Papyrus Alluding to Jesus’ Wife Proven Authentic

By Carl Engelking | April 11, 2014 1:01 pm

jesus wife

A controversial piece of papyrus that references the wife of Jesus is indeed ancient, according to recent dating results.

Since Harvard professor of divinity Karen L. King publicized the so-called “Gospel of Jesus’s Wife” in 2012, scientists and theologians have fiercely debated the authenticity of the fragment — the only known papyrus containing the words “Jesus said to them, my wife.” Biblical scholars have argued that the 1- by 3-inch chunk of papyrus is modern, “oddly written” and a “clumsy forgery.” But results from recent chemical and handwriting analyses say otherwise.

Proving Its Authenticity

Scientists used a technique called micro-Raman spectroscopy, which measures the way objects scatter photons from a laser, to determine the chemical composition of the ink used to write the “Gospel of Jesus’s Wife.” The chemical composition of the ink dated back to between the sixth and ninth centuries, or earlier, and matched other samples from the same time period.

A second study examined the fragment’s handwriting to verify its authenticity. King, at Harvard Divinity School, weighed all the evidence and concluded that the fragment is likely a product of early Christians, not a forgery. The findings were presented in a series of studies published Thursday in the Harvard Theological Review.

Was Jesus Married?

King emphasized that the authenticity of the document is not proof that the historical Jesus was married. Rather, the fragment highlights an ongoing debate among early Christians regarding women and discipleship.

“The main topic of the fragment is to affirm that women who are mothers and wives can be disciples of Jesus — a topic that was hotly debated in early Christianity as celibate virginity increasingly became highly valued,” King explained Thursday in a news release.

Shrouded in Mystery

Despite this announcement, the fragment’s origins remain a mystery. The person who wrote the gospel is unknown, and the person who gave it to King in 2011 wished to remain anonymous. So it looks like this case is anything but closed.

 

Photo credit: Einottaja/Wikimedia Commons

CATEGORIZED UNDER: Living World, top posts
MORE ABOUT: archaeology
  • Rajinder Nijjhar

    Hi Brethren,
    In Jesus, we speak spiritual language which in narration is just opposite to the physical language.
    Our physical heavenly father Adam is of Nature what you see with your two naked eyes whilst our spiritual Father God is Supernatural that is above or superior to our natural physical father.
    Natural once-born man is to be disciplined through moral laws to behave peacefully and Rabbis used to be their Moral Teachers. But as they became corrupt, Moral Laws were flawed and the Rabbis became hypocrites telling their Disciples some thing different and they themselves doing some thing different that was not morally sound.
    Jesus himself was solitary and he made others solitary. Solitary are Virgin Brides of Bridegroom Jesus and the Marriage ceremony was Eucharist. The Eleven left over after the Expulsion of Judas Iscariot became His Virgin Wives to propagate Gospel in His Honour or name.
    That is why Christ Thomas stated that unless a female, a person who follows others such as Rabbis, Bishop, Pope, etc. become a solitary Male with Christ in His heart, he cannot enter into the Royal Kingdom of God meant for the solitary that can pass through the Narrow Gate into the Vineyard of our Father where the True Vine Christ Jesus exists.
    I have put up over 3600 Youtube Videos channel nijjhar1 for your perusal.

    • Christopher Nash

      TL;DR

      It’s literal when it fits our beliefs and metaphorical poetry when it doesn’t.

      • Anthony

        Why can’t we just leave A HOLY LIFE like JESUS did then and get the results and reward that HE got. Bible said Seek ye first the kingdom of God and HIS righteousness and all other things shall be added unto you. Why always leaving substance and chasing shadows. Have we ever thought one thing about the life JESUS lived. He came through a Virgin, HE died only proclaiming the WORD of God, before HE came there was a prophecy that HE was coming, the night before HIS death HE said HE was going to be betrayed by Judaism and it happened, He said HE will die and HE will resurrect and it happened, he said I will destroy this church and I will built it in 3 days and HE did, Bible recorded HIM as The Messiah and Mediator between God and Man and it’s still happening till now. This world what else do you want. To see more signs to believe? He said the next sign for you is to be swallowed by a fish like Jonah that wanted to rebel against him and HE sent a fish to help Jonah do his work. If HE got married or had a girlfriend shouldn’t be the focus here but the focus should be that HE said I have forgiven you of the sins Adam and Eve made you inherit and all the atrocities we have been committing. Why can’t we just say Thank God and enjoy his Love and mercies that endures forever instead of attracting more condemnations to our self. JESUS YOU ARE THE BEST.

