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	<title>Comments on: Galileons</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/07/30/galileons/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/07/30/galileons/</link>
	<description>Random samplings from a universe of ideas.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 25 May 2012 14:35:45 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Orlando</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/07/30/galileons/comment-page-1/#comment-181856</link>
		<dc:creator>Orlando</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Sep 2011 15:03:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=7111#comment-181856</guid>
		<description>Hi Mark,
I recently read some stuff by Kurt Hinterbichler about Galileon ideas and found it pretty interesting.
Many aspects are just too complex for me but I found your article very helpful to understand what&#039;s all about.
Thanks for your work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Mark,<br />
I recently read some stuff by Kurt Hinterbichler about Galileon ideas and found it pretty interesting.<br />
Many aspects are just too complex for me but I found your article very helpful to understand what&#8217;s all about.<br />
Thanks for your work.</p>
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		<title>By: Fireworks Below 1TeV</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/07/30/galileons/comment-page-1/#comment-171492</link>
		<dc:creator>Fireworks Below 1TeV</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Aug 2011 22:45:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=7111#comment-171492</guid>
		<description>Not sure I understand Mark&#039;s motivation or claims here.

Firstly, Mark says in #4 and #5 that he is not really interested in the 5d brane theories per se, they are just a device to construct interesting 4d effective theories. But if one is only interested in 4d effective actions, then one is free to make up any 4d action you want. In fact if the 4d EFT is the only thing of interest, then the right way to study them is what EFTheorists have been doing for decades, which is to parameterize all possible theories in the EFT framework (possibly assuming some symmetries, field content, etc), rather than restricting to some special subset of EFTs. The only legitimate reason why an EFTheorist would look at a special subset of 4d EFTs, derived from some 5d action, is because they really care about the underlying 5d microphysical theory.

Secondly, Mark claims in #8 that since he only studies the 4d EFTs, then they are not subject to the same experimental constraints that have been found for the 5d theories. But this seems to be a misunderstanding of what an EFT is. If the underlying 5d theory breaks down at an energy scale of, say M, then the 4d EFT will break down at a scale M at the most (and possibly at a lower scale). For scales less than M, the EFT knows about all the details of the full 5d theory through the coefficients in an infinite expansion of operators. So any constraint that the full theory is subject to, is a constraint the EFT is subject to also. For instance, the chiral Lagrangian of QCD does not tip-toe its way around constraints on QCD - it too is subject to all of them (and works, of course). But breaks down as we go up to the QCD scale. In short, the EFT is subject to all the constraints of the underlying microphysical theory, plus more constraints (from a limited range of validity), not less.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not sure I understand Mark&#8217;s motivation or claims here.</p>
<p>Firstly, Mark says in #4 and #5 that he is not really interested in the 5d brane theories per se, they are just a device to construct interesting 4d effective theories. But if one is only interested in 4d effective actions, then one is free to make up any 4d action you want. In fact if the 4d EFT is the only thing of interest, then the right way to study them is what EFTheorists have been doing for decades, which is to parameterize all possible theories in the EFT framework (possibly assuming some symmetries, field content, etc), rather than restricting to some special subset of EFTs. The only legitimate reason why an EFTheorist would look at a special subset of 4d EFTs, derived from some 5d action, is because they really care about the underlying 5d microphysical theory.</p>
<p>Secondly, Mark claims in #8 that since he only studies the 4d EFTs, then they are not subject to the same experimental constraints that have been found for the 5d theories. But this seems to be a misunderstanding of what an EFT is. If the underlying 5d theory breaks down at an energy scale of, say M, then the 4d EFT will break down at a scale M at the most (and possibly at a lower scale). For scales less than M, the EFT knows about all the details of the full 5d theory through the coefficients in an infinite expansion of operators. So any constraint that the full theory is subject to, is a constraint the EFT is subject to also. For instance, the chiral Lagrangian of QCD does not tip-toe its way around constraints on QCD &#8211; it too is subject to all of them (and works, of course). But breaks down as we go up to the QCD scale. In short, the EFT is subject to all the constraints of the underlying microphysical theory, plus more constraints (from a limited range of validity), not less.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/07/30/galileons/comment-page-1/#comment-169402</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Aug 2011 01:54:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=7111#comment-169402</guid>
		<description>Thanks again - fixed!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks again &#8211; fixed!</p>
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		<title>By: Rich</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/07/30/galileons/comment-page-1/#comment-169226</link>
		<dc:creator>Rich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Aug 2011 09:36:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=7111#comment-169226</guid>
		<description>One more: &quot;It is much to early to know&quot; -&gt; &quot;It is much to0 early to know&quot;

Interesting article (even though it goes right over my head) - thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One more: &#8220;It is much to early to know&#8221; -&gt; &#8220;It is much to0 early to know&#8221;</p>
<p>Interesting article (even though it goes right over my head) &#8211; thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/07/30/galileons/comment-page-1/#comment-169013</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jul 2011 22:48:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=7111#comment-169013</guid>
		<description>Peter - oops! Thanks - fixed.

