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	<title>Comments on: Cut the Penis, Cut the Risk: Why Circumcision Is A Good Choice</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/2012/08/31/cut-the-penis-cut-the-risk-why-circumcision-is-a-good-choice/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/2012/08/31/cut-the-penis-cut-the-risk-why-circumcision-is-a-good-choice/</link>
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		<title>By: KL</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/2012/08/31/cut-the-penis-cut-the-risk-why-circumcision-is-a-good-choice/#comment-2445</link>
		<dc:creator>KL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2013 19:26:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/?p=2245#comment-2445</guid>
		<description>This article is again, an example of American ignorance, ethnocentricity and self-delusion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This article is again, an example of American ignorance, ethnocentricity and self-delusion.</p>
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		<title>By: Kingsley</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/2012/08/31/cut-the-penis-cut-the-risk-why-circumcision-is-a-good-choice/#comment-1995</link>
		<dc:creator>Kingsley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Oct 2012 06:22:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/?p=2245#comment-1995</guid>
		<description>I am willing to wager that the author of this pap is a circumcision fetishist and a pathological liar.

The African studies that are so beloved of, and conducted by fetishists are so flawed they are nothing more than scientific fraud.

The AAP is nothing more than a trade association.  It&#039;s only concern is the profits of it&#039;s &#039;stakeholders&#039;.

Nobody has a right to another persons body for any reason.  Forced genital cutting of a minor is a gross human rights abuse and anybody who is unable to understand this fails the humanity test.

Any adult who has this done to their son is an unfit parent.  I was mutilated as a baby and I resent what was done to me.  I am now middle aged and sex for me is *not* OK.

Julie - September 6th, 2012 at 12:26 am
The option of leaving it up to men to decide for themselves is unacceptable to the fetishists.  They get sexual gratification from the act of cutting genitals and since only a tiny minority of seriously mentally unbalanced men would opt for circumcision it has to be forced on infants and children who can&#039;t object.

Finally, below is a comment by a woman I found elsewhere regarding the circumcision fetishists mindset and their pathological lying:

&quot;In and of itself there is nothing at all erotic about the lie.  They don&#039;t believe the lies they spread, they know they are lies but they know that certain people are vulnerable to believing those lies and when they do they cut the penises of their own babies.  Having a hand in the sale that results in a circumcision is the fetishist&#039;s erotic thrill. It&#039;s a game to them, a kinky game that results in the agony of infants. It&#039;s just a twisted mind f**k game.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am willing to wager that the author of this pap is a circumcision fetishist and a pathological liar.</p>
<p>The African studies that are so beloved of, and conducted by fetishists are so flawed they are nothing more than scientific fraud.</p>
<p>The AAP is nothing more than a trade association.  It&#8217;s only concern is the profits of it&#8217;s &#8216;stakeholders&#8217;.</p>
<p>Nobody has a right to another persons body for any reason.  Forced genital cutting of a minor is a gross human rights abuse and anybody who is unable to understand this fails the humanity test.</p>
<p>Any adult who has this done to their son is an unfit parent.  I was mutilated as a baby and I resent what was done to me.  I am now middle aged and sex for me is *not* OK.</p>
<p>Julie &#8211; September 6th, 2012 at 12:26 am<br />
The option of leaving it up to men to decide for themselves is unacceptable to the fetishists.  They get sexual gratification from the act of cutting genitals and since only a tiny minority of seriously mentally unbalanced men would opt for circumcision it has to be forced on infants and children who can&#8217;t object.</p>
<p>Finally, below is a comment by a woman I found elsewhere regarding the circumcision fetishists mindset and their pathological lying:</p>
<p>&#8220;In and of itself there is nothing at all erotic about the lie.  They don&#8217;t believe the lies they spread, they know they are lies but they know that certain people are vulnerable to believing those lies and when they do they cut the penises of their own babies.  Having a hand in the sale that results in a circumcision is the fetishist&#8217;s erotic thrill. It&#8217;s a game to them, a kinky game that results in the agony of infants. It&#8217;s just a twisted mind f**k game.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Mookie</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/2012/08/31/cut-the-penis-cut-the-risk-why-circumcision-is-a-good-choice/#comment-1994</link>
		<dc:creator>Mookie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Sep 2012 23:38:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/?p=2245#comment-1994</guid>
		<description>Increased sensitivity in the glans is not &quot;what ever advantage.&quot; Pleasure is the ONLY thing that matters in life!!!!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Increased sensitivity in the glans is not &#8220;what ever advantage.&#8221; Pleasure is the ONLY thing that matters in life!!!!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/2012/08/31/cut-the-penis-cut-the-risk-why-circumcision-is-a-good-choice/#comment-1993</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Sep 2012 18:23:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/?p=2245#comment-1993</guid>
		<description>1) All that uncircumcised, non-monogamous men have to do to avoid contracting HIV is to keep their &quot;highly receptive HIV target cells&quot; covered with a condom. If there is an alternative to surgical intervention, isn&#039;t the rule to use it first?

