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	<title>Comments on: Nocebo Doubt About It: &quot;Wind Turbine Syndrome&quot; Is Catching</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/2012/10/23/nocebo-doubt-about-it-wind-turbine-syndrome-is-catching/</link>
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		<title>By: Mike Barnard</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/2012/10/23/nocebo-doubt-about-it-wind-turbine-syndrome-is-catching/#comment-2471</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Barnard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Mar 2013 07:50:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/?p=2496#comment-2471</guid>
		<description>No, actually some very shoddy and sensationalist work was done on this, but none of it stands the test of time.

For the full story on low-frequency and infrasound, please see this material:http://barnardonwind.wordpress.com/2013/02/20/humans-evolved-with-infrasound-is-there-any-truth-to-health-concerns-about-it/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, actually some very shoddy and sensationalist work was done on this, but none of it stands the test of time.</p>
<p>For the full story on low-frequency and infrasound, please see this material:<a href="http://barnardonwind.wordpress.com/2013/02/20/humans-evolved-with-infrasound-is-there-any-truth-to-health-concerns-about-it/" rel="nofollow">http://barnardonwind.wordpress.com/2013/02/20/humans-evolved-with-infrasound-is-there-any-truth-to-health-concerns-about-it/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Mike Barnard</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/2012/10/23/nocebo-doubt-about-it-wind-turbine-syndrome-is-catching/#comment-2470</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Barnard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Mar 2013 07:48:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/?p=2496#comment-2470</guid>
		<description>BSTS is non-registered hobby journal by an Associate Professor of &#039;cross-disciplinary studies&#039; at UofT. The articles in that issue don&#039;t pass the basic tests of research papers: documented methodology, clear results, replicability. It&#039;s not even worth debunking them individually.

The Hanning piece in BMJ was a guest editorial, not a peer-reviewed article. Once again, no methodology, data or replicability.

Pedersen has done significant peer-reviewed research on wind energy and noise annoyance. Her studies included the key major study that showed strong correlation between annoyance and two factors: visibility of the wind farm and lack of revenue from the wind farm.  Basically people who could see it and weren&#039;t getting money from it were annoyed by the noise.  I find it amusing that the Society for Wind Vigilance doesn&#039;t see fit to include all of Pedersen&#039;s work in its list, just the one it can cherry pick the right conclusions from.



Shepherd&#039;s work is equally frail.


Care to try again?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BSTS is non-registered hobby journal by an Associate Professor of &#8216;cross-disciplinary studies&#8217; at UofT. The articles in that issue don&#8217;t pass the basic tests of research papers: documented methodology, clear results, replicability. It&#8217;s not even worth debunking them individually.</p>
<p>The Hanning piece in BMJ was a guest editorial, not a peer-reviewed article. Once again, no methodology, data or replicability.</p>
<p>Pedersen has done significant peer-reviewed research on wind energy and noise annoyance. Her studies included the key major study that showed strong correlation between annoyance and two factors: visibility of the wind farm and lack of revenue from the wind farm.  Basically people who could see it and weren&#8217;t getting money from it were annoyed by the noise.  I find it amusing that the Society for Wind Vigilance doesn&#8217;t see fit to include all of Pedersen&#8217;s work in its list, just the one it can cherry pick the right conclusions from.</p>
<p>Shepherd&#8217;s work is equally frail.</p>
<p>Care to try again?</p>
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		<title>By: aligatorhardt</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/2012/10/23/nocebo-doubt-about-it-wind-turbine-syndrome-is-catching/#comment-2466</link>
		<dc:creator>aligatorhardt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Mar 2013 08:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/?p=2496#comment-2466</guid>
		<description>The article states 17 major studies that show there is no physical evidence of harm from wind turbines.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The article states 17 major studies that show there is no physical evidence of harm from wind turbines.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Smith</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/2012/10/23/nocebo-doubt-about-it-wind-turbine-syndrome-is-catching/#comment-2465</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2013 16:15:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/?p=2496#comment-2465</guid>
		<description>So all they have to do is turn the wind turbines off? Seems straightforward to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So all they have to do is turn the wind turbines off? Seems straightforward to me.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Smith</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/2012/10/23/nocebo-doubt-about-it-wind-turbine-syndrome-is-catching/#comment-2464</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2013 16:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/?p=2496#comment-2464</guid>
		<description>This is the conclusion from the report - no misrepresentation of any kind. 


