5 Times Scientists Tackled Conspiracy Theories, and Won

By Nathaniel Scharping | August 16, 2016 1:20 pm
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(Credit: Everett Collection/Shutterstock)

Conspiracy theories are something of a plague for scientists: no matter how much research is done on some topics, a vocal minority will insist that the facts just aren’t true.

So it’s gone for vaccines, climate change and 9/11, and so it will go on, in all likelihood. In some cases, it may be best to simply ignore the conspiracy agitators, but, as a 2010 article in EMBO Reports points out, some of the biggest scandals start out looking very much like outlandish conspiracy theories—the Watergate scandal in the 1970s, for example.

Perhaps the best attitude toward conspiracies is to follow the advice popularized by Carl Sagan: “Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.”

When taking on some of the more outlandish theories out there, scientists must weigh the the public benefit of lending knowledgeable analysis to questionable hypotheses with the chance they’ll provide a semblance of legitimacy to the claim they’re studying. In the end, a scientific paper may not win over hardened conspiracy theorists, but it may at least quell the suspicions of those caught in the middle.

As one survey paper looking at the viability of the “Chemtrails” conspiracy puts it: “Our goal is not to sway those already convinced that there is a secret, large-scale spraying program—who often reject counter-evidence as further proof of their theories—but rather to establish a source of objective science that can inform public discourse.”

Here, we take a look at five conspiracy theories that scientists felt compelled to weigh in on, from nutrient-draining microwaves to shaggy mountain-dwelling hominids.

Chemtrails

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(Credit: Gajus/Shutterstock)

As the world has become more developed and air travel even more of a necessity, the number of passengers on airplanes has climbed steadily, and proof is in those streaky clouds in the sky.

For some, those vapor trails that mark a plane’s passing hint at something more insidious: a secret government program spreading harmful chemicals across the country. The white clouds wouldn’t form naturally, according to chemtrail theorists, and there must be some sort of mysterious ingredient involved.

Researchers at the University of California-Irvine and Stanford published a comprehensive survey of 77 scientists who had published papers related to atmospheric deposition and contrails. All but one said that they had never encountered evidence of a secret government program intent on spreading chemicals via jet planes, and every scientist surveyed said that the suspicious vapor trails could be easily explained by the natural interactions of jet exhaust and the atmosphere.

Fluoride

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(Credit: Tamas Panczel-Eross/Shutterstock)

While the government may not be injecting chemicals into our air, it is putting chemicals into our water.

Fluoride has been added to the drinking water in the U.S. for decades to reduce cavities, and a 2013 study in the Journal of Dental Research indicated it works. While the element is naturally present in most water at low levels, as well as in some foods, the additional fluoride gives our teeth an additional level of defense against bacteria.

During the 1950s, aided in part by fears of a Communist insurgency, fluoride’s pervasive presence in homes across the country led some people to claim that it was in fact being used as a mind-control drug. As the thinking went, secret forces were feeding us chemicals designed to erode our willpower under the guise of promoting dental hygiene.

Fluoride can actually be quite harmful to us, but only when consumed at concentrations far greater than those found in tap water. According to the World Health Organization, concentrations of fluoride are usually kept to around 1 part per million. To see detrimental effects, you would need to exceed at least ten times that level.

And, even then, the effects include lesions on the teeth and the possible calcification of ligaments — not something you would necessarily want to have happen, but certainly not mind control. In 2015, the Cochrane Collaboration reviewed every study it could find on the benefits of fluoridated water, and concluded it may not offer its touted preventative benefits. However, the debate about the efficacy of flouridated water is a far cry from a government mind-control project.

Microwaves

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(Credit: Kostenko Maxim/Shutterstock)

They breathe life into day-old pizzas and cold casseroles, but do microwaves leech all the vital nutrients from our favorite foods?

Microwaves work by interacting with very specific molecules in food, most importantly water molecules, but fats and sugars as well. This is why your soup gets burning hot, but the plastic lid on your tupperware container doesn’t. The waves cause the molecules to vibrate, generating heat. Microwaves aren’t strong enough to actually break chemical bonds, however, meaning that they won’t destroy the nutrients inside your meals.

Some of the evidence for this claim comes from research showing that heating up some foods — especially by boiling them in water — serves to break down helpful compounds, such as antioxidants. However, cooking foods with different methods, such as by steaming, frying, baking or microwaving them, does not have the same effect.

A study dating all the way back to 1982 confirms as much, stating: “…no significant nutritional differences exist between foods prepared by conventional and microwave methods.” And according to CSIRO, Australia’s national agency, “if correctly used, microwave ovens offer a convenient and safe method of food preparation without any detrimental effects on consumer safety or nutrition.”

Bigfoot

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A brown bear standing on its hind legs. (Credit: Sergey Uryadnikov/Shutterstock)

Mysterious creatures never fail to stir our imaginations, and it’s no surprise that cultures from across the globe tell tales of morphologically ambiguous hairy creatures roaming the backwoods. From the Yeti in the Himalayas to the Almasty in Central Asia and the Bigfoot that haunts our North American forests, wookie-like humanoids populate our collective imaginations.

Bigfoot has inspired amateur documentarians and fame-hungry hunters for decades now (it’s even the star of a show on Animal Planet), egged on by a wealth of supposed footprints, grainy photographs and first-person accounts dating all the way back to the Native Americans.

In 2014, a team of researchers led by Oxford University geneticist Brian Sykes conducted a DNA analysis of 30 hair samples less than a century old that purportedly came from sasquatches or similar creatures. Every sample was ultimately matched to known mammals, including cows, dogs and bears. While there was some controversy over their claim that several samples came from an extinct species of polar bear, their study found absolutely no evidence for a previously unknown species of hominid lurking in the wilderness.

Photographic and video evidence, most notably the Patterson-Gimlin film, have been subjected to intense scrutiny, but none have ever presented sufficient evidence to prove that Bigfoot exists or ever did exist. Bears seem to be a common culprit in Bigfoot cases. Bear footprints look somewhat similar to ours, and because they also occasionally stand on their hind legs like a human.

Steel Beams

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The attacks on the twin towers on 9/11 stand as one of the most shocking moments in U.S. history, and for some the attacks seemed too coordinated to have come from a terrorist group. Instead, so-called “truthers” pin the blame on a government conspiracy.

One of the most-cited and well-publicized pieces of evidence offered by this group is the claim that jet fuel does not burn at high enough temperatures to melt the steel beams. By this logic, explosives or some other form of fuel must have been used to bring the buildings down.

