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	<title>Comments on: What Can We Know About The World Without Looking At It?</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/08/11/what-can-we-know-about-the-world-without-looking-at-it/</link>
	<description>Random samplings from a universe of ideas.</description>
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		<title>By: Rosmary LYNDALL WEMM</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/08/11/what-can-we-know-about-the-world-without-looking-at-it/comment-page-2/#comment-174374</link>
		<dc:creator>Rosmary LYNDALL WEMM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Aug 2011 15:41:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=7336#comment-174374</guid>
		<description>Wonderful article.  Thank you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wonderful article.  Thank you.</p>
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		<title>By: Evolution doesn’t fit our generalities &#124; Biology News by Biologged</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/08/11/what-can-we-know-about-the-world-without-looking-at-it/comment-page-2/#comment-172628</link>
		<dc:creator>Evolution doesn’t fit our generalities &#124; Biology News by Biologged</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Aug 2011 12:31:46 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] may be the most robust and powerful theory for deductive inference in biology, but even here rationalism has its limits. For example, before the rise of molecular methods in exploring polymorphism the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] may be the most robust and powerful theory for deductive inference in biology, but even here rationalism has its limits. For example, before the rise of molecular methods in exploring polymorphism the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Evolution doesn&#8217;t fit our generalities &#124; Gene Expression &#124; Discover Magazine</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/08/11/what-can-we-know-about-the-world-without-looking-at-it/comment-page-2/#comment-172469</link>
		<dc:creator>Evolution doesn&#8217;t fit our generalities &#124; Gene Expression &#124; Discover Magazine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Aug 2011 16:12:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=7336#comment-172469</guid>
		<description>[...] may be the most robust and powerful theory for deductive inference in biology, but even here rationalism has its limits. For example, before the rise of molecular methods in exploring polymorphism the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] may be the most robust and powerful theory for deductive inference in biology, but even here rationalism has its limits. For example, before the rise of molecular methods in exploring polymorphism the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Roger</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/08/11/what-can-we-know-about-the-world-without-looking-at-it/comment-page-1/#comment-172379</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Aug 2011 05:52:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=7336#comment-172379</guid>
		<description>Samuel, you have it backwards about the aether. Poincare proved that his theory did not depend on the aether, and he never said it did. But Einstein, from about 1918 to the end of his life, always maintained that special relativity does not require abandoning the aether.

I gave you the quote where Lorentz said that Einstein postulated what was previously proved. It is not speculation. Lorentz proved something called the theorem of the corresponding states, and Einstein just assumed it as a postulate.

The theory of relativity was certainly not solely Einstein’s work. That is not just my opinion, it is the opinion of every historian who has written about the matter.

Poincare understood the physical significance of special relativity much better than Einstein. Poincare was able to address the previous work, and say who was right and who was wrong. Einstein was not able to do that.

I did not say that Lorentz was generous to Poincare because sometimes Lorentz failed to credit Poincare.

I am not claiming any conspiracy theory. Just read the Lorentz, Poincare, and Einstein papers. All of the original and brilliant ideas are in the Lorentz and Poincare papers.