2) Can we at least develop some standardized rules about what parents can do to their children in the name of their personal beliefs? If Jews and Muslims can circumcise their babies, then why can&#039;t a white supremacist tattoo a swastika on their infant&#039;s forehead? (Or to compare apples to apples, their groin area?) Both sets of parents have strong beliefs and presumably have the right to inculcate them in their child without its consent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1) All that uncircumcised, non-monogamous men have to do to avoid contracting HIV is to keep their &#8220;highly receptive HIV target cells&#8221; covered with a condom. If there is an alternative to surgical intervention, isn&#8217;t the rule to use it first?</p>
<p>2) Can we at least develop some standardized rules about what parents can do to their children in the name of their personal beliefs? If Jews and Muslims can circumcise their babies, then why can&#8217;t a white supremacist tattoo a swastika on their infant&#8217;s forehead? (Or to compare apples to apples, their groin area?) Both sets of parents have strong beliefs and presumably have the right to inculcate them in their child without its consent.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Hawkins</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/2012/08/31/cut-the-penis-cut-the-risk-why-circumcision-is-a-good-choice/#comment-1992</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Hawkins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Sep 2012 06:32:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/?p=2245#comment-1992</guid>
		<description>Mr. Bering, I have updated my link to reflect 1) that my post does not support your contention about PZ making this a religious/cultural issue and 2) that you are not clear in which &quot;outspoken atheist blogger&quot; you mean. That is the best I can do until you correct your mistake.

&lt;strong&gt;Ed: Link now goes to Myers&#039; blog. &lt;/strong&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Bering, I have updated my link to reflect 1) that my post does not support your contention about PZ making this a religious/cultural issue and 2) that you are not clear in which &#8220;outspoken atheist blogger&#8221; you mean. That is the best I can do until you correct your mistake.</p>
<p><strong>Ed: Link now goes to Myers&#8217; blog. </strong></p>
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		<title>By: Joseph4GI</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/2012/08/31/cut-the-penis-cut-the-risk-why-circumcision-is-a-good-choice/#comment-1991</link>
		<dc:creator>Joseph4GI</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Sep 2012 21:04:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/?p=2245#comment-1991</guid>
		<description>This article is pure tripe. It&#039;s pure opinion that Jesse Bering, and a few others present, are trying to clothe with &quot;science.&quot;

Let&#039;s first begin with this author&#039;s bias.

&quot;The [womb] that I bathed in, the place in which I had my “bones and sinews knitted together,” in the words of Job, was the property of a Jew.&quot;

Jesse Bering has more than one reason to have a strong bias in favor of circumcision. He is of course circumcised, and he comes from a culture where having a foreskin is viewed with disdain. It is surprising to me he has remained with his lover from Mexico. Perhaps he hopes to convince him to part with his foreskin in the future, using the so-called &quot;evidence?&quot;

It is no surprise, then, that he cheerleads the AAP in this piece of pro-circumcision pablum.

What&#039;s interesting to me is how selectively he quotes the AAP. While he repeats much of the nonsense regarding the so-called &quot;medical benefits,&quot; he seems to have missed the part that says that &quot;...health benefits are not great enough to recommend routine circumcision for all male newborns.&quot;

So, I&#039;m not sure what the big hullabaloo is with Bering praising the AAP. It must be that they said positive things about the kind of penis that hangs between his legs, and the historically problematic Jewish &quot;tradition&quot; that caused it.