        • Rajinder Nijjhar

          Very simple living. Treat others as you wish to be treated and also worship God within you, Emmanuel, in truth and in spirit. It were the two liars Christ Peter killed for He was supposed to Feed sheep for the Church of God.
          Then serve in spirit meaning like the little children what is inside you tell the others outside. No hypocrisy as these politicians do. Dog-Collared Priests in Churches are hypocrites working for Mammon and not God. At the end of the day, they are paid in Mammon and not in Gospel Truth.
          It is damn simple and you can make it complicated as to suit your whims.

          • immigrant1

            Lost?

          • SunKing

            I was going to jokingly say “Are you from India or something”, then noticed your name. No wonder your post sounded nonsensical. Even for a Christian,..

        • SunKing

          Even after posting this a second time, you are still a moron.

    • SunKing

      You actually put that much BS on YouTube? You must be REALLY full of BS to output that much horse dookey.

  • Anthony

    Sorry Christopher I meant to post on the main forum.

  • Anthony

    Why can’t we just leave A HOLY LIFE like JESUS did then and get the results and reward that HE got. Bible said Seek ye first the kingdom of God and HIS righteousness and all other things shall be added unto you. Why always leaving substance and chasing shadows. Have we ever thought one thing about the life JESUS lived. He came through a Virgin, HE died only proclaiming the WORD of God, before HE came there was a prophecy that HE was coming, the night before HIS death HE said HE was going to be betrayed by Judaism and it happened, He said HE will die and HE will resurrect and it happened, he said I will destroy this church and I will built it in 3 days and HE did, Bible recorded HIM as The Messiah and Mediator between God and Man and it’s still happening till now. This world what else do you want. To see more signs to believe? He said the next sign for you is to be swallowed by a fish like Jonah that wanted to rebel against him and HE sent a fish to help Jonah do his work. If HE got married or had a girlfriend shouldn’t be the focus here but the focus should be that HE said I have forgiven you of the sins Adam and Eve made you inherit and all the atrocities we have been committing. Why can’t we just say Thank God and enjoy his Love and mercies that endures forever instead of attracting more condemnations to our self. JESUS YOU ARE THE BEST.

    • SunKing

      Not only are you a whackadoodle, you haven’t got many of your ‘facts’ straight.

      Ya know, the Bible wasn’t written and then Jesus made these things happen.. All this was written well after Jesus was dead, whether on the cross or not, resurrected or not (I think not, in both cases).

      You need to do a great deal of further research, for you are misguided.

  • immigrant1

    Jesus often referred to himself as the bridegroom and His bride the Church. Nothing complicated there.

    • SunKing

      Nothing that makes any common sense, either.

      I wouldn’t invite a young man to dinner who thought he was the bridegroom to a Church.

      • immigrant1

        Figures – shows you really never read or understood the Bible but I can’t blame you for that lol. The contents of the old Testament was already written and was incorporated in the traditions of the culture. This of course wouldn’t make sense to someone who alludes to himself as the Sun king.

        • SunKing

          I spent many years studying the Bible and spent one year every morning with the Old Testament and one year every morning with the New Testament. Plus I have read many book about the origins and writers of both books and many other religious topics, too

          While the contents of the Old Testament were incorporated in the culture of the Jews of the time of Jesus, none of them we taken by the Jews to point to a Saviour and Messiah of the manner that Christians pervert the OT to do.

          If anyone had a claim to the followers of Jesus, it would have been James, the brother of Jesus. But it seems that Paul, who never met Jesus, was able to call out a cohort of Roman soldiers (about 120 soldiers, 10+ platoons?) to pull his chestnuts from the near riot he had caused near the temple wall and the mysteriously James get tossed to his death. Paul takes over, warps the teachings of Jesus and viola! Soon you have the Catholic church, creating the story of Jesus to fit the propaganda acceptable to the non-Jewish world (I mean, how you gonna convince multitudes of men to get their foreskins removed?) (“It won’t be long now” – Dr. Kutchapeckahof)

          Anyway, I could go on and on, fact is Christianity is a lie. Are the precepts attributed to Jesus a history changing set of morals, certainly. Was he resurrected and take on the sins ot man, which makes sense only to believers, I don’t think so.