You claim to be a mathematician, and you claim that Einstein&#039;s contribution was mathematical rationalism, and yet you cannot find an idea or formula that was original to Einstein.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Samuel, you have it backwards about the aether. Poincare proved that his theory did not depend on the aether, and he never said it did. But Einstein, from about 1918 to the end of his life, always maintained that special relativity does not require abandoning the aether.</p>
<p>I gave you the quote where Lorentz said that Einstein postulated what was previously proved. It is not speculation. Lorentz proved something called the theorem of the corresponding states, and Einstein just assumed it as a postulate.</p>
<p>The theory of relativity was certainly not solely Einstein’s work. That is not just my opinion, it is the opinion of every historian who has written about the matter.</p>
<p>Poincare understood the physical significance of special relativity much better than Einstein. Poincare was able to address the previous work, and say who was right and who was wrong. Einstein was not able to do that.</p>
<p>I did not say that Lorentz was generous to Poincare because sometimes Lorentz failed to credit Poincare.</p>
<p>I am not claiming any conspiracy theory. Just read the Lorentz, Poincare, and Einstein papers. All of the original and brilliant ideas are in the Lorentz and Poincare papers.</p>
<p>You claim to be a mathematician, and you claim that Einstein&#8217;s contribution was mathematical rationalism, and yet you cannot find an idea or formula that was original to Einstein.</p>
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		<title>By: Samuel Prime</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/08/11/what-can-we-know-about-the-world-without-looking-at-it/comment-page-1/#comment-172364</link>
		<dc:creator>Samuel Prime</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Aug 2011 03:50:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=7336#comment-172364</guid>
		<description>Even after 1905, when Poincare published his book Science and Method (1908) -- English version 1914 -- Poincare was still speculating various scenarios with the ether hypothesis, unsure whether it is useful or not.  Three years earlier, Einstein already reached that conclusion.  Poincare was clearly far behind and did not have the correct understanding of special relativity.  A good example where you can have equations and know how to do the algebra, but not understand what you&#039;re doing.

Therefore, Poincare&#039;s ether speculations are in stark contrast from Einstein&#039;s 1905 paper where he just abandons it without waffling.

--Roger: &quot;His 1905 theory does not depend on the aether at all. He only mentions the aether when discussing the work of others.&quot;

See pp. 131 and 152 of Poincare&#039;s electron paper (1905) where he is dealing with the ether and specifically mentions the energy as being &quot;mainly located in the ether parts nearest the electron.&quot;  Clearly, he is using the notion of ether by this time (1905), when Einstein abandoned it.  Even in his 1908 book, Poincare was still toying with the ether hypothesis.

--&quot;Poincare had all the equations correct, including E = mc^2.&quot;

Physics is not merely about equations, but understanding their physical significance.  The equivalence between mass and energy by means of this equation was not understood until Einstein, which is why he is credited for it.

--&quot;But it does not change the facts that those theories were conceived before Einstein, that Einstein only postulated what his predecessors proved&quot;

That&#039;s like saying Euclid only postulated what the geometers before him proved.  It is pretty clear by now that you have something against Einstein and are reinterpreting the history of relativity for a private agenda.  That charge, by the way, can be levelled if one felt like it, against nearly any physicist today doing original work.

--&quot;that this was the opinion of Lorentz, Einstein, Minkowski, and everyone else at the time, and that Lorentz credited Poincare over Einstein.&quot;

Idle speculation. Lorentz already said that &quot;the theory of relativity is really solely Einstein&#039;s work.&quot; That&#039;s the point. Learn to accept it. Otherwise it is your issue not that of the physics community.

