We Now Know When HIV Arrived in the U.S.

By Nathaniel Scharping | October 26, 2016 12:00 pm
(Credit: Shutterstock)

(Credit: Shutterstock)

When healthy young gay men began dying of a rash of rare diseases in 1981, it sparked a panic that soon spread beyond the gay community.

The underlying cause would soon be identified as Acquired Immunodeficiency Syndrome, and the AIDS crisis was underway. While 1981 marked the first time that AIDS entered the national consciousness, it had been circulating beneath the radar for some time. By the time it was “discovered,” thousands of people had likely already been infected, creating a pandemic just waiting to emerge.

Now, researchers from the University of Arizona and the University of Cambridge say that they have dated when the most common North American strain of HIV, the disease that leads to AIDS, arrived in the U.S. and tracked its spread across the country. In doing so, they claim to have cleared the name of the infamous Patient 0, a flight attendant often blamed for bringing HIV to the U.S.

Piecing Together an Epidemic

The researchers reconstructed viral RNA sequences from patients unknowingly infected with HIV in the late 1970s in New York City and San Francisco. The genetic information came from a study of gay men with Hepatitis B. They found that almost 4 percent of these men were already infected with HIV-1 group M subtype B, the most common strain in the U.S. Using a process they termed “RNA jackhammering,” they broke apart the HIV genomes, which were too badly degraded to study, and amplified and recombined them to create usable RNA sequences. They published their work Wednesday in Nature.

With viral RNA from eight individuals in hand, they conducted a phylogenetic analysis, a technique that works backwards using a known rate of mutations in RNA or DNA to find a common ancestor. This allowed them to place the entry of HIV into the U.S. in either 1970 or 1971. The researchers say that the virus first landed in New York City from the Caribbean and spread from there along the East Coast and to San Francisco. It would be a full decade before the presence of the virus was detected, however, allowing it ample time to spread and diversify.

“Even though the samples come from the late 1970s, an early time point long before anyone noticed AIDS, nevertheless, the samples contain … so much genetic diversity that they could not have arisen from the late 1970s,” says Michael Worobey, the lead author of the study in a press conference Tuesday. “It’s kind of direct evidence of many years of circulation of this virus in the United States before HIV and AIDS were finally recognized.”

Once the virus reached the U.S., it spread fast — the authors estimate that the number of people infected more than doubled every year on average. Combined with HIV’s tendency to remain latent for years before manifesting as AIDS, the seeds of a large-scale crisis had already taken hold.

Patient Zero No More

While the vector that brought HIV to the U.S. is unknown, one man, called Patient 0, often shoulders the blame for the disease. A French-Canadian flight attendant, he features prominently in Randy Shilts’ 1987 book examining the AIDS crisis, And the Band Played On, leading many to assume that he was the initial source of the disease.

By analyzing blood samples from Patient 0, however, the researchers say they proved his innocence. When they sequenced the viral RNA from his blood and placed it on the phylogenetic tree they had created, they found that it rested somewhere in the middle. Other strains of the disease turned out to be more basal, or older, meaning that Patient 0 contracted the disease after them, and thus could not have introduced HIV to the U.S. In fact, the researchers say, the Patient 0 term is misleading — he was actually initially referred to as Case 057, and the zero was an “O”, which stood for “outside of California.”

“One of the dangers of focusing on a single patient zero when discussing the early stages of an epidemic is that we risk obscuring important structural factors that might contribute to its development,” says Richard McKay, a co-author of the study.

The researchers hope that their techniques will help epidemiologists to better track deadly diseases in the future, and say that their work highlights the importance of combining historical context with new analytical procedures when looking back at the spread of seemingly unstoppable diseases.

 

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  • Ed

    Healthy young gay men? Bullshit. That’s a myth. They had ravaged their immune systems with poppers, drugs and their damn lifestyles. Ohhhhh but they couldn’t accept it!!!

  • John C

    Very interesting story.

    • kid_you_not

      Muddying the water isn’t interesting. They have an agenda they are pushing.

      • Randy McDonald

        How are they muddying the water by explaining what happened?

        • DaveHolden

          They don’t know what happened. Agree, it sounds more like muddying the water.

          • Carl H

            But to be honest, any idea with complexities will ‘muddy the waters’ if your mind is only capable of processing the world in terms of the rigid ideological dogma that you were spoon fed as a child. It must be challenging to process the world when it all has to be filtered through and be plumb and compatible with religious mythology that somebody fabricated thousands of years ago in a desperate attempt to get pre-civilized mankind to be civil and behaviorally controlled without the modern educational resources to do it the proper way. My heart goes out to the people trying to grasp onto these archaic beliefs of fading relevance in a world that never stops changing. That must be scary for some people. I bet that makes them angry that everything they know to be true is changing and they take it as a personal spite against them and the community who told them that burning bushes dictate morality and an invisible man who lives in the clouds decides our fate.

          • Knoway4

            Carl, the irony is how blind your mind is to your own “rigid ideological dogma” but of course you will defend it because your professor told you it’s true! You’re militant and strident atheism has no foundation other than arrogance and presumption. David Berlinski in The Devil’s Delusion does a great job in pointing out the pretensions of the new atheists such as Dawkins and Hitchens and how they believe they have proved the non-existence of God when they are in fact “not even close.” Berlinski shows how easily they are persuaded by weak or demonstrably false arguments, and the extraordinary lengths that some scientists will go, in the sense of believing bizarre theories, to avoid ceding any ground to the “religionists.” Their loathing of religion also leads them to say some rather stupid things. For example, Berlinski quotes the eminent biologist Emile Zuckerkandl as saying that if God exists, He would represent “something like a pathology of the state of being.”

            Finally, judging from recent history alone I’ll certainly take the morality of the lawgiver who spoke from a burning bush to Moses over that of any 20th century atheist lawgiver such as Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and the rest of the list.

          • Peter

            Maybe everyone who got AIDS didn’t pray enough for this mighty God you speak of. If only he could present himself and cure the innocent.

          • Knoway4

            “If only…” Well the good news is he did! About 2,000 years ago and he’s also coming back. As far as curing the innocent read John 9. Jesus words in Mark 2:16 are also instructive: “And the scribes of the Pharisees, when they saw that he was eating with sinners and tax collectors, said to his disciples, ‘Why does he eat with tax collectors and sinners?” And when Jesus heard it, he said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I came not to call the righteous, but sinners’.”

          • Peter

            What about everyone that lived from year 1 to 2016, they were waiting for his return and never came back, was their suffering all for nothing?

          • John C

            That’s an interesting off topic question. It is addressed in the story of Job. Basically, God’s answer to Job is “how the hell could you understand my plan, you can’t even figure out how to work TiVo.” Well, something like that. Your dog doesn’t understand why you take him to the vet although it’s for his own good, he just trusts you. Embrace the mystery, as they said in A Serious Man. That’s faith. Which you luckily can freely choose to or not to have. There’s plenty of room in this country for everybody.

          • Mike Huck

            trust ? faith ? hope ? why those words when almost ever christian says they talk to jesus ? it cant be faith if your talking directly to jesus it would then be facts and no faith needed..christians are the biggest liars on the planet,,may they go extinct soon

          • Daiv

            Sorry to disagree with you be but………………The Democrat party, their belief in one world government and the UNs embrace of world wide socialism holds the record on lying and turning their backs as millions are slaughtered every day. They are just another unaccountable bureaucracy who blames everyone else for their own fail actions and policies. I bet you don’t know any Christians personally. Just go on believing your bigoted rant and rhetoric. You sound like a Klansman, You too can be irresponsible and unaccountable for you own actions and beliefs (if you have any)

          • Knoway4

            First off, everyone from “year 1 to 2016” unfortunately wasn’t/isn’t waiting for his return; are you? Secondly, those who hope and trust in Christ do not suffer for nothing either now or for eternity for they are adopted brothers and sisters of Christ, co-heirs with Christ of all God’s riches. However, those who do not trust in Jesus have only darkness and death.