Mark F. The theories I&#039;m writing about are 4d effective field theories, and so on their own don&#039;t face such constraints. However, the original Galileon, and the ones I&#039;ve discussed, certainly can find their origins in higher dimensional implementations. In that case, the extra dimensions are infinite. So far these theories face their most stringent tests from internal consistency (ghost free conditions, lack of superluminal modes, etc.) and from consistency with solar system constraints (such as the Shapiro time delay) rather than from collider measurements.

To the best of my knowledge there is no connection to f(R) gravity, beyond the fact that both have been invoked as possible explanations for cosmic acceleration.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peter &#8211; oops! Thanks &#8211; fixed.</p>
<p>Mark F. The theories I&#8217;m writing about are 4d effective field theories, and so on their own don&#8217;t face such constraints. However, the original Galileon, and the ones I&#8217;ve discussed, certainly can find their origins in higher dimensional implementations. In that case, the extra dimensions are infinite. So far these theories face their most stringent tests from internal consistency (ghost free conditions, lack of superluminal modes, etc.) and from consistency with solar system constraints (such as the Shapiro time delay) rather than from collider measurements.</p>
<p>To the best of my knowledge there is no connection to f(R) gravity, beyond the fact that both have been invoked as possible explanations for cosmic acceleration.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Mortensen</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/07/30/galileons/comment-page-1/#comment-169004</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Mortensen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jul 2011 20:55:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=7111#comment-169004</guid>
		<description>&quot;but there equations&quot; -&gt; &quot;but their equations&quot;. &quot;the such theories&quot; -&gt; &quot;that such theories&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;but there equations&#8221; -&gt; &#8220;but their equations&#8221;. &#8220;the such theories&#8221; -&gt; &#8220;that such theories&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Mark F.</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/07/30/galileons/comment-page-1/#comment-169002</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark F.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jul 2011 20:04:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=7111#comment-169002</guid>
		<description>Mark,

This does sound interesting, but do these theories have certain restrictions on the size of the extra dimensions and, thus, have the potential to be probed by the LHC?  The LHC has ruled out certain extra dimensional theories.  Do the theories you&#039;re working on fall under this umbrella?

Also, is there any connection between these theories and f(R) gravity?  Thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark,</p>
<p>This does sound interesting, but do these theories have certain restrictions on the size of the extra dimensions and, thus, have the potential to be probed by the LHC?  The LHC has ruled out certain extra dimensional theories.  Do the theories you&#8217;re working on fall under this umbrella?</p>
<p>Also, is there any connection between these theories and f(R) gravity?  Thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/07/30/galileons/comment-page-1/#comment-168979</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jul 2011 12:55:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=7111#comment-168979</guid>
		<description>Hi Fireworks. I&#039;m not specifically focused on these for cosmic acceleration, although it might indeed be interesting if one finds a novel way of getting it out of them. My main interests are outlined in my response to Jolyon. Regarding modified gravity models, I think the general question of whether there exist sensible infrared modifications of GR that can yield interesting cosmology is a good one. However, through a lot of work, it has become clear that the models people have proposed are very tightly constrained by observations and issues of theoretical consistency, such as ghosts. This is how some progress is made in science.

DGP was not invented to describe cosmic acceleration - but indeed many people have worked on it for that, and it certainly is an interesting question. The work I&#039;m describing above is about 4d effective field theories, not really about modified gravity at all. One can consider the galileons, and other similar fields, as arising from higher dimensional physics, or just use that idea merely as a mathematical tool to discover new interesting 4d field theories. The properties I outlined in the post were unexpected and are, I think, interesting enough to warrant some further study.  My interests are precisely in seeing whether they constitute sensible theories, which make sense technically. If the answer is yes, I&#039;ll remain interested; if not, then I&#039;ll shift this part of my research interests elsewhere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Fireworks. I&#8217;m not specifically focused on these for cosmic acceleration, although it might indeed be interesting if one finds a novel way of getting it out of them. My main interests are outlined in my response to Jolyon. Regarding modified gravity models, I think the general question of whether there exist sensible infrared modifications of GR that can yield interesting cosmology is a good one. However, through a lot of work, it has become clear that the models people have proposed are very tightly constrained by observations and issues of theoretical consistency, such as ghosts. This is how some progress is made in science.</p>
<p>DGP was not invented to describe cosmic acceleration &#8211; but indeed many people have worked on it for that, and it certainly is an interesting question. The work I&#8217;m describing above is about 4d effective field theories, not really about modified gravity at all. One can consider the galileons, and other similar fields, as arising from higher dimensional physics, or just use that idea merely as a mathematical tool to discover new interesting 4d field theories. The properties I outlined in the post were unexpected and are, I think, interesting enough to warrant some further study.  My interests are precisely in seeing whether they constitute sensible theories, which make sense technically. If the answer is yes, I&#8217;ll remain interested; if not, then I&#8217;ll shift this part of my research interests elsewhere.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/07/30/galileons/comment-page-1/#comment-168977</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jul 2011 12:43:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=7111#comment-168977</guid>
		<description>Hi Jolyon, I think it remains to be seen whether this is generically the case. My own interest here is in trying to map out the possible 4d effective field theories that one can discover by going through the probe brane construction. Clearly some of these, with some couplings to matter, have problems. However, precisely the point of exploring the more general models we have looked at is to see whether there are new consistent constructions. We&#039;ll see!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Jolyon, I think it remains to be seen whether this is generically the case. My own interest here is in trying to map out the possible 4d effective field theories that one can discover by going through the probe brane construction. Clearly some of these, with some couplings to matter, have problems. However, precisely the point of exploring the more general models we have looked at is to see whether there are new consistent constructions. We&#8217;ll see!</p>
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		<title>By: Fireworks below 1Tev</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/07/30/galileons/comment-page-1/#comment-168958</link>
		<dc:creator>Fireworks below 1Tev</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jul 2011 07:35:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=7111#comment-168958</guid>
		<description>Isn&#039;t this an incredibly complicated and unappealing way to obtain something that is already part of Einstein&#039;s gravity, namely cosmic acceleration (due to CC)? DGP actions appear extremely fine tuned, it is unclear if they are well behaved quantum mechanically, do not address the smallness of the CC problem, have no UV completion, and lead to violations of causality. On the other hand, GR with a CC is weakly coupled, quantum mechanically well behaved as a low energy EFT, has no known obstruction to UV completion (and is realized in string theory), is manifestly causal, is in agreement with all observations, is simple and elegant, and appears the only sensible theory of gravity that can emerge as a low energy effective theory from any plausible theory of quantum gravity (and is even dual to other manifestly well behaved theories, such as gauge theories etc via holography). 