The culmination that was the latest policy statement on circumcision by the AAP can be summarized to this: 5 years of mulling it over, and &quot;We don&#039;t recommend it, but it should still be an option for brainwashed parents, and the state should flip the bill.&quot; was the best the AAP could do? Seriously? Mr. Burns put it the best: &quot;Spicy, yet spineless.&quot;

The confusing policy statement raises a few questions, as does this very article. How is it the AAP couldn&#039;t bring itself to recommend infant circumcision, but it should be this &quot;option&quot; for parents which the state and insurance companies should cover?

How is it parents are supposed to weigh the same &quot;evidence&quot; that health professionals at the AAP couldn&#039;t use to endorse circumcision, and somehow come up with a more reasonable conclusion?

Without any medical or clinical indication, can a doctor even be performing surgery in healthy, non-consenting minors, let alone be giving their parents any kind of a &quot;choice?&quot;

For a medical board so concerned with a child&#039;s future sex life as a man, why is it they didn&#039;t even talk about other options he may have for protection? The word &quot;condom&quot; does not appear once in either the policy statement, nor the technical report. Somehow circumcision is supposed to be the only option, or I&#039;m led to believe.

Why wasn&#039;t the foreskin, its function, its parts etc. not discussed at all? Bering says it was, but he is either oblivious to this, or he is knowingly lying. Perhaps the policy satisfied his requirements of talking about the function and mechanics of the foreskin, which is not to talk about it at all?

The new AAP policy statement on circumcision raises many questions, but Bering does not make any effort to ask them.

Which raises new questions; why is it Discover decided to come to Bering for any insight on the new AAP statement?

Who IS Bering? Is he a medical doctor of any kind? A surgeon? A urologist? A pediatrician? An epidemiologist?

Just what makes his word on what the AAP has to say of any value?

At the very least, why didn&#039;t Discover have a dissenting voice write?

While Bering commits argumentum ad verecundiam, he seems to be oblivious to the fact that the AAP stands alone in stating &quot;the benefits outweigh the risks.&quot;

The trend of opinion on routine male circumcision is overwhelmingly negative in industrialized nations. No respected medical board in the world recommends circumcision for infants, not even in the name of HIV prevention. They must all point to the risks, and they must all state that there is no convincing evidence that the benefits outweigh these risks. To do otherwise would be to take an unfounded position against the best medical authorities of the West, as the AAP has today.

Discover couldn&#039;t find a more inept person to address this issue. All Bering offers is pure one-sided, biased opinion which he poorly veils with carefully-selected &quot;research.&quot; It is obvious he only chose the parts of the AAP statement that he liked.

While he would like to emphasize the so-called &quot;health-benefits&quot; of circumcision, when all is said and done, the AAP statement still says the &quot;...health benefits are not great enough to recommend routine circumcision for all male newborns.&quot;

It raises the question as to why, even though the AAP can&#039;t bring itself to &quot;recommend&quot; circumcision, it still insists parents should have &quot;access&quot; to it, and the state should fork over the cash.