          • lindsncal

            History shows that those who trust in Christ have caused lots and lots of misery and death throughout history.

          • Knoway4

            “…your mind is only capable of processing the world in terms of the rigid ideological dogma that you were spoon fed as a child.” Quote of Carl H above. Change spoon fed as a child to spoon fed by your left wing/socialistic professors and the quote is tailored made for you. You’ve obviously taken a very selective history to study and had strong preconceived notions as to what it would reveal.

          • lindsncal

            Here’s some history…
            Joseph Goebbels would have admired Trump. They have the exact same agenda…. Goebbels: “The press is a giant keyboard on which we can play.” ”Truth is unimportant.”
            “There was no point in seeking to convert the intellectuals for intellectuals would never be converted. Arguments must therefore be crude, clear and forcible, and appeal to emotions and instincts not intellect. ‘Fear of strangers is used extensively. Strangers are potent fear eliciters, and especially when they look different and arrive uninvited.” ‘”A lie told once remains a lie but a lie repeated a thousand times becomes the truth.” “If you tell the same lie enough times, people will believe it and the bigger the lie, the better.” “The most brilliant propagandist technique must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over.”
            “The truth is the enemy of the state.” ”The essence of propaganda is winning people over to something so sincerely, so vitally, that in the end, they succumb to it utterly and cannot escape from it.” ‘”We shall reach our goal when we have the power to smile as we destroy, as we smash, whatever was sacred to us as tradition….as education and human affection.”
            “The masses need something that will give them a thrill of horror. It would not be impossible to prove with sufficient repetition and a psychological understanding of the people’s emotions, that a square is in fact a circle.” “We have made the Third Reich by propaganda”

          • Knoway4

            Apparently, you’re confused and think this is a discussion about Nazis and how Trump is just like Hitler. Your run on paragraph and all the simplistic and muddled thinking it represents are the very thing that Godwin’s law describes and rightfully mocks.

          • lindsncal

            If you actually knew how to read, you’d see the difference between what I said and Godwin’s law.
            But you don’t.
            It’s about lying tactics of both to win over little bitty minds.

          • Knoway4

            “We Now Know When HIV Arrived in the U.S.”

            Oh, so in the comment section about HIV in the US you thought it pertinent to let people know that you’re an ardent atheist and opponent of Trump. Ok, duly noted; I’ll file that info straight away in my “Who Cares” file and pull your name from being listed under Goodwin’s Clowns and relist it under “Demented A$$holes” Sorry about mislabeling you.

          • lindsncal

            There is not enough room on this page to post all the b s that republicans spew…and for 8 years.
            Just showing you why they do it and where their tactics come from.
            But…keep up the name calling. It’s what you’re best at.

          • Knoway4

            Nonsncal as you remain confused and forgetful of what this comment section is about let me remind you: You were going to explain how the spread of HIV and the flu “are exactly the same.”

          • lindsncal

            Too simple to even have to discuss.
            They’re both viruses that do not think or pick and choose who they infect…while many ‘Christians’ and republicans ridiculously try to claim they’re merely payment for liberal sins.

          • Knoway4

            If only you were self aware enough to appreciate the idi0cy of your writing.
            First, “too simple to even …discuss” which you then of course proceed to discuss. And right on cue you give a ridiculous simple minded explanation that appeals to the average idi0t.

            Secondly, not even Dawkins who writes of “selfish genes” believes viruses can think or pick and choose but he, unlike you, realizes that humans can and indeed do think, and pick and choose, a distinction any clear thinking person realizes. This fact as well as the fact that HIV is transmitted very differently than the flu totally refute your m0r0nic anti-scientific claim that the spread of HIV and the flu “are exactly the same.” Facts being no obstacle to your strident advancement of the liberal narrative. March on nonsnscal!

            Finally, again, we get it, you’re an atheist, anti-christian zealot.

          • lindsncal

            Ten cities with the highest HIV rates:
            #1 Baton rouge, LA…then.. Miami, FL- New Orleans, LA- Jackson, MI- Orlando-FL- Memphis,TN- Atlanta, GA- Columbia, SC- Jacksonville, FL- Baltimore, MD….notice what they have in common?
            Then look at where the schools are with most religion, the least sex and science education and have the highest teen pregnancy rates.

          • Alec Leamas

            #1 Baton rouge, LA…then.. Miami, FL- New Orleans, LA- Jackson, MI-
            Orlando-FL- Memphis,TN- Atlanta, GA- Columbia, SC- Jacksonville, FL-
            Baltimore, MD….notice what they have in common?

            They’re all Cities with high black populations in States with the highest proportions of blacks?

            What do I win?

          • lindsncal

            And..they’re all republican run states.

          • Alec Leamas

            Republicans give blacks the HIV. I see.

          • lindsncal

            Never mind. You’ll never get the msg.

          • Alec Leamas

            Nor the HIV.

          • macksfield2

            I know you want a boogy man for Christmas. And I guess this week it will be the republicans. But neither democrats or republicans ruined your life. You did.

          • lindsncal

            Hah…..from someone who has never read anything longer than a bumper sticker and doesn’t have a clue about anything and attacks those that do with more bumper sticker b s.

          • Boudicca2016

            That is incorrect. Edwards is a Democrat and last I looked, he’s still Governor of Louisiana.

          • lindsncal

            He’s been there one year.

          • lindsncal

            Oh….B S
            I was ‘spoon fed’ nothing as a child. I’ve merely lived life from all aspects and understand what works and discovered that religious dogma does not.

          • Go Navy

            STFU crack whore baby.

          • lindsncal

            Thanks for showing the world the extent of your intellect.

          • Mike Huck

            especially the southern baptists

          • lindsncal

            Ten cities with the highest HIV rates:
            #1 Baton rouge, LA…then.. Miami, FL- New Orleans, LA- Jackson, MI- Orlando-FL- Memphis,TN- Atlanta, GA- Columbia, SC- Jacksonville, FL- Baltimore, MD….notice what they have in common?
            Then look at where the schools are with most religion, the least sex and science education and have the highest teen pregnancy rates.

          • macksfield2

            hahaha, do you just make stuff up. “Google” one the greatest technologies of our time and also one of the worst things in the hands of dishonest folks. Some decide what they want to believe then google till they find something that will support their belief.

          • lindsncal

            fkng idiot…that did not come from some random site on google.
            do the research like I do instead of childish assumptions.
            don’t bother me.

          • Go Navy

            STFU crack whore baby.

          • lindsncal

            Let me guess…you’re a devout Christian.

          • Daiv

            Why is it, I have a feeling you couldn’t pass remedial math.? Who would even try to find this type of data unless its someone who make things up. I don’t believe the data you profess to access exists in a form that can show any cause and effect on the things you claim. You need to change you blog name to ostrich.

          • Go Navy

            another pathetic, crack whore baby.

          • Daiv

            What history? You sound like a crackpot. I bet you don’t even know what happen yesterday.

          • lindsncal

            Why don’t you go to some remote part of the world and wait for him?

          • John C

            You ought to sit down some time and think about why you have so much anger. Don’t ask me, you have to figure it out.

          • Knoway4

            Typical left wing reaction without a hint of bite or cleverness; Hitchens you’re not.