I&#039;ve many other things to do, so I won&#039;t be bothering to look at your response since it&#039;s clear you do not wish to approach this issue objectively. Your interpretation of Lorentz being &quot;generous&quot; to Einstein proves my point since you did not prefer to say that Lorentz was being generous toward Poincare instead.  You have an agenda, and I think I exposed it, but I won&#039;t waste more time on someone&#039;s conspiracy theory.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even after 1905, when Poincare published his book Science and Method (1908) &#8212; English version 1914 &#8212; Poincare was still speculating various scenarios with the ether hypothesis, unsure whether it is useful or not.  Three years earlier, Einstein already reached that conclusion.  Poincare was clearly far behind and did not have the correct understanding of special relativity.  A good example where you can have equations and know how to do the algebra, but not understand what you&#8217;re doing.</p>
<p>Therefore, Poincare&#8217;s ether speculations are in stark contrast from Einstein&#8217;s 1905 paper where he just abandons it without waffling.</p>
<p>&#8211;Roger: &#8220;His 1905 theory does not depend on the aether at all. He only mentions the aether when discussing the work of others.&#8221;</p>
<p>See pp. 131 and 152 of Poincare&#8217;s electron paper (1905) where he is dealing with the ether and specifically mentions the energy as being &#8220;mainly located in the ether parts nearest the electron.&#8221;  Clearly, he is using the notion of ether by this time (1905), when Einstein abandoned it.  Even in his 1908 book, Poincare was still toying with the ether hypothesis.</p>
<p>&#8211;&#8221;Poincare had all the equations correct, including E = mc^2.&#8221;</p>
<p>Physics is not merely about equations, but understanding their physical significance.  The equivalence between mass and energy by means of this equation was not understood until Einstein, which is why he is credited for it.</p>
<p>&#8211;&#8221;But it does not change the facts that those theories were conceived before Einstein, that Einstein only postulated what his predecessors proved&#8221;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s like saying Euclid only postulated what the geometers before him proved.  It is pretty clear by now that you have something against Einstein and are reinterpreting the history of relativity for a private agenda.  That charge, by the way, can be levelled if one felt like it, against nearly any physicist today doing original work.</p>
<p>&#8211;&#8221;that this was the opinion of Lorentz, Einstein, Minkowski, and everyone else at the time, and that Lorentz credited Poincare over Einstein.&#8221;</p>
<p>Idle speculation. Lorentz already said that &#8220;the theory of relativity is really solely Einstein&#8217;s work.&#8221; That&#8217;s the point. Learn to accept it. Otherwise it is your issue not that of the physics community.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve many other things to do, so I won&#8217;t be bothering to look at your response since it&#8217;s clear you do not wish to approach this issue objectively. Your interpretation of Lorentz being &#8220;generous&#8221; to Einstein proves my point since you did not prefer to say that Lorentz was being generous toward Poincare instead.  You have an agenda, and I think I exposed it, but I won&#8217;t waste more time on someone&#8217;s conspiracy theory.</p>
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		<title>By: Roger</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/08/11/what-can-we-know-about-the-world-without-looking-at-it/comment-page-1/#comment-172254</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Aug 2011 16:06:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=7336#comment-172254</guid>
		<description>Poincare wrote in 1902, &quot;Whether the ether exists or not matters little ... some day, no doubt, the ether will be thrown aside as useless.&quot; His 1905 theory does not depend on the aether at all. He only mentions the aether when discussing the work of others. Poincare had all the equations correct, including E = mc^2.

Lorentz generously credited Einstein. It is true that Einstein&#039;s papers included explanations of some points omitted by Lorentz. Einstein&#039;s work can be considered independent of previous theories if you assume that Einstein would have conceived the work of all his predecessors. That is right. But it does not change the facts that those theories were conceived before Einstein, that Einstein only postulated what his predecessors proved, that this was the opinion of Lorentz, Einstein, Minkowski, and everyone else at the time, and that Lorentz credited Poincare over Einstein.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Poincare wrote in 1902, &#8220;Whether the ether exists or not matters little &#8230; some day, no doubt, the ether will be thrown aside as useless.&#8221; His 1905 theory does not depend on the aether at all. He only mentions the aether when discussing the work of others. Poincare had all the equations correct, including E = mc^2.</p>
<p>Lorentz generously credited Einstein. It is true that Einstein&#8217;s papers included explanations of some points omitted by Lorentz. Einstein&#8217;s work can be considered independent of previous theories if you assume that Einstein would have conceived the work of all his predecessors. That is right. But it does not change the facts that those theories were conceived before Einstein, that Einstein only postulated what his predecessors proved, that this was the opinion of Lorentz, Einstein, Minkowski, and everyone else at the time, and that Lorentz credited Poincare over Einstein.</p>
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		<title>By: Samuel Prime</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/08/11/what-can-we-know-about-the-world-without-looking-at-it/comment-page-1/#comment-172225</link>
		<dc:creator>Samuel Prime</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Aug 2011 07:41:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=7336#comment-172225</guid>
		<description>Number 93, that quote of Lorentz doesn&#039;t say Einstein copied his work from him or from Poincare.  In fact he gives credit to Einstein for getting the physics right:

&quot;The chief cause of my failure was my clinging to the idea that the variable t only can be considered as the true time and that my local time t&#039; must be regarded as no more than an auxiliary mathematical quantity. In Einstein&#039;s theory, on the contrary, t&#039; plays the same part as t; if we want to describe phenomena in terms of x&#039;, y&#039;, z&#039;, t&#039; we must work with these variables exactly as we could do with x, y, z, t.&quot;

p. 321 of his book &quot;The Theory of Electrons&quot;. Notice he&#039;s giving Einstein credit for the correct physical understanding of the variables and transformation, not Poincare (who assumed the ether).

Further, Lorentz made the following comment regarding Einstein&#039;s relativity:

&quot;I considered my time transformation only as a heuristic working hypothesis. So the theory of relativity is really solely Einstein&#039;s work. And there can be no doubt that he would have conceived it even if the work of all his predecessors in the theory of this field had not been done at all. His work is in this respect independent of the previous theories.&quot;

Lorentz, H.A. (1928), &quot;Conference on the Michelson-Morley Experiment&quot;, The Astrophysical Journal 68: 345-351

Finally, your comment about Poincare denying the ether is plainly false.  Look up Poincare&#039;s 1905 paper &quot;On the Dynamics of the Electron&quot; in which he assumes the ether.  He may have had some equations right -- except E = mc^2 -- but Poincare did not have the correct physical understanding of them -- not to dismiss his genius as a mathematician, of course.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Number 93, that quote of Lorentz doesn&#8217;t say Einstein copied his work from him or from Poincare.  In fact he gives credit to Einstein for getting the physics right:</p>
<p>&#8220;The chief cause of my failure was my clinging to the idea that the variable t only can be considered as the true time and that my local time t&#8217; must be regarded as no more than an auxiliary mathematical quantity. In Einstein&#8217;s theory, on the contrary, t&#8217; plays the same part as t; if we want to describe phenomena in terms of x&#8217;, y&#8217;, z&#8217;, t&#8217; we must work with these variables exactly as we could do with x, y, z, t.&#8221;</p>
<p>p. 321 of his book &#8220;The Theory of Electrons&#8221;. Notice he&#8217;s giving Einstein credit for the correct physical understanding of the variables and transformation, not Poincare (who assumed the ether).</p>
<p>Further, Lorentz made the following comment regarding Einstein&#8217;s relativity:</p>
<p>&#8220;I considered my time transformation only as a heuristic working hypothesis. So the theory of relativity is really solely Einstein&#8217;s work. And there can be no doubt that he would have conceived it even if the work of all his predecessors in the theory of this field had not been done at all. His work is in this respect independent of the previous theories.&#8221;</p>
<p>Lorentz, H.A. (1928), &#8220;Conference on the Michelson-Morley Experiment&#8221;, The Astrophysical Journal 68: 345-351</p>
<p>Finally, your comment about Poincare denying the ether is plainly false.  Look up Poincare&#8217;s 1905 paper &#8220;On the Dynamics of the Electron&#8221; in which he assumes the ether.  He may have had some equations right &#8212; except E = mc^2 &#8212; but Poincare did not have the correct physical understanding of them &#8212; not to dismiss his genius as a mathematician, of course.</p>
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		<title>By: melior</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/08/11/what-can-we-know-about-the-world-without-looking-at-it/comment-page-1/#comment-172223</link>
		<dc:creator>melior</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Aug 2011 06:17:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=7336#comment-172223</guid>
		<description>&quot;...he couldn’t imagine a universe without God.&quot;