The only problem for GR + CC is that the CC is so small (which is perhaps ameliorated by anthropics anyhow). But I&#039;ll take one aesthetic problem over 10 major physical problems any day. And besides, DGP does not address the smallness of CC problem either. So I don&#039;t quite get the fuss over these bizarre modified gravity models. I think that most of the people who work on them are focussed on making cosmological predictions, while sweeping most of the major fundamental issues under the rug. On the other hand, the people who spend their time focussed on fundamental issues, such as black hole information paradox, quantum gravity, eternal inflation, string theory, loop quantum gravity, Wheeler de Witt equation, holography, duality, gauge theory, etc, have never found DGP or Galileons ever being relevant or useful at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Isn&#8217;t this an incredibly complicated and unappealing way to obtain something that is already part of Einstein&#8217;s gravity, namely cosmic acceleration (due to CC)? DGP actions appear extremely fine tuned, it is unclear if they are well behaved quantum mechanically, do not address the smallness of the CC problem, have no UV completion, and lead to violations of causality. On the other hand, GR with a CC is weakly coupled, quantum mechanically well behaved as a low energy EFT, has no known obstruction to UV completion (and is realized in string theory), is manifestly causal, is in agreement with all observations, is simple and elegant, and appears the only sensible theory of gravity that can emerge as a low energy effective theory from any plausible theory of quantum gravity (and is even dual to other manifestly well behaved theories, such as gauge theories etc via holography). </p>
<p>The only problem for GR + CC is that the CC is so small (which is perhaps ameliorated by anthropics anyhow). But I&#8217;ll take one aesthetic problem over 10 major physical problems any day. And besides, DGP does not address the smallness of CC problem either. So I don&#8217;t quite get the fuss over these bizarre modified gravity models. I think that most of the people who work on them are focussed on making cosmological predictions, while sweeping most of the major fundamental issues under the rug. On the other hand, the people who spend their time focussed on fundamental issues, such as black hole information paradox, quantum gravity, eternal inflation, string theory, loop quantum gravity, Wheeler de Witt equation, holography, duality, gauge theory, etc, have never found DGP or Galileons ever being relevant or useful at all.</p>
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		<title>By: Sili</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/07/30/galileons/comment-page-1/#comment-168948</link>
		<dc:creator>Sili</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jul 2011 06:27:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=7111#comment-168948</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt; attended by the majority (but not all, unfortunately) of people in the world working on these ideas.&lt;/blockquote&gt;What do you mean &quot;unfortunately&quot;?

Imagine if the roof had collapsed. This is why royal families, say, never travel together.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p> attended by the majority (but not all, unfortunately) of people in the world working on these ideas.</p></blockquote>
<p>What do you mean &#8220;unfortunately&#8221;?</p>
<p>Imagine if the roof had collapsed. This is why royal families, say, never travel together.</p>
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		<title>By: Jolyon</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/07/30/galileons/comment-page-1/#comment-168937</link>
		<dc:creator>Jolyon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jul 2011 05:39:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=7111#comment-168937</guid>
		<description>Mark,
How do you counter the claim that Gallileon theories generically allow for superluminal propagation?
Best,
Jolyon</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark,<br />
How do you counter the claim that Gallileon theories generically allow for superluminal propagation?<br />
Best,<br />
Jolyon</p>
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