          • Lorie Franceschi

            I just love it when people pick and choose what exact scripture that want when trying to get their point across. There stories and parables that tell the whole story not just certain verses. If you pick and choose, then you are just as bad in “your” religion as our cousins from ISIS

          • Knoway4

            Did you actually read the two different parts of the Bible I referenced and if so, what do you think my point is that I’m trying to get across. Moreover, I referenced John 9 which is a whole chapter and contains the story of the man born blind. And my reference to Mark 2:16 was really meant to point Peter to another story that adds to and complements the story in John 9. As one who studies the whole of the Bible and agrees with you that picking and choosing a sole or a few verses in isolation from the rest of the Bible can be dangerous. But, in referencing the whole story of the blind man and then another similar story clearly I didn’t simply cherry pick verses to prove a point that contradicts the whole of the Scriptures. You were too quick to accuse me of picking and choosing. I also disagree with your comparison of those guilty in Christianity of picking and choosing with members of ISIS. Also, your use of “our cousins” implies that you include yourself as a Christian so that makes me particularly curious as to why you apparently misunderstood my point. Additionally, how you view Muslims to be cousins to Christians or even Americans if your use of “our” meant Americans is troubling to me.

          • Lorie Franceschi

            When you used the single verse Mark 2:16, you cherry picked something from a whole chapter, even if it was supposedly used to point to another story. As for Christians choosing and picking verses to make a point, you must not be around those that think they are holier than thou where it is all they do. Pick and choose verses to condemn people about their choices. As for Muslims being cousins Christians just a Jews are cousins to Christians, look to the Old Testament. i.e. Isaac and Ishmael, sons of Abraham.

          • Knoway4

            As I lifelong Christian familiar with many types of Christians and all of our various faults and practices I am plenty familiar with the hazards of picking and choosing. What I am specifically asking you is what exactly is the “something” you accuse me of cherry picking? My reply to Peter was in no way about HIV or condemning him for choices he made. I think you hastily and falsely assumed I was using bible verses to accuse him of something. In fact, just the opposite. Plus, when one references a whole chapter the charge of picking and choosing is far fetched. I’m convinced you are unfamiliar with both the stories I referred to and their meaning. I think you were just looking to dismiss me as being holier than thou and an ignorant Christian because of your general opposition to Christianity.

          • Lorie Franceschi

            What I did not like about choosing a particular verse and not a whole chapter is what not what the whole chapter is about. It is the whole chapter that makes the point, just not a particular verse. I have not criticized your Christianity, and I think that criticizing me about my Christianity is inconsiderate. Up til then I was willing to debate you on the merits of choosing and picking verses to try to prove a point, but now that you have condemned my belief system in Christianity you have crossed the line. I defended your right to your religion for six years and only said that i did not like your choice in using a single verse to try to point to another chapter. Discussion over have a nice day

          • Knoway4

            First, you have taken a general principle and taken it to an extreme. I can safely quote Deuteronomy 5: 17 and be certain that stealing is wrong and your insistence that “the whole chapter makes the point” becomes silly. Also, it hasn’t gone unnoticed that you have yet to concede that I referenced the whole of chapter 9 in the book of John before I referenced Mark 2:16 which by the way speaks of Jesus eating and drinking with tax collectors. What negative point was I trying to make by quoting that to Peter? Are you unaware that Jesus frequently quoted small lines of Scripture to rebuke or silence critics and even to Satan when Jesus was being tempted in the desert? I suppose you might lecture Jesus on picking and choosing scripture. Oh yeah, “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.”

            When I can refer back to your post that starts sarcastically with: “I just love it when people pick and choose…” and continues with: “If you pick and choose, then you are just as bad in “your” religion as our cousins from ISIS” I can dismiss as false your claim that ” I have not criticized your Christianity.” I don’t take being compared to ISIS as praise. Also, how could I criticize “your Christianity” when you gave no indication of whether or not you were a Christian. Though I will say most Christians I know would not criticize another Christian who is pointing a skeptic to scripture intended to show how Christ came to save the sick and not the self righteous and that being sick is not always the result of sin.

            Yet again I’ll say, none of my questions to you have anything to do with discussing the merits of picking and choosing verses and its ramifications for proper biblical interpretation. I can’t seem to get that through your thick head however. My only question to you remains what’s your beef with my post to Peter? You accused me of making my point by misusing scripture but yet are unable to even attempt to articulate how I misused scripture, what my point was and how it was wrong.

            Finally, you claim to have: “.. defended your (my) right to your (my) religion for six years…” followed by “Discussion over…” Are you thinking you’re on your dating site or something. As Trump said: “Trust me, your not my type! Your posting was originally just odd in that it had no point then became nonsensical and now you appear to be either delusional or a stalker.

          • christinanolanXD

            Could I ask you just a couple of questions about Jesus and God? Just wanted some answers.

            First, imagine you have a sikh man and a christian man. The sikh man was born sikh and has never heard of Jesus. He gives to charity, he helps the poor and he shelters orphans. By the bible’s logic he’s still going to hell. Now, the christian man is a serial killer, but a devout christian from birth. He goes on a rampage and kills 4 women and on his deathbed shortly afterwards he asks god for forgiveness (which he will get because jesus said you should forgive 7×70 or something).
            Since the only way to heaven is to accept jesus as lord and saviour, and since the sikh guy hasn’t done that, he will burn in eternal hellfire while a killer goes to heaven.

            Another question:

            In the creation story God creates trees before the physical sun. Why? Didn’t he create the process of photosynthesis? Plants wouldn’t survive without the sun, or at least, plants as we know them nowadays. That is, unless some extinct plant was created which could thrive without sunlight. But then he would have to purge the Earth of those and create our modern plants, and if he did do that, why did he leave it out? lol

            Third question: Do you believe angels exist? Like really.

            Fourth question: If Noah had every single animal in the world into a boat, do you know how much animals that boat would hold? The number of species of animals on earth are about 8.5 million to 1 trillion. It’s too hard to even track them down because we’re discovering species every day.
            Did Noah build that ark alone with his wife and kids like the Bible says? Because he’d be building a boat the size of Tokyo (if 8.5 million is correct) and probably as larger than the land mass of China and Russia combined for 1 trillion. Where do you get the resources to build a boat the size of China and Russia? How many trees had to have been deforested? How did Earth’s climate not go crazy? Are there enough trees on Earth to create a boat the size of Russia and China… built by one man… and his kids…?

            Fifth question: Who is killing all the miscarried babies and young children in the world dying from diseases? Is it god? No, he’s too rational and kind, after letting the sikh guy go to hell. Is it the devil? Well if the devil is the one killing us, then surely he has more prevalence over our mortality than god… so shouldn’t you be worshipping the devil, since he could kill you at any moment?

            Last question: do you still believe in the bible?

          • Knoway4

            To answer your last question first, yes I do. The more I read it and the longer I live the more I realize how true it is. No other book, philosophy or religion so perfectly describes the human condition; it’s pain, suffering and longings and supplies the answer to the ultimate questions in life: origin, purpose and destiny. My faith is reasonable; the assumptions (faith) of the atheist are not.

            Constrained by time and space I’ll quickly touch on your first question. The Bible tells us that all people are accountable to know that God exists. “For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities — his eternal power and divine nature — have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse” (Romans 1:20). The complexity of the world around us tells us that there is a God (even though people can suppress that knowledge in their heart). Even those who haven’t heard of Jesus are accountable for knowing that God is. Romans 2:15 says “the requirements of the law are written on their hearts” Therefore, all men can know God exists and have a built in moral compass. The Bible also consistently teaches that God is righteous and all his judgments are righteous and just. Therefore we can surmise that those who have not had opportunity to ever hear of Christ will be judged on if they honored God by acknowledging Him and keeping the moral law implanted on their own hearts. Have they done this: “Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has come. Worship him who made the heavens, the earth, the sea and the springs of water.” (Revelation 14:7)

            Those who have knowledge of Jesus Christ will need to decide if they trust Him as their savior. And of course, God can know and judge the hearts of men so one living in the hope that he can live immorally and without Christ his his entire life and at the last moment repent is lacking a true knowledge of the glory of Christ and clearly is literally risking his life to live a lie.