          Sun King is a name I chose decades ago as a CB handle when I worked with REACT Channel 9 for emergencies. I am a Leo, some of my characteristics fit the astrological concept of a Leo (regal, kingly, which appealed to my vanity), I lived in the Sunshine State (Leo a Sun sign) and I was an old fan of the TV series Sky King….SO it was Sun King. Nothing more than that.

          Of course, it is interesting how many gods there were that had the same story of Jesus (virgin Birth, performing miracles, being killed and then resurrected), like that true Sun God Sol Invictus, Apollo, and then there was Osiris, who supposedly lived and was worshipped for over 2000 years before Jesus (and stiul todday)! Maybe Jesus was the 2nd coming of Osiris?!?!?

          • immigrant1

            WOW all that reading and still nothing LOL . But you are entitled to your opinion and I am to mine. To that end I will continue to pray for you and thank you for allowing me to bring others to Christ through our discussion.

          • SunKing

            Thanks, but I don’t want your prayers.

            Know that at one time I was a card-carrying believer. But the more I read, the more I learned, the more I realized the sham that is the Christian church, and others, too. I hope out discussions have made people thing about just what it is they are worshiping, make them curious about the words in their scriptures and do some critical thinking…

          • immigrant1

            Too bad you got it anyways! The Lord always wins and many will be saved. Thanks be to God. At least I have something to look forward to after this flesh dies.

          • SunKing

            And what makes you think that I believe that there is not some wondrous future for me, and others, beyond this life? Gotta love how Christians firmly believe that only they will ‘go to Heaven’. What BS. Ever have anyone come back and give evidence of that? NO! You belive whatever myth you want to believe, I’l choose what I want to believe and if you can’t live with that then poo on you. I will not be making any prayers that you change your beliefs…I’m not that arrogant.

          • immigrant1

            There you go generalizing people again. I never said only Christians go to heaven. I most definitely didn’t say I would go to heaven, but I believe in eternal life, with the possibility of making it into heaven. Unfortunately you are trying to convince yourself out of that place that is reserved for you. I’m OK with that. Never the less I still will pray for your conversion and belief even if you feel it is hopeless, I don’t. I am proud to say I am arrogant and unwavering about my faith. The difference between you and me is that my intentions are for the good of others with no malice, regardless of how you or others feel about the truth. I’m not here to change you.

          • SunKing

            No Prayers. And you may not have said only Christians go to heaven, but that is what you implication is when you say you ‘have something to look forward to’. I am sure you do not look forward to shoveling coal in Hell. So your denial is most lame. You play word games but hesitate to use facts.

          • immigrant1

            Too bad already sent out specially for you. You’re right I didn’t say “only Christian go to heaven. You are the one who actually implied that. But you are wrong there is no implication in my words when I said I have something to look forward to other than I personally have a place waiting for me in heaven. You may not consider yourself a Christian but I believe you too have a place waiting for you in heaven. Not just Christians. NO I don’t look forward to going to hell and I know I will try my best not to attain that. I say it like it is no play on words. My fact is in our existence. What facts have you proposed that can’t be argued, discussed or even denied. You can’t deny that we exist and you can’t prove why or how we exist. So your argument is actually weaker, because I can prove that we exist.

          • SunKing

            I implied that because so many Christians do imply that…and in the same manner as you spoke. But I think I’m right, despite your denial.

            Then you drop this ‘my fact is in our existence’.
            What is that supposed to mean? What fact?

  • SunKing

    @immigrant1:disqus There WAS no church when Jesus was allegedly alive…He was a Jew. He had no concept of establishing a new religion.

    • immigrant1

      There were synagogues and yes there were no Christian churches (duh) but marriages were performed. Allegedly alive? Even science has proven that Jesus was real. Then you go on to say He was a Jew lol. Now you are saying someone that didn’t exist was a Jew hahaha! Jesus did have a concept of establishing a new religion when the answer provided by Simon Peter set in motion the formation of the Catholic Church by Jesus. “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” With this answer, Jesus established the Catholic Church with Simon Peter designated the first Pope.
      “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father. And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

      • SunKing

        I personally think that there was a Jesus bar Joseph. I do not think he was the Son of God. I think he may have had the role of Messiah, but the Jewish concept of Messiah was not some supernatural absolution of sin…it was someone who would remove the yoke of the Romans. I do not think that Jesus was crucified on a cross and I do not think he was resurrected. I think therefore that Christianity is based on a Pauline lie.

