, I gave some additional technical details, on how the new canonical theory goes beyond M-theory and the rest of quantum gravity approaches, in &lt;a href=&quot;http://fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/850&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Dr. Tejinder Pal Singh Essay&lt;/a&gt;).

In despite of size limitations, details and further info are given in the cited literature and in the technical notes in my Essay. In the &lt;a href=&quot;http://fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/essay-download/853/__details/Gonzlezlvare_Digital_or_ana.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;technical note in page 9&lt;/a&gt;, I explain the &lt;b&gt;assumptions and approximations over the which GR is based&lt;/b&gt; and how we derive GR from a more fundamental theory. I explain how well-known problems of GR as &quot;&lt;i&gt;the lack of gravitational energy-momentum-stress tensor&lt;/i&gt;&quot;, &quot;&lt;i&gt;spacetime singularities&lt;/i&gt;&quot;, &quot;&lt;i&gt;the problem of the systems of reference&lt;/i&gt;&quot;, &quot;&lt;i&gt;violation of the usual conservation laws&lt;/i&gt;&quot;, and &quot;&lt;i&gt;the impossibility to obtain a consistent quantization of such [geo]metric theory&lt;/i&gt;&quot; are absent in the new theory.

Moreover, I have commented in &lt;a href=&quot;http://fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/875&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Dr. Corda Essay&lt;/a&gt; how we can already go beyond MOND, PCG, TeVeS... explaining data that those theories cannot explain, and also commented I have not still studied Pioneer anomaly enough to say.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>anand srivastava,</p>
<p>I agree with most of what you say. Effectively MOND &#8220;<i>kills DM+GR at Galactic Scales</i>&#8221; and effectively this means that &#8220;<i>GR needs modification</i>&#8220;.</p>
<p>I did not say that MOND works very well beyond Galactic scales. I said just the contrary and even explained why one must wait discrepancies: &#8220;<i>MOND is being applied outside its range of empirical validity</i>&#8220;.</p>
<p>I also wrote in this blog how, thanks to a new theory, <b>we do not need DM (neither DE) to explain observations beyond the Galactic scale anymore</b>.</p>
<p>FQXi Essays are limited in size by Contest rules, therefore I could not write about all the advantages beyond GR (my first draft Essay was over the size limit and I was forced to eliminate many interesting stuff! For instance, I gave some additional technical details, on how the new canonical theory goes beyond M-theory and the rest of quantum gravity approaches, in <a href="http://fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/850" rel="nofollow">Dr. Tejinder Pal Singh Essay</a>).</p>
<p>In despite of size limitations, details and further info are given in the cited literature and in the technical notes in my Essay. In the <a href="http://fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/essay-download/853/__details/Gonzlezlvare_Digital_or_ana.pdf" rel="nofollow">technical note in page 9</a>, I explain the <b>assumptions and approximations over the which GR is based</b> and how we derive GR from a more fundamental theory. I explain how well-known problems of GR as &#8220;<i>the lack of gravitational energy-momentum-stress tensor</i>&#8220;, &#8220;<i>spacetime singularities</i>&#8220;, &#8220;<i>the problem of the systems of reference</i>&#8220;, &#8220;<i>violation of the usual conservation laws</i>&#8220;, and &#8220;<i>the impossibility to obtain a consistent quantization of such [geo]metric theory</i>&#8221; are absent in the new theory.</p>
<p>Moreover, I have commented in <a href="http://fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/875" rel="nofollow">Dr. Corda Essay</a> how we can already go beyond MOND, PCG, TeVeS&#8230; explaining data that those theories cannot explain, and also commented I have not still studied Pioneer anomaly enough to say.</p>
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		<title>By: anand srivastava</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/02/26/dark-matter-just-fine-thanks/#comment-67249</link>
		<dc:creator>anand srivastava</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Mar 2011 11:01:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=6267#comment-67249</guid>
		<description>@123
No MOND does not work very well beyond Galactic scales so we cannot conclude that at all. It is certainly possible, but we cannot determine that from the data alone. But that is not important MOND working at Galactic Scales kills DM+GR at Galactic Scales. This means GR needs modification. We don&#039;t know what the correct theory is going to be. I am not a physicist or a mathematics. I am just a software developer, with an interest in the MOND problem. I can only conclude if a model is good based on its applications and what it predicts. Unfortunately I did not see much effort at resolving different problems of GR in the quoted essay. Particularly MOND and Pioneer Anomaly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@123<br />
No MOND does not work very well beyond Galactic scales so we cannot conclude that at all. It is certainly possible, but we cannot determine that from the data alone. But that is not important MOND working at Galactic Scales kills DM+GR at Galactic Scales. This means GR needs modification. We don&#8217;t know what the correct theory is going to be. I am not a physicist or a mathematics. I am just a software developer, with an interest in the MOND problem. I can only conclude if a model is good based on its applications and what it predicts. Unfortunately I did not see much effort at resolving different problems of GR in the quoted essay. Particularly MOND and Pioneer Anomaly.</p>
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		<title>By: Juan R. González-Álvarez</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/02/26/dark-matter-just-fine-thanks/#comment-67248</link>
		<dc:creator>Juan R. González-Álvarez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Mar 2011 19:07:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=6267#comment-67248</guid>
		<description>anand srivastava,