            I believe in God because He exists and the Bible (His Word) because it is true. “You are a king, then!” said Pilate. Jesus answered, “You say that I am a king. In fact, the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me.” The Christian is asked to answer for why God allows suffering and does so without denying the existence of God or of suffering. The skeptic says God does not exist and therefore sin and evil do not exist. However, the mother of a child who was molested or the father of a daughter who was raped know that evil exists and pretending it doesn’t brings no comfort or hope.

          • christinanolanXD

            Okay, see I’d have no problem with your answer except from the start. Not every religion has a deity. Take China and confucianism for example. That was more of a philosophy than a monotheistic Abrahamic religion. Most people pre-Zoroastrianism (first monotheistic religion) did not have one god but multiple. And it wasn’t their fault. They were just children, as were their forefathers once, following the intuition of their elders.

            For instance, before colonialism Nigeria was pagan. Not their fault, that’s just what they believed in: spirits and deities and the sort. Now, with the advent of colonialism, my family was lucky that they escaped British rule. They lived in a very rural area, far away from the roads, schools and chapels that the British were building, and obliviously practised the paganism of the land that has now been forgotten. Even now, as we moved to England when I was a baby with my Dad getting a university scholarship, I had no clue who on earth “God” was.

            If the Abrahamic God expected us to know and acknowledge his being before the Judaism, why wasn’t every other old world religion monotheistic? Shouldn’t God have implanted that knowledge in us instead of expecting early humans to know what they cannot possibly know?

            Civillisations, prominent religions of the past. They all started out with hunter gatherer families learning agriculture and settling down somewhere. If they saw a comet, they could easily attribute it to the “god of the flying circles”. If they saw a tsunami, they could say it was a god named “Poseidon”. And if they saw thunder they could say it was a god named “Thor”. That’s all religion ever was: a way to explain what to them was the inexplainable. But now we have science and we know that comets and their “tails” are orbiting space rocks.

            But, what I’m getting at here is: if God expected us to know from the start, why didn’t he step in and save all those hunter gatherer people from making meaningless gods in oblivious innocence? Because surely if he had, everyone would be worshipping the exact same Abrahamic god, with the exact same genesis story, the exact same messianic story, the exact same revelation story, and everything in between?

          • Knoway4

            I appreciate all your questions as valid and difficult and dismiss nothing in or about them. The one concept you have not brought up and which I think helps supply a framework through which to address the issues you raise is that of sin. Adam and Eve were in perfect relationship with God in the garden but in disobeying God (sin) brought themselves and all future humanity into a fallen state. Man no longer in harmony and relationship with God but in rebellion – defiled and defiant and no longer innocent. The whole of the Old Testament points forward to a savior, Jesus the Messiah and the New Testament reveals Jesus as Savior and redeemer – the one and only who can bring back sinners into relationship with God. But, those who never heard of Him are judged on whether they lived up to their own conscience, the moral compass all humans have being made in the image of God. Why God chose an unfolding, historical, progressive revelation of the Messiah as His plan of redemption has many potential answers but all are the reasoning and speculation of man. Obviously, God does not supply the answers to all His ways to men and even says in the Bible that man can not trace out His ways nor understand them and that His way is not man’s way. To fully comprehend and know God one would have to be god.

            Jesus did command his followers to go to the ends of the earth to tell all nations about Him – to spread the gospel (good news) of the salvation He brings. Christianity is unique in the grace of God. All other religions and philosophies either deny the existence of sin or solve or overcome the problem of sin through the effort and works of men. Christianity does so by the grace of God who sent His one and only Son, Jesus, who paid the price and penalty of human sin. Most are too proud or foolish to accept this free gift.

            “Martin Luther said that the Bible is the ‘cradle of Christ.’ All biblical history and prophecy ultimately point to Jesus. The book of Mark tells about what Jesus said and did while (the book of) John focuses on the things Jesus claimed about himself. In John are some of the simplest and clearest passages, such as John 3:16, but also some of the deepest and most profound passages. The Gospel of John, often described as a pool in which a child may wade and an elephant may swim, is unique among the gospels. I urge you to “Tolle Lege” – Take Up and Read (see St. Augustine’s conversion) and let the Word of God speak for itself.

          • christinanolanXD

            “The skeptic says God does not exist and therefore sin and evil do not exist. However, the mother of a child who was molested or the father of a daughter who was raped know that evil exists and pretending it doesn’t brings no comfort or hope.”

            And no, I don’t deny evil existing. It’s even more of a reason as to why I don’t believe in God. Why did God allow the daughter to be raped? Because, even if she was God’s daughter, even if she prayed day and night and was faithful, she would have still been raped. In fact, it makes everything much more sad when you know you can pray all you can, but some people are still going to be raped or killed, despite being Christians.
            And before you say, “no!! God wouldn’t allow that!”
            Take for instance, the Dylan Roof guy. A crazy kid who believed in white supremacy, ran up on a church and shot black elderly women who were making their way to Church.

            Why did God allow that? Didn’t they pray? Weren’t they going to pray?
            It seems a little twisted if you ask me.

            Around 6 million babies die every year. Who is killing them, is my question. Because if it’s not God (I’d like to think not, as he is supposed to be benevolent and all-loving, not a killer), then it’s the Devil. And like I said, someone who has a grip over your mortality, has a grip over your soul.

            Picture a doctor aiding a woman to give birth, and she gives birth to one baby at a time for the rest of infinity. If that doctor is standing by and stabbing each of the babies as they leave the mother’s body, who then is in control in that situation? The mother can push out all the babies she wishes but some of them will still get killed. That’s God in this situation – the helpless woman making babies. 6 million of them, to no avail.

            This begs the question: why did God create the devil in the first place, and how did he know to rebel? The Bible doesn’t give any recorded evidence of angels having free will just like humans do. So how did Lucifer somehow decide on his own intuition that he wanted to be sinful? Weren’t angels created to be servants of God?
            But besides that, God is all knowing and can see into the future. If he knew the sheer havoc and bloodshed that the devil would unleash upon God’s OWN CHILDREN, like the pregnant woman, why on Earth would he allow the devil to exist?
            That seems extremely sadistic to me.

            God knew that children in Syria would be bombed, their parents killed. Yet, he still allowed Lucifer to exist. Angels have no free will. And even if they did, he’s God. He can strike Lucifer down for the sake of his children, But instead he allows him to roam free and even gives him the power to ‘Play God’ by giving him the mortality of 6 million babies every year (and this is in the modern medical age. Imagine the numbers pre-Western Medicine and pre-Science), on top of the countless tragedies in the world.

            It seems to me, that either God doesn’t care and likes the devil for population control. Or God and the devil are one in the same, in the image and likeness of man: flawed.

            Fun fact: the Devil visited God personally in Job. I wouldn’t let my kids’ murderer even step foot in my city lol.

          • christinanolanXD

            “Those who have knowledge of Jesus Christ will need to decide if they trust Him as their savior. And of course, God can know and judge the hearts of men so one living in the hope that he can live immorally and without Christ his his entire life and at the last moment repent is lacking a true knowledge of the glory of Christ and clearly is literally risking his life to live a lie.”

            Could you give me the Bible verse that says that? Because I truly don’t believe it exists. Wasn’t Jesus the one to sit with “sinful” taxpayers and pardon the sins of a thief on the cross?
            If our Christian serial killer really meant that final prayer on his deathbed, he will get no judgement for his actions and will live in paradise whilst the Sikh man who devoted his life to making his community better, instead of destroying it like the Christian did through killing someone’s sons, daughters, parents – the Sikh man is going to hell as a thanks for upholding righteous ways and saving his community from poverty.