        • immigrant1

          Like I said you are entitled to your opinion. But I do see you are at least now no longer “alleging” He existed. At least you now see that He did establish the Church by changing the point of discussion. LOL Got to love it. Most atheist/deist do the same thing so don’t feel left out.

          • SunKing

            Oh no, you read too much into what I write and try to prove yourself in the right without due cause. I do not think there was any intention to create a new Church. IF Jesus lived (and I’ve never heard of any scientific proof that he did.) I do not think you would have a Christian church.

          • immigrant1

            You just made a lot of sense LOL?

          • SunKing

            Actually, I DID make a lot of sense. You said there was scientific proof that Jesus lived and I responded that I’ve never heard of any scientific proof or that. And if Jesus had lived, I do not think that he would have established a new religion. I think he would have remained a Jew, an Essenic Jew, but not a new religion. Just because it was written in the New Testament, don’t make it so. There are so many contradictions if the 1st 4 Gospels that it’s ridiculous.

          • immigrant1

            “SunKing • 6 days ago

            …He was a Jew. He had no concept of establishing a new religion.”
            Your words not mine, need I say more? The so called contradictions you point to are points of reference of the writers. If you watch a football game or any event and write about it and three other people write about the same event do you think there would be perceived contradictions. I think so. But the final results of the event never the less is still the same. Goes to show you really do not know how to read the Bible . All those years of reading and still don’t get it. Your opinions were not formed by what you read in the Bible. Something in your life hurt you personally and you are putting the blame in God. I will pray that you find healing in that whether you believe in Jesus or not.

          • SunKing

            Much of what is written in the Bible, especially the New Testament is pure garbage…the kind you spew so well.

          • immigrant1

            2 Thessalonians 3:1

            Pray for us that the message of the Lord may spread rapidly and be honored, just as it was with you.

          • SunKing

            Ironic that you answer with one of Paul’s first letters that he wrote (or perhaps dictated to Silas and Timothy), since the people of Thessalonica had a number of questions. Some had interpreted that the 2nd coming was close at hand and were taking life easy since the end was so near. So Paul had to tighten up the propaganda, get these lazy Xians back to work and spread the logos/propaganda with a little more fervor. What a quote to respond with Bill! LMAO!

          • immigrant1

            Yes but as a learned man on scriptures you should also know that we are in the end times but no one knows when exactly that will happen. Even Paul knew that as our Lord Jesus Christ preached that no one knows when the thief will arrive and so we must always be prepared by keeping ourselves as clean as possible. The end time for each of us maybe today and not when our Lord comes again.

          • SunKing

            I’ve read more scriptures than most people who call themselves Christian and read lots more about the writing, compilation and translation of scripture, but I am more humble than you give me credit for…I would never tout myself as a ‘learned man on scriptures’. I seek enlightenment but that is a long path.

            I personally ascribe to the thought that Paul was a Roman agent provocateur who, when he saw an opportunity, took it to gain religious power and all that went with it. IF there had been a church that Jesus would have contemplated, his brother James would have been its head…but Paul was able, with the help of a Roman cohort (not a squad, a 120 man cohort, which means Paul had some influence and power already) to help eliminate James from the scene and take over.

          • immigrant1

            You seem to watch too many movies and ascribe to the theme of hidden agendas,world domination propaganda, new world orders and conspiracies. Paul wasn’t the head of the Church. Jesus gave that privilege to His first Pope, Peter. I bet you think it would be James cause you believe he is Jesus’ brother. LOL! So many were given that title in scriptures and even at the foot of the cross who does he call to be His brother by proclaiming Mary his mother? Problem with your hyperbole is that they are opinions based on your interpretation of the scriptures which are already tainted by your past life, pain and suffering that you blame on the Church. I will continue to pray to Jesus for your forgiveness and through the intercession of His mother Mary,

          • SunKing

            No, not from movies….that is where most Christians get their vision of how the crucifixion went. Did say Paul was the head of the Church? No. But theoretically, he spread the gospel to non-Jews…on a very large scale, and so was very influential and powerful when it came to forming doctrine…and he never met Jesus.

            My interpretation of scripture is not based on any pain and suffering…it comes from educating myself and not being brainwashed by a priest.