While jet fuel, which burns at around 800 to 1,500 degrees Fahrenheit, may not reach the 2,750-degree melting point of steel, it is only about half as strong at 1,100 degrees, according to a comprehensive report compiled by Popular Mechanics in 2005. For the towers to collapse, the steel would not have needed to turn into a puddle of molten metal, it would only have had to bend enough to compromise the structural integrity of the building.

And, if you don’t believe us, perhaps this irate metalworker can convince you:

 

CATEGORIZED UNDER: Environment, Living World, Technology
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  • Mike P

    You’re joking to think the iron worker’s video proves anything. Also, the jet fuel burned off on impact. Engineering and material science is advanced enough such that a building can be designed to handle a fire. Buildings catch fire all of the time-google it. The Popular Mechanics article is bullshit.

  • Steven Hager

    Well, this was believable until you slipped in that last one on steel beams. Yeah, most of the crazy conspiracy nonsense is obviously spread around as a counterintelligence op to sheep-dip all thought of conspiracy as crackpot, when, in fact, it happens to be the basis for most every criminal prosecution, as in RICO. Meanwhile, the official conspiracy story of 9/11 as being fomented by some cave-dwellers in Afghanistan working alone is rapidly unraveling. Just follow the links from Saudi Arabia, to ISI, to CIA to MI5. Oh, and the Mossad? They were watching everything unfold and taking video.

    • zlop

      Mossad arts students planted explosives.
      Those who did 9/11 are in tight control.
      They almost nuked South Carolina.
      “Karen Hudes confirms and names head honchos behind thwarted Nuclear False Flag on US” uTube

    • Albury Smith

      Only 9/11 truther nuts consider al Qaeda suicide terrorists “some cave-dwellers in Afghanistan.”

    • Ian Morrison

      You really don’t science, do you Steven?

  • http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz4.htm Uncle Al

    Dental fluoride – include the punch line! Normal response to living in a toxic society (taxes-paid day was 24 April 2016, 31.5% direct income confiscation) is intractable depression. Big Pharma pushes SSRI’s that cause xerostomia (dry mouth). Everybody carries bottled water for need then fashion, including kids. Bottled water has no fluoride.

    Punch line: Juvenile dental caries’ incidence has skyrocketed.

    • http://forcedfluoridationfreedomfighters.com/ Dan Germouse

      All bottled water has some fluoride. The concentrations are mostly much lower than those of artificially fluoridated water, but in some cases are similar or even higher. Apart from that, you don’t seem to understand the difference between correlation and causation.

      • http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz4.htm Uncle Al

        tylervigen,com
        False correlations.

  • http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz4.htm Uncle Al

    Steel Beam – A crappy wood-fired kiln (5th century anagama kiln) reaches 2500 °F – a firing chamber with a firebox at one end and a flue at the other, just like a burning skyscraper. Air-blown kerosene mist, as opposed to a burning pool, tops around 3700 °F reverbatory. Nickel superalloys retain their engineering strength to 90% of absolute melting point, not less than 50% as with steel, for jet engine turbines (rear section).

    The buildings did not lose their thick vertical box beams, they lost their thin horizontal floor support trusses. The intact floors pancaked downward, sliding along the box beams, as the non-load bearing curtain walls progressively shattered. The structure was superbly well designed. It survived direct impact of throttle to the firewall loaded and fueled Boeing 767-223ER and Boeing 767–222, wholly swallowing either plane, then violently burned for at least 30 minutes (including polymer fill – carpets and decor) before losing structural integrity.

    • Mike P

      Without a damping effect? The same situation on the 50th floor is going to transfer all of that heat energy to the 10th floor? The hillbilly with the forge proved that wouldn’t happen

      • zlop

        Yellow hot metal flowedl
        “WTC2 South Tower on 9/11 Molten Metal North-East Corner” uTube

        • Mike P

          And the firemen on the ground were hit with shrapnel from bombs exploding.

          • zlop

            I did not know that — thanks.
            (saw video of firefighters saying explosions, pools of moltem metal and bottom beams cut at an angle)

      • http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz4.htm Uncle Al

        Youtube v=NwFHEoiUZ7o ONE floor failing a few stories down is enough, where the plane hit, Youtube
        v=qhyu-fZ2nRA

        If it isn’t math it is opinion. Opinion is Progressive (crap).
        Twin Towers falling started roughly 438 m tall, then halved for average height of all floors; 522.8×10^6 kg total.

        mgh = (219 m)(9.81 m/s^2)(522.8×10^6 kg) = 1.123×10^12 J
        (1.123×10^12 J)(4.186×10^12 J/kt) = 268 tonnes of TNT gravitational potential energy alone. boom

        • Mike P

          The plane crash had nothing to do with the building falling. You forgot to include the modulus of elasticity for structural steel, Poisson’s ratio, buckling effect. Other things you may TRY to learn about is heat transfer properties. There are also some basic common sense things to consider such as the randomness of which the buildings SHOULD have fallen, if they actually were to fail without controlled demolition. They were hit by aircraft nearly an hour apart, yet fell at the same time. No fighters were scrambled to intercept the second plane during this time. The US government are always the good guys. They won both world wars, fought communism, and try to get rid of evil dictatorships–well, only in countries with oil.

          • Witgren

            The two towers of the WTC were hit only 17 minutes apart (8:46 and 9:03 a.m.), not “nearly an hour”. And they collapsed 29 minutes apart (9:59 and 10:28 a.m.). Also, two fighters were scrambled when it was learned the first plane had been hijacked, but they had not yet gotten off the ground when the plane hit the first tower.

            Facts. They do the body good.

          • Mike P

            wrong

          • Witgren

            My comment lies in tatters at the force of your counterarguments. Truly your eloquence is the heir of Cicero and Churchill.

            When the towers were hit and fell is pretty much not up for debate. There were thousands of witnesses. And 2 fighters were indeed scrambled a few minutes before the first plane hit, but hadn’t taken off yet. So I’m not sure how you think saying “wrong” somehow invalidates my points. You might as well have simply said “yellow” or “dachshund” and made about the same impact.

          • Mike P

            Now you have the facts, TRY to use some common sense and ask how the events were allowed to continue. only 2 aircraft? In Pentagon airspace? No radio contact was given by the pilots to air traffic control while the hijackings happened? The buildings fall symmetrically? Something that professional demolition crews get paid big money to do, because it takes a lot of expertise. Evidence falls into the lap of the FBI–and while the public is still hot? Terrorist acts that only say “come get me”, and do not seem to achieve or support any real political motive?