            I thought God loved all his children.

          • Daiv

            The trouble is you want God to save you from yourself. No one can do that. Some people believe they can behave and/or do anything they please and be protected from all the ills of the world. Not even righteous people expect that. Some people want government to be the God they don’t believe in and punish those who would hold them accountable. Most people reject religious beliefs because they feel it prevents them from being gluttonous.

          • lindsncal

            Ugh….you guys never cease to amaze with your conjecture and phony comparisons.
            There is simply one fact….the more religious a nation, the more violence and corruption.
            Compare the social ills in the U S…..by far the most religious country in the developed world….
            …. to those in those other ‘evil’ developed countries like most of Europe who have very little religion anymore …and remember your religion’s main message….feed, clothe, heal and house the poor and beware of money changers and false prophets.
            Those other countries are far more Christian like, without religion, than we are with lot of it.
            And the GOP…our ‘Christian party’…talk about the Devil’s illusion! Their actions are the exact opposite of Christianity’s.

          • Knoway4

            The history of atheism is any thing but conjecture. You seem to be confusing soft socialism with Christianity and ignoring that Europe was built on Christian capital and capitalism both of which are running out in Europe as it is now falling apart. You seem ignorant of the fact that the more atheistic a country the less they care to have children. The muslim problem in France for example was a result of needing mass immigration to replace the children their own citizens weren’t having. Lastly, the “GOP…our ‘Christian party’…” must be a charge made by some socialist hero of your writing for some third rate rag in Europe with a readership of 150 lefties in Vermont!

          • Daiv

            You guys want to make me puke. Just another anti-religious bigot. The more stupid the person the more stupid the accusation. You condemn and make broad sweeping indictments against of millions of people you know nothing about.. The liberal progressive pukes have sent more people to their death and the gulag than all the ideologies before them. What is your definition of “more religious”. What “ills?” These ills occur in spite of the good will and intentions of religious people. Most of the ills we have are caused by lack of self reliance and a government that coddles and treats their people like 3 year olds and park bears.There is no proof that religious beliefs have anything to do with the mass violence and slaughter perpetrated on mankind in the twentieth century and continuing on into the 21st Century unless you count the current intolerant “religion of peace.” The violence and corruption occurred in spite of the religious dogma of the time. Ok moron, and where do you think the institutional belief that feeding, clothing and healing came from? It didn’t come from the commies. They say it a lot but the fact is if you want to starve and be homeless have a communist or socialist regime and plenty will turn into scarcity. And forced charity is no charity at all. The churches were often corrupt but they held no power to corrupt. However Top-down heavy-hand Totalitarian governments had control over people living under their control have. And lets make it clear there is a difference between being religious and belonging to a church. Once the privileged monarchies lost their grip on the peasants and committed political suicide in WWI the governments that replaced them cared even less. The average person had no civil rights and protections. Fewer than they had under the ruling kings. Stalin and Lenin got the ball rolling with mass executions and genocide of their own countrymen. Hitler and Mussolini where quick learners in the technics of terror and murder. Communist openly hated organized religion and Hitler avoided its embrace. Too much power concentrated in the hands of too few has been the cause of more violence and corruption. Liberals and progress are just plain lazy and devious. They want you to believe there is a perfect one-size fits all big day and mommy government that is going to kiss it an make it all better and give us a safe space to hide under our bed from the big bad religious boogie Man. All religions except the one that’s always acting out . The Turks and Arab countries have made it a cottage industry to euthanize their minorities. Have a nice day you ignorant scatter brain bigot.

          • lindsncal

            Thanks for proving every point I’ve ever made about you.
            Stick to name calling. It’s really the only thing you understand. It’s the christian way.

          • Daiv

            I’m only paraphrasing your name calling rant . Don’t get me wrong I’m not a turn-the-other cheek Christian, I’m not even very religious I just despise hypocritical anti-Christian bigots. You must be the Grand Wizard of anti-Christian underground. Do wear a hood too.

          • lindsncal

            Nobody is more hypocritical than today’s Christians and especially in America.
            There’s a simple fact: The most religious nations in the world are also the most violent and corrupt.
            Explain that.

          • Daiv

            To bad you don’t know anything about Christians or anything else. You just sound like a hateful bigot. With no actual facts or examples you just make a broad brush smear of people you don’t like.

          • lindsncal

            Been researching the for decades and more than likely know more about them than you do.
            good luck

          • Daiv

            Another wild claim of knowledge you can’t substantiate. It doesn’t sound like you know anything about anything including Christians

          • Daiv

            Sounds like you wasted a lot of time. You still don’t know anything.

          • lindsncal

            There have been many studies, from religious groups and churches, about who knows more about the bible…Christianity.
            Every one found that the most knowledgeable were atheists, ..then Catholics, Protestants, etc.
            In every study, Evangelicals were the least informed.
            You too can find this…if you look.

          • Daiv

            You don’t know who Christians vote for.

            So what is wrong with Jesus’ entire message? Charity and compassion to your fellow man are the cornerstone of Christian belief.

            Are you admitting you think people who find Jesus’s message a good one are ignorant?

            Define knowledgeable. ( as in having knowledge of)?

            Did they take a test to prove they had more knowledge? Who administered the test? Did you take a test?

            Many Studies?? Name one study. Were do you go to get information on ‘studies” comparing who is more knowledgeable? Your just pulling nonsense out of your a**.

            Religious societies are more violent?

            You still sound like an anti-religious bigot to me.

          • lindsncal

            So many assumptions and blind response that you deserve nothing more.
            good luck

          • Dennis Spirgen

            Ok, I’m willing to listen, lindsncal. Please provide me with examples of peaceful, virtuous nations that are not religious.

          • lindsncal

            European countries and especially Scandinavians. Iceland, Australia, etc.
            All with now a very low religious population.
            Also the countries who are better educated.
            Or…simply look at the countries who are very religious to see they are by far the most violent…and the least educated.

          • Dennis Spirgen

            Like so many atheists, you confuse church membership with religion. Over 80% of Swedes self-identify as Christians, although the majority of them do not belong to an organized church. Likewise, over 2/3 of Australians describe themselves as religious (mainly Christian), regardless of whether they attend church regularly. Try again.

          • lindsncal

            Asking which religion you identify with is a ridiculous question and means nothing.
            Here’s another way to look at it. The U S is by far the most religious developed country and by far the most violent with the most per capita poor people. If religion/God was brought up by a politician in a speech in a European country….they’d be thrown off the stage.
            Japan has virtually no religion, is incredibly peaceful and has virtually no gun deaths. We have 30,000 a year.
            Throughout history, the most violent and corrupt societies were also the most religious…as it is still today.

          • xiph

            As an Aussie, I would hotly dispute that 2/3 figure.

          • Delicia Ambrosino

            I’m not anti-religious. I’m Pagan and I have something to say to each of you discussing religion whether you believe in God/Goddess or not. This article had absolutely NOTHING to do with religion. So why the mud slinging? I could care less whether you guys believe or not. If you do or even if you don’t keep it to yourselves because frankly you only belittle yourselves and your beliefs or non-beliefs. Each in your own way is throwing stones at a glass house. The one thing everyone needs to remember is that we are human beings. The word humane stems from that. This article is about when HIV/AIDS entered the United States not when God did or didn’t enter your life.

          • Daiv

            You are 100% correct this article is about HIV/AIDS. However CarlH the anti-religious bigot that he is, decided the article was about how much he hates religion and people that have or may practice a religion. Don’t know why, but he did. Wouldn’t it be nice if people could just make comments that specifically dealt with the substance of the article? Once good old CarlH and lindsncal decided to go off the rails I was happy to expand the discussion. Think of me as a disinfectant or Just call me the Devils Advocate.