            Ha, here’s a good one…You know why Jesus if always portrayed on the crucifix draped in a loin cloth? They don’t want you to see he’s circumcised and realize that he was a Jew!

            Good Night.

          • immigrant1

            See there you go again with your misinformation. Everyone knew Jesus was a Jew. That was never ever questioned. See how silly your innuendos are? “IF there had been a church that Jesus would have contemplated, his brother James would have been its head…but Paul was able…” your words not mine. Yes you alluded to it. As I mentioned your opinion about James being Jesus’ half brother has been debunked over and over again as many of your other borrowed innuendos from Atheists,

          • SunKing

            I made no innuendo that James was Jesus’ half brother. That a Roman Catholic fiction. If there was a Jesus, he was Yeshua Bar Yosef and James would have been his brother. The RC accept grudgingly that Jesus had siblings, but only grants them the status of half-brother/sister, but no new wife…yet Mary remains a Virgin! Virtually impossible.

            Unless it fit in with the rituals of the Essene Jews……hmmm.

            Oh, please detail what misinformation I offered in my previous post. You accuse me of doing so, but don’t specify or correct. Now remember, the bit about Jesus draped in a loincloth on the crucifix was a joke.

          • immigrant1

            1 John 2:15-17

            Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the
            world, the love of the Father is not in him. For everything in the world
            — the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of
            what he has and does — comes not from the Father but from the world. The
            world and its desires pass away, but the man who does the will of God
            lives forever.

          • da bomb

            what contradictions

          • SunKing

            One gospel (Matthew?) does not even mention it. One gospel notes that the people were standing around the cross, another that the people were standing on the next hilltop over. Stuff like that. Get a legal pad, mark 4 columns, note the remarkable events and see if they are in any or all of the others.

            Remember the story of Barrabas? There are many traditions that indicate Jesus was not even crucified, that there was a switch made along the route to Golgotha. But Christian’s say that the ‘Son of God’ was crucified. BUT…Barabbas translates to ‘Son of God’!?!?!?!?!

  • joe

    Sun king, what a self inflated, self appointed name. Why do you think its ok to jump in on a conversation people are having about their beliefs just to talk down to them and call names? If you are so self-righteous and all knowing as you make yourself out to be, why try to prove your wealth of knowledge to people you think are inferior? Not too smart is it? Arguing with stupid people only makes you look stupid yourself. If you were wise you’d know that. But since no one here appears to be stupid, and your treating them as if they are, you just seem angry that others find peace and joy in something you don’t have the capacity to grasp. That just makes you pathetically ignorant. Atheists never surprise me with anything wise. All they ever seem to have are angry outbursts with personal attacks on an individuals intelligence. Hmm reminds me that wisdom MUST come only from God.i truly hope you find something that can bring you the peace OUR LORD AND SAVOUR provides. Apparently the sun isnt doing that for you. In Jesus’s name, Amen.

    • SunKing

      Joe, read my reply to Immigrant1 above, please. I never said I was an athiest. I am a deist. I merely think that the Christian religion is based on a lie and since so few speak up about it, I take it on myself to do so. I do not insist you not worship Jesus. I think you are a fool, but if you are happy then God between you and Evil. But do read some books that offer different opinions about religions and history, etc and you may learn something…or not. I love how Christians have little or no knowledge about the compilation of the New Testament and no idea about the Old (which is filled with tales from ancient Sumer, written thousands of years before Abraham.) Knowledge is power, lack of knowledge is ignorance, and most Christian leaders BANK on the ignorance of their followers.. Regardless, peace.

  • http://againstjebelallawz.wordpress.com/ Enopoletus Harding

    Papyrus, yes, inscription, no.

  • 18235

    since jesus never existed to begin with, anybody 2000 years ago could write anything of their fictional hero.

    • immigrant1

      Unfortunately for your train of thought there were written books that refer to Jesus not as a fictional character. Even people from other countries , culture and religion recognize Him as having existed. It is only now that people who are in love with themselves and worldly things that they are questioning it. Based on what facts?

      • 18235

        lots of people believe in lots of stuff—including ufos, cia killing jfk, and usa never landing on the moon.
        almost one BILLION east Indians and almost one BILLION Chinese don’t believe in jesus Christ, 2000 years later.