There is a third solution:

&lt;b&gt;1&#039;) DM does not exist at all.&lt;/b&gt;

&quot;The fact that MOND does not work as well at cluster or higher scales...&quot; This is only partially true

http://arxiv.org/abs/0704.0381

and, of course, discrepancies with MOND do not imply existence of DM, (ΛCDM has also difficulties http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2010ApJ...718...60L), but that MOND is being applied outside its range of empirical validity and that a more general theory beyond MOND is needed.

As commented above (#101), MOND (and generalizations of it) can be derived from a truly general gravitational theory. You are right on that &quot;the encompassing physical theory&quot; was &quot;discovered from a totally unexpected direction&quot;!

Our goal was to correct other known deficiencies of GR (see the FQXi Essays cited above) and, as a bonus, we discovered that MOND and its acceleration scale were natural outcomes from the new theory.

If you look to my FQXi Essay, you will discover that the recent theory is much more general than Verlinde’s theory, which is based in a number of approximations and controversial assumptions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>anand srivastava,</p>
<p>There is a third solution:</p>
<p><b>1&#8242;) DM does not exist at all.</b></p>
<p>&#8220;The fact that MOND does not work as well at cluster or higher scales&#8230;&#8221; This is only partially true</p>
<p><a href="http://arxiv.org/abs/0704.0381" rel="nofollow">http://arxiv.org/abs/0704.0381</a></p>
<p>and, of course, discrepancies with MOND do not imply existence of DM, (ΛCDM has also difficulties <a href="http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2010ApJ" rel="nofollow">http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2010ApJ</a>&#8230;718&#8230;60L), but that MOND is being applied outside its range of empirical validity and that a more general theory beyond MOND is needed.</p>
<p>As commented above (#101), MOND (and generalizations of it) can be derived from a truly general gravitational theory. You are right on that &#8220;the encompassing physical theory&#8221; was &#8220;discovered from a totally unexpected direction&#8221;!</p>
<p>Our goal was to correct other known deficiencies of GR (see the FQXi Essays cited above) and, as a bonus, we discovered that MOND and its acceleration scale were natural outcomes from the new theory.</p>
<p>If you look to my FQXi Essay, you will discover that the recent theory is much more general than Verlinde’s theory, which is based in a number of approximations and controversial assumptions.</p>
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		<title>By: anand srivastava</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/02/26/dark-matter-just-fine-thanks/#comment-67247</link>
		<dc:creator>anand srivastava</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Mar 2011 17:11:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=6267#comment-67247</guid>
		<description>My problem with DM+GR is not that it does not fit the data.
My problem is that the MOND fits the data without needing DM.
Since this simple equation works very well at the galactic scale everywhere. The fits actually keep on improving with more data. There can only be two solutions.
1) DM does not exist at Galactic scale.
2) DM position in space is defined by BMs position in space. This is simply untenable if we believe DM to be separate particles. Also BM is not supposed to interact with DM except by gravitational force. This is totally non-sensible

So the real solution is that DM does not exist at the galactic scale.
I would have had no problem with DM, if MOND did not work so well at galactic scale.

The fact that MOND does not work as well at cluster or higher scales makes no difference. It is probably an indication that some form of DM exists on those scales. I don’t even think that MOND can be enhanced to form a theory. TeVeS is just a toy theory that shows how to build one, but I am pretty sure the encompassing physical theory will be discovered from a totally unexpected direction. The recent Verlinde’s theory of Entropic gravity looks interesting.

I liken MOND to an Empirical law. Any quantum theory of gravity needs to bring out MOND or it is not physical. Since GR in its present form does not predict MOND, it is not physical.