          • TerryB55

            “Too much power concentrated in the hands of too few has been the cause of more violence and corruption.”

            True with or without religion.

          • All Eye

            Well! Tell the truth will you~

          • thaddeusbuttmunchmd

            …and remember that all the Fundamentalist Muslim nations are Religious, Too, and the unspeakable things that go on there. It’s easy to blame one Faith or the Other, but Religious nuts are ALL Bad News.

          • Kevin E Bennett

            This virus is too perfect of a killer it was created as a biological weapon without doubt and it also turned out to be a profitable one to the pharmaceutical industry sad but so true….

          • Steve Harris

            Do you think FIV and FeLV (cat AIDS) are bioweapons, too? Somebody really hates cats if so.

            This kind of paranoia is not helpful.

          • Delicia Ambrosino

            Now, here is a gentleman who has an intelligent remark to make on the subject at hand. Not a projected subject under the heading of religion. TY sir.

          • Carl H

            I was actually raised catholic and I probably argued with more professors in college to defend my indoctrinated beliefs than agreed with them…at least until I developed the grown up critical thinking skills to willfully come to the rational conclusion that there is simply no reason to believe in something that’s just an old unproven claim simply because the indoctrination came attached to the heart strings of family and cultural identity (ego). At some point I just put on my big boy pants and decided that if God ever makes an appearance, ill take interest in what men wrote about him in the 5th century when the Bible was written. Until then I’m sticking with reality I can rely on and ill leave religion to those who need the child like dependence on a magic invisible holy father to dictate what’s good and evil rather than becoming a true adult and figuring it out based on sound reason, real world consequences and practical human compassion. I’m not an Atheist. I’m agnostic. That means I don’t believe in God on the merits of a man made book, but if he ever shows himself, I’d be more than willing to hear what he has to say.

          • Knoway4

            Like many other “agnostics” you actually seem very certain about the non-existence of God and have a very in-your-face stridency about God not existing and find a way to insert your atheism into just about any topic at hand. You seem to root your identity in your atheism and you honor yourself with with having acquired “grown up critical thinking skills” and having put on “your big boy pants.” But though you claim to be an open minded agnostic in this one post alone those you disagree and who find faith to be rational you deride as child-like – weaklings who can’t make it through life without the crutch of religion.

            I would urge you to re-examine your position from two perspectives. First, from that of Lee Strobel who was an avowed atheist and after his wife’s conversion, Strobel who holds a Masters degree from Yale Law School and was a journalist for the Chicago Tribune was going to examine the evidence and prove to his wife how wrong she was about God. Turned out the evidence proved him to be wrong and he grudgingly became a Christian and is now a Christian apologist who has written numerous best selling books. From the other side, David Berlinski has a PhD in philosophy from Princeton University and was later a postdoctoral fellow in mathematics and molecular biology at Columbia and is a self described secular Jew. He has written numerous books about Newton and mathematics but also recently wrote “The Devils Delusion” in which he skewers the pretensions of the new atheists who claim they have proven the non-existence of God and are the ultimate authorities of life. You should really expose your smug certainty to the full range of the arguments before you continue on in your arrogant dismissal of religious people.

            Finally, God did show up in the form of Jesus a couple thousand years ago and there’s no doubt Jesus existed, that’s a historical fact. The debate is only is he who he claimed to be or delusional and a mere man.

          • Daiv

            You don’t believe? That’s great. I don’t believe either. But many do for better or worse. I don’t believe in heaven on earth. I don’t believe in natural human goodness. I believe in my ability and self reliance and I will leave socialism, Communism and all other isms to those who need the child like dependence on a magical gifted father and leader like chairman Mao, Stalin, Lenin, Pol Pot, Fidel Castor and Obama to dictate what’s good and evil rather than becoming a true adult and figuring it out based on sound reason, real world consequences and practical human compassion. But every has to believe in something to ground their moral and ethic decisions. For the most part our civilization and moral interactions are based and grounded in our religious teaching, It is the code that governs our thoughts even if we don’t go to church or pray. Its really weird how an article on the AIDS epidemic morphed into a discussion on religion.

          • Mike Huck

            jesus christ was a raging pedophile who knew nothing about space or planet earth

          • Go Navy

            You’re mother is a crack whore who works at the Donkey Show Bar in Tijuana. (or she did until the donkey got grossed out and quit)

          • Boudicca2016

            Thank you for your post… You said what I wanted to say, but far more eloquently.

          • Liz

            “your”

          • John C

            There is no reason to be obnoxious

          • Carl H

            When people use the peaceful teachings of Christ as an excuse to bitterly condemn the terminally ill, there is very good reason to be obnoxious. Unpleasant attitudes is one thing. Promoting the acceptance of AIDS as divine justice is morbid and hypocritical to the story of the good Samaritan. These people are horrible and sick and they deserve far more than a snarky attitude.

          • Carl H

            When people use the peaceful teachings of Christ as an excuse to bitterly condemn the terminally ill, there is very good reason to be obnoxious. Unpleasant attitudes is one thing. Promoting the acceptance of AIDS as divine justice is morbid and hypocritical to the story of the good Samaritan. These hypocrites are horrible and sick and they deserve far more than a snarky attitude.

          • lesley.cluffXxplornet.ca

            They are usually Trump supporters too

          • temporary guest

            That’s as good an explanation for following the lead of pied pipers as any I’ve ever heard.

          • Carl H

            Just so i’m clear on your rationale there; making the decision to only believe in what can be reasonably proven, once you’ve learned basic critical thinking skills, is being a follower. However, clinging to a story about invisible cloud men and talking bushes simply because it was indoctrinated in you by your parents and community, is called being a maverick. And in your mind, the culmination of science and education, which has actually proven itself to have real world value through technology and progress that has cured diseases and created this internet were discussing on, is secretly just a brainwashing con to undermine God and further the interests of Satan and his evil henchmen who have possessed all liberals. Riiiiiight.

          • temporary guest

            Wroooong.

          • macksfield2

            Not at all. The fact that you have worked so hard using google to make yourself sound credible, does not threaten me at all. I believe in a Creator of the universe. Any other narrative would be much more difficult to believe. Big Bang, really? Electric spark, certainly you jest? Community clay, hardly. Deep sea vents? all of these theories (with no evidence) require someone to step off of the edge of reason to accept them as truth. Not one of them provides an eye witness account as does the bible. Nothing regarding the Creator of the universe has really changed. Back in biblical days there were doubters just as yourself. Nothing really new here.

          • Carl H

            Religion was created by wise men to keep savage fools under behavioral control to promote civility at a time when he lacked the government and education resources to do it. If you can’t resist the urge to kill or rape without the fear or threat of divine fatherly punishment, then please do continue to believe. I don’t think were ready for a society without religion either. We haven’t evolved quite enough yet. There are still too many people around that would decline into savagery without the behavioral control. Some day religion will be a footnote in history. For now, its a sensitive issue, tied to the heart strings of childhood indoctrination. Its the one delusion that even highly intelligent people can’t let go of because of the emotional appeal. We do need a way to keep religious people who are prone to belief in divine magic from blocking too much progress but life is short and painful so taking away their pacifier is not an option. Humanity will just have to continue to wait until it fades from relevance. Were far from ready for that.

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      • Terri Maslyk

        Agreed. Bottom line. This disease is spread through behaviour, and therefore preventable. We all will reap what we sow.

        • Cassidy

          I logged in just to say to you that one of my closest friends mother died of AIDS. She got it from a blood transfusion. How did she reap what she sowed?
          This is a disease plain and simple. It deserves a cure and we are well on our way. Thank God.

          • John C

            The disease was / is primarily spread by reckless behavior. Children, transfusion patients and others were infected as “collateral damage” by contact with the primary group. But any infected person, irresponsible or completely innocent, needs help.

