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	<title>Comments on: Why We Need the Higgs, or Something Like It</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/06/14/why-we-need-the-higgs-or-something-like-it/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/06/14/why-we-need-the-higgs-or-something-like-it/</link>
	<description>Random samplings from a universe of ideas.</description>
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		<title>By: Chris R</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/06/14/why-we-need-the-higgs-or-something-like-it/comment-page-1/#comment-165888</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris R</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jul 2011 09:00:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=6908#comment-165888</guid>
		<description>I thought I remember hearing that Nima was talking about some new ideas in which unitarity isn&#039;t necessarily given.  Did I mishear or misinterpret?  Or could you explain?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought I remember hearing that Nima was talking about some new ideas in which unitarity isn&#8217;t necessarily given.  Did I mishear or misinterpret?  Or could you explain?</p>
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		<title>By: Lila Sovietskaya</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/06/14/why-we-need-the-higgs-or-something-like-it/comment-page-1/#comment-165509</link>
		<dc:creator>Lila Sovietskaya</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jun 2011 18:32:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=6908#comment-165509</guid>
		<description>What if the Higgs boson is not found? This would mean that some fundamental assumptions were wrong and mass exists for some other reasons. How do the Higgs Field and the String theory dance together (how do you see the Higgs Field from the String Theory perspective).  Other theme: Temperature cannot be infinite. New question: Could a Higgs anti-boson exist? How? Why? What would it mean. Mathematical delirium: Negative and imaginary space can exist on paper. But could it be real? Would the Higgs Boson hide there?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What if the Higgs boson is not found? This would mean that some fundamental assumptions were wrong and mass exists for some other reasons. How do the Higgs Field and the String theory dance together (how do you see the Higgs Field from the String Theory perspective).  Other theme: Temperature cannot be infinite. New question: Could a Higgs anti-boson exist? How? Why? What would it mean. Mathematical delirium: Negative and imaginary space can exist on paper. But could it be real? Would the Higgs Boson hide there?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Nachrichten aus der Teilchenphysik kompakt &#171; Skyweek Zwei Punkt Null</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/06/14/why-we-need-the-higgs-or-something-like-it/comment-page-1/#comment-165168</link>
		<dc:creator>Nachrichten aus der Teilchenphysik kompakt &#171; Skyweek Zwei Punkt Null</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Jun 2011 20:41:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=6908#comment-165168</guid>
		<description>[...] Scientist, Ars Technica, BBC 10., Not even Wrong 8., Resonaances 6., Science 2.0 31.5.2011. Auch Cosmic Variance 14.6.2011 über die Notwendigkeit des Higgs und Back Reaction 11.6.2011 über die bisherige [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Scientist, Ars Technica, BBC 10., Not even Wrong 8., Resonaances 6., Science 2.0 31.5.2011. Auch Cosmic Variance 14.6.2011 über die Notwendigkeit des Higgs und Back Reaction 11.6.2011 über die bisherige [...]</p>
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		<title>By: george briggs</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/06/14/why-we-need-the-higgs-or-something-like-it/comment-page-1/#comment-165148</link>
		<dc:creator>george briggs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Jun 2011 16:53:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=6908#comment-165148</guid>
		<description>brian too is partly correct we dont need a higgs alone but we do need a boson entity to go along with a fermion entity of equal mass (ordinary matter) to obtain a fermibosonic precursor, E8 symmetry, of zero mass this comes in to our universe from the previous universe (see roger penrose&#039;s latest book)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>brian too is partly correct we dont need a higgs alone but we do need a boson entity to go along with a fermion entity of equal mass (ordinary matter) to obtain a fermibosonic precursor, E8 symmetry, of zero mass this comes in to our universe from the previous universe (see roger penrose&#8217;s latest book)</p>
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		<title>By: TimG</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/06/14/why-we-need-the-higgs-or-something-like-it/comment-page-1/#comment-165082</link>
		<dc:creator>TimG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jun 2011 11:01:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=6908#comment-165082</guid>
		<description>@jpd, I think that&#039;s talking about using them in an intermediate step in a calculation.  Like how in quantum mechanics calculations involve complex numbers, but when you calculate the value of some observable you still must end up with a real number.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@jpd, I think that&#8217;s talking about using them in an intermediate step in a calculation.  Like how in quantum mechanics calculations involve complex numbers, but when you calculate the value of some observable you still must end up with a real number.</p>
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		<title>By: jpd</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/06/14/why-we-need-the-higgs-or-something-like-it/comment-page-1/#comment-165051</link>
		<dc:creator>jpd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jun 2011 20:58:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=6908#comment-165051</guid>
		<description>you can have negative probabilites
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_probability

and according to that article Feynman was open to larger than one probabilities</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>you can have negative probabilites<br />
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_probability" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_probability</a></p>
<p>and according to that article Feynman was open to larger than one probabilities</p>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/06/14/why-we-need-the-higgs-or-something-like-it/comment-page-1/#comment-165050</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jun 2011 19:50:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=6908#comment-165050</guid>
		<description>Does SUSY really solve the Higgs problems it&#039;s meant to if it does so at the cost of introducing the \mu problem?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does SUSY really solve the Higgs problems it&#8217;s meant to if it does so at the cost of introducing the \mu problem?</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas Larsson</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/06/14/why-we-need-the-higgs-or-something-like-it/comment-page-1/#comment-165034</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas Larsson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jun 2011 15:56:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=6908#comment-165034</guid>
		<description>&quot;It’s the closest we have to a “no-lose” theorem in physics — either the Higgs boson will be there, or something more exciting. &quot;

Or an axiom of the no-lose theorem is wrong. Which may count as more exciting, of course.

&quot;The experiments will have the final say, as they tend to do. &quot;

Exactly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;It’s the closest we have to a “no-lose” theorem in physics — either the Higgs boson will be there, or something more exciting. &#8221;</p>
<p>Or an axiom of the no-lose theorem is wrong. Which may count as more exciting, of course.</p>
<p>&#8220;The experiments will have the final say, as they tend to do. &#8221;</p>
<p>Exactly.</p>
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		<title>By: Low Math, Meekly Interacting</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/06/14/why-we-need-the-higgs-or-something-like-it/comment-page-1/#comment-165025</link>
		<dc:creator>Low Math, Meekly Interacting</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jun 2011 13:02:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=6908#comment-165025</guid>
		<description>OK, thanks.  So, when we talk about &quot;quartic couplings&quot; are we referring primarily to self-interactions, or all interactions involving loops?  I&#039;m just not sure exactly what that term is referring to (or even if this is explainable without delving deep into the maths of quantum field theory).  I assume references to the quadratic terms are simply due to the fact that this Higgs quartic coupling is on the order of m^2/v^2, and no more mysterious than powers of 2.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, thanks.  So, when we talk about &#8220;quartic couplings&#8221; are we referring primarily to self-interactions, or all interactions involving loops?  I&#8217;m just not sure exactly what that term is referring to (or even if this is explainable without delving deep into the maths of quantum field theory).  I assume references to the quadratic terms are simply due to the fact that this Higgs quartic coupling is on the order of m^2/v^2, and no more mysterious than powers of 2.</p>
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		<title>By: IW</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/06/14/why-we-need-the-higgs-or-something-like-it/comment-page-1/#comment-165023</link>
		<dc:creator>IW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jun 2011 11:10:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=6908#comment-165023</guid>
		<description>The problem here is with the terminology.  Higgs Boson?  No.  It&#039;s too cold; it&#039;s not photon-genic; it&#039;s too statistic-quo!  I think it needs to be renamed the Higgs bosom - something to which we can all let our inner child cozy up.  Physicists, Higgs thyself!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem here is with the terminology.  Higgs Boson?  No.  It&#8217;s too cold; it&#8217;s not photon-genic; it&#8217;s too statistic-quo!  I think it needs to be renamed the Higgs bosom &#8211; something to which we can all let our inner child cozy up.  Physicists, Higgs thyself!</p>
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		<title>By: Subir</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/06/14/why-we-need-the-higgs-or-something-like-it/comment-page-1/#comment-165012</link>
		<dc:creator>Subir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jun 2011 09:17:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=6908#comment-165012</guid>
		<description>Dear Sean,

Nice article! I have two questions. 
1. Can Higgs really serve as inflation field?? 
2. At finite temperature will the behavior of Higgs change??

Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Sean,</p>
<p>Nice article! I have two questions.<br />
1. Can Higgs really serve as inflation field??<br />
2. At finite temperature will the behavior of Higgs change??</p>
<p>Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: Shantanu</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/06/14/why-we-need-the-higgs-or-something-like-it/comment-page-1/#comment-165007</link>
		<dc:creator>Shantanu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jun 2011 06:05:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=6908#comment-165007</guid>
		<description>Great post Sean. This maybe a bit OT but since this wonderful article by David Kaiser
on connections between Higgs fields and Brans-Dicke field and how both ideas were born
almost simulataneosly but without people knowing of each other&#039;s work

http://web.mit.edu/dikaiser/www/Kaiser.WhoseMass.pdf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post Sean. This maybe a bit OT but since this wonderful article by David Kaiser<br />
on connections between Higgs fields and Brans-Dicke field and how both ideas were born<br />
almost simulataneosly but without people knowing of each other&#8217;s work</p>
<p><a href="http://web.mit.edu/dikaiser/www/Kaiser.WhoseMass.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://web.mit.edu/dikaiser/www/Kaiser.WhoseMass.pdf</a></p>
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		<title>By: max</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/06/14/why-we-need-the-higgs-or-something-like-it/comment-page-1/#comment-165005</link>
		<dc:creator>max</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jun 2011 03:52:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=6908#comment-165005</guid>
		<description>Thanks Sean and kiwidamien! Looks like I&#039;ve got some homework to do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Sean and kiwidamien! Looks like I&#8217;ve got some homework to do.</p>
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		<title>By: David George</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/06/14/why-we-need-the-higgs-or-something-like-it/comment-page-1/#comment-164994</link>
		<dc:creator>David George</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jun 2011 00:04:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=6908#comment-164994</guid>
		<description>#21 Brian Too -- 

Speak for yourself, paleface! Maybe most people don&#039;t need no &quot;stinking Higgs&quot;, but there are some nice people constituting the particle physics priesthood who really need it. They are the closest the media establishment can come to ordaining science in place of religion to &quot;explain&quot; (haha!) the universe. The masters of the world will look pretty stupid (or even more stupid) if all the Nova programs, Time magazine covers and all imitations are discovered to be erroneous, while the illiterate telepreachers blame gay atheistic eggheads for tinkering with God&#039;s handiwork.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#21 Brian Too &#8212; </p>
<p>Speak for yourself, paleface! Maybe most people don&#8217;t need no &#8220;stinking Higgs&#8221;, but there are some nice people constituting the particle physics priesthood who really need it. They are the closest the media establishment can come to ordaining science in place of religion to &#8220;explain&#8221; (haha!) the universe. The masters of the world will look pretty stupid (or even more stupid) if all the Nova programs, Time magazine covers and all imitations are discovered to be erroneous, while the illiterate telepreachers blame gay atheistic eggheads for tinkering with God&#8217;s handiwork.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Too</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/06/14/why-we-need-the-higgs-or-something-like-it/comment-page-1/#comment-164987</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Too</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2011 23:22:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=6908#comment-164987</guid>
		<description>We don&#039; need no steenking Heeeggs!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We don&#8217; need no steenking Heeeggs!!</p>
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		<title>By: Sean</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/06/14/why-we-need-the-higgs-or-something-like-it/comment-page-1/#comment-164985</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2011 22:11:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=6908#comment-164985</guid>
		<description>Anonymous (#15)--  &quot;Probability greater than 1&quot; doesn&#039;t mean that there is more than one interaction -- it means that some kind of interaction happens more than 100% of the time.  That&#039;s just not possible.

LMMI--  No question that the Higgs introduces other problems, especially with fine-tuning. Supersymmetry and other approaches aim to solve those problems.  But the breakdown of unitarity isn&#039;t just an annoyance; it&#039;s a serious flaw that simply has to be addressed somehow.  It might be the Higgs, or something else.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anonymous (#15)&#8211;  &#8220;Probability greater than 1&#8243; doesn&#8217;t mean that there is more than one interaction &#8212; it means that some kind of interaction happens more than 100% of the time.  That&#8217;s just not possible.</p>
<p>LMMI&#8211;  No question that the Higgs introduces other problems, especially with fine-tuning. Supersymmetry and other approaches aim to solve those problems.  But the breakdown of unitarity isn&#8217;t just an annoyance; it&#8217;s a serious flaw that simply has to be addressed somehow.  It might be the Higgs, or something else.</p>
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		<title>By: kiwidamien</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/06/14/why-we-need-the-higgs-or-something-like-it/comment-page-1/#comment-164980</link>
		<dc:creator>kiwidamien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2011 20:59:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=6908#comment-164980</guid>
		<description>For a graduate student that wants to see how unitarity requires the Higgs, a good reference is
http://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Electroweak-Unification-Standard-Unitarity/dp/9810218575

Note that this is only &quot;tree-level&quot; unitarity, meaning that if you only look at the lowest order diagrams (the trees) that unitarity is not preserved. The loophole is that higher order diagrams may restore unitarity. As the energies get higher, this requires higher order diagrams to become more important than low order diagrams, a sign that your perturbation theory is not worth much anymore in the fields you have chosen to expand it. The same thing happens at really low energies with QCD: it becomes perturbatively non-unitary and the best perturbative description we have is in terms of hadrons.

You can still argue that quarks are gluons are not irrelevant at low-energies. Lattice QCD does provide a way of doing some calculations in the non-perturbative regime. As far as I am aware, this is still a viable &quot;out&quot; from the Higgs theorem. We may not see anything &quot;new&quot;, but interesting strong dynamics.  

By &quot;new&quot; I am referring to new fundamental fields. In much the same way that we don&#039;t consider the proton to be a &quot;new field&quot; at low energies, but a bound state of some messy QCD stuff. In terms of doing computations at these energies, it is certainly convenient to treat the proton as a new field and thus restore perturbative unitarity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For a graduate student that wants to see how unitarity requires the Higgs, a good reference is<br />
<a href="http://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Electroweak-Unification-Standard-Unitarity/dp/9810218575" rel="nofollow">http://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Electroweak-Unification-Standard-Unitarity/dp/9810218575</a></p>
<p>Note that this is only &#8220;tree-level&#8221; unitarity, meaning that if you only look at the lowest order diagrams (the trees) that unitarity is not preserved. The loophole is that higher order diagrams may restore unitarity. As the energies get higher, this requires higher order diagrams to become more important than low order diagrams, a sign that your perturbation theory is not worth much anymore in the fields you have chosen to expand it. The same thing happens at really low energies with QCD: it becomes perturbatively non-unitary and the best perturbative description we have is in terms of hadrons.</p>
<p>You can still argue that quarks are gluons are not irrelevant at low-energies. Lattice QCD does provide a way of doing some calculations in the non-perturbative regime. As far as I am aware, this is still a viable &#8220;out&#8221; from the Higgs theorem. We may not see anything &#8220;new&#8221;, but interesting strong dynamics.  </p>
<p>By &#8220;new&#8221; I am referring to new fundamental fields. In much the same way that we don&#8217;t consider the proton to be a &#8220;new field&#8221; at low energies, but a bound state of some messy QCD stuff. In terms of doing computations at these energies, it is certainly convenient to treat the proton as a new field and thus restore perturbative unitarity.</p>
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		<title>By: Low Math, Meekly Interacting</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/06/14/why-we-need-the-higgs-or-something-like-it/comment-page-1/#comment-164956</link>
		<dc:creator>Low Math, Meekly Interacting</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2011 16:23:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=6908#comment-164956</guid>
		<description>My understanding is that while the SM Higgs has all these wonderful properties, it introduces new problems of its own, i.e. keeping the Higgs mass big enough to have evaded observation so far, but not absurdly big, requires considerable fine tuning, and maybe SUSY (or something) comes to the rescue.  Even with this liability, other current ideas about EW symmetry breaking are themselves plagued with difficulties at least as bad.