The argument from incredulity is a logical fallacy that essentially relies on a lack of imagination in the audience.
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argument_from_incredulity</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;he couldn’t imagine a universe without God.&#8221;</p>
<p>The argument from incredulity is a logical fallacy that essentially relies on a lack of imagination in the audience.<br />
<a href="http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argument_from_incredulity" rel="nofollow">http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argument_from_incredulity</a></p>
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		<title>By: Bowerbird #14: Disassembled Radio Girl Scout &#171; avian architext</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/08/11/what-can-we-know-about-the-world-without-looking-at-it/comment-page-1/#comment-172162</link>
		<dc:creator>Bowerbird #14: Disassembled Radio Girl Scout &#171; avian architext</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Aug 2011 17:46:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=7336#comment-172162</guid>
		<description>[...] thing worse than an office full of assholes is an office full of assholes telling us what to do. Believing that something must be true about the world because you can’t imagine otherwise is, five... This is shocking only to the most fanatical admirers of French-style gardens. We feel a similar [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] thing worse than an office full of assholes is an office full of assholes telling us what to do. Believing that something must be true about the world because you can’t imagine otherwise is, five&#8230; This is shocking only to the most fanatical admirers of French-style gardens. We feel a similar [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Data Fatigue &#124; Cosmic Variance &#124; Discover Magazine</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/08/11/what-can-we-know-about-the-world-without-looking-at-it/comment-page-1/#comment-172161</link>
		<dc:creator>Data Fatigue &#124; Cosmic Variance &#124; Discover Magazine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Aug 2011 17:41:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=7336#comment-172161</guid>
		<description>[...] RSS                   &#171; What Can We Know About The World Without Looking At It? [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] RSS                   &laquo; What Can We Know About The World Without Looking At It? [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Roger</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/08/11/what-can-we-know-about-the-world-without-looking-at-it/comment-page-1/#comment-172157</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Aug 2011 17:09:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=7336#comment-172157</guid>
		<description>Lorentz compared his relativity to Einstein&#039;s by saying, &quot;the chief difference being that Einstein simply postulates what we have deduced&quot;. Lorentz gave more credit to Poincare.

Pais makes the argument that Poincare never understood special relativity. But all the scholars acknowledge that Poincare got all of the formulas correct, and did it without any help from Einstein. And it was Poincare who explicitly denied the aether, while Lorentz&#039;s position was similar to Einstein&#039;s.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lorentz compared his relativity to Einstein&#8217;s by saying, &#8220;the chief difference being that Einstein simply postulates what we have deduced&#8221;. Lorentz gave more credit to Poincare.</p>
<p>Pais makes the argument that Poincare never understood special relativity. But all the scholars acknowledge that Poincare got all of the formulas correct, and did it without any help from Einstein. And it was Poincare who explicitly denied the aether, while Lorentz&#8217;s position was similar to Einstein&#8217;s.</p>
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		<title>By: Samuel Prime</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/08/11/what-can-we-know-about-the-world-without-looking-at-it/comment-page-1/#comment-171979</link>
		<dc:creator>Samuel Prime</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Aug 2011 18:34:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=7336#comment-171979</guid>
		<description>Roger, I hope that you&#039;re not into conspiracy theories since there is nothing I can do about it. However, if you are not, then see chapter 6 of Abraham Pais&#039; &quot;Subtle is the Lord&quot; which details the research around these issues.  Einstein&#039;s approach was quite different from Lorentz and Poincare, the latter assumed the ether while Einstein did not -- or else Lorentz and Poincare would have received the prize.  Lorentz in his papers in fact acknowledges Einstein&#039;s work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Roger, I hope that you&#8217;re not into conspiracy theories since there is nothing I can do about it. However, if you are not, then see chapter 6 of Abraham Pais&#8217; &#8220;Subtle is the Lord&#8221; which details the research around these issues.  Einstein&#8217;s approach was quite different from Lorentz and Poincare, the latter assumed the ether while Einstein did not &#8212; or else Lorentz and Poincare would have received the prize.  Lorentz in his papers in fact acknowledges Einstein&#8217;s work.</p>
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		<title>By: Rafael</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/08/11/what-can-we-know-about-the-world-without-looking-at-it/comment-page-1/#comment-171948</link>
		<dc:creator>Rafael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Aug 2011 13:50:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=7336#comment-171948</guid>
		<description>I think there is a huge mistake with the modern science communicators who are debating about religion, philosophy and its relation to science. I&#039;ve seen arguments that connect the rationalism with God. Of course God is free to be logical. But in fact, if he is free, it is also free to be illogical. Most of the jokes made ​​by Chesterton on modern thought consists precisely in this way of thinking. He would say something like &quot;I do not care Dragons look like animals existed, I marvel over the hippo looks like an animal that does not exist..&quot; Both Dragon and the Hippo are not a necessity. And the same goes for everything in the cosmos. The number Pi may be required by the rules but the world is not. If the world were necessary there would be no room for God.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think there is a huge mistake with the modern science communicators who are debating about religion, philosophy and its relation to science. I&#8217;ve seen arguments that connect the rationalism with God. Of course God is free to be logical. But in fact, if he is free, it is also free to be illogical. Most of the jokes made ​​by Chesterton on modern thought consists precisely in this way of thinking. He would say something like &#8220;I do not care Dragons look like animals existed, I marvel over the hippo looks like an animal that does not exist..&#8221; Both Dragon and the Hippo are not a necessity. And the same goes for everything in the cosmos. The number Pi may be required by the rules but the world is not. If the world were necessary there would be no room for God.</p>
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		<title>By: Mental Projection</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/08/11/what-can-we-know-about-the-world-without-looking-at-it/comment-page-1/#comment-171924</link>
		<dc:creator>Mental Projection</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Aug 2011 10:32:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=7336#comment-171924</guid>
		<description>Found the 2+2=4 ref...very cheeky
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del&#039;s_ontological_proof</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Found the 2+2=4 ref&#8230;very cheeky<br />
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del&#039;s_ontological_proof" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del&#039;s_ontological_proof</a></p>
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		<title>By: Noah</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/08/11/what-can-we-know-about-the-world-without-looking-at-it/comment-page-1/#comment-171907</link>
		<dc:creator>Noah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Aug 2011 08:22:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=7336#comment-171907</guid>
		<description>Attention string theorists: Please read this blog post.