          • Mike P

            Now that you have the facts, TRY to do something with them. They only scrambled 2 aircraft, on a day 4 airplanes were hijacked? Even you could understand that officials would not see 4 airplanes flying off course as something usual. The 2 aircraft are in the official story? If this is really supposed to be about religion, why are they so preoccupied with America? These activities just say “come get us”. That’s what they are designed to do. Many of the recent “activities” were also shown to be frauds. Look them up.

          • Albury Smith

            Facts. They do the body good and are anathema to 9/11 truther nuts.

        • Marv Sannes

          joules? Hoy boy. you get your math from eddy currant – the bldg. engineer, fundamentalist bashing, whacko from you tube. that’s good.

          • http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz4.htm Uncle Al

            If joules disturb you, convert to catholics.

    • Marv Sannes

      “Pancaked” . Watching TV science. Everyone there that day spoke of “explosion” and the term disappeared from the dialogue the next day and has not appeared in America’s media since. Well, conspiracy – of course. Given 24 hr. to think it over – pancaking floors became obvious. You did not notice girders and columns ejected 3, 4, and 500 yds.? Springing? Air pressure?

      • http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz4.htm Uncle Al

        Youtube v=NwFHEoiUZ7o The floors squish down, the air blows out. Take a vertical double handful of spaghetti and drop it six feet. There is no neat stack at the point of impact.

        • Marv Sannes

          Make the spaghetti out of thin steel rods getting thicker every 16 floors. 1/4″ at the top, 5″ steel at the sidewalk. WTC1, 2, 7 were steel framed structures – your verinage video are concrete slab construction. Weak, very weak. Like using J to measure and convert the stored energy converted by gravity. Hand waving – that’s good, it certainly works, is working for you. Hahahaha

      • Albury Smith

        Silent and invisible explosives that leave no evidence in the debris. Only 9/11 truther nuts know about them.

    • Marv Sannes

      UC Davis Cahill found molten molybdenum needs 4,750 f – how’d that happen? He also found plastics molecules that require 5,000f to get that size. These fire kiln misting kerosene are “plausible denial”. Believe what we wish to be true – just give them anything that can get the denial started. Who owns “Discover” – it’s a clue.

      • Jerry Cordaro

        Conversion of potential energy to kinetic, maybe?

        • Marv Sannes

          Does not explain what we observe happening to the material above the impact – the 2 hat trusses should have had a gentle ride to the top of the pile – not there – two gigantic steel bridges – GONE!

          • Jerry Cordaro

            A gentle ride to the top of the pile? A building collapsed! Nothing had a gentle ride!

          • Marv Sannes

            Had it collapsed as the Commerce Dept. told us it did, a gentle ride. But if you observe it, or ask a 6 yr. old to observe, it explodes WTC1. Check it out

      • Roger Thompson

        Ok. Let’s say explosives were used. How does that equation to puddles of molten molybdenum? Explain the type of explosive and how the use of it would cause these “puddles”?

    • Ronald Sabin

      Kilns use forced oxygen to increase the burn rate and the temperature. The 9/11 WTC fires were smoke-filled and were likely oxygen-starved. There was no evidence of the inside of the WTC towers glowing due to high temperatures. There was plenty of glowing from the molten metal seen leaving the South Tower immediately prior to its collapse. That would be consistent with explosive being ignited prematurely by the office fire.

    • Erik Bosma

      I understand this was 23 days ago but this argument never seems to end. Has anyone checked out the possibility of a thermite type reaction between the aluminum of the planes the iron of the steel beams and the oxygen in the air? Anyways, I think the fact that – true or not – this conspiracy is even discussed by so many people is evidence enough that there is a problem with the US Government and its citizens. This is no longer George Washington’s and Company’s dream anymore. It was in the Constitution that the USA no longer ally itself with any of the wars and politics of the old world. They kept true to that promise until WW1 when they rejoined the British Empire in their quest for world domination. And this is coming from a Canadian… ie ‘me’.

  • zlop

    Jeb Bush was taken down, because he brought 9/11 up. Donald Trump is unlikely to get far, because those who cannot be criticized, have good assassins.

  • Deuce_2112

    Yellow hot steel is 2000’+ F and redyellow flames only exist during incomplete combustion, which is nowhere near 2000′. Someone’s blowing smoke here.

    Nice try, “Mr Blacksmith”

    • Derick Post

      Blacksmith is not exactly a “scientist”, right… not exactly laboratory conditions

    • Albury Smith

      Why would there be “incomplete combustion” in buildings ripped wide open by 767s going ~440 and ~540 mph?

      • Deuce_2112

        maybe if you did some research into the relationship between the color of flames and their temperature, you wouldn’t have to ask such a basic question.

        • Albury Smith

          If you’d like to see the same flame (and smoke) color, look at some tanker truck fires on YouTube. The massive WTC hi-rise fires easily exceeded 1800 degrees F, and upper air level temperatures reached >1100F.

  • http://forcedfluoridationfreedomfighters.com/ Dan Germouse

    There is no credible evidence that fluoridated water has ever prevented a single dental cavity. The forced-fluoridation fanatics often try to claim that the low rates of dental caries in western European countries which do not have artificially fluoridated public water supplies are due to naturally occurring fluoride in water, or some other kind of artificial fluoridation such as salt fluoridation. They are lying. They also rely on studies which do not measure individual fluoride exposure, are not randomised, are not blinded, do not properly account for confounding factors, are highly prone to systematic error, and are typically funded by corporations such as Colgate-Palmolive.

  • Joe B.

    “As the thinking went, secret forces were feeding us chemicals designed
    to erode our willpower under the guise of promoting dental hygiene.”

    Hillary???

    • okiejoe

      Dr. Strangelove, I presume?

  • Niko Soter

    I have tried to post some information from an article about conspiracies that was written by Paul Craig Roberts, however it has not been allowed, for some reason.

    Essentially the article points out that calling someone a “conspiracy theorist” or labeling and dismissing troubling and unexplained events such as the destructions of the WTC, including 7, which was not hit by any aircraft, as nothing more than “conspiracy theories” so as to ignore their implications, is wrong. And that the US Government’s own version of the events of September 11, 2001 is also a “conspiracy theory” albeit one that is less credible than those theories advanced by David Ray Griffin, or Paul Craig Roberts, or Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth. Since I have not been allowed to post the quote, I suggest people find it on their own, from the writings of Mr. Roberts, in Foreign Policy Journal and other sources.

    • Jerry Cordaro

      “…such as the destructions of the WTC, including 7, which was not hit by any aircraft,…”

      Could it possibly have something to do with, say, a couple million tons of debris slamming down next door on the same plaza, and the airblast from said impact?