It is as simple as that. Empirical laws must be explained by all physical theories. If Newtons gravitational theory did not explain Kepler’s laws, it would be as useless (at the solar system scale) as GR is presently (at the galactic scale).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My problem with DM+GR is not that it does not fit the data.<br />
My problem is that the MOND fits the data without needing DM.<br />
Since this simple equation works very well at the galactic scale everywhere. The fits actually keep on improving with more data. There can only be two solutions.<br />
1) DM does not exist at Galactic scale.<br />
2) DM position in space is defined by BMs position in space. This is simply untenable if we believe DM to be separate particles. Also BM is not supposed to interact with DM except by gravitational force. This is totally non-sensible</p>
<p>So the real solution is that DM does not exist at the galactic scale.<br />
I would have had no problem with DM, if MOND did not work so well at galactic scale.</p>
<p>The fact that MOND does not work as well at cluster or higher scales makes no difference. It is probably an indication that some form of DM exists on those scales. I don’t even think that MOND can be enhanced to form a theory. TeVeS is just a toy theory that shows how to build one, but I am pretty sure the encompassing physical theory will be discovered from a totally unexpected direction. The recent Verlinde’s theory of Entropic gravity looks interesting.</p>
<p>I liken MOND to an Empirical law. Any quantum theory of gravity needs to bring out MOND or it is not physical. Since GR in its present form does not predict MOND, it is not physical.</p>
<p>It is as simple as that. Empirical laws must be explained by all physical theories. If Newtons gravitational theory did not explain Kepler’s laws, it would be as useless (at the solar system scale) as GR is presently (at the galactic scale).</p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/02/26/dark-matter-just-fine-thanks/#comment-67246</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Mar 2011 13:37:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=6267#comment-67246</guid>
		<description>@question mark: No, I disagree. The M/L ratio is a &quot;free&quot; parameter but its best-fit obtained in mond from dynamics alone is ususally amazingly similar to what one expects from completely independent models based on stellar populations synthesis (that have nothing to do with dynamics): this has been, and still is, one of the strongest arguments for mond! In addition, this free parameter goes away when fitting gassy galaxies, and that was precisely the point of the whole press release of Stacy. Then, there is the distance, which again can sometimes be a little discrepant when set completely free, but which usually gives very good fits when constrained to lie within the range of distances obtained from various independent methods. So, yes there are free parameters (M/L and distance, and in the case of Stacy, only distance), but you wouldnt call a good fit a fit using a crazy value for these parameters, that are in the end not so free anymore... The point is that mond yields brilliant fits in most spiral galaxies with completely reasonable values of those parameters. This is neither overselling nor underselling what mond does. And again whatever the reason for it, its success should be, in my opinion, understood.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@question mark: No, I disagree. The M/L ratio is a &#8220;free&#8221; parameter but its best-fit obtained in mond from dynamics alone is ususally amazingly similar to what one expects from completely independent models based on stellar populations synthesis (that have nothing to do with dynamics): this has been, and still is, one of the strongest arguments for mond! In addition, this free parameter goes away when fitting gassy galaxies, and that was precisely the point of the whole press release of Stacy. Then, there is the distance, which again can sometimes be a little discrepant when set completely free, but which usually gives very good fits when constrained to lie within the range of distances obtained from various independent methods. So, yes there are free parameters (M/L and distance, and in the case of Stacy, only distance), but you wouldnt call a good fit a fit using a crazy value for these parameters, that are in the end not so free anymore&#8230; The point is that mond yields brilliant fits in most spiral galaxies with completely reasonable values of those parameters. This is neither overselling nor underselling what mond does. And again whatever the reason for it, its success should be, in my opinion, understood.</p>
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		<title>By: Juan R. González-Álvarez</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/02/26/dark-matter-just-fine-thanks/#comment-67245</link>
		<dc:creator>Juan R. González-Álvarez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Mar 2011 12:29:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=6267#comment-67245</guid>
		<description>Above I wrote that in dark matter model you have three times more freedom and still cannot match MOND predictions. A beautiful example of this is discussed in

&lt;i&gt;Extended rotation curves of spiral galaxies - Dark haloes and modified dynamics. Mon. Not. R. astr. Soc. 1991: 249, 523-537. Begeman, K. G.; Broeils, A. H.; Sanders, R. H.&lt;/i&gt;

Authors compare &lt;b&gt;three-parameter&lt;/b&gt; dark-matter fits (M/L for the visible disk, plus two parameters for the dark matter halo: the core radius and the asymptotic circular velocity of the halo) with &lt;b&gt;one-parameter&lt;/b&gt; MOND fits (M/L for the visible disk).

They find that &lt;b&gt;MOND works well and &quot;in some cases better than multi-parameter dark-halo fits.&quot;&lt;/b&gt;

I am sorry to say this to dark-matter enthusiasts, but MOND rocks...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Above I wrote that in dark matter model you have three times more freedom and still cannot match MOND predictions. A beautiful example of this is discussed in</p>
<p><i>Extended rotation curves of spiral galaxies &#8211; Dark haloes and modified dynamics. Mon. Not. R. astr. Soc. 1991: 249, 523-537. Begeman, K. G.; Broeils, A. H.; Sanders, R. H.</i></p>
<p>Authors compare <b>three-parameter</b> dark-matter fits (M/L for the visible disk, plus two parameters for the dark matter halo: the core radius and the asymptotic circular velocity of the halo) with <b>one-parameter</b> MOND fits (M/L for the visible disk).</p>
<p>They find that <b>MOND works well and &#8220;in some cases better than multi-parameter dark-halo fits.&#8221;</b></p>
<p>I am sorry to say this to dark-matter enthusiasts, but MOND rocks&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Juan R. González-Álvarez</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/02/26/dark-matter-just-fine-thanks/#comment-67244</link>
		<dc:creator>Juan R. González-Álvarez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Mar 2011 10:46:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=6267#comment-67244</guid>
		<description>Albert, Ben, and Question Mark,

MOND has &lt;b&gt;zero&lt;/b&gt; parameters. It is the dark matter model which uses &quot;free parameters that can be chosen to improve any fit&quot; (as Question Mark says).

I invite you to read again the section 5.2 of Gentile et al.

http://arxiv.org/abs/1004.3421

&lt;b&gt;Two parameters for Burkert dark matter model&lt;/b&gt; (central density and core radius).

&lt;b&gt;One/two parameters for the ΛCDM model&lt;/b&gt; of Navarro, Frenk &amp; White (concentration and virial mass). Gentile et al. use cosmological simulations to correlate both (see eq. 3), but due to bad fit to the data they repeated the fit leaving both parameters free (read section 6) and still obtained a bad fit and related difficulties.

&lt;b&gt;Zero parameters for MOND&lt;/b&gt; (see equation 6).

Regarding http://arxiv.org/abs/1005.5456, the authors use M/L as a free parameter to correlate velocity with light distribution, &lt;b&gt;not&lt;/b&gt; because M/L was a free parameter in MOND. MOND are equations 1 and 2 in that preprint and they have &lt;b&gt;zero&lt;/b&gt; parameters.

If you were to repeat their analysis using dark matter models you would use one or two parameters (of the dark halo) &lt;b&gt;plus&lt;/b&gt; the M/L ratio of the correlation to light.

I.e. using the Burkert dark matter model you have &lt;b&gt;three times more freedom&lt;/b&gt; (rho_0, r_{core}, and M/L) and still cannot match MOND predictions.

Precisely, the fact that MOND has &lt;b&gt;zero&lt;/b&gt; parameters is the reason which is so sensitive to uncertainties in distances, whereas the dark matter models can absorb distance uncertainties into the halo parameters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Albert, Ben, and Question Mark,</p>
<p>MOND has <b>zero</b> parameters. It is the dark matter model which uses &#8220;free parameters that can be chosen to improve any fit&#8221; (as Question Mark says).</p>
<p>I invite you to read again the section 5.2 of Gentile et al.</p>
<p><a href="http://arxiv.org/abs/1004.3421" rel="nofollow">http://arxiv.org/abs/1004.3421</a></p>
<p><b>Two parameters for Burkert dark matter model</b> (central density and core radius).</p>
<p><b>One/two parameters for the ΛCDM model</b> of Navarro, Frenk &amp; White (concentration and virial mass). Gentile et al. use cosmological simulations to correlate both (see eq. 3), but due to bad fit to the data they repeated the fit leaving both parameters free (read section 6) and still obtained a bad fit and related difficulties.</p>
<p><b>Zero parameters for MOND</b> (see equation 6).</p>
<p>Regarding <a href="http://arxiv.org/abs/1005.5456" rel="nofollow">http://arxiv.org/abs/1005.5456</a>, the authors use M/L as a free parameter to correlate velocity with light distribution, <b>not</b> because M/L was a free parameter in MOND. MOND are equations 1 and 2 in that preprint and they have <b>zero</b> parameters.</p>
<p>If you were to repeat their analysis using dark matter models you would use one or two parameters (of the dark halo) <b>plus</b> the M/L ratio of the correlation to light.</p>
<p>I.e. using the Burkert dark matter model you have <b>three times more freedom</b> (rho_0, r_{core}, and M/L) and still cannot match MOND predictions.</p>
<p>Precisely, the fact that MOND has <b>zero</b> parameters is the reason which is so sensitive to uncertainties in distances, whereas the dark matter models can absorb distance uncertainties into the halo parameters.</p>
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