That is all.

:)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Attention string theorists: Please read this blog post.</p>
<p>That is all.</p>
<p> <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Roger</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/08/11/what-can-we-know-about-the-world-without-looking-at-it/comment-page-1/#comment-171902</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Aug 2011 07:00:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=7336#comment-171902</guid>
		<description>Yes, Einstein&#039;s 1905 SR paper does not cite any other papers, whether theory or experiment. There were experimental tests of relativity that had been published, but Einstein ignored them. He was just giving an exposition of the Lorentz-Poincare theory, without explaining where the theory came from. But each actual advance to the theory was accompanied with citations to the experimental evidence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, Einstein&#8217;s 1905 SR paper does not cite any other papers, whether theory or experiment. There were experimental tests of relativity that had been published, but Einstein ignored them. He was just giving an exposition of the Lorentz-Poincare theory, without explaining where the theory came from. But each actual advance to the theory was accompanied with citations to the experimental evidence.</p>
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		<title>By: Samuel Prime</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/08/11/what-can-we-know-about-the-world-without-looking-at-it/comment-page-1/#comment-171896</link>
		<dc:creator>Samuel Prime</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Aug 2011 06:24:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=7336#comment-171896</guid>
		<description>Roger (#83), have a look at chapter 4 of Ronald Clark&#039;s biography of Einstein. Also read Einstein&#039;s 1905 &quot;Electrodynamics&quot; paper to see that he does not cite actual experimental basis for his work at the time of writing -- although all that came later. That doesn&#039;t mean Einstein never cared for experiments, but that he did start his work in intuitive &#039;rationalist&#039; imaginative ways (which he was excellent at).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Roger (#83), have a look at chapter 4 of Ronald Clark&#8217;s biography of Einstein. Also read Einstein&#8217;s 1905 &#8220;Electrodynamics&#8221; paper to see that he does not cite actual experimental basis for his work at the time of writing &#8212; although all that came later. That doesn&#8217;t mean Einstein never cared for experiments, but that he did start his work in intuitive &#8216;rationalist&#8217; imaginative ways (which he was excellent at).</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Too</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/08/11/what-can-we-know-about-the-world-without-looking-at-it/comment-page-1/#comment-171850</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Too</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Aug 2011 23:45:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=7336#comment-171850</guid>
		<description>We need empiricism because data is the cornerstone, the very bedrock of our knowledge.