The Tribunal has found that the Appellants have not met the legal test set out in section
145.2.1(2)(a) of the EPA and the appeals must, therefore, be dismissed. The Director’s
decision on the REA is, therefore, confirmed pursuant to section 145.2.1(5). While there are
certainly legitimate concerns and uncertainties about the effects of wind turbines on human
health, the Tribunal cannot conclude that engaging in the Kent Breeze Project as approved will
cause serious harm to human health according to the evidence tendered in this Hearing. The
Tribunal notes that the research in this area is at quite an early stage and that our collective
understanding of the impacts of wind turbines on human health will likely progress as further
research and analysis is undertaken.
			
While the Appellants were not successful in their appeals, the Tribunal notes that their
involvement and that of the Respondents, has served to advance the state of the debate about
wind turbines and human health. This case has successfully shown that the debate should not
be simplified to one about whether wind turbines can cause harm to humans. The evidence
presented to the Tribunal demonstrates that they can, if facilities are placed too close to
residents. The debate has now evolved to one of degree. The question that should be asked
is: What protections, such as permissible noise levels or setback distances, are appropriate to
protect human health? In Ontario, recent regulations have provided guidance in that regard. In
cases such as this, where the Appellants have not sought to demonstrate any type of unique
harm associated with the design of this Project and have not attempted to demonstrate the
sensitivity of a particular receptor, it was essentially up to the Appellants to prove that the
Ontario standards are wrong in the context of the specific Project under appeal (leaving aside
the related question about possible non-compliance with the standards). Just because the
Appellants have not succeeded in their appeals, that is no excuse to close the book on further
research. On the contrary, further research should help resolve some of the significant
questions that the Appellants have raised.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is the conclusion from the report &#8211; no misrepresentation of any kind. </p>
<p>The Tribunal has found that the Appellants have not met the legal test set out in section<br />
145.2.1(2)(a) of the EPA and the appeals must, therefore, be dismissed. The Director’s<br />
decision on the REA is, therefore, confirmed pursuant to section 145.2.1(5). While there are<br />
certainly legitimate concerns and uncertainties about the effects of wind turbines on human<br />
health, the Tribunal cannot conclude that engaging in the Kent Breeze Project as approved will<br />
cause serious harm to human health according to the evidence tendered in this Hearing. The<br />
Tribunal notes that the research in this area is at quite an early stage and that our collective<br />
understanding of the impacts of wind turbines on human health will likely progress as further<br />
research and analysis is undertaken.</p>
<p>While the Appellants were not successful in their appeals, the Tribunal notes that their<br />
involvement and that of the Respondents, has served to advance the state of the debate about<br />
wind turbines and human health. This case has successfully shown that the debate should not<br />
be simplified to one about whether wind turbines can cause harm to humans. The evidence<br />
presented to the Tribunal demonstrates that they can, if facilities are placed too close to<br />
residents. The debate has now evolved to one of degree. The question that should be asked<br />
is: What protections, such as permissible noise levels or setback distances, are appropriate to<br />
protect human health? In Ontario, recent regulations have provided guidance in that regard. In<br />
cases such as this, where the Appellants have not sought to demonstrate any type of unique<br />
harm associated with the design of this Project and have not attempted to demonstrate the<br />
sensitivity of a particular receptor, it was essentially up to the Appellants to prove that the<br />
Ontario standards are wrong in the context of the specific Project under appeal (leaving aside<br />
the related question about possible non-compliance with the standards). Just because the<br />
Appellants have not succeeded in their appeals, that is no excuse to close the book on further<br />
research. On the contrary, further research should help resolve some of the significant<br />
questions that the Appellants have raised.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Smith</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/2012/10/23/nocebo-doubt-about-it-wind-turbine-syndrome-is-catching/#comment-2463</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2013 16:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/?p=2496#comment-2463</guid>
		<description>Nope. Just regular people - all over the province, living (or going to be) living inside these wind power plants.  Fund raising is via coffee-cans and paypal donations.  Haven&#039;t seen an oil guy other than Suncor and Enbridge at the &quot;consultation&quot; meetings.  Many of us are long time environmentalists, wildlife advocates, park defenders, etc. Sorry to burst that bubble....   Can you donate the $100 to the CCSAGE Ostrander Point ERT Legal Fund please?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nope. Just regular people &#8211; all over the province, living (or going to be) living inside these wind power plants.  Fund raising is via coffee-cans and paypal donations.  Haven&#8217;t seen an oil guy other than Suncor and Enbridge at the &#8220;consultation&#8221; meetings.  Many of us are long time environmentalists, wildlife advocates, park defenders, etc. Sorry to burst that bubble&#8230;.   Can you donate the $100 to the CCSAGE Ostrander Point ERT Legal Fund please?</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Smith</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/2012/10/23/nocebo-doubt-about-it-wind-turbine-syndrome-is-catching/#comment-2462</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2013 15:09:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/?p=2496#comment-2462</guid>
		<description>Peter. Let&#039;s come up with a hypothetical situation. Let&#039;s say Ontario was an island, not connected. Let&#039;s say that 100% of its electricity was generated from non-emitting sources. And lets say that its generation capacity was 40% greater than its demand and that electricity demand was forecasted to be stable or decreasing for a minimum of the next five years.  Would you believe that there was a business case or a need for installing a few $Billion worth of Utility scale wind turbines on the Island?

