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	<title>Comments on: DNA Takes Square Roots</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/06/03/dna-takes-square-roots/</link>
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		<title>By: Eunoia</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/06/03/dna-takes-square-roots/#comment-69658</link>
		<dc:creator>Eunoia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jun 2011 17:31:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=6886#comment-69658</guid>
		<description>Actually, a simple chord on a circle, cut symmetrically by a diameter, will calculate square roots. See http://home.egge.net/~savory//maths9.htm

So who needs DNA to do that ?  ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, a simple chord on a circle, cut symmetrically by a diameter, will calculate square roots. See <a href="http://home.egge.net/~savory//maths9.htm" rel="nofollow">http://home.egge.net/~savory//maths9.htm</a></p>
<p>So who needs DNA to do that ?  <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Phillip Helbig</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/06/03/dna-takes-square-roots/#comment-69657</link>
		<dc:creator>Phillip Helbig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jun 2011 10:59:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=6886#comment-69657</guid>
		<description>&lt;I&gt;&quot;So the biologists aren’t real? What are they made of? Synthetic Biologists&quot;&lt;/I&gt;

Is it worse being a theoretical physicist?  (Perhaps it sounds better if one can claim to be a high-energy physicist.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;So the biologists aren’t real? What are they made of? Synthetic Biologists&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Is it worse being a theoretical physicist?  (Perhaps it sounds better if one can claim to be a high-energy physicist.)</p>
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		<title>By: Intelligence behind the nature? Scientists found that DNA can take square roots &#124; News-Worthy Information</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/06/03/dna-takes-square-roots/#comment-69656</link>
		<dc:creator>Intelligence behind the nature? Scientists found that DNA can take square roots &#124; News-Worthy Information</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jun 2011 08:48:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=6886#comment-69656</guid>
		<description>[...] Source: Discover Top Stories [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Source: Discover Top Stories [...] </p>
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		<title>By: Stephen</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/06/03/dna-takes-square-roots/#comment-69655</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jun 2011 17:05:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=6886#comment-69655</guid>
		<description>What is interesting isn&#039;t that they computed a square root.  What&#039;s interesting is that they demonstrated computing any arbitrary logic.

DNA has already been shown to have the ability to search for solutions to problems, and with reasonable performance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What is interesting isn&#8217;t that they computed a square root.  What&#8217;s interesting is that they demonstrated computing any arbitrary logic.</p>
<p>DNA has already been shown to have the ability to search for solutions to problems, and with reasonable performance.</p>
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		<title>By: AySz88</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/06/03/dna-takes-square-roots/#comment-69654</link>
		<dc:creator>AySz88</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jun 2011 15:50:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=6886#comment-69654</guid>
		<description>They aren&#039;t really taking a square root as much showing that they can implement an arbitrary binary function of 4-bit input and 2-bit output, almost as just a look-up table.  They did almost all the work for it - the actual machinery is not really as sophisticated as they made it sound.  What would be much more impressive is if it actually used the same (or better) algorithm that regular computers would use.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They aren&#8217;t really taking a square root as much showing that they can implement an arbitrary binary function of 4-bit input and 2-bit output, almost as just a look-up table.  They did almost all the work for it &#8211; the actual machinery is not really as sophisticated as they made it sound.  What would be much more impressive is if it actually used the same (or better) algorithm that regular computers would use.</p>
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		<title>By: Alan Kellogg</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/06/03/dna-takes-square-roots/#comment-69653</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Kellogg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jun 2011 01:20:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=6886#comment-69653</guid>
		<description>I think the basic problem starts with the assumption that computers need to use binary, instead of another core operating system. Remember that DNA has 4 letters, which can be use to create 26 ideograms used to concoct a virtually infinite number of paragraphs, incorporating different methods of construction etc.

By making DNA imitate a binary computer&#039;s method of operation we are limiting DNA and limiting our thinking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the basic problem starts with the assumption that computers need to use binary, instead of another core operating system. Remember that DNA has 4 letters, which can be use to create 26 ideograms used to concoct a virtually infinite number of paragraphs, incorporating different methods of construction etc.</p>
<p>By making DNA imitate a binary computer&#8217;s method of operation we are limiting DNA and limiting our thinking.</p>
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		<title>By: spyder</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/06/03/dna-takes-square-roots/#comment-69652</link>
		<dc:creator>spyder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jun 2011 01:20:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=6886#comment-69652</guid>
		<description>This seems to be DNA using DNA to arrange DNA to perform a calca.  A lot like a circus, only less fun.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This seems to be DNA using DNA to arrange DNA to perform a calca.  A lot like a circus, only less fun.</p>
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		<title>By: Sili</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/06/03/dna-takes-square-roots/#comment-69651</link>
		<dc:creator>Sili</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jun 2011 16:25:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=6886#comment-69651</guid>
		<description>The experiment sounds interesting, but the &quot;whimsy&quot; is downright annoying.