      • Niko Soter

        Simply put: No. Your incorrect factual recitation does not explain 2.25 seconds of free-fall acceleration through the path of most resistance, as measured and stated by NIST. Only explosives can explain that phenomenon. Your “explanation” is a joke.

      • Ronald Sabin

        You do not get a symmetrical collapse from asymmetrical (not symmetrical) damage. If some of the supports had failed due to damage from the twin towers collapses, you would expect the damage to be greater on the sides facing the twin towers and a partial collapse from such a scenario should reflect that. However, WTC7 was a very secure modern building with about 80 or 90 supports per floor. It would have been built to handle the static load above of the building plus furnishings plus people, plus the loading from wind, with a safety factor added in. For a symmetrical collapse you need to take out all of the 80-90 critical supports plus the walls simultaneously on each floor. That’s just not going to happen without planning.

  • Robert Karma

    Conspiracy theories are like religion, no amount of evidence-based facts, data and history will not dissuade them. Actually, evidence actually works to reinforce the faith-based worldview of the true believer. Science has to focus on educating the public and we need schools to teach critical thinking skills so our children can learn to separate fact from fiction. A functional Constitutional Republic requires an educated populace. Otherwise it becomes easier for demagogues to sway the masses with their baseless claims and propaganda.

    • Niko Soter

      Isn’t the Government’s explanation of the events of Sept. 11, 2001 a “conspiracy theory?” Doesn’t it involve two or more people who agreed to commit a crime? Isn’t the Official Conspiracy Theory even less plausible than other “theories” including those which posit that the buildings were destroyed by controlled demolitions?

      Is it more believable that a man in a cave in Afghanistan was able to pull this off?

      Which evidence based facts can explain the free-fall acceleration for 2.25 seconds of WTC7, as admitted by NIST?

      • European

        This “man in a cave” was an engineer to the best of my knowledge and the son of the owner of one of the largest SA construction companies. Oh and by the way educated, financed and provided with military hardware by the US. US policy unfortunately never came to understand that the “the enemy of my enemy is my friend” is a non starter. He just plain hated you guys and saw you as useful idiots to use for his purpose at that time (kick the Russians out).

        • Derick Post

          The “man in a cave” was a CIA agent and his family were staying with poppa Bush on 9/11 and was able to leave the country while no-one else could fly.

          • Albury Smith

            Then Humam Khalil Abu-Mulal al-Balawi “was a CIA agent” too. Look him up.

    • Derick Post

      Newton does not lie. Pancake collapse? Calculate the time that would take. Have you heard about WTC7 freefall? How much resistance from the steel beams occurs if the the building is in freefall?

  • F. Paul

    You steel beam morons. You only have to heat steel to a fraction of its melting point to make it malleable and compromise its ability to sustain weight. The first tower was hit low on purpose by Atta — he was an architecture student. All you non-engineer cheez-whiz types need to stick to You Tube and Cartoon Network — you’ll feel safer there, snowflakes.

    • Jerry Cordaro

      If steel wasn’t malleable at below melting point, it couldn’t be shaped by blacksmiths at all. Does anyone really think that a smith could stand next to a 2750 degree furnace?!

      I worked as a lab tech at a steel plant a while back. One of the stories told was about the time a molten steel bucket broke free and hit the ground. The guy unlucky enough to be in front of the bucket essentially evaporated without being hit by any of the steel.

      • Derick Post

        If steel melted then the building would fall off to one side – not go through the increasingly massive central columns all the way to the ground.

        • Professor_Tertius

          LOL. Ever hear of gravity? It makes things fall straight down, not sideways. You confuse a huge building with a kids stack of blocks.

    • Ken Doc II

      Show me any other high rise building fire and tell me when any steel became malleable and unable to still sustain it’s weight?

      “The first tower was hit low on purpose by Atta”

      He hit the 90th floor out of 110! You think that’s low? lol

      • F. Paul

        My mistake: I meant first tower to fall. Atta flew low into the second tower, which is why the second tower came down first. More weight over a compromised area.

        • Albury Smith

          Atta was at the controls of AA 11, the airliner that hit the 96th floor of the North Tower. His pal Marwan al-Shehhi flew UA 175 into the 81st floor of the South Tower ~17 minutes LATER, and it collapsed first. More weight over the compromised area as well as greater damage from ~100 mph more velocity and a more destructive path through the core caused the South Tower, hit second, to fall in ~56 minutes vs ~102 minutes for the North Tower.

  • Ken Doc II

    wow, from chemtrails, to fluoride, to Big Foot……. to “Steel beams”. Is this a joke.

    How many times can a person type “conspiracy theorists” in one article?

    Sorry discover magazine but Jet fuel cannot melt steel. This is not a conspiracy theory, this is a fact! Popular Mechanics can say the steel bent as much as they want but that does not explain the “pools of molten steel” under the rubble!

    • Jerry Cordaro

      Okay. Try to follow along here, please.

      Jet hits building, igniting fuel and materials inside.

      Fire weakens internal support structure.

      One floor falls when beams holding it up fail due to heat and weight.

      Falling floor hits floor below, whose bracing is already weakened due to same fire, and collapses as well. External structural beams, already weakened by fire above, deform due to impact, and the floors collapse one after the other, doing progressively more damage until the entire structure fails and collapses.

      Potential energy of falling material is converted to kinetic upon multiple impacts, blowing debris out any available opening, and heating the debris.

      Material at the bottom takes the weight of the entire structure falling down, and kinetic energy has nowhere to dissipate and thus flash heats the material.

      Take heated, malleable steel, drop a few millions tons of hot material on it with nowhere for that energy to go. Steel melts and/or is deformed by impact. Puddles.

      • Marv Sannes

        “…flash heats the material.” Will this flash heating reach any temp. measured? Is there a limit to frictional heating from the kinetic energy conversion? Or does the temp just keep rising with this kinetic energy input? Computing this rise in temp must get to the temp. measured by Cahill and his UC-Davis Dome.
        The 2nd set of questions: What about the hat truss and the materials above the impact: That concrete was powdered by heat, the hat truss was vaporized, how did that happen? Those material should have had an fast ride to the top of the pile, and then were vaporized and powdered by sitting on top of this “flash heat”. Not what is video taped – not what we see happening.

        • Jerry Cordaro

          Drop a few million tons on top of anything you care to name, and it will melt and be deformed.

          • Marv Sannes

            The hat-trusses disappeared – nothing dropped on them. 2 gigantic steel bridges – gone.

          • Ken Doc II

            First of all, the Towers did not weigh a “few million tons”….. and why do you think a collapsing structure would melt? You make it look like you know what you are talking about but I bet there is no experiment you can show to prove anything you say as correct.