What if there was 85% of the electricity generated by non-emitting sources? No coal generation. And the addition of Wind Turbines required that additional, otherwise unneeded emitting generation be built as well.  And by making it mandatory that Wind generation be &quot;first to the grid&quot;, other non-emitting, cheaper had to be reduced, spilled, or steamed off. Would that be worth it? Is that a benefit? 
What if in additional to the above scenario, Wind projects were allowed to be built in bird sanctuaries, and that projects were planning to put nearly 900 turbines directly in the path of the major migratory fly-way? Would that be worth it? Is that still a benefit? 


What if other projects were going to put a half dozen 600ft turbines directly in the flight path of a regional airport, thereby requiring the approach and safety protocols to be changed. And thereby decreasing the efficiency of that airport? Would that be worth it? 
What if, say, 100-200 families had to leave their homes, without compensation of any kind, for whatever the health reason because they simply couldn&#039;t tolerate living INSIDE a power plant?  Would that be worth it? 


In Ontario, today, the last scenario is the reality. No placebo effect. Just the reality. The Wind Industry/Ontario Liberal Government partnership is completely out of control. If you are an Ontario taxpayer, you are paying tax money for no benefit to your province.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peter. Let&#8217;s come up with a hypothetical situation. Let&#8217;s say Ontario was an island, not connected. Let&#8217;s say that 100% of its electricity was generated from non-emitting sources. And lets say that its generation capacity was 40% greater than its demand and that electricity demand was forecasted to be stable or decreasing for a minimum of the next five years.  Would you believe that there was a business case or a need for installing a few $Billion worth of Utility scale wind turbines on the Island?</p>
<p>What if there was 85% of the electricity generated by non-emitting sources? No coal generation. And the addition of Wind Turbines required that additional, otherwise unneeded emitting generation be built as well.  And by making it mandatory that Wind generation be &#8220;first to the grid&#8221;, other non-emitting, cheaper had to be reduced, spilled, or steamed off. Would that be worth it? Is that a benefit?<br />
What if in additional to the above scenario, Wind projects were allowed to be built in bird sanctuaries, and that projects were planning to put nearly 900 turbines directly in the path of the major migratory fly-way? Would that be worth it? Is that still a benefit? </p>
<p>What if other projects were going to put a half dozen 600ft turbines directly in the flight path of a regional airport, thereby requiring the approach and safety protocols to be changed. And thereby decreasing the efficiency of that airport? Would that be worth it?<br />
What if, say, 100-200 families had to leave their homes, without compensation of any kind, for whatever the health reason because they simply couldn&#8217;t tolerate living INSIDE a power plant?  Would that be worth it? </p>
<p>In Ontario, today, the last scenario is the reality. No placebo effect. Just the reality. The Wind Industry/Ontario Liberal Government partnership is completely out of control. If you are an Ontario taxpayer, you are paying tax money for no benefit to your province.</p>
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		<title>By: Roger Faulkner</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/2012/10/23/nocebo-doubt-about-it-wind-turbine-syndrome-is-catching/#comment-2456</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger Faulkner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2013 16:21:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/?p=2496#comment-2456</guid>
