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	<title>Comments on: Bias, Bias Everywhere</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2012/10/08/bias-bias-everywhere/</link>
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		<title>By: Quantum Diaries: Women in physics: Are we there yet? &#171; Mostly physics</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2012/10/08/bias-bias-everywhere/#comment-78774</link>
		<dc:creator>Quantum Diaries: Women in physics: Are we there yet? &#171; Mostly physics</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Oct 2012 13:18:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=8896#comment-78774</guid>
		<description>[...] to favor the natural sciences and be more tolerant of the uncertain career prospects in academia, gender bias clearly is still an issue, as recently shown. The more women working in the field the better, says I. Share this:MoreLike [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] to favor the natural sciences and be more tolerant of the uncertain career prospects in academia, gender bias clearly is still an issue, as recently shown. The more women working in the field the better, says I. Share this:MoreLike [...] </p>
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		<title>By: Diversity</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2012/10/08/bias-bias-everywhere/#comment-78773</link>
		<dc:creator>Diversity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Oct 2012 07:08:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=8896#comment-78773</guid>
		<description>In surveys of psychologists a large portion of academics admitted to actively discriminating against conservatives in hiring, review, and tenure decisions:

http://yoelinbar.net/papers/political_diversity.pdf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In surveys of psychologists a large portion of academics admitted to actively discriminating against conservatives in hiring, review, and tenure decisions:</p>
<p><a href="http://yoelinbar.net/papers/political_diversity.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://yoelinbar.net/papers/political_diversity.pdf</a></p>
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		<title>By: Preconceitos em todos os lugares&#8230; menos por aqui &#124; True Singularity</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2012/10/08/bias-bias-everywhere/#comment-78772</link>
		<dc:creator>Preconceitos em todos os lugares&#8230; menos por aqui &#124; True Singularity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Oct 2012 18:09:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=8896#comment-78772</guid>
		<description>[...] semanas atrás o Cosmic Variance fez um post discutindo um artigo recente que explora o preconceito de gênero e étnico dentro da ciência. [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] semanas atrás o Cosmic Variance fez um post discutindo um artigo recente que explora o preconceito de gênero e étnico dentro da ciência. [...] </p>
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		<title>By: JesseB</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2012/10/08/bias-bias-everywhere/#comment-78771</link>
		<dc:creator>JesseB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Oct 2012 05:18:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=8896#comment-78771</guid>
		<description>Why is Fine Arts at the bottom of the chart?  It&#039;s the third most biased group in the study; it should be third from the top.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why is Fine Arts at the bottom of the chart?  It&#8217;s the third most biased group in the study; it should be third from the top.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2012/10/08/bias-bias-everywhere/#comment-78770</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2012 17:10:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=8896#comment-78770</guid>
		<description>Sean, since you state that &quot;the results pretty much speak for themselves,&quot; could you give us your thoughts on why there seems to be essentially no bias against Hispanic females in this study?  This makes me think there&#039;s something seriously wrong with the study.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sean, since you state that &#8220;the results pretty much speak for themselves,&#8221; could you give us your thoughts on why there seems to be essentially no bias against Hispanic females in this study?  This makes me think there&#8217;s something seriously wrong with the study.</p>
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		<title>By: ERose</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2012/10/08/bias-bias-everywhere/#comment-78769</link>
		<dc:creator>ERose</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Oct 2012 23:42:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=8896#comment-78769</guid>
		<description>@James -

I guess I&#039;d note the following - if members of any marginalized group explain the bias they personally face, there&#039;s always more than one person who insists that they are too intellectual to accept &quot;anecdata.&quot; So when someone attempts to find some harder data there is always that one guy who insists the study is just too flawed to be valid because it doesn&#039;t control for every &quot;what-if&quot; he can come up with.
Sure there is room to build on this work, to refine it and to investigate the conclusion further - that&#039;s the point of peer review. No one&#039;s asking you to accept this study as having every single answer on this topic, and it&#039;s intellectually lazy to engage with any scientific work only in that framework. The process of scientific study is a matter of gaining data one experiment at a time, and testing conclusions with subsequent experiments that approach the issue from a slightly different angle. That&#039;s actually the right way to do it.
Does this study seem to support the experiences that millions of individuals could and do describe? Yes. That&#039;s only one solid reason the issue merits further study. Another is that millions of individuals have described things like this for a very long time and we&#039;re only now getting around to looking for empirical data to convince people who don&#039;t want to hear them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@James -</p>
<p>I guess I&#8217;d note the following &#8211; if members of any marginalized group explain the bias they personally face, there&#8217;s always more than one person who insists that they are too intellectual to accept &#8220;anecdata.&#8221; So when someone attempts to find some harder data there is always that one guy who insists the study is just too flawed to be valid because it doesn&#8217;t control for every &#8220;what-if&#8221; he can come up with.<br />
Sure there is room to build on this work, to refine it and to investigate the conclusion further &#8211; that&#8217;s the point of peer review. No one&#8217;s asking you to accept this study as having every single answer on this topic, and it&#8217;s intellectually lazy to engage with any scientific work only in that framework. The process of scientific study is a matter of gaining data one experiment at a time, and testing conclusions with subsequent experiments that approach the issue from a slightly different angle. That&#8217;s actually the right way to do it.<br />
Does this study seem to support the experiences that millions of individuals could and do describe? Yes. That&#8217;s only one solid reason the issue merits further study. Another is that millions of individuals have described things like this for a very long time and we&#8217;re only now getting around to looking for empirical data to convince people who don&#8217;t want to hear them.</p>
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		<title>By: James Gallagher</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2012/10/08/bias-bias-everywhere/#comment-78768</link>
		<dc:creator>James Gallagher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Oct 2012 08:58:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=8896#comment-78768</guid>
		<description>@Charon #32

France has a policy that doesn&#039;t allow statistics based on racial criteria. There is at least one good reason for this (besides the good intentions not to label people). If you are going to allow publication/study of statistics based on racial criteria then they are  potentially misleading if you are BIASED in what types of  statistics you choose to (allow to) publish.

For instance, the above charts might suggest that Indians and Chinese  are not well represented at universities, when the opposite is the case. But trying to discuss with someone why asians dominate in Berkeley admissions will soon lead to politically sensitive areas that could end up getting you labelled (by colleagues) in a potentially damaging way.

There is bias everywhere, particularly in left-wing blogs and publications</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Charon #32</p>
<p>France has a policy that doesn&#8217;t allow statistics based on racial criteria. There is at least one good reason for this (besides the good intentions not to label people). If you are going to allow publication/study of statistics based on racial criteria then they are  potentially misleading if you are BIASED in what types of  statistics you choose to (allow to) publish.</p>
<p>For instance, the above charts might suggest that Indians and Chinese  are not well represented at universities, when the opposite is the case. But trying to discuss with someone why asians dominate in Berkeley admissions will soon lead to politically sensitive areas that could end up getting you labelled (by colleagues) in a potentially damaging way.</p>
<p>There is bias everywhere, particularly in left-wing blogs and publications</p>
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		<title>By: Phillip Helbig</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2012/10/08/bias-bias-everywhere/#comment-78767</link>
		<dc:creator>Phillip Helbig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Oct 2012 07:52:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=8896#comment-78767</guid>
		<description>&lt;I&gt;&quot;One thing to take note is that prospective students who are Indian or Chinese have historically been foreign students.&quot;&lt;/I&gt;

Indians are foreign?  They&#039;re Native Americans.  Oops, wrong Indians.  I actually thought it was talking about Indians as in Apache, Navajo, Choctaw etc.

And before someone accuses me of being politically incorrect, I&#039;m with Chris Eyre who said that &quot;Indians call Indians Indians&quot;.  (Full disclosure: I am part Indian.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;One thing to take note is that prospective students who are Indian or Chinese have historically been foreign students.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Indians are foreign?  They&#8217;re Native Americans.  Oops, wrong Indians.  I actually thought it was talking about Indians as in Apache, Navajo, Choctaw etc.</p>
<p>And before someone accuses me of being politically incorrect, I&#8217;m with Chris Eyre who said that &#8220;Indians call Indians Indians&#8221;.  (Full disclosure: I am part Indian.)</p>
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		<title>By: Charon</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2012/10/08/bias-bias-everywhere/#comment-78766</link>
		<dc:creator>Charon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Oct 2012 04:23:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=8896#comment-78766</guid>
		<description>@31: James, is it too much to ask you actually think about this? Experiments like this are useful because they isolate effects. Explaining why, say, blacks compose a substantially smaller proportion of the physics faculty at US universities than of the general population is a very difficult question with many factors. What studies like this show is that even controlling for many factors, there is &lt;i&gt;still&lt;/i&gt; a racial (and gender) bias. Studies that send out identical CVs for review are great this way. They take away all the arguments like &quot;blacks had inferior access to education K-12 which just propagates on&quot;, etc.

Every science became a real science the moment it learned to analyze simple systems first, and isolate interesting behavior before attempting more complex systems. Aristotle failed to get anything right in physics because he was trying to explain whole complicated systems at once (like you ask us to do). Galileo, on the other hand, succeeded because he said, &quot;ignoring air resistance and friction and the curvature of the Earth...&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@31: James, is it too much to ask you actually think about this? Experiments like this are useful because they isolate effects. Explaining why, say, blacks compose a substantially smaller proportion of the physics faculty at US universities than of the general population is a very difficult question with many factors. What studies like this show is that even controlling for many factors, there is <i>still</i> a racial (and gender) bias. Studies that send out identical CVs for review are great this way. They take away all the arguments like &#8220;blacks had inferior access to education K-12 which just propagates on&#8221;, etc.</p>
<p>Every science became a real science the moment it learned to analyze simple systems first, and isolate interesting behavior before attempting more complex systems. Aristotle failed to get anything right in physics because he was trying to explain whole complicated systems at once (like you ask us to do). Galileo, on the other hand, succeeded because he said, &#8220;ignoring air resistance and friction and the curvature of the Earth&#8230;&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: James Gallagher</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2012/10/08/bias-bias-everywhere/#comment-78765</link>
		<dc:creator>James Gallagher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Oct 2012 23:25:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/?p=8896#comment-78765</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s useful to idiots who want to create some stupid political agenda.

Reasonable people realise that you can&#039;t analyse society in this stupid manner the same way you can&#039;t analyse the weather in such a simple way (and make sensible predictions/conclusions)

Because it&#039;s much more complicated than these stupid graphs attempt to show.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s useful to idiots who want to create some stupid political agenda.</p>
<p>Reasonable people realise that you can&#8217;t analyse society in this stupid manner the same way you can&#8217;t analyse the weather in such a simple way (and make sensible predictions/conclusions)</p>
<p>Because it&#8217;s much more complicated than these stupid graphs attempt to show.</p>
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