        • Ronald Sabin

          Most of the jet fuel burnt off in the impact fireballs and what was left would have quickly burnt off such that it would be effectively gone within ten minutes. Office fires have never burnt hot enough to cause a steel building to completely collapse before or since 9/11. If an office fire could burn hot enough to deform steel, imagine the implications for the welding industry. You wouldn’t need to buy an electric arc or an acetylene with oxygen combo to rework steel. You could just burn some materials like cotton, polyester, nylon, acrylic or polypropylene.

      • Derick Post

        Floor hits floor all the way to the bottom? So how long would that take? (Somewhat longer than observed). And how does this explain WTC7 freefall? (It doesn’t)

        • Jerry Cordaro

          No, floor hits floor until the building can’t take the added strain and collapses. And what do you mean WTC 7 freefall?

          • Ken Doc II

            and if you don;t know about Building 7 after 15 years. Chances are you don;t know much about 9/11. other than what the TV told us.

          • Niko Soter

            Mr. Cordero, why not check out what NIST reported: 2.25 seconds of free-fall acceleration for WTC 7. This cannot be explained without the use of explosives.

          • Albury Smith

            It was very easily explained without the use of explosives, since there weren’t any. The ~2.25 seconds at g was only the partially-gutted EXTERIOR of your Sacred Tower 7, and the perimeter columns were 100% moment connected to spandrel beams, i.e. they all stood or all collapsed at once. When the interior collapses brought down the exterior, they all failed in unison, and snapped and sideways columns offer no measurable resistance. Since the interior was falling much faster at that point than the exterior and was connected to it at multiple points, g for the visible portion of the collapse could actually have been EXCEEDED for part of that time.

          • Derick Post

            If you don’t know about WTC7 you should not comment on 9/11.

          • Ronald Sabin

            Look up the NIST FAQ’s about WTC7. 2011 Revision, item #11. It is there in black and white that WTC7 fell at 100% of freefall for the times 1.75 seconds to 4.0 seconds into the progression of the collapse. During that time WTC7 fell 8 stories in a uniform manner straight into its own footprint. The floors below offered no pushback to slow the progression of the collapse, in violation of Newton’s Third Law of Motion. It was as if the floors below were not even there.

          • Albury Smith

            The floors below WERE NOT even there at that point; the interior began collapsing ~10 seconds before the exterior did, and the partially-gutted exterior may even have exceeded g for part of that ~2.25 seconds.

          • Tim Yates

            Show me the floor of a building that would support the weight of 1 floor falling a distance of 1.75s to 4.0s at 9.8m/s

            17.15 meters ~ 39.2 meters
            53.65 feet ~ 122.62 feet

            Weighing x tons

            Assuming x = 100k tons

            PE= 200,000,000 × 32ft/s × 53.65 feet

            PE= 343,360,000,000 joules

            343.3 billion joules

            KE= (200,000,000 × (32ft/s)^2)/2
            KE = 102.4 Billion Joules

            Total Energy = 102.4+343.3
            TE= 445.7 billion joules

            328.73 Billion foot pounds of force

            Think about it…

      • Ken Doc II

        Try to follow….. Jet fuel cannot cause steel to melt.

        As for your whole “pancake analogy”. It’s physically impossible for the top 1/5th of a building to smash through and completely destroy the entire bottom 4/5ths. If it disagrees with experiment….. it’s wrong!

        Can you prove this statement wrong by experiment?

        • Tim Yates

          How much energy is created when dropped 500k tons in a free fall at 9.8m/s^2?
          At a distance of 2′

          OR you could do 150k tons free fall at a height of 12′

          Just to see how much support a free falling upper section would need, and I guarantee you the ratio is exponential

          That’ll answer your own question

      • Marv Sannes

        The steel in the top 16 floors was 1/4″, the bottom 16 – 5″, the basements 6″. The mass of steel that “crushed” or “pancaked” was 1/72nd of the building steel mass. The concrete was reduced to powder by extreme heat. The same process that turns basalt to “ash” in a volcanic eruption – the sudden extreme heat causes the gas molecules within the rock to expand explosively. However, this is very difficult to see if you’ve had some “training”.

    • Albury Smith

      Why don’t you explain the “pools of molten steel” under the rubble? Do explosives keep any metal molten for months? Do incendiaries? The WTC debris fires kept lead and aluminum molten that long, and there were no recorded temperatures in them higher than ~1500F.

      • Marv Sannes

        Cahill, UC-Davis and the Davis Dome. check it out. He describes very high temps required to create the vapor sizes. Or how about the photos of pistols under the seats of cars reduced to blobs of metal – high heat! Or 1,000 people vaporized – not a trace of DNA found after 3 siftings. Or the “swiss cheese” girders, or the disappeared hat trusses – just a few phenom. answered by extreme heat. Or John Schroeder, or the Fireman statements or dozens more e.g. of high heat. You’re not picking the low fruit here – better stick to the conspiratards – there are so FEW of them! Hahahahahahahaha

        • Albury Smith

          Ask Gage & his 9/11 crackpots to duplicate the “swiss [sic] cheese” on those 2 tiny pieces of steel (not “girders”) using explosives or incendiaries. Aside from Schroeder and Dent, what other FDNY drink your Kool-Aid?

          • Marv Sannes

            you could try McQueen’s analysis of the 500+ fireman statements, 160+ specifically mention explosion.

          • Albury Smith

            How many of these statements you’re quote mining for the common word “explosion” mention DEMOLITION explosiVES and link the many loud bangs coming from random places inside the burning WTC buildings to a later hi-rise collapse? How many FDNY are 9/11 troofers?
            Who’s McQueen, and why do perfectly clear eyewitness accounts need his “analysis”?

          • Marv Sannes

            Look it up, your shtik is argument, you have no interest in improving what you know about the event – a crabbing old man, steeped in an old world view of his reality and screaming at everything and everyone who threatens that view. Maybe you need Jesus? That world view never changes!

          • Albury Smith

            Look what up? You’re a tax-exempt 501 (c)(3) “educator,” and I simply asked you some questions.
            Are you a Jesus freak too?

          • Marv Sannes

            nope, not into religious practice, making the suggestion for you. You do not progress with question – a good place for your process is: Belief.

          • Albury Smith

            No one progresses with questions that go unanswered, and you still haven’t answered mine.
            Rpt:
            -How many of these statements you’re quote mining for the common word “explosion” mention DEMOLITION explosiVES and link the many loud bangs coming from random places inside the burning WTC buildings to a later hi-rise collapse?
            -How many FDNY are 9/11 troofers?
            -Who’s McQueen?
            -Why do perfectly clear eyewitness accounts need McQueen’s “analysis”?
            Thanks in advance.