          • Mr. Nobody

            Thank science.

          • Terri Maslyk

            Obviously I’m not speaking about those who contracted HIV via tainted blood transfusions. 🙄

        • Trotar

          You should probably be happy that you do not reap what you sow.
          Because you aren’t sowing anything nice right there.

          • Terri Maslyk

            The truth is what it is. I didn’t create the laws of physics.

          • Trotar

            What are you talking about. That makes no sense what so ever.

        • katietaylor

          “This disease” is a virus and doesn’t have its own functioning brain to only infect those with bad behavior. It’s a pathogen, not Krampus. I’m not sure if you’re trolling or really that clueless as to how biology works, but lambasting those with HIV is right there on the line of expressing schadenfreude every time a friend you know gets the flu. Yeah, you could wash your hands, but you’d be rather silly to tell people that they “reap what they sow,” as it’s fairly obvious that not all people get the flu because they did something stupid.

          • Knoway4

            I’m certain I know what you’re trying to say but unfortunately it’s not what you actually are. First, obviously a virus doesn’t have a brain let alone “its own functioning brain.” But, humans do and behavior was and is strongly linked to the spread of HIV. You believe that if HIV is at all linked to homosexuality that there will be a stigma attached to the disease so you believe truth and accuracy must take a back seat to your protecting society from its own prejudiced self. Perhaps you are the biased one doing the stigmatizing here. Secondly, comparing the spread of HIV to that of the flu is simply foolish, not to mention a rather off-putting comparison.

          • lindsncal

            Sorry…comparing the spread of HIV to that of the flu is an exact comparison….but then science is that thing you refuse to accept.

          • Knoway4

            Please elaborate on the exactness of the comparison Mr. Science. Now you’re simply openly exposing your ignorance.

          • Steve Harris

            Not “homosexuality.” Just with male homosexuality, which is only half of it.

            God hasn’t figured out how to punish lesbian behavior yet. He’s working on that and will get back to you. That is sarcasm.

          • OWilson

            But if we know that HIV is more prevalent in the gay community, we can take heed ourselves, while sympathising with those of our friends, family, and co-workers who are driven to risk their lives!

            Choices!

          • Terri Maslyk

            Ru trying to say that HIV is an airborne disease? Go back to school. Lol.

        • K. Goldberg

          You mean behaviors like blood transfusion and childbirth? We should reap those?

        • K. Goldberg

          You mean behaviors like blood transfusion and childbirth? We should reap those?

          • John C

            The secondarily infected population (children, transfusion patients especially) contracted the disease by way of random association with the primary infected group, who contracted HIV by way of behavior.

          • lindsncal

            Yeah…behaviour you simply don’t agree with…or understand.

          • John C

            Anal sex and semen-blood transfer with serial partners, as opposed to a monogamous gay relationship with a partner who is not infected. Sharing needles containing infected blood. Heterosexual intercourse between partners who have pre-existing mucous membrane compromise from STD’s.

            Yes, I think I have a pretty good understanding of the primary vectors.

          • Knoway4

            So, is behavior a factor in transmission or not, your post above claimed it was transmitted exactly like the flu?

          • Terri Maslyk

            Want to inform me on how many people contracted HIV via a blood transfusion? If a baby is born with HIV, it’s the fault of the parents. Oh, but I suppose all of those babies were born to parents who received tainted blood transfusions, right?

          • K. Goldberg

            I remember the Ryan White story like it was yesterday. HIV/AIDS decimated Hemophiliacs, and tragically killed many people who had surgery before there were blood tests. The Reagan administration did everything they could to stifle the response to the crisis.

      • folma7

        Always a very real possibility in this socio-political climate.

      • Lorcan Mac Muiris

        Who is “they”?

      • Steve Harris

        Saying it came to the US in 1970 vs. Shilts’ guess of 1976, is not much “mud.” So what? How would 6 years difference help anybody’s agenda?

        • Randy McDonald

          Shilts wrote the book three decades before now.

          • Steve Harris

            Yes. so?

          • Randy McDonald

            It’s entirely possible that a man’s well-founded surmise three decades ago could be fall to later researches. Shilts, among other things, did not have access to these genetic dating methods.

          • Steve Harris

            Yes. Your point?

    • http://www.pornhubby.com BKFREEDOM007

      I truly believe that HIV is a lab-created disease. Since monkeys have very similar reactions to the virus as humans, the monkey populations would have been much more impacted than what they are; would have been VISIBLY decimated by the disease. The scientific/medical community have been known to participate in the most heinous of experiments, and this is one that simply got out of their control. I find it very suspect that the community chose to blame the disease on gays and Blacks, and I’m shocked that others don’t find this, at the very least, baffling.

      • John C

        I don’t think your suspicions really match the science as we currently understand it.

        • http://www.pornhubby.com BKFREEDOM007

          I’m pretty sure the exact same thing was said to those participating in the Tuskegee and Guatemalan Studies. I embrace science, but I remain quite skeptical of the scientific community. This article is proof of why we should all do the same.

          • John C

            Those weren’t bioweapons, they were studies using existing diseases. You would have to assume scientists of the 1940’s could feasibly design a virus weapon in the first place. Or that they would choose to design one that is difficult to spread, which HIV actually is compared to most infections, such as the common cold.

          • http://www.pornhubby.com BKFREEDOM007

            I didn’t mention “bioweapons,” rather a history of the scientific community being less than forthcoming about the intentions of some, as well as those instances where, while there were good intentions, things went awry. I posit the latter when thinking a HIV a mutation unleashed from experiments gone awry. Now, I could also be wrong, but pointing the fingers at the usual (and most vulnerable) suspects is what truly made me suspicious all those years ago.

          • Randy McDonald

            ‘I didn’t mention “bioweapons,”‘

            You actually did: “I truly believe that HIV is a lab-created disease.”

      • dwpittelli

        So the “scientific/medical community… chose to blame the disease on gays and Blacks”? As I recall it, they were always saying that it was just chance that it started with gays and blacks, and they were always warning of the epidemic of straight-white AIDS, while the facts on the ground continued to defy these predictions. At any rate, their perceptions of relative risks are irrelevant to your conspiracy theory.

      • Peter

        Unfortunately believing in something is not enough to prove it.

        • http://www.pornhubby.com BKFREEDOM007

          You’re absolutely right. I”m not encouraging anyone else to embrace my beliefs. Life is too short….Do you!

      • Randy McDonald

        Who made it? How? Considering that we don’t have the science needed to make a lethal retrovirus even now, where did the technology come from?

        • http://www.pornhubby.com BKFREEDOM007

          Mutations, with or without intentional intervention by humans, create themselves.

          • Randy McDonald

            That answers nothing. How did humans make such a lethal retrovirus when, at the time HIV first spread, few knew that pathogenic retroviruses even existed?

          • http://www.pornhubby.com BKFREEDOM007

            Sweetie, there’s much that exists that we still don’t know about; much that is evolving that we’re unaware of even though it’s happening right under our nose. I’m not here to convince you or anyone else, and I’m not refuting what you believe. Calm down and carry on! We’re all entitled to…

          • Randy McDonald

            “much that is evolving that we’re unaware of even though it’s happening right under our nose.”

            So, in other words, you are not going to bother to provide evidence for your claim.

          • http://www.pornhubby.com BKFREEDOM007

            MY belief, supported by evidence or not, is MY belief. Now, dry the f*ck up, and deal with your obsession to be right with your therapist. I don’t give a f*ck what you believe, but I support your right…Is that beyond your capacity?

          • Randy McDonald

            “MY belief, supported by evidence or not, is MY belief”

            Surely you respect yourself enough to believe things which are at least potentially provably true?