		<description>I believe this is akin to the placebo effect. The placebo effect is very strong for some people. It is also akin to the psychology of true believers of all kinds. And this does have easy to understand survival benefits. Our ancestors were war-like, and the true believer gene is a requirement for following an idiot like Hitler to war.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe this is akin to the placebo effect. The placebo effect is very strong for some people. It is also akin to the psychology of true believers of all kinds. And this does have easy to understand survival benefits. Our ancestors were war-like, and the true believer gene is a requirement for following an idiot like Hitler to war.</p>
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		<title>By: David Pratt</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/2012/10/23/nocebo-doubt-about-it-wind-turbine-syndrome-is-catching/#comment-2383</link>
		<dc:creator>David Pratt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2012 03:22:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/?p=2496#comment-2383</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve got an old GameCube with a warning on it about flashing lights and seizures.  It is common knowledge that a fixed point of focus, placed into motion, is hypnotic to people, and less commonly known that the more physically and mentally healthy a person already is, the less likely they are to become hypnotized using this method.  Just as many have differing but consistent first reactions to a ball thrown toward their face by surprise (catching, dodging, freezing, holding out arms as if to stop something other than the ball, etc.), it is entirely conceivable--and testable--to find out whether consistent blinking of the light triggers a headache in one person but nausea in another, while a third feels panic and a fourth regret, while not affecting 30 or 40 others around them.  It would likely follow the pattern of hypnotism: the healthier among them, mentally and physically, would be the least affected.  In the end, it would be found that people were commenting on conditions they already had which were made worse by the blinking light and sound, not caused by them.  Just a prediction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve got an old GameCube with a warning on it about flashing lights and seizures.  It is common knowledge that a fixed point of focus, placed into motion, is hypnotic to people, and less commonly known that the more physically and mentally healthy a person already is, the less likely they are to become hypnotized using this method.  Just as many have differing but consistent first reactions to a ball thrown toward their face by surprise (catching, dodging, freezing, holding out arms as if to stop something other than the ball, etc.), it is entirely conceivable&#8211;and testable&#8211;to find out whether consistent blinking of the light triggers a headache in one person but nausea in another, while a third feels panic and a fourth regret, while not affecting 30 or 40 others around them.  It would likely follow the pattern of hypnotism: the healthier among them, mentally and physically, would be the least affected.  In the end, it would be found that people were commenting on conditions they already had which were made worse by the blinking light and sound, not caused by them.  Just a prediction.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt B.</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/2012/10/23/nocebo-doubt-about-it-wind-turbine-syndrome-is-catching/#comment-2380</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2012 22:18:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/?p=2496#comment-2380</guid>
		<description>Now consider Gulf War syndrome, which also had a wide range of symptoms. &lt;i&gt;Someone&lt;/i&gt; probably got sick from &lt;i&gt;something&lt;/i&gt; in Iraq, but once others find out about it and unchecked speculation gets hold of their minds, they get phantom illnesses.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now consider Gulf War syndrome, which also had a wide range of symptoms. <i>Someone</i> probably got sick from <i>something</i> in Iraq, but once others find out about it and unchecked speculation gets hold of their minds, they get phantom illnesses.</p>
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