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	<title>Comments on: Is Your Language Making You Broke and Fat? How Language Can Shape Thinking and Behavior (and How It Can&#8217;t)</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/2012/02/27/is-your-language-making-you-broke-and-fat-how-language-can-shape-thinking-and-behavior-and-how-it-cant/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/2012/02/27/is-your-language-making-you-broke-and-fat-how-language-can-shape-thinking-and-behavior-and-how-it-cant/</link>
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		<title>By: The Causes of Poverty (65): Grammar? &#124; P.a.p.-Blog, Human Rights Etc.</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/2012/02/27/is-your-language-making-you-broke-and-fat-how-language-can-shape-thinking-and-behavior-and-how-it-cant/#comment-761</link>
		<dc:creator>The Causes of Poverty (65): Grammar? &#124; P.a.p.-Blog, Human Rights Etc.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Sep 2012 11:23:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/?p=1121#comment-761</guid>
		<description>[...] Chen’s finding is that if you divide up a large number of the world’s languages into those that require a grammatical marker for future time and those that don’t, you see an interesting correlation: speakers of languages that force grammatical marking of the future have amassed a smaller retirement nest egg, smoke more, exercise less, and are more likely to be obese. Why would this be? The claim is that a sharp grammatical division between the present and future encourages people to conceive of the future as somehow dramatically different from the present, making it easier to put off behaviors that benefit your future self rather than your present self. (source) [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Chen’s finding is that if you divide up a large number of the world’s languages into those that require a grammatical marker for future time and those that don’t, you see an interesting correlation: speakers of languages that force grammatical marking of the future have amassed a smaller retirement nest egg, smoke more, exercise less, and are more likely to be obese. Why would this be? The claim is that a sharp grammatical division between the present and future encourages people to conceive of the future as somehow dramatically different from the present, making it easier to put off behaviors that benefit your future self rather than your present self. (source) [...] </p>
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		<title>By: Is Your Language Making You Fat? &#124; Aesthetics of Touch</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/2012/02/27/is-your-language-making-you-broke-and-fat-how-language-can-shape-thinking-and-behavior-and-how-it-cant/#comment-760</link>
		<dc:creator>Is Your Language Making You Fat? &#124; Aesthetics of Touch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 May 2012 21:28:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/?p=1121#comment-760</guid>
		<description>[...] unpublished paper suggests that our concept of the world can be affected by our language. For example, people with [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] unpublished paper suggests that our concept of the world can be affected by our language. For example, people with [...] </p>
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		<title>By: Raj</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/2012/02/27/is-your-language-making-you-broke-and-fat-how-language-can-shape-thinking-and-behavior-and-how-it-cant/#comment-759</link>
		<dc:creator>Raj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Mar 2012 17:11:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/?p=1121#comment-759</guid>
		<description>An interesting article in today&#039;s Gurdian -