      • Steve Harris

        Do you think cat AIDS (FIV and FeLV) were created in a lab, too? Somebody must really have it in for Fluff. Then gone after lions and pumas.

        I’m not even going to tell you about CIAV and EIAV in goats and horses. Your brain would explode.

        • http://www.pornhubby.com BKFREEDOM007

          Yet, we don’t contract feline AIDS or those others, do we? Again, I’m not forcing what I believe, a largely personal and visceral reaction, on anyone else, so give it a f*ckin break!

          • Steve Harris

            We don’t get cat herpes, either, though it causes half of respiratory disease in cats. Macaque Herpes B is another matter: it causes only cold sores in macaques but an 80% fatal brain disease in humans.

            Viruses close enough in species to infect, but not in their usual species, cause especially bad syndromes. SIV/HIV causes no problems in chimps and gorillas. But it causes AIDS in macaques, and also in that funny ape that walks on two legs. Us.

          • Randy McDonald

            In fairness, SIV does seem to cause a lethal AIDS-like illness in chimpanzees. This is not surprising: We are closely enough related that we can give and receive blood donations, so why not infectious diseases?

    • Steve Harris

      Not West Africa. That’s HIV-2. The nasty one HIV-1 came from central Africa. The Congo.

      • John C

        It was a biological perfect storm. If you think about it you really have to be awestruck by the ingenius, creative ferocity of Life to survive and thrive, in this case a simple virus that caused havoc by making us its breeding ground.

    • jonathanpulliam

      Seems your reading comprehension is very poor.

  • http://www.pornhubby.com BKFREEDOM007

    Again, there’s that need to blame, guilt and shame, rather than help. We still haven’t learned!

    • foodandart

      Didja miss the *context* of the article that says that Patient 0 – the gay airline attendant – was NOT the source of the virus or are you just looking to complain?

      • blackberryben

        “By analyzing blood samples from Patient 0, however, the researchers say they proved his innocence”. Innocent of what? Contracting an unknown disease? Is the unnamed Caribbean traveler now “guilty” of starting the AIDS epedemic?

        By many accounts, Gaëtan Dugas was wildly irresponsible, having unprotected sex even after he understood the vector and severity of the disease. But this idea that someone is innocent or guilty of “starting” AIDs is misguided.

        • Rock Madison

          Absolutely. I read Shilts’ book referenced in the article, when it came out in the late 80’s. Dugas was a modern-day Typhoid Mary who stated many times he wanted others to contract what had and didn’t care. Had normal disease precautions such as isolation and quarantine been been possible with those early cases, the disease’s spread might have been less devastating. As with today, identity politics trumped reason and none of those common sense measures could be enacted.

          • Cristen Cook

            What would that have helped? It wouldn’t have made a difference 10y later. The only thing that could’ve slowed the spread would’ve been very early detection, especially considering it was doubling (and mutating) yearly.

            But honestly? Quarantine? For the duration of their lives? At the first detection of HIV or just when it progressed to AIDS (at the lowest risk of being contagious)? I can’t even stomach the thought of quarantine ever being considered a reasonable approach or the repercussions likely still present today.

            I get your point though, besides the quarantine part. I just don’t think it would’ve made as big a difference as we may feel. The fact that it could lay dormant for long periods would be one reason. Without discovery within that first year, it would’ve been catastrophic no matter what. At least, in my opinion.

          • dwpittelli

            “The only thing that could’ve slowed the spread would’ve been very early detection”

            Or condoms. Or closing the gay bathhouses, the irresponsible delay of which took up a significant portion of Shilts’ book.

          • Cristen Cook

            Yes, those are a good preventative measures. Reading the comment I responded to I see I missed where he was specific to earlier detection, which is the same point I made. My apologies to him. Condoms and closing bathhouses would’ve helped, but my point stands: unless it was done within that first year the damage would’ve been done.

            The avoidance, and sometimes outright refusal, of support and recognition by most gov’t officials is sick, but fits very well with the general pretentious separation of classes. Now, the researcher intentionally sabotaging research is nearly the very worst thing I’ve heard.

          • Randy McDonald

            “Had normal disease precautions such as isolation and quarantine been been possible with those early cases, the disease’s spread might have been less devastating.”

            It actually wouldn’t have been. HIV was far too widely spread by the time the first cases of AIDS were recognized for a quarantine of AIDS patients to have any effect. Without knowledge of the virus, there would be no way to track the much larger number of people unknowingly infected.

          • dwpittelli

            That depends on what counts as “less devastating.” We’d still have had AIDS around the country, but maybe half as many people would have contracted AIDS and died.

          • Randy McDonald

            Do we know that? It normally takes ten years for someone infected with HIV to progress to the stage of AIDS. The hundreds of recognized AIDS cases of the very early 1980s were but a very small fraction of the tens, even hundreds, of thousands who were infected with the virus.

            Also, keep in mind that there was no test for the virus until 1984. Any effective quarantine would necessarily be postponed until then, delaying its chances of success. I suppose that anyone belonging to an at-risk demographic might have been quarantined, preventatively, but how would that have worked?

          • Terri Maslyk

            Agreed. This isn’t an airborne disease… it’s a choice disease.

          • mjrnumber13

            You’re the worst kind of stupid. When I was 10 months old, I got burned by hot coffee and needed blood transfusions (In 1981). 5 years later I was in the hospital getting tested for HIV as a result of getting those transfusions. I luckily didn’t test positive, but many others during this time did. How did my choice and the choices of others who were unlucky enough to receive blood during the early years of the disease determine our fate? I’ll wait.

          • modianos

            He won’t answer because he is more than likely too busy thumping his Bible.

          • John C

            Transfusion patients and children were random victims of the primary group who contracted HIV by way of behavior. That’s the medical answer.

          • mjrnumber13

            Yes, I’m fully aware of that John. But once it got integrated into the human population, a lot of people were affected whose choices had nothing to do with their fate. That’s the common sense answer. My entire point was not everyone contracted HIV due to lifestyle choices.

          • Terri Maslyk

            Tell me…. How many people contracted HIV via blood transfusions? Obviously some have, but that’s not what continues the spread. And you call me stupid? Ok….

          • IReallyHatePeoplewithLongNames

            Glad I’m not the only person who created an account just to speak mind about your idiotic opinion. Your post has one valid statement on that this disease is not airborne, but you saying it’s a choice disease!? That’s a first for me. I’ve never heard of a “choice disease” before. Is it caused by a choice virus or a choice bacteria? Or maybe its choice parasite? I bet it’s from an ancient choice parasite from an ancient dinosaur called the Choiceseusaures Rex. Yupp that must be it! People like you are the reason why the world is so messed up. You remind me of those people who rally and scream out bible versus about how homosexuals will be damned for all eternity, because being gay is also “choice” right? How about the women and men who were raped by people, yes men get raped too, who had the disease? But then again, they must have “chosen” to be raped and “chose” to be infected with the disease, and the unborn child must have “chosen” to be born with the disease as well right? Do some research next time before your fingers even touch the keyboard and do humanity a favor and “choose” to keep your opinions to yourself. Now that’s a choice I can get on board with

          • John C

            If behavior (which is preceded by a choice) has nothing to do with it “safe sex” is pointless as a public health effort. Of course you can affect the odds of getting HIV by informed choice. Some people, like in utero infants, no. But for most populations yes.

          • Knoway4

            It seems as if behavioral choice plays no part in the spread of disease according to your sarcastic ranting on disease transmission.

            Just one example from the CDC to illustrate how incomplete and wrong you are:

            • Of people with HIV in the United States, about 25% are coinfected with HCV, and about 10% are coinfected with HBV.
            • Nearly 75% of people with HIV who inject drugs also are infected with HCV

            I see that the behavior/choice of injecting illegal drugs greatly increases the odds of one with HIV also getting HCV. In fact, