Comments on: I Get Email http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/07/02/i-get-email/ Random samplings from a universe of ideas. Fri, 25 May 2012 14:35:45 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Eric Habegger http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/07/02/i-get-email/comment-page-1/#comment-166583 Eric Habegger Fri, 08 Jul 2011 20:34:07 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=7012#comment-166583 Let me add one more thing. I think it was ok for Sean to be offended by Robert's rudeness. I would have been too. But in retrospect it seems there was no proportionality between Robert's rudeness and Sean putting his email out on Cosmic Variance. It was the disproportionality and lynch mob response that it engendered in many comments that were pretty bad. In fact, that turned out being much more offensive and ugly than Robert's original rudeness. Everyone is allowed to be human and get pissed once in a while but it usually is the disproportionality in response to the original insult that cause problems. In fact I would say that disproportionality of response in conflicts is the cause of much of the worlds problems. I think that should be common sense for everyone but it does not seem to be the case among much of the population. Let me add one more thing. I think it was ok for Sean to be offended by Robert’s rudeness. I would have been too. But in retrospect it seems there was no proportionality between Robert’s rudeness and Sean putting his email out on Cosmic Variance. It was the disproportionality and lynch mob response that it engendered in many comments that were pretty bad. In fact, that turned out being much more offensive and ugly than Robert’s original rudeness. Everyone is allowed to be human and get pissed once in a while but it usually is the disproportionality in response to the original insult that cause problems. In fact I would say that disproportionality of response in conflicts is the cause of much of the worlds problems. I think that should be common sense for everyone but it does not seem to be the case among much of the population.

]]> By: Eric Habegger http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/07/02/i-get-email/comment-page-1/#comment-166565 Eric Habegger Fri, 08 Jul 2011 17:24:21 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=7012#comment-166565 NBWAW, there are occasions when there is merit in large groups of people seriously discussing an individual taking a wrong turn. That occasion occurs when the individual being discussed either has 1. Created serious harm, or 2. Has the power or influence to create great harm. Power and prestige is the dividing line on how much attention these situations should get. The emailer had neither of these things going for him. If you can't see that this post and it's reactions are just about you and yours just feeling better about yourselves then I feel sorry for you. And yes, I do look down on you for not seeing that. But I'm not surprised it would come would from someone elevating Bugs Bunny to an object of prurient interest. NBWAW, there are occasions when there is merit in large groups of people seriously discussing an individual taking a wrong turn. That occasion occurs when the individual being discussed either has 1. Created serious harm, or
2. Has the power or influence to create great harm.

Power and prestige is the dividing line on how much attention these situations should get. The emailer had neither of these things going for him. If you can’t see that this post and it’s reactions are just about you and yours just feeling better about yourselves then I feel sorry for you. And yes, I do look down on you for not seeing that. But I’m not surprised it would come would from someone elevating Bugs Bunny to an object of prurient interest.

]]> By: Naked Bunny with a Whip http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/07/02/i-get-email/comment-page-1/#comment-166484 Naked Bunny with a Whip Thu, 07 Jul 2011 20:09:36 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=7012#comment-166484 @psmith: Announcing that Robert has a "diminished cognitive state" based on a single short email sure makes you a better, more modest person than those who are merely mocking his arrogance. You and Eric H. should combine your obvious interest in making condescending proclamations about what others are thinking while using plenty of imagery that involves people rubbing their bodies together. Hawt! @psmith: Announcing that Robert has a “diminished cognitive state” based on a single short email sure makes you a better, more modest person than those who are merely mocking his arrogance. You and Eric H. should combine your obvious interest in making condescending proclamations about what others are thinking while using plenty of imagery that involves people rubbing their bodies together. Hawt!

]]> By: Mr. G http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/07/02/i-get-email/comment-page-1/#comment-166430 Mr. G Thu, 07 Jul 2011 05:47:56 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=7012#comment-166430 [quote]Few things warm the heart of a scientist more readily than a query from a young, curious mind, eager to learn about our universe. Why, just now I received this inquiring email:[/quote] Few things warm the heart of a wayward student of complex reality than a teacher who would rather hold you up to public derision than engage you in an informative way. Likes neutrons shining no light, or something. [quote]Few things warm the heart of a scientist more readily than a query from a young, curious mind, eager to learn about our universe. Why, just now I received this inquiring email:[/quote]
Few things warm the heart of a wayward student of complex reality than a teacher who would rather hold you up to public derision than engage you in an informative way.

Likes neutrons shining no light, or something.

]]> By: psmith http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/07/02/i-get-email/comment-page-1/#comment-166256 psmith Wed, 06 Jul 2011 12:40:49 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=7012#comment-166256 What was the point of this posting? We routinely meet challenged people. Why elevate this to a blog posting? They deserve sorrow for their diminished cognitive state, not an orgy of self-congratulatory superiority. What was the point of this posting? We routinely meet challenged people. Why elevate this to a blog posting? They deserve sorrow for their diminished cognitive state, not an orgy of self-congratulatory superiority.

]]> By: Aaron http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/07/02/i-get-email/comment-page-1/#comment-166254 Aaron Wed, 06 Jul 2011 12:32:03 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=7012#comment-166254 Would you be interested in listening to a few questions on EM characteristics of spherical ferrous liquids? via e-mail of course ;) or anyone for that matter... quantumstrides@hotmail.com Would you be interested in listening to a few questions on EM characteristics of spherical ferrous liquids?

via e-mail of course ;)

or anyone for that matter…

quantumstrides@hotmail.com

]]> By: Anchor http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/07/02/i-get-email/comment-page-1/#comment-166223 Anchor Wed, 06 Jul 2011 09:24:48 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=7012#comment-166223 Tevong says, "Is it any wonder the average person thinks science is just another belief system when it’s presented as such, or that people like the emailer aren’t aware of how much work goes into falsifying theories?" I'm confused: are you appending the object of this concern to the glut of crackpots or to honest but oft timid scientists who refrain from engaging the public in a way that fights crackpottery? Maybe I'm completely missing the target. BTW, that was an excellently crisp explanation answering Benjamin's question. Bravo! Beautiful and succinct. Wish more of same to help thwart the tendency of the average person to think science is 'just another belief system'. Tevong says, “Is it any wonder the average person thinks science is just another belief system when it’s presented as such, or that people like the emailer aren’t aware of how much work goes into falsifying theories?”

I’m confused: are you appending the object of this concern to the glut of crackpots or to honest but oft timid scientists who refrain from engaging the public in a way that fights crackpottery? Maybe I’m completely missing the target.

BTW, that was an excellently crisp explanation answering Benjamin’s question. Bravo! Beautiful and succinct. Wish more of same to help thwart the tendency of the average person to think science is ‘just another belief system’.

]]> By: Tevong http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/07/02/i-get-email/comment-page-1/#comment-166211 Tevong Wed, 06 Jul 2011 08:30:42 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=7012#comment-166211 @52. Benjamin: bound neutrons are stable. For free neutrons it is energetically more favourable for them to beta decay into a proton, electron and neutrino, but in a bound state the negative binding energy means the total energy of the system is lower than the total energy after beta decay. For example the mass energy of a deuteron (neutron + proton) is lower than the combined mass energy of two protons, an electron and a neutrino, so the deuteron is stable. On the other hand the free neutron's mass is greater than that of the combined proton, electron and neutrino, making decay energetically favourable @Sean: the original email is actually a good question, if only he wasn't such a rude crackpot. Too many popular expositions start with "scientists believe that..." without actually explaining the process that leads to such conclusions. Is it any wonder the average person thinks science is just another belief system when it's presented as such, or that people like the emailer aren't aware of how much work goes into falsifying theories? @52. Benjamin: bound neutrons are stable. For free neutrons it is energetically more favourable for them to beta decay into a proton, electron and neutrino, but in a bound state the negative binding energy means the total energy of the system is lower than the total energy after beta decay. For example the mass energy of a deuteron (neutron + proton) is lower than the combined mass energy of two protons, an electron and a neutrino, so the deuteron is stable. On the other hand the free neutron’s mass is greater than that of the combined proton, electron and neutrino, making decay energetically favourable

@Sean: the original email is actually a good question, if only he wasn’t such a rude crackpot. Too many popular expositions start with “scientists believe that…” without actually explaining the process that leads to such conclusions. Is it any wonder the average person thinks science is just another belief system when it’s presented as such, or that people like the emailer aren’t aware of how much work goes into falsifying theories?

]]> By: Benjamin http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/07/02/i-get-email/comment-page-1/#comment-166110 Benjamin Tue, 05 Jul 2011 21:49:51 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=7012#comment-166110 If free neutrons only have a half life of 15 minutes, why is it that neutron stars don't evaporate? Is it because they're really made of false neutrons (ie protons and electrons combined) or is it because they're considered to be inside a giant nucleus? If free neutrons only have a half life of 15 minutes, why is it that neutron stars don’t evaporate?
Is it because they’re really made of false neutrons (ie protons and electrons combined) or is it because they’re considered to be inside a giant nucleus?

]]> By: Eric Habegger http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/07/02/i-get-email/comment-page-1/#comment-166074 Eric Habegger Tue, 05 Jul 2011 18:40:30 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=7012#comment-166074 Anchor, if pointing out hypocrisy and lameness is being a policeman then so be it. Actually policemen act within narrower constraints than this and pointing out hypocrisy isn't within that purview. Obviously for you it is similar to the policeman putting on his siren behind a whole group of highway speeders. The cop nabs the first one that slows down because he was the one with the guiltiest conscience. You were that man, or at least you felt like it. Anchor, if pointing out hypocrisy and lameness is being a policeman then so be it. Actually policemen act within narrower constraints than this and pointing out hypocrisy isn’t within that purview. Obviously for you it is similar to the policeman putting on his siren behind a whole group of highway speeders. The cop nabs the first one that slows down because he was the one with the guiltiest conscience. You were that man, or at least you felt like it.

]]> By: Anchor http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/07/02/i-get-email/comment-page-1/#comment-166063 Anchor Tue, 05 Jul 2011 17:37:40 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=7012#comment-166063 In case that got muddled in some browsers, the figure is 'more than' 210,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 years. Or over 700 billion times as long as the current 13.7 billion-year age of the universe. Curious, isn't it, that but for a single quark switch, a free neutron's mean lifespan before decaying into a proton is a digestible span of only about 15 minutes. In case that got muddled in some browsers, the figure is ‘more than’ 210,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 years.

Or over 700 billion times as long as the current 13.7 billion-year age of the universe.

Curious, isn’t it, that but for a single quark switch, a free neutron’s mean lifespan before decaying into a proton is a digestible span of only about 15 minutes.

]]> By: Anchor http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/07/02/i-get-email/comment-page-1/#comment-166060 Anchor Tue, 05 Jul 2011 17:03:53 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=7012#comment-166060 Lab Lemming #46 asks: "Are normal protons stable?" Estimated mean lifetime of protons : >2.1×10^29 yr (long enough to be confidently considered 'stable') Even the abnormal ones. Lab Lemming #46 asks: “Are normal protons stable?”

Estimated mean lifetime of protons : >2.1×10^29 yr (long enough to be confidently considered ‘stable’)

Even the abnormal ones.

]]> By: Anchor http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/07/02/i-get-email/comment-page-1/#comment-166055 Anchor Tue, 05 Jul 2011 16:40:38 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=7012#comment-166055 "Does it ever occur to anyone commenting here that it is equally depressing to see how many people following this blog need to find absolute safety before daring to venture an opinion." Does it ever occur to anyone like Eric Habegger that a person's first encounter of a posting can happen over an appreciable span of time AND may perchance never in the slightest be influenced by previous respondants when "daring to venture" a perfectly legitimate and original opinion utterly unmotivated by any daft notion of "absolute safety" in numbers? Does it ever occur to anyone like Eric Habegger how "depressing" it is to encounter yet another control-freak policeman on a blog thread, on which almost everyone else presumes a liberty [shudder] of venturing an opinion? "What this man is saying is very similar to the evidence string theory has. But unfortunately the emailer does not have the blessings of the gurus of physics so it is very SAFE to criticize." Ah. Yes. Beware those boogyman "gurus of physics". (Notice the clear implication that ALL such 'guru physicists' are necessarily String Theorists). It's just not "SAFE" to disagree with them, is it? Even when you're armed with an authentic understanding of the subject. (HAH). Just as long as folks like you and Robert can declare your outrage and your 'Constitutional Right' to harbor the Truth with God-like Certitude, that's all that counts. Pathetic. “Does it ever occur to anyone commenting here that it is equally depressing to see how many people following this blog need to find absolute safety before daring to venture an opinion.”

Does it ever occur to anyone like Eric Habegger that a person’s first encounter of a posting can happen over an appreciable span of time AND may perchance never in the slightest be influenced by previous respondants when “daring to venture” a perfectly legitimate and original opinion utterly unmotivated by any daft notion of “absolute safety” in numbers?

Does it ever occur to anyone like Eric Habegger how “depressing” it is to encounter yet another control-freak policeman on a blog thread, on which almost everyone else presumes a liberty [shudder] of venturing an opinion?

“What this man is saying is very similar to the evidence string theory has. But unfortunately the emailer does not have the blessings of the gurus of physics so it is very SAFE to criticize.”

Ah. Yes. Beware those boogyman “gurus of physics”. (Notice the clear implication that ALL such ‘guru physicists’ are necessarily String Theorists). It’s just not “SAFE” to disagree with them, is it? Even when you’re armed with an authentic understanding of the subject. (HAH). Just as long as folks like you and Robert can declare your outrage and your ‘Constitutional Right’ to harbor the Truth with God-like Certitude, that’s all that counts.

Pathetic.

]]> By: AJKamper http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/07/02/i-get-email/comment-page-1/#comment-166046 AJKamper Tue, 05 Jul 2011 14:12:48 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=7012#comment-166046 Lab Lemming: Some theories predict they won't be stable, but the half life is 10^31 years or more. Thus, trying to observe proton decay has been tricky, and so far we haven't done it. I don't recall what the most recent reasonable lower limit is, based on the experiments we've done. Lab Lemming:

Some theories predict they won’t be stable, but the half life is 10^31 years or more. Thus, trying to observe proton decay has been tricky, and so far we haven’t done it. I don’t recall what the most recent reasonable lower limit is, based on the experiments we’ve done.

]]> By: Lab Lemming http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/07/02/i-get-email/comment-page-1/#comment-166030 Lab Lemming Tue, 05 Jul 2011 09:22:24 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=7012#comment-166030 Are normal protons stable? Are normal protons stable?

]]> By: Jack Zodiac http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/07/02/i-get-email/comment-page-1/#comment-166015 Jack Zodiac Tue, 05 Jul 2011 03:51:04 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=7012#comment-166015 Why x out the e-mail? I wanna help him with his problem. With SCIENCE! Why x out the e-mail? I wanna help him with his problem. With SCIENCE!

]]> By: Eric Habegger http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/07/02/i-get-email/comment-page-1/#comment-166013 Eric Habegger Tue, 05 Jul 2011 03:39:48 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=7012#comment-166013 I hate to say this, actually I like saying it ;-) , but the reaction to Sean's post is more illuminating than the post. I think the post and the way Sean framed it is hilarious. Sean struck exactly the right tone. But by far the majority of comments to it were stating the obvious - that the emailer was wrong. Duh!!! There sure seems to be a cranky need in people to pile on when something is obviously wrong. Does it ever occur to anyone commenting here that it is equally depressing to see how many people following this blog need to find absolute safety before daring to venture an opinion. I find it amusing that the emailer was so sure of himself. But I also find it amusing that so many scientific types, both professional and amateur, are equally sure about the latest theories (last thirty years) that have a rabid following but no physical proof. What this man is saying is very similar to the evidence string theory has. But unfortunately the emailer does not have the blessings of the gurus of physics so it is very SAFE to criticize. I hate to say this, actually I like saying it ;-) , but the reaction to Sean’s post is more illuminating than the post. I think the post and the way Sean framed it is hilarious. Sean struck exactly the right tone. But by far the majority of comments to it were stating the obvious – that the emailer was wrong. Duh!!!

There sure seems to be a cranky need in people to pile on when something is obviously wrong. Does it ever occur to anyone commenting here that it is equally depressing to see how many people following this blog need to find absolute safety before daring to venture an opinion. I find it amusing that the emailer was so sure of himself. But I also find it amusing that so many scientific types, both professional and amateur, are equally sure about the latest theories (last thirty years) that have a rabid following but no physical proof. What this man is saying is very similar to the evidence string theory has. But unfortunately the emailer does not have the blessings of the gurus of physics so it is very SAFE to criticize.

]]> By: Andy Fleming http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/07/02/i-get-email/comment-page-1/#comment-165996 Andy Fleming Mon, 04 Jul 2011 22:03:27 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=7012#comment-165996 Depressingly familiar e-mail. Depressingly familiar e-mail.

]]> By: Dogg http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/07/02/i-get-email/comment-page-1/#comment-165990 Dogg Mon, 04 Jul 2011 19:27:16 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=7012#comment-165990 This is the best email I've ever read. It starts as an honest naive thought of a child (a pretty smart one too!) and then, like in "the Exorcist" turns to a nightmare of dumbness :) Cheers ya'all! Dogg This is the best email I’ve ever read. It starts as an honest naive thought of a child (a pretty smart one too!) and then, like in “the Exorcist” turns to a nightmare of dumbness :)

Cheers ya’all!

Dogg

]]> By: TedL http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/07/02/i-get-email/comment-page-1/#comment-165987 TedL Mon, 04 Jul 2011 16:41:14 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=7012#comment-165987 Robert's short email is so rich with irony I can't stop chuckling. I've filed this one away as a model for a future book character. The "Cheer Retard" line is just brilliant. Robert’s short email is so rich with irony I can’t stop chuckling. I’ve filed this one away as a model for a future book character. The “Cheer Retard” line is just brilliant.

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