Yes, Youtube can be used for good, but this was not an example of. Too dull; didn&#039;t watch.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The experiment sounds interesting, but the &#8220;whimsy&#8221; is downright annoying.</p>
<p>Yes, Youtube can be used for good, but this was not an example of. Too dull; didn&#8217;t watch.</p>
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		<title>By: Anchor</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/06/03/dna-takes-square-roots/#comment-69650</link>
		<dc:creator>Anchor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jun 2011 15:55:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=6886#comment-69650</guid>
		<description>@ David #1 who says, &quot;The music is a bit overbearing but other than that it was good.&quot;

No, not just a &quot;bit overbearing&quot;. It&#039;s ALOT overbearing. This video is the mark of an enormous ego who found an opportunity to exhibit his or her imagined pianistic wherewithal. Unfortunately for the listener - whether trying to understand what the narrator is saying OR paying attention to the &#039;music&#039; - it is an insipid excuse of a composition that has no business whatsover being there - along with the fancy BOOK graphics. Absolutely unlistenable. &quot;Other than that&quot;? NO, it is NOT good. Its absolutely unlistenable. Utterly unwatchable.  Its horrible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ David #1 who says, &#8220;The music is a bit overbearing but other than that it was good.&#8221;</p>
<p>No, not just a &#8220;bit overbearing&#8221;. It&#8217;s ALOT overbearing. This video is the mark of an enormous ego who found an opportunity to exhibit his or her imagined pianistic wherewithal. Unfortunately for the listener &#8211; whether trying to understand what the narrator is saying OR paying attention to the &#8216;music&#8217; &#8211; it is an insipid excuse of a composition that has no business whatsover being there &#8211; along with the fancy BOOK graphics. Absolutely unlistenable. &#8220;Other than that&#8221;? NO, it is NOT good. Its absolutely unlistenable. Utterly unwatchable.  Its horrible.</p>
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		<title>By: Anchor</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/06/03/dna-takes-square-roots/#comment-69649</link>
		<dc:creator>Anchor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jun 2011 15:17:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=6886#comment-69649</guid>
		<description>At the ~56 second mark the video dramatically declares (in elegantly ornate font), &quot;Maybe one day synthetic molecular systems will be robust enough to scale up to complexities comparable to life itself...&quot;

Followed by the narrator&#039;s compelling  voice-over, &quot;Once upon a time there was a magic book&quot;...with a graphic showing a book entitled, &quot;The Computational Power of DNA Molecules&quot;

Oh, wow. Holy friggin&#039; cow. EGAD.

See, that&#039;s what bothers me. Pardon me for expressing my annoyance at such pathetic declarations (besides the incredibly foul solicitation of the woo contingent in the target audience) but I will just point out here in this ostensibly physics-oriented forum that there is NOTHING &#039;synthetic&#039; under the sun of physics.

Not when genetic molecules have been doing their thing in splendid fashion without any &#039;conscious&#039; (there&#039;s another ridiculous concept) guidance for several billions of years. And not when upstart engineers pretend (as the handsomely-produced video emminently implies) to have developed something profound out of coaxing DNA molecules into achieving a desired computation.

The chronic technologist conceit (wherein we have, for example, historically and quite frequently bragged about &#039;conquering&#039; nature, as if we have discovered some means of circumventing the laws of physics rather than opportunistically utilizing them) is as if that mindset regards nature as an opponent to defeat or circumvent nature rather then treat &#039;her&#039; as an ally to cooperate with: according to the inventor spiel, if ANY human contraption works at all, it MUST be because they have found a way to flout natural laws, the better to lard their claim with the appearance of ingenuity. It is rarely pointed out that the laws of nature permit their contraptions to operate in  the first place. Without those laws, they could not even enjoy their contraptions.

There can not be anything remotely &#039;synthetic&#039; about it. The very use of the word automatically constitutes a lie.

As &#039;applied science&#039; technologists, we are all plagiarizers: we pretend to &#039;create&#039; circumstances that are somehow &#039;unnatural&#039; or our efforts somehow render the laws of nature impotent, and we frequently brag about it as a matter of habit. How many times have we read about how we have &#039;conquered&#039; everything from disease to space? Yet the truth is that ANYTHING we come up with to meet a challenge posed by nature must ultimately defer to the laws of nature. We are nowhere near clever enough to generate our own set of laws which can somehow replace those which nature already provides.