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012/mar/15/language-cultural-daniel-everett-review</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An interesting article in today&#8217;s Gurdian -</p>
<p><a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012/mar/15/language-cultural-daniel-everett-review" rel="nofollow">http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012/mar/15/language-cultural-daniel-everett-review</a></p>
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		<title>By: Pippa</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/2012/02/27/is-your-language-making-you-broke-and-fat-how-language-can-shape-thinking-and-behavior-and-how-it-cant/#comment-758</link>
		<dc:creator>Pippa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Mar 2012 11:29:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/?p=1121#comment-758</guid>
		<description>Having worked as a psychiatrist and moved in different cultures I would suggest that language reflects culture and reinforces it, and the corollary is true. Complicating the matter, language and cultures constantly change. When I go &#039;home&#039; to my parents&#039; now I stick out because my culture, language and accent are out of date. Those of my family have evolved over the two decades that I have been away, the biggest changes being seen in my siblings and less being seen in my parents, who tend to have friends of their own age, ie in their 80&#039;s. So it seems most likely that the two are intertwined and interdependent; each influences the other. Dichotomies make for stimulating debate but rarely reflect reality in any aspect of human thought and behaviour.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having worked as a psychiatrist and moved in different cultures I would suggest that language reflects culture and reinforces it, and the corollary is true. Complicating the matter, language and cultures constantly change. When I go &#8216;home&#8217; to my parents&#8217; now I stick out because my culture, language and accent are out of date. Those of my family have evolved over the two decades that I have been away, the biggest changes being seen in my siblings and less being seen in my parents, who tend to have friends of their own age, ie in their 80&#8242;s. So it seems most likely that the two are intertwined and interdependent; each influences the other. Dichotomies make for stimulating debate but rarely reflect reality in any aspect of human thought and behaviour.</p>
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		<title>By: rebecca dremann</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/2012/02/27/is-your-language-making-you-broke-and-fat-how-language-can-shape-thinking-and-behavior-and-how-it-cant/#comment-757</link>
		<dc:creator>rebecca dremann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Mar 2012 06:52:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/?p=1121#comment-757</guid>
		<description>Que sera, sera ~ whatever will be, will be...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Que sera, sera ~ whatever will be, will be&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Nelida K.</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/2012/02/27/is-your-language-making-you-broke-and-fat-how-language-can-shape-thinking-and-behavior-and-how-it-cant/#comment-756</link>
		<dc:creator>Nelida K.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Mar 2012 22:54:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/?p=1121#comment-756</guid>
		<description>Chen&#039;s findings seem to me, to put it mildly, a bit slanted. And more than a bit off the mark. To imply that verb conjugation (that&#039;s what time-markers are, after all) is related to the way that a human group views its surrounding world, seems a bit farfetched and reaching for conclusions via generalization. 

For instance, in Spanish the simple future is - in its peninsular variety - indeed expressed through an ending marker: yo como, I eat; yo comeré, I will/shall eat. But in the South Cone (more precisely River Plate) variety, it&#039;s commonly expressed as: &quot;voy a comer&quot;. To say &quot;comeré&quot; in my part of the Continent, sounds affected and foreign. Speak like that and probably you&#039;ll get asked where you are from (and maybe elicit a smile or two). So, the future is expressed via a construction &quot;voy (ir=go in the PRESENT tense) +a + infinitive). Where is the ending-marker for the future here, pray? So here we have an instance that cancels that conclusion. Also, what about markers indicating past? Why are only the markers for future indicative of a people&#039;s character?

As to the &quot;accountability&quot; notion, which has been commented for Italy. Spanish doesn&#039;t have an exact word for this notion either, but that doesn&#039;t mean that it doesn&#039; have a translation for it that expresses the notion. Also in Spanish we have the word &quot;responsabilidad&quot;, which has been argued as not being the same as &quot;accountability&quot;. Not in and by itself, it isn&#039;t; but the expression &quot;responder ante&quot; pretty much expresses the meaning: &quot;Pedro es el responsable del Departamento de Policía y responde ante el Ministro del Interior&quot;. There: Pedro is the responsible party for the Police Department and accountable to, or before, the Minister of the Interior&quot;. You may even use other words for it: &quot;debe dar cuenta de sus actos&quot; is to be accountable for your actions. So you see, maybe you use more words (romance languages are wordier than English, a known fact) but the notions are there.