        • immigrant1

          Yes but that is not a good reason not to believe in something. If you tell me something tastes good I could choose not to believe you. But in your mind and experience it still taste good. Even after tasting it for myself I can still disagree that it doesn’t taste good. Never the less the taste exists. Yes I agree there are billions of people who do not know Jesus, But you also cannot refute the fact that there are also billions of Indian and Chinese people who do believe in Jesus. Can you tell me for a fact that those UFO’s do not exist. In the those people’s eye’s they saw something. Can you undoubtedly prove that the CIA were not involved in the JFK killings. I can personally say we did land on the moon cause I have seen the flag that was planted there with a telescope and can easily show that to those who don’t believe. But as for the other unexplained stuff you mentioned can you truly refute them? Until you or anyone can prove without a doubt that it does not exist I will believe there is something to what people have seen and experienced. Unlike doubting Thomas who has to see in order to believe. Blessed are those who believe but have not seen.

    • SunKing

      I may stand correctable, but I do not think there was much fiction writing in those days. To few knew how to write or read.

  • SunKing

    Inasmuch as Jesus was addressed as ‘Rabbi’ then it would be unusual if he was NOT married and did NOT have children. I think he was married and had children.

    • immigrant1

      Here you go again recognizing His existence. You can be such a hypocrite in your words when you go and contradict yourself. First you say Jesus doesn’t exist then you try to make a point by using Him as an example lol you are so laughable no wonder all those years of reading the Bible and you still don’t get it. Now I understand.

      • SunKing

        I’m not a hypocrite. I just think that if there was a Jesus that he was a far different Jesus than the one that Christians believe in. And since I’m so laughable, you can go piss up a light pole because I’m done wasting time with your BS.

        • immigrant1

          :)

  • immigrant1

    In 2007, the media were agog over the claim by “Titanic” director James Cameron and TV-director Simcha Jacobovici that the Jesus family tomb had been found. Cameron declared that it had been determined “beyond any reasonable doubt” that the tomb of Jesus and his family had been found. It didn’t take long before it was revealed to be a hoax.

    In 2012, the media were hyperventilating over the claim by Harvard Divinity School professor Karen King that Jesus may have had a wife. Speaking of the papyrus fragment that is the basis of her claim, King said at the time, “If it’s a forgery, it’s a career breaker.” Now that it has been revealed to be a hoax, neither King nor Harvard are speaking.

    Why are the media so easily seduced by such tales? To be sure, such extraordinary claims from apparently credible sources cannot be ignored. But there is something else going on as well.

    Quite frankly, there is an ideological need to discredit the history of Christianity. If anyone doubts this to be true, all that needs to be done is to examine what happens almost every Easter season: TV, Internet, newspaper, and magazine stories abound with questions over the “real” Jesus. Was he divine? Or was he just a happy carpenter? Sowing the seeds of doubt is the name of the game, making understandable why claims about Jesus’ family tomb and/or his wife are irresistible. But don’t look for similar stories on the “real” Muhammad.

    On September 29, 2012, an editorial in the Vatican newspaper, L’Osservatore Romano, called the papyrus fragment an “inept forgery.” Last month, three Coptic experts, Christian Askeland, Mark Goodacre, and Alin Suciu, independently concluded that the fragment was a fake. So have several Egyptologists from the U.S. and Europe.

    It’s just a matter of time before someone else claims that Jesus had a wife, or the Resurrection never happened. The politics involved are weighty, and the fanaticism of the players is palpable.

    May 12, 2014
    Bill Donohue

    • SunKing

      I think my comment was deleted, but you, sir, are a well known, pro-Roman Catholic propagandist in the USA. What an honor! Unfortunately, I would not believe a word that is spoken from your mouth. I have heard you speak on many news programs and I have to laugh at the blind bombast with which you lend forth.

      I bet most of the names you cited claiming forgery were good-tithe Christians, with less emphasis on the ‘Coptic’ which makes one think they are not the evangelistic, fire-brand waving lunatics we usually see. If you study the times that Jesus supposedly lived, it would be strange if he were NOT married…especially if he was called ‘Rabbi’.

      And since the crucifixion of Jesus is in so much doubt, why would not the resurrection be in the same state? If you read the last book of John with the thought that Jesus was not crucified and not resurrected, the whole book makes more sense.

      • immigrant1

        LOL It was probably deleted because you make no sense. In any case I believe salvation is at hand and all you have to do is believe in it, I’ll see you on the other side of eternal life.