I posit that the AAP would like to have its cake and eat it too. While it does not want to go against the world consensus that there isn&#039;t enough evidence to endorse infant circumcision, it still would like to justify the actions of its &quot;fellows,&quot; a great majority of which profit from the act.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This article is pure tripe. It&#8217;s pure opinion that Jesse Bering, and a few others present, are trying to clothe with &#8220;science.&#8221;</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s first begin with this author&#8217;s bias.</p>
<p>&#8220;The [womb] that I bathed in, the place in which I had my “bones and sinews knitted together,” in the words of Job, was the property of a Jew.&#8221;</p>
<p>Jesse Bering has more than one reason to have a strong bias in favor of circumcision. He is of course circumcised, and he comes from a culture where having a foreskin is viewed with disdain. It is surprising to me he has remained with his lover from Mexico. Perhaps he hopes to convince him to part with his foreskin in the future, using the so-called &#8220;evidence?&#8221;</p>
<p>It is no surprise, then, that he cheerleads the AAP in this piece of pro-circumcision pablum.</p>
<p>What&#8217;s interesting to me is how selectively he quotes the AAP. While he repeats much of the nonsense regarding the so-called &#8220;medical benefits,&#8221; he seems to have missed the part that says that &#8220;&#8230;health benefits are not great enough to recommend routine circumcision for all male newborns.&#8221;</p>
<p>So, I&#8217;m not sure what the big hullabaloo is with Bering praising the AAP. It must be that they said positive things about the kind of penis that hangs between his legs, and the historically problematic Jewish &#8220;tradition&#8221; that caused it.</p>
<p>The culmination that was the latest policy statement on circumcision by the AAP can be summarized to this: 5 years of mulling it over, and &#8220;We don&#8217;t recommend it, but it should still be an option for brainwashed parents, and the state should flip the bill.&#8221; was the best the AAP could do? Seriously? Mr. Burns put it the best: &#8220;Spicy, yet spineless.&#8221;</p>
<p>The confusing policy statement raises a few questions, as does this very article. How is it the AAP couldn&#8217;t bring itself to recommend infant circumcision, but it should be this &#8220;option&#8221; for parents which the state and insurance companies should cover?</p>
<p>How is it parents are supposed to weigh the same &#8220;evidence&#8221; that health professionals at the AAP couldn&#8217;t use to endorse circumcision, and somehow come up with a more reasonable conclusion?</p>
<p>Without any medical or clinical indication, can a doctor even be performing surgery in healthy, non-consenting minors, let alone be giving their parents any kind of a &#8220;choice?&#8221;</p>
<p>For a medical board so concerned with a child&#8217;s future sex life as a man, why is it they didn&#8217;t even talk about other options he may have for protection? The word &#8220;condom&#8221; does not appear once in either the policy statement, nor the technical report. Somehow circumcision is supposed to be the only option, or I&#8217;m led to believe.</p>
<p>Why wasn&#8217;t the foreskin, its function, its parts etc. not discussed at all? Bering says it was, but he is either oblivious to this, or he is knowingly lying. Perhaps the policy satisfied his requirements of talking about the function and mechanics of the foreskin, which is not to talk about it at all?</p>
<p>The new AAP policy statement on circumcision raises many questions, but Bering does not make any effort to ask them.</p>
<p>Which raises new questions; why is it Discover decided to come to Bering for any insight on the new AAP statement?</p>
<p>Who IS Bering? Is he a medical doctor of any kind? A surgeon? A urologist? A pediatrician? An epidemiologist?</p>
<p>Just what makes his word on what the AAP has to say of any value?</p>
<p>At the very least, why didn&#8217;t Discover have a dissenting voice write?</p>
<p>While Bering commits argumentum ad verecundiam, he seems to be oblivious to the fact that the AAP stands alone in stating &#8220;the benefits outweigh the risks.&#8221;</p>
<p>The trend of opinion on routine male circumcision is overwhelmingly negative in industrialized nations. No respected medical board in the world recommends circumcision for infants, not even in the name of HIV prevention. They must all point to the risks, and they must all state that there is no convincing evidence that the benefits outweigh these risks. To do otherwise would be to take an unfounded position against the best medical authorities of the West, as the AAP has today.</p>
<p>Discover couldn&#8217;t find a more inept person to address this issue. All Bering offers is pure one-sided, biased opinion which he poorly veils with carefully-selected &#8220;research.&#8221; It is obvious he only chose the parts of the AAP statement that he liked.</p>
<p>While he would like to emphasize the so-called &#8220;health-benefits&#8221; of circumcision, when all is said and done, the AAP statement still says the &#8220;&#8230;health benefits are not great enough to recommend routine circumcision for all male newborns.&#8221;</p>
<p>It raises the question as to why, even though the AAP can&#8217;t bring itself to &#8220;recommend&#8221; circumcision, it still insists parents should have &#8220;access&#8221; to it, and the state should fork over the cash.</p>
<p>I posit that the AAP would like to have its cake and eat it too. While it does not want to go against the world consensus that there isn&#8217;t enough evidence to endorse infant circumcision, it still would like to justify the actions of its &#8220;fellows,&#8221; a great majority of which profit from the act.</p>
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		<title>By: Kelev</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/2012/08/31/cut-the-penis-cut-the-risk-why-circumcision-is-a-good-choice/#comment-1990</link>
		<dc:creator>Kelev</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Sep 2012 16:53:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/?p=2245#comment-1990</guid>