          • Marv Sannes

            Graeme McQueen, one of the “911 Toronto Hearing” presenters, a Canadian Academic. That is probably the single best troofer book you can read. The firemans’ statements were ordered by the Commander and were recorder in Oct./Nov. 2001 and were released by court order from a suit by the NYtimes in 05. they are candid depositions that have been analyzed by several researchers. None of the caliber of researcher like A. Smith.

          • Albury Smith

            Graeme MAcQueen is a retired Canadian “peace studies” professor, not a forensic structural engineer, demolition expert, or in any other way qualified to do serious research on building collapses, nor are any of the other “9/11 Toronto Hearings” presenters or attendees. The oral histories of >500 firefighters, paramedics, and EMTs were transcribed to .pdf files and publicly released on 8/12/2004, and not one of them needs any “analysis” from MacQueen.
            Once again, which of these statements you’re quote mining for “explosion” say anything at all about DEMOLITION explosiVES and link the many loud bangs coming from random places inside the burning WTC buildings to a later hi-rise collapse, and how many FDNY are 9/11 troofers?

          • Marv Sannes

            De-Haven Smith, and Lauri Mandrell creditable? Or Chertoff, Chaney, Zakheim? You’re with an ugly crew. McQueen’s analysis was to separate out those who specifically identified explosion. 160+ – your semantics is as bad as ridicule – weak, very weak.

          • Albury Smith

            What do Chertoff, Cheney, and Zakheim have to do with the WTC hi-rise collapses? Is the entire FDNY credible? They don’t drink your Kool-Aid either.

          • Marv Sannes

            You remind me of a jr. hi. baiter, banal banter, the ‘gotcha’ internet interactions that offer nothing, only can react, do you go after church people? children? pose riddles? Tease animals? These twoofers finally gave you a social life. Makes me feel grateful that I have some grasp of reality. 52,347 US bombs and missiles dropped on 7 Islamic countries in the last 365 days and 80 to 90% of the casualties are women and children – if it was war we go after the fighters, genocide, we go after the women and children.

          • Albury Smith

            You remind me of an ostrich with its head buried in the sand. Your al Qaeda, ISIL, and Taliban heroes know all about genocide — they commit it daily, but none of this has anything to do with the fire-induced collapse of your Sacred Tower 7, now does it…

          • Marv Sannes

            “Anatomy of a Great Deception” or “A New Pearl Harbor” you tube

          • Albury Smith

            They’re both great deceptions.

          • Marv Sannes

            have you looked at either? a few minutes? nope. threatens your cave man view of the world. Here we are at our last day of the Oregon State Fair – “WTC7 Awareness” booth. The Smith’s with blinders are now a distinct minority.

          • Albury Smith

            Your whole 9/11 “truth movement” is a great deception.

          • Marv Sannes

            Perhaps you’d enjoy McQueens book on the Anthrax attack? Wonder who did that one – Bin Laden sneaking into weapons labs?

          • Albury Smith

            Only the 9/11 “truth movement” knows for sure who mailed the anthrax, since the evil FBI was unable to solve the crime conclusively. No one’s ever been convicted of the 1982 murders of 7 innocent people in Chicago with cyanide-laced Tylenol capsules, so your imaginary forces of evil must’ve done that too.

        • Albury Smith

          I am sticking to the “conspiratards” – have you and your ae911″truth” aficionados demonstrated for us yet on video with audio how the 4.91″ flanges, 3.07″ web, and 215 in^2 cross-sectional area of even one W14 X 730 WTC hi-rise core column can be secretly cut with explosives or incendiaries, or is dropping empty cardboard boxes and lying about all three collapse times as good as it gets?

          • Marv Sannes

            Good question – very good! What did they use? Engine blocks burning in the street, what could melt an aluminum piston exposed from inside an engine block in seconds? Melt those handguns under the seats of cars in the street – in seconds! Turn 200+ acres of concrete to powder? Vaporize those two gigantic hat trusses – huge steel bridges – gone. Yep, technology we can only find in sci-fi. Having these stats, you know the thickness of the steel on the top 16 floor was 1/4″ and getting thicker , every 16 floors, until the 6″ thickness in the sub-floors. Makes the crushing theory silly. Keep asking questions – it’s how we learn.

          • Albury Smith

            You’re a 501(c)(3) tax-exempt “educator” dude, not a learner, so please explain why these handguns and engine blocks were allegedly melted but not the vehicles in which they were allegedly found, and why this intense heat didn’t melt any passersby. Show us how the 4.91″ flanges, 3.07″ webs, and 215 in^2 cross-sectional areas of W14 X 730 WTC hi-rise core columns are secretly cut with explosives or incendiaries too, and then explain to the Local 40 & 361 Iron Workers why they didn’t see a shred of evidence of these alleged cuts during the nearly eight months they worked to remove the WTC debris steel.

          • Marv Sannes

            Pictures of the melted handguns, ask a steel torch cutter how the slag dripping from that famous photo of the 45 degree cut everyone likes to argue about – he will tell you to have that slag dripping the torch would have to cut from inside the column – something else create the slag – What? Your witnesses are countered with other witnesses. Your asking good questions: Don’t you think we should answer these questions? Investigate: Criminal, NTSB, Fire.

          • Albury Smith

            The next time you visit NYC to enlighten people, ask some Local 40 & 361 Iron Workers why they cut those columns on a 45-degree angle, and why all oxyacetylene torches leave gray slag around the cuts they make. Did your imaginary explosives or incendiaries jump out of the columns and melt engines and handguns blocks away, miraculously not melting the cars or burning any passersby?

          • Marv Sannes

            The direction of the slag is the point. The question about the explosives jumping to the blocks and handguns is very very good. Keep at it – good questions lead to better questions. There’s hope, even for a Smith with all those years of knowing so much. How did you do it?

          • Albury Smith

            You should explain the direction of the slag to the Local 40 & 361 Iron Workers who made those cuts. Tell them why your imaginary explosives didn’t instantly blow it all away too.
            Jeezus; what lunacy…

          • Marv Sannes

            Ridicule is, perhaps, the weakest argument technique. Nothing shows a lack of confidence more. Your mob is dwindling away. Another thing, weapons technology has evolved – the nano world has left you old gun powder buffs – break open a new shotgun shell and look at the design of the particles. Why do they do that?

          • Albury Smith

            I was merely suggesting that you enlighten the union iron workers who cut those columns with oxyacetylene torches to the fact that the slag went the wrong way, and that someone secretly planted explosives inside them that didn’t even blow away the slag, but melted handguns and engines inside of vehicles blocks away. That doesn’t seem like ridicule to me…

          • Marv Sannes

            You’re getting better, noticed the slag

            running down the wrong side of the cut. How? The handgun pictures on “the smoking gun, wtc6” video.