I try my best to understand the pros and cons of the above, but tend to get stuck on the basics (I&#039;m not sure I understand the strict meaning of &quot;quartic coupling&quot; sufficiently, nor why the nature of these couplings naturally seems to make the Higgs mass blow up unless exquisite radiative corrections or other mechanisms fix the problem).

If it&#039;s not an imposition on the author or his readership, any help?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My understanding is that while the SM Higgs has all these wonderful properties, it introduces new problems of its own, i.e. keeping the Higgs mass big enough to have evaded observation so far, but not absurdly big, requires considerable fine tuning, and maybe SUSY (or something) comes to the rescue.  Even with this liability, other current ideas about EW symmetry breaking are themselves plagued with difficulties at least as bad.</p>
<p>I try my best to understand the pros and cons of the above, but tend to get stuck on the basics (I&#8217;m not sure I understand the strict meaning of &#8220;quartic coupling&#8221; sufficiently, nor why the nature of these couplings naturally seems to make the Higgs mass blow up unless exquisite radiative corrections or other mechanisms fix the problem).</p>
<p>If it&#8217;s not an imposition on the author or his readership, any help?</p>
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		<title>By: Sean</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/06/14/why-we-need-the-higgs-or-something-like-it/comment-page-1/#comment-164954</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2011 15:18:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=6908#comment-164954</guid>
		<description>max--  I don&#039;t know of any particularly good review, and I&#039;m away from my books right now.  You can find the relevant Feynman diagrams in this talk:

http://lhc.fuw.edu.pl/kalinWW.pdf

From there it&#039;s just a matter of calculation...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>max&#8211;  I don&#8217;t know of any particularly good review, and I&#8217;m away from my books right now.  You can find the relevant Feynman diagrams in this talk:</p>
<p><a href="http://lhc.fuw.edu.pl/kalinWW.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://lhc.fuw.edu.pl/kalinWW.pdf</a></p>
<p>From there it&#8217;s just a matter of calculation&#8230;</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Lab Lemming</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/06/14/why-we-need-the-higgs-or-something-like-it/comment-page-1/#comment-164948</link>
		<dc:creator>Lab Lemming</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2011 11:45:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=6908#comment-164948</guid>
		<description>Re: 9-13:
Radioactivity is irrelevant to why Kelvin&#039;s geochronology was off by two orders of magnitude.  

It was his assumption that the earth did not convect that was his main mistake (convection drastically elevates the effective thermal conductivity).  John Perry pointed this out in the 1890&#039;s in a number of nature papers, but ignored for 60 years until evidence of mantle convection became indisputable.
See:
http://www.geosociety.org/gsatoday/archive/17/1/pdf/i1052-5173-17-1-4.pdf
for a modern review,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Perry_(engineer)
for background on Perry,
or
Nature 51, 341-342 (7 February 1895)
and
Nature 51, 582-585 (18 April 1895)
For the original articles

Modern estimates put radioactive decay at about 20-40% of the current oceanic crustal heat flow, with the rest being primordial heat.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: 9-13:<br />
Radioactivity is irrelevant to why Kelvin&#8217;s geochronology was off by two orders of magnitude.  </p>
<p>It was his assumption that the earth did not convect that was his main mistake (convection drastically elevates the effective thermal conductivity).  John Perry pointed this out in the 1890&#8242;s in a number of nature papers, but ignored for 60 years until evidence of mantle convection became indisputable.<br />
See:<br />
<a href="http://www.geosociety.org/gsatoday/archive/17/1/pdf/i1052-5173-17-1-4.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.geosociety.org/gsatoday/archive/17/1/pdf/i1052-5173-17-1-4.pdf</a><br />
for a modern review,<br />
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Perry_(engineer)" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Perry_(engineer)</a><br />
for background on Perry,<br />
or<br />
Nature 51, 341-342 (7 February 1895)<br />
and<br />
Nature 51, 582-585 (18 April 1895)<br />
For the original articles</p>
<p>Modern estimates put radioactive decay at about 20-40% of the current oceanic crustal heat flow, with the rest being primordial heat.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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