We need rationalism in order to create a context and structure for all that data.  Rationalism allows us to make forecasts for instance.  That is the magic and danger of rationalism--knowledge without the dirty work of gathering data.

Rationalism should never be unhitched from the bridle of empiricism because it is easy, all too easy, to make errors of logic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We need empiricism because data is the cornerstone, the very bedrock of our knowledge.</p>
<p>We need rationalism in order to create a context and structure for all that data.  Rationalism allows us to make forecasts for instance.  That is the magic and danger of rationalism&#8211;knowledge without the dirty work of gathering data.</p>
<p>Rationalism should never be unhitched from the bridle of empiricism because it is easy, all too easy, to make errors of logic.</p>
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		<title>By: Otis Graf</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/08/11/what-can-we-know-about-the-world-without-looking-at-it/comment-page-1/#comment-171825</link>
		<dc:creator>Otis Graf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Aug 2011 20:36:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=7336#comment-171825</guid>
		<description>Sean seems to advocate for a way of thinking that is more primitive than either rationalism or empiricism.  &quot;It’s perfectly conceivable that the universe simply is that way, and there is no deeper explanation.&quot;

He advocates for the existence of &quot;brute facts,&quot; things that exist for no reason!  And he gets to define which facts are brute.

That does not seem to be very &quot;scientific,&quot; but it is useful to him because it is the only way he can completely eliminate God.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sean seems to advocate for a way of thinking that is more primitive than either rationalism or empiricism.  &#8220;It’s perfectly conceivable that the universe simply is that way, and there is no deeper explanation.&#8221;</p>
<p>He advocates for the existence of &#8220;brute facts,&#8221; things that exist for no reason!  And he gets to define which facts are brute.</p>
<p>That does not seem to be very &#8220;scientific,&#8221; but it is useful to him because it is the only way he can completely eliminate God.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Harrison</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/08/11/what-can-we-know-about-the-world-without-looking-at-it/comment-page-1/#comment-171797</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Harrison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Aug 2011 17:22:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=7336#comment-171797</guid>
		<description>Putting aside the philosophical question of what can or cannot be known about the universe by mere thinking, there is a historical question of the relative contributions of experiment and observation on the one hand and calculation and reasoning on the other.  In physics, at least, the verdict seems to incline to the rationalist side since most of the crucial episodes of  scientific revolution of the 17th and 18th Centuries revolved around conceptual innovations—people had been watching objects fall for a very long time before Galileo after all—and a great many of the decisive experiments were thought experiments. A similar story can be told about more recent developments such as relativity and quantum mechanics. The modern history of science can be defined by the rejection of positivist accounts of how things get figured out, not data up, but theory down. Nobody doubts you eventually have to get out of bed and interact with the world, and sciences such as biology or geology that have a heavy descriptive component obviously more empirical, but there is a pretty good historical case for the primacy of reason.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Putting aside the philosophical question of what can or cannot be known about the universe by mere thinking, there is a historical question of the relative contributions of experiment and observation on the one hand and calculation and reasoning on the other.  In physics, at least, the verdict seems to incline to the rationalist side since most of the crucial episodes of  scientific revolution of the 17th and 18th Centuries revolved around conceptual innovations—people had been watching objects fall for a very long time before Galileo after all—and a great many of the decisive experiments were thought experiments. A similar story can be told about more recent developments such as relativity and quantum mechanics. The modern history of science can be defined by the rejection of positivist accounts of how things get figured out, not data up, but theory down. Nobody doubts you eventually have to get out of bed and interact with the world, and sciences such as biology or geology that have a heavy descriptive component obviously more empirical, but there is a pretty good historical case for the primacy of reason.</p>
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