          • Albury Smith

            I also noticed the cart, oxygen & acetylene or other flammable gas tanks, hoses, regulators, cutting tips, and iron workers in the photos before Steven Jones cropped them and tried to pawn them off as evidence of explosives or whatever. Once again, explain your concerns to the Local 40 & 361 Iron Workers who made those cuts.

          • Marv Sannes

            Did you look at the photo of the melted handguns at the Fresh Kills Landfill? Nope. Those melted guns are impossible to explain so ignore them. there is no plausible story for the those blobs of metal or for the disappeared hat trusses. Try something, Jones or Gage tricking us with some kind of empty verbiage like free fall, or symmetry, or explosion, or molten metals or squibs, or 16th year at war with the planet’s 5th poorest country.
            The mob may be moving soon, get ready to change sides,

          • Albury Smith

            Hilarious.

          • Marv Sannes

            Arrogance, how do you know so much?

          • Albury Smith

            If the sane and competent among us should “get ready to change sides,” when will the first paper or article from or even about ae911″truth” be published in the Journal of Engineering Mechanics, ENR, structuremag . org, or any other reputable industry source?

          • Marv Sannes

            Naive. Money determines what is published. Check the owner of these publications, and/or the amount of public funding, directly or thru contracts. Find authority in truth or truth in authority? WTC7 demolition has not been shown on American TV since it happened. Is that a little curious? Nope.

          • Albury Smith

            Money determines what is published in Bentham Open, not in the Journal of Engineering Mechanics, ENR, structuremag . org, and other reputable industry sources. That’s why the nano-nonsense from Harrit, Jones, et al. is only published by Bentham.

          • Marv Sannes

            No question in your mind? More than 50% now doubt the 911 Comm. report. How can there be doubt about the invasion and occupation, 52,000 bombs dropped in 365 days. don’t you think there should be consensus about this kind of behavior? Try Ganser’s TED talk, see what you think of that guy –

          • Albury Smith

            Doubt what in the 9/11 Commission Report? Occupation of what nations?
            Ganser’s a stinking liar and an abomination who should not be teaching students in any university. His TED talk consisted of thoroughly debunked 9/11 conspiracy garbage laced with totally unscientific drivel, or what you’d expect from a history professor who’s either dishonest or just plain nuts.

          • Marv Sannes

            the reference won’t post. it is airwars. with an org. ridicule is the sure marker of lost confidence.

          • Albury Smith

            You didn’t answer my questions. I’m not ridiculing Daniele Ganser either — he’s truly a stinking liar and an abomination who should not be teaching students in any university, and his TED talk is an absurdity. Almost no hands went up when he asked who’d even heard about the collapse of his Sacred Tower 7, so that’s why they need a Swiss crackpot to tell them his imaginary 9/11 evildoers secretly bombed it so they could go to war? The lack of logic there alone is astounding.

          • Marv Sannes

            Smith, ridicule is perhaps the stupidest argument technique. You seem smarter. And using numbers of people – lots of people – is the 2nd dumbest argument – read the trial of Galileo – no learned person accept helio centric – it was an error of faith. Invasion and occupation, torture, assassination, child killing – geezus – what kind of a place is this – 16th yr. at war with the world’s 5th poorest country?

          • Albury Smith

            Who’s been at war with the world’s 5th poorest country for ~16 years? The governments of Iraq and Afghanistan are US allies, as are many of their citizens.

          • Marv Sannes

            Well, you cleared that up, apparently those 400,000 Afghans (80% women and children) were not allies and needed killing. Same with the 1,000,000 Iraqis? Nothing escapes you, such clarity, such insight, exact, and perceptive. If only there were more Smith’s?

          • Albury Smith

            You’re confusing US and coalition forces with the Taliban, al Qaeda, ISIL, etc., i.e. the ones actually targeting and murdering innocent civilians. Was all of this alleged “Invasion and occupation, torture, assassination, child killing – geezus” done because 3 NYC hi-rises collapsed from fire? 246 innocent people were murdered by al Qaeda suicide terrorists just on the 4 hijacked US airliners well before any of the buildings collapsed, many more innocent people on the ground were already dead, and property damage was already in the billions without any of the collapses.

          • Marv Sannes

            You can swallow any size turd if served by the TV media. There were no suicides for Allah, the planes and Arabs were the pretty girls dancing across the magician’s stage. Even a little history shows a pattern of these events preceding invasions/wars, political change. I doubt you read. PA did the soil at Shanksville twice and found no jet fuel either time, I know, it burned off! A 767’s air frame cannot withstand 500 knts. at 800 ft., the engines cannot swallow that much thick air – but they did! Different engine, different air frame. A pretty good trick and someday we will learn how it was done. Someday, and the day is coming fast, the question will be asked. The US, Israel, and Saudi Arabia remind me of the Axis invading Asia 80 yrs. ago. didn’t work out so well, but if you read the history of WWI and WWII there were unmistakable patterns – the same patterns we are watching today. Details – “what does it matter, now.” Life is soo much easier if we just trust the press and our defense industry, after all, their 1st priority is our welfare. Why look at Chertoff, Chaney, Barak, Perle, Rumsfeld, Silverstein, Zakheim, Ashcroft, Rice, Bremer, et al – these are the best kind of people? Look like honest, forthright, morally courageous kind of folks – obvious? Right?

          • Albury Smith

            The daily ISIL suicide attacks are all faked too. You’ve truly lost your mind…

          • Marv Sannes

            “The literate of the 21st century will be those who can perceive myth.”. We have theater and reality. 52,328 US bombs and missiles dropped on 7 Islamic countries in the last 365 days. Orlando: theater and reality – how many died? how many were theater? Ridicule is always a safe response.

          • Albury Smith

            Hysteria & hyperbole are always a safe response for some people too. Your exaggerated number of bombs and missiles from the evil US targeted known ISIL, Taliban, al Qaeda and other terrorist locations, not innocent civilians.

    • Albury Smith

      Do your silent invisible explosives “explain the ‘pools of molten steel’ under the rubble,” or was it evidence-free incendiaries that kept producing heat for >3 months? Who reported pools of molten lead or aluminum, since both were in abundance in all 3 collapsed WTC hi-rises and melt well below the highest recorded debris fire temperatures (which weren’t even close to the melting point of steel)?