MAYBE one day synthetic molecular technologists (and technologists and explorers in general) will be ethically &quot;robust enough&quot; to scale up to something comparable to honesty and an admission of humility befitting their inescapable deference to the laws of nature, no matter how cute their contraptions are.

I suppose now that a great noise might arise over a proper definition of the terms &quot;synthetic&quot; or &quot;artificial&quot;, in an effort to clarify such terms we are used to. Might as well throw in that dilapidated strain of concepts like &#039;consciousness&#039; or &#039;sentience&#039; or &#039;spirit&#039; or &#039;soul&#039; while we&#039;re at it. Defining such is a fool&#039;s errand. Save your breaths. False concepts don&#039;t require definitional refinement. If anybody thinks they have found any that are at once CONSISTENT WITH as well as INDEPENDENT OF nature, a refutation of the necessity for any such particular definitions is immediately available.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At the ~56 second mark the video dramatically declares (in elegantly ornate font), &#8220;Maybe one day synthetic molecular systems will be robust enough to scale up to complexities comparable to life itself&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>Followed by the narrator&#8217;s compelling  voice-over, &#8220;Once upon a time there was a magic book&#8221;&#8230;with a graphic showing a book entitled, &#8220;The Computational Power of DNA Molecules&#8221;</p>
<p>Oh, wow. Holy friggin&#8217; cow. EGAD.</p>
<p>See, that&#8217;s what bothers me. Pardon me for expressing my annoyance at such pathetic declarations (besides the incredibly foul solicitation of the woo contingent in the target audience) but I will just point out here in this ostensibly physics-oriented forum that there is NOTHING &#8216;synthetic&#8217; under the sun of physics.</p>
<p>Not when genetic molecules have been doing their thing in splendid fashion without any &#8216;conscious&#8217; (there&#8217;s another ridiculous concept) guidance for several billions of years. And not when upstart engineers pretend (as the handsomely-produced video emminently implies) to have developed something profound out of coaxing DNA molecules into achieving a desired computation.</p>
<p>The chronic technologist conceit (wherein we have, for example, historically and quite frequently bragged about &#8216;conquering&#8217; nature, as if we have discovered some means of circumventing the laws of physics rather than opportunistically utilizing them) is as if that mindset regards nature as an opponent to defeat or circumvent nature rather then treat &#8216;her&#8217; as an ally to cooperate with: according to the inventor spiel, if ANY human contraption works at all, it MUST be because they have found a way to flout natural laws, the better to lard their claim with the appearance of ingenuity. It is rarely pointed out that the laws of nature permit their contraptions to operate in  the first place. Without those laws, they could not even enjoy their contraptions.</p>
<p>There can not be anything remotely &#8216;synthetic&#8217; about it. The very use of the word automatically constitutes a lie.</p>
<p>As &#8216;applied science&#8217; technologists, we are all plagiarizers: we pretend to &#8216;create&#8217; circumstances that are somehow &#8216;unnatural&#8217; or our efforts somehow render the laws of nature impotent, and we frequently brag about it as a matter of habit. How many times have we read about how we have &#8216;conquered&#8217; everything from disease to space? Yet the truth is that ANYTHING we come up with to meet a challenge posed by nature must ultimately defer to the laws of nature. We are nowhere near clever enough to generate our own set of laws which can somehow replace those which nature already provides.</p>
<p>MAYBE one day synthetic molecular technologists (and technologists and explorers in general) will be ethically &#8220;robust enough&#8221; to scale up to something comparable to honesty and an admission of humility befitting their inescapable deference to the laws of nature, no matter how cute their contraptions are.</p>
<p>I suppose now that a great noise might arise over a proper definition of the terms &#8220;synthetic&#8221; or &#8220;artificial&#8221;, in an effort to clarify such terms we are used to. Might as well throw in that dilapidated strain of concepts like &#8216;consciousness&#8217; or &#8216;sentience&#8217; or &#8216;spirit&#8217; or &#8216;soul&#8217; while we&#8217;re at it. Defining such is a fool&#8217;s errand. Save your breaths. False concepts don&#8217;t require definitional refinement. If anybody thinks they have found any that are at once CONSISTENT WITH as well as INDEPENDENT OF nature, a refutation of the necessity for any such particular definitions is immediately available.</p>
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