		<description>Well, circumcision sure hasn&#039;t &quot;cut the risk&quot; for men in the United States. Despite (or because of) the fact that the US has the highest rate of circumcision in the western world, the US also has the highest rate of HIV and other STDs (as well as infant mortality and medical costs) -- far higher than in Europe where circumcision is rare. If there was anywhere that circumcision was going to work, it would have been in the US after generations of near-universal circumcision. Instead you see just the opposite.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, circumcision sure hasn&#8217;t &#8220;cut the risk&#8221; for men in the United States. Despite (or because of) the fact that the US has the highest rate of circumcision in the western world, the US also has the highest rate of HIV and other STDs (as well as infant mortality and medical costs) &#8212; far higher than in Europe where circumcision is rare. If there was anywhere that circumcision was going to work, it would have been in the US after generations of near-universal circumcision. Instead you see just the opposite.</p>
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		<title>By: Choose Intact &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Flawed Circumcision Defense: Jesse Bering</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/2012/08/31/cut-the-penis-cut-the-risk-why-circumcision-is-a-good-choice/#comment-1989</link>
		<dc:creator>Choose Intact &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Flawed Circumcision Defense: Jesse Bering</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2012 20:26:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/?p=2245#comment-1989</guid>
		<description>[...] Jesse Bering, PhD, endorses the AAP&#8217;s revised policy statement on non-therapeutic male child circumcision. He asks readers to replace the God he doesn&#8217;t believe in with the god he does believe in. He starts with some introduction about himself being circumcised, while his partner is intact. He then writes: [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Jesse Bering, PhD, endorses the AAP&#8217;s revised policy statement on non-therapeutic male child circumcision. He asks readers to replace the God he doesn&#8217;t believe in with the god he does believe in. He starts with some introduction about himself being circumcised, while his partner is intact. He then writes: [...] </p>
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		<title>By: Sten</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/2012/08/31/cut-the-penis-cut-the-risk-why-circumcision-is-a-good-choice/#comment-1988</link>
		<dc:creator>Sten</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2012 10:12:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/?p=2245#comment-1988</guid>
		<description>Well Adam Jacobs, it may not have been dealt with &quot;comprehensively&quot; (the female circumcision comparison) in the statements above but it has been elsewhere. I did refer to it in my first post and Jesse Bering did make mention of it in his article - &quot;cruel and unnecessary ritual act against little boys that is just as abhorrent as female clitoridectomy&quot; - just to illustrate what a fallacious argument this is. This, however, is about as good as it gets from the anti circumcision zealots.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well Adam Jacobs, it may not have been dealt with &#8220;comprehensively&#8221; (the female circumcision comparison) in the statements above but it has been elsewhere. I did refer to it in my first post and Jesse Bering did make mention of it in his article &#8211; &#8220;cruel and unnecessary ritual act against little boys that is just as abhorrent as female clitoridectomy&#8221; &#8211; just to illustrate what a fallacious argument this is. This, however, is about as good as it gets from the anti circumcision zealots.</p>
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		<title>By: rg7890</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/2012/08/31/cut-the-penis-cut-the-risk-why-circumcision-is-a-good-choice/#comment-1987</link>
		<dc:creator>rg7890</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2012 04:44:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/?p=2245#comment-1987</guid>
		<description>As a circumcised male, I strongly resent many of the comments by the anti-circumcision crowd. It seems they have never spoken to one circumcised male about this supposedly horrific event. I have absolutely no recollection of any trauma, no lack of sexual pleasure, no sense of mutilation, NOTHING at all to suggest there is or was anything bad about being circumcised. There is absolutely no justification to compare this procedure, which typically has NO effect on a male&#039;s life, to the true horror of female mutilation. Please stop exploiting the torture suffered by those girls to further your case! As for having it done as an adult, of course I wouldn&#039;t want to do it now! That&#039;s why I&#039;m thankful it was done as a newborn. As far as I can tell, it was a non-event...it seems in every sense that I was just born this way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a circumcised male, I strongly resent many of the comments by the anti-circumcision crowd. It seems they have never spoken to one circumcised male about this supposedly horrific event. I have absolutely no recollection of any trauma, no lack of sexual pleasure, no sense of mutilation, NOTHING at all to suggest there is or was anything bad about being circumcised. There is absolutely no justification to compare this procedure, which typically has NO effect on a male&#8217;s life, to the true horror of female mutilation. Please stop exploiting the torture suffered by those girls to further your case! As for having it done as an adult, of course I wouldn&#8217;t want to do it now! That&#8217;s why I&#8217;m thankful it was done as a newborn. As far as I can tell, it was a non-event&#8230;it seems in every sense that I was just born this way.</p>
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