  • Marv Sannes

    This Discover article is “plausible denial”. The story offers empty argument to provide plausibles to “believe what we wish to be true.” The priests have been doing this since we came down from the trees. Intelligence agents are our new “Priest Class” and America’s journalists and Congress are complicit. It is the mob behavior described by M. Twain in “Huck Finn”.

    • Ronald Sabin

      The printing press helped to bring down religious orthodoxy. Guess what the Internet will do to mainstream media orthodoxy?

      • OWilson

        That’s why Obama is hell bent to regulate the internet, and run it as a Public Utility under another government agency that doesn’t know how to back up email, or stop hard rives from crashing in sync :) or stop “rogue low level employees” from milking it for political purposes.

      • Marv Sannes

        Statistica has a graph of www use world wide – America is at 65%, Europe at 79%. I think in America we will be seeing the # remain. We have the slowest and most expensive www service in the world – intentionally controlling the info one way or the other.

      • Marv Sannes

        Another frightening statistic: In America, the only 1st world country where this happens, Fundamentalism is growing as is illiteracy, 27 million do not read or write, 2 million added to that rank every yr., 1/3 of Americans are “functionally” illiterate. I read a guy who thinks Rummy’s 2.3 trillion was spent underground building for H.G. Wells ‘warlocks’. Maybe true. As usual, the future is probably far worse than we can imagine. When the WWI started it was expected by most to be a brief episode. WWII, the same thing, “they will come to their senses”, WWIII began in Sept. 2001 and it will most probably be a similar plunge into the darkness.

  • Derick Post

    Any discussion about 9/11 without mentioning WTC7 is obviously just blowing smoke in your eyes.

  • Thomas R Engel

    What drivel! Steel heated to high temperatures does weaken, enough that after some time it can warp and a steel piece shifts even out of its plane simple statics will show that any metallic structure will fold and collapse. The 1st tower to go actually was seen to wobble and twist before the floors started to pancake. The twin towers were designed to be capable of demolition by pancaking the floors and that is what wound up happening; to make matters worse no asbestos insulation was used on the steel beams due to asbestos worries. Aside: the Poughkeepsie High Bridge was rendered unusable for trains by a mere creosoted tie fire in 1974 which warped the bridge’s wrought-iron girders. As for WTC7 (whose later collapse was ill-covered by the media, it took me years to confirms that a third tower had fallen that day) it was hit and weakened by a massive amount of heavy debris from the Twin Towers and that’s what happened to it.
    “Conspiracy” theories are more about what axes people have to grind than anything else. People who are trying to say Islam had Nothing to Do with 9-11, the Mossad did It, it’s Bush’s fault, maybe even the Halliburton Hurricane Machine blew the towers over. (Bigfoot was in Sacramento doing a one-nighter.) I don’t believe this Global Warming hogwash because the people that are squealing about it are suspicious. Some of them were even squealing about Global Cooling 40 years ago. (Long long term I think Global Cooling is going on but I’m not going to be able to rent out my place for July ski vacations in my lifetime.) It was over a degree warmer 800 years ago, Scandinavia was growing crops for tax payments whose growing season is too short for them now. When I ask the Global Warming Crowd about medieval shorelines I get blank stares and mutterings about the Koch Brothers’ funding me (the Koch’s are idiots IMO).

    • Niko Soter

      Why didn’t the other buildings on either side of WTC7 “collapse” as well? And where is the debris you cite as the reason for the “collapse” in photos of the building before it’s destruction? Have you ever looked a videos of the building falling at free-fall acceleration through the path of most resistance? There is no evidence of debris either on or near the building.

    • Derick Post

      Axes to grind? Really? A freefall collapse of a skyscraper – no resistance from the building for 2.5 seconds – that is like losing 100 feet of steel vertically all at the same time. And you don’t make the connection with the lack of media coverage or the occupiers of the building and the stuff it contained? All just coincidence?

  • Josamaroo

    9/11 was definitely some kind of inside job and the proof is in the so-called evidence that the government has provided. Pictures taken after the twin towers fell show that the steel beams were cut at angle on order to weaken the structure. WTC 7 did not fall due to structural damage caused by 2 floors of office fires and instead was brought down by controlled demolition in order to destroy important documents that showed many companies were involved in illegal activity in the stock market, especially the airline companies that were involved in the destruction on 9-11. Finally how in the heck did a plane hit the Pentagon and only produce a hole the size of a garage door and very minimal debris on the outside, there’s well over 20 security cameras in the vicinity of the destruction on the Pentagon but all we get to see is 2 seconds of a flash. If there’s no cover-up, than why has the government been silenced on 9-11 and why was Bin Laden never wanted by the FBI for his supposed involvement on 9-11, and instead was public enemy #1 for an Embassy Bombing but wasn’t announced til after 9-11 in order to make it seem like he was involved.

  • Gerald Wonnacott

    As Bugs Bunny would say, “What a bunch of Maroons”. Really, you conspiracy advocates are actually Morons.

  • Overburdened_Planet

    The Department of Health and Human Services has twice made recommendations to water utilities that they keep added levels of fluoride at or below four ppm.

    And while fluoride exists naturally in spring water, it is calcium fluoride, with a much lower toxicity than sodium fluoride, which is what’s added to most drinking water.

  • Overburdened_Planet

    Microwaves and Advance Glycation End Products are well worth researching, and how different types of foods, cooking methods, temperatures and moisture dramatically affect the healthiness of foods.
    High AGE = high temp, long cook, low moisture
    High AGE = high fat/protein
    High AGE = frying, broiling, grilling, roasting
    Low AGE = low temp, short cook, high moisture
    Low AGE = carbs/low-fat dairy
    Low AGE = lemon juice/vinegar(pre-exposure marinade)
    Low AGE = boiling, poaching, stewing, steaming
    Eggs w/cooking spray, margarine, or oil
    had ~50% to 75% less dAGEs vs. butter
    Scrambled eggs, open pan, med-lo heat = 1/2 dAGEs
    versus high heat
    Poached/steamed chicken = 1/4 dAGEs
    versus roasted/broiled chicken
    Broiled beef (5,963 kU/100 g)
    Boiled/stewed beef (2,230 kU/100 g)
    Broiled chicken (5,828 kU/100 g)
    Boiled/stewed chicken (1,124 kU/100 g)
    Microwaving 6min or less = lower dAGE than dry heat
    650-800 watts of power:
    100-90% power: 425-500º, deep-fat fry/broil/stove-top HI
    80%: 375-425º
    70%: 350-375º or medium-high on stove-top
    60-50%: 300-350º or medium on stove-top
    40-30%: 225-300º or medium-low on stove-top
    20%: 200-225º
    10%: 150-200º or lowest setting on stove-top

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