        Unfortunately unless you take the hand that is given you, I will literally see you on the other side. I will continue to pray that you aren’t. Your truth in this world is no better than mine. But at least my truth leads to peace and love for mankind.

        • SunKing

          It was probably deleted because you flagged it, because you cannot stand to have any anti-Roman Catholic interpretation of anything left unchallenged.

          I make no sense? Anyone who objectively reads the Old and New Testament and understands how these books were developed and written will understand that they do not represent the Word of God in any way. The Bible makes no sense, but is used by unscrupulous individuals to control people…and their purses.

          I believe in eternal life, but you are about the last person I’d want to see there. Jesus is not my path to eternal life.

          • immigrant1

            Really? What your path to eternal life. The Bible has withstood the trial of time and is still going strong. That bother’s you doesn’t it. LOL ! Get behind me Satan. hahahaha

          • SunKing

            Withstood the trial of time? HAHAHA. It’s been changed, translated to different languages, translated in error, certainly misinterpreted in error. I certain times it was the only writing available, especially to the common man, in other times to be found with written material that was NOT the Bible could mean death, etc, etc.

            In other words, the deck is stacked in it’s favor. Got nothing to do with the truth.

            Like the circus man said, “A sucker is born every minute”, and, thus, the Bible has passed the test of time.

          • immigrant1

            See get your fact straight there is no proof that it was changed in fact at the time of its compilation, re-publishing and translation into other languages a lot of effort went intto ensuring that nothing changed. You can go back to every revsion and time and find no changes. No proof in your truth. But rea truth has withstood time and the devil in you.

          • SunKing

            YOU’VE GOT TO BE OUT OF YOUR MIND! There is a multitude of proven examples in the translations of words being misinterpreted if not completely gotten wrong. Countless references to this type of thing.

          • immigrant1

            Name them….

          • SunKing

            I responded with examples to you, but referenced another website so I think my comment was deleted.

            Folks, go to any public library. There are dozens of books about the writing and translating of the Bible and explicit, proven exmaples of the mistakes made and the impact on doctrine caused by those mistakes.

          • immigrant1

            In other words do your own research. Thank you for encouraging others to find their Faith.

          • SunKing

            Hey, I tried. I don’t have all day to make comments to enlighten others. I took the time over many years to read books not written by the theologians and priesthood that benefits from the propaganda they output.

            I also know that it is virtually impossible for me, via comment boards, to significantly impact another person’s thinking on subjects of this nature.

            So in a sense, it might be better that the reader is ‘forced’ to seek this information on their own time and develop the knowledge base and belief base as suits them.

            The more you know about Christianity and it’s founding, about the Bible (the New Testament, specifically, but the Old Testament is impacted) and it’s foundation and compilation, the more you will question the motives and practices of those who take your tithes and tell you how to live your lives…and castigate you if you DON’T do as they say!

            Christianity is a lie, formed by Paul. The New Testament is a package of lies assembled by committees of people who never met Jesus.

            Learn more. You may find that you faith is changed, but it may be a faith that’s better. I believe in God, not God Jesus, but God. I see the wonder and beauty created by God all around me. But I also believe that God may have been the Great Evolutionist. I think that we humans had our DNA altered to give us the power to learn and grow in a way different from our original design. I believe that we will find eternal life. “We are stardust, we are golden”.

          • immigrant1

            There’s hope for you yet. Praise Lord Jesus Christ. Who fulfilled all the prophesies of the Old Testament.

          • SunKing

            And then there’s THAT canard, that Jesus fulfilled all the Old Testament prophesies. What horse dookey! The chief propagandists find anything they can in the OT to link to Jesus, no matter how far fetched and how irrelevant the OT reference is to Jesus in order to say that ‘He’ fulfilled all the OT prophesies. What a joke.

            If the critical reader examines these canards in detail, you will see how desperate these attempts are.

          • immigrant1

            Details that you who supposedly studied this for many years cannot even explain or expound on. LOL

          • SunKing

            I didn’t say I memorized every detail or could expound on every detail. If one is interested, the information is out there. I did give some examples but they disappeared. I don’t have all the time in the world and you haven’t given anything to prove any truth you believe in.

            The Truth Is Out There! and it ain’t in Mr. Bill’s Catholic church.

          • SunKing

            Don’t sit there and insinuate that ‘I’m right…the Bible has stood the test of time’. Perhaps the opposite is the truth. Why is it so hard to get new Roman Catholic priests, or new members. Other churches may temporarily gain more members, but what they preach does not have the staying power to keep folks coming back, they rely on pure emotional excitement and adrenaline with rock bands and light shows. They stray far from what your gentle Christus would have preached, as does the RC faith.

            And you brave stand that there is no proof that there was any change at the time of it’s compilation is pure poppycock. First of all, there weren’t that many people who could read. Then how many could translate from ancient Hebrew to Aramaic to Greek or Latin? And how many would have been given approval to do so from the power-hungry potentates who were among the small group of people who were given the task of determining what golspels and material would be available in the Bible? It was more likely that more people were reliant on hearing the message expounded to them and had to but the story on faith alone. …NOT evidence of eny kind.

            THEN the church controlled everything until Martin Luther. Heck, when I was a Boy Souct in a Catholic School Boy Scout troop, they were still performing Mass in Latin…not many understood Latin in the ’60s. If you cannot read the doctrine, if the doctrine is expounded in Latin, how can a person decided what is right and wrong…lest he trust his soul to a priest, another man, a human being with lusts and appetites like him. No, the Bible is NOT standing the test of time, especially the New Testament, that piece of propaganda created to speak to the Pauline lie.

          • immigrant1

            Again no proof you are full of hot air. Same old Atheist propaganda that has been proven wrong. You can read now can’t you? And you can see the different translations from one language to the next. So where are the changes? You can’t even find the time to fully research the garbage that comes from your mouth. You are a joke sir. And I will no longer waste my valuable time debating with you when you have no facts to show.

          • SunKing

            The word Messiah is one. The Aramaic/Hebrew meant ‘anointed one’ and could refer to any number of people or objects that were anointed for sacred purposes. The Aramaic got translated into Christon and has more to do with Savior. The Jews had no expectation of any Savior, or of someone who was ‘the messiah’. Whoever happened to be a messiah (an anointed one) when the End Times came became ‘the Messiah’, but there were some conditions that made that relevant. One of those is the relatively recent establishment of Israel. The Jewish Messiah was a physical man, meant to bring the tribes together and establish them…no the Christian version of God and Son of God with tall the supernatural mumbo-jumbo you Roman Catholics go through.

          • immigrant1

            Philippians 4:9

            My son, if you accept my words
            and store up my commands within you, turning your ear to wisdom and
            applying your heart to understanding, and if you call out for insight
            and cry aloud for understanding, and if you look for it as for silver
            and search for it as for hidden treasure, then you will understand the
            fear of the LORD and find the knowledge of God.

        • SunKing

          Sadly you believe that nonsense and are unfortunately given the access to influence the unwitting, of which there are many in any Christian church you go to..

  • Will Wiegman

    Good Grief Charlie Brown! Jesus’s whole thing was that non-Jewish people could worship the same God as the Jews did. He was a half breed (OK, maybe a 16th Goy), descended from Ruth, a Moabite. He was also for human rights including Women’s Rights. And as a healer, He cured the poor as well as the rich. Someone we all can look up too.

    (Pun intended.)

    • SunKing

      It was Paul who wanted the non-Jewish people to worship without having circumcision, Jesus MAY have belonged to a group of Jews called the Essenes, who practiced medicine and the use of herbs and potions. It may have been such a potion that made the alleged crucified Jesus ‘die’ on the cross so quickly. Typically, the Romans would allow a person to hang on the cross for days, if not weeks…they knew the torture business well and the idea was for possible other offenders to witness the full gore and pain transgressors went through. It was VERY unusual for a man to die on the cross in 3 hours….almost unbelievable. So the sponge lifted up on the spear may have contained an Essene soporific that made the body appear dead. Also, the Essene’s typically wore white and it was a person dressed in white that met Mary Magdalene at the tomb.

NEW ON DISCOVER
OPEN
CITIZEN SCIENCE
ADVERTISEMENT

Discover's Newsletter

Sign up to get the latest science news delivered weekly right to your inbox!

D-brief

Briefing you on the must-know news and trending topics in science and technology today.
ADVERTISEMENT

See More

ADVERTISEMENT
Collapse bottom bar
+

Login to your Account

X
E-mail address:
Password:
Remember me
Forgot your password?
No problem. Click here to have it e-mailed to you.

Not Registered Yet?

Register now for FREE. Registration only takes a few minutes to complete. Register now »