Just wanted to contribute my two cents on two points which were widely and more knowingly discussed by other readers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chen&#8217;s findings seem to me, to put it mildly, a bit slanted. And more than a bit off the mark. To imply that verb conjugation (that&#8217;s what time-markers are, after all) is related to the way that a human group views its surrounding world, seems a bit farfetched and reaching for conclusions via generalization. </p>
<p>For instance, in Spanish the simple future is &#8211; in its peninsular variety &#8211; indeed expressed through an ending marker: yo como, I eat; yo comeré, I will/shall eat. But in the South Cone (more precisely River Plate) variety, it&#8217;s commonly expressed as: &#8220;voy a comer&#8221;. To say &#8220;comeré&#8221; in my part of the Continent, sounds affected and foreign. Speak like that and probably you&#8217;ll get asked where you are from (and maybe elicit a smile or two). So, the future is expressed via a construction &#8220;voy (ir=go in the PRESENT tense) +a + infinitive). Where is the ending-marker for the future here, pray? So here we have an instance that cancels that conclusion. Also, what about markers indicating past? Why are only the markers for future indicative of a people&#8217;s character?</p>
<p>As to the &#8220;accountability&#8221; notion, which has been commented for Italy. Spanish doesn&#8217;t have an exact word for this notion either, but that doesn&#8217;t mean that it doesn&#8217; have a translation for it that expresses the notion. Also in Spanish we have the word &#8220;responsabilidad&#8221;, which has been argued as not being the same as &#8220;accountability&#8221;. Not in and by itself, it isn&#8217;t; but the expression &#8220;responder ante&#8221; pretty much expresses the meaning: &#8220;Pedro es el responsable del Departamento de Policía y responde ante el Ministro del Interior&#8221;. There: Pedro is the responsible party for the Police Department and accountable to, or before, the Minister of the Interior&#8221;. You may even use other words for it: &#8220;debe dar cuenta de sus actos&#8221; is to be accountable for your actions. So you see, maybe you use more words (romance languages are wordier than English, a known fact) but the notions are there.</p>
<p>Just wanted to contribute my two cents on two points which were widely and more knowingly discussed by other readers.</p>
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		<title>By: Julie Sedivy</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/2012/02/27/is-your-language-making-you-broke-and-fat-how-language-can-shape-thinking-and-behavior-and-how-it-cant/#comment-755</link>
		<dc:creator>Julie Sedivy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Mar 2012 16:08:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/?p=1121#comment-755</guid>
		<description>@ E Springer: You&#039;re absolutely right that no serious scholar today would propose that a language&#039;s lack of a word prevents speakers from imagining the related concept. The article doesn&#039;t attribute this particular belief to Chen, though perhaps I should have been clearer on this point. 

However, the &quot;straw man&quot; position &lt;em&gt;has&lt;/em&gt; in the past been taken as a serious scientific hypothesis. More to the point, it persists today in people&#039;s everyday ideas about language, and also, very commonly in the media. The goal of the article was not to specifically provide a review of Chen&#039;s findings, but to put these findings into a broader context for the general reader. (As noted in previous comments, more detailed scholarly remarks on the paper can be found in the various discussions on Language Log). And that broader context, in my opinion, leads to the conclusion that it would be surprising if in fact grammatical differences were at the heart of the very large behavioral differences that Chen reports.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ E Springer: You&#8217;re absolutely right that no serious scholar today would propose that a language&#8217;s lack of a word prevents speakers from imagining the related concept. The article doesn&#8217;t attribute this particular belief to Chen, though perhaps I should have been clearer on this point. </p>
<p>However, the &#8220;straw man&#8221; position <em>has</em> in the past been taken as a serious scientific hypothesis. More to the point, it persists today in people&#8217;s everyday ideas about language, and also, very commonly in the media. The goal of the article was not to specifically provide a review of Chen&#8217;s findings, but to put these findings into a broader context for the general reader. (As noted in previous comments, more detailed scholarly remarks on the paper can be found in the various discussions on Language Log). And that broader context, in my opinion, leads to the conclusion that it would be surprising if in fact grammatical differences were at the heart of the very large behavioral differences that Chen reports.</p>
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		<title>By: E Springer</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/2012/02/27/is-your-language-making-you-broke-and-fat-how-language-can-shape-thinking-and-behavior-and-how-it-cant/#comment-754</link>
		<dc:creator>E Springer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Mar 2012 21:56:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/?p=1121#comment-754</guid>
		<description>To follow up: I concede that Sedivy&#039;s criticism of Chen&#039;s research &quot;result&quot; is reasonable -- at least if the body of Chen&#039;s article continues in the &quot;correlation equals causation&quot; tone of its abstract. 

So, my objection is that that *this* fallacy (mistaking correlation for causation) is no reason to be generally suspicious of research into the complex interplay of language and cognition.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To follow up: I concede that Sedivy&#8217;s criticism of Chen&#8217;s research &#8220;result&#8221; is reasonable &#8212; at least if the body of Chen&#8217;s article continues in the &#8220;correlation equals causation&#8221; tone of its abstract. </p>
<p>So, my objection is that that *this* fallacy (mistaking correlation for causation) is no reason to be generally suspicious of research into the complex interplay of language and cognition.</p>
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		<title>By: E Springer</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/2012/02/27/is-your-language-making-you-broke-and-fat-how-language-can-shape-thinking-and-behavior-and-how-it-cant/#comment-753</link>
		<dc:creator>E Springer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Mar 2012 21:40:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/?p=1121#comment-753</guid>
		<description>I find the above article to be uncharitable, and not a credit to Discover magazine. A previous commenter writes &quot;cheeky&quot;, but I prefer to draw attention to what&#039;s misleading about it. The author makes it sound as though some scholar actually believes that a language&#039;s lack of a dedicated word (say, for such-and-such a silk shirt worn just so) prevents speakers from imagining such a thing.

Refuting that hypothesis is easy; but it&#039;s a straw man attack. The claim has never been that language draws a neat box around what people can describe and imagine, but rather that it helps to shape our cognitive habits -- our perceptions, assumptions, associations, and priorities. Further, the claim (at least, among responsible scholars) has never been that the relationship is casually linear; language is dynamically shaped, in turn, by the shifting concerns and associative habits of speaker-populations. Linguistic difference, whatever the directions of causal interplay, illuminate different ways of inhabiting the world. Granted, some writers may exaggerate these differences; but a scholarly interest in this difference does not merit dismissive ridicule.

For intriguing discussion, see this alternative discussion: http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/boroditsky09/boroditsky09_index.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find the above article to be uncharitable, and not a credit to Discover magazine. A previous commenter writes &#8220;cheeky&#8221;, but I prefer to draw attention to what&#8217;s misleading about it. The author makes it sound as though some scholar actually believes that a language&#8217;s lack of a dedicated word (say, for such-and-such a silk shirt worn just so) prevents speakers from imagining such a thing.</p>
<p>Refuting that hypothesis is easy; but it&#8217;s a straw man attack. The claim has never been that language draws a neat box around what people can describe and imagine, but rather that it helps to shape our cognitive habits &#8212; our perceptions, assumptions, associations, and priorities. Further, the claim (at least, among responsible scholars) has never been that the relationship is casually linear; language is dynamically shaped, in turn, by the shifting concerns and associative habits of speaker-populations. Linguistic difference, whatever the directions of causal interplay, illuminate different ways of inhabiting the world. Granted, some writers may exaggerate these differences; but a scholarly interest in this difference does not merit dismissive ridicule.</p>
<p>For intriguing discussion, see this alternative discussion: <a href="http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/boroditsky09/boroditsky09_index.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/boroditsky09/boroditsky09_index.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: richard</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/2012/02/27/is-your-language-making-you-broke-and-fat-how-language-can-shape-thinking-and-behavior-and-how-it-cant/#comment-752</link>
		<dc:creator>richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Mar 2012 09:22:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/?p=1121#comment-752</guid>
		<description>Another example of how language reflects character and personality is, for instance, the phrase most common used to express acknowledgment in English is: I think so! In Spanish it is: Yo creo que si. Now creo is to believe with the force GOD gives with faith; to think is to believe with the personal force of OUR thinking brain.As I see it subtle differences in what words are used in any given culture will also give insights of there personalities and character.  I have noticed that cultures who subscribe and educate their children with statements of truth, such as &quot;curiosity killed the cat&quot; suppresses intellectual development. Curiosity is Intelligence&#039;s main nutrient!  When I taught in S. America, I constantly had to point out the difference between nosiness curious and knowledge curious to get them to do pure investigation just out of curiosity. This was a unacceptable behavior so ingrained, it affected their pursuit of knowledge.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another example of how language reflects character and personality is, for instance, the phrase most common used to express acknowledgment in English is: I think so! In Spanish it is: Yo creo que si. Now creo is to believe with the force GOD gives with faith; to think is to believe with the personal force of OUR thinking brain.As I see it subtle differences in what words are used in any given culture will also give insights of there personalities and character.  I have noticed that cultures who subscribe and educate their children with statements of truth, such as &#8220;curiosity killed the cat&#8221; suppresses intellectual development. Curiosity is Intelligence&#8217;s main nutrient!  When I taught in S. America, I constantly had to point out the difference between nosiness curious and knowledge curious to get them to do pure investigation just out of curiosity. This was a unacceptable behavior so ingrained, it affected their pursuit of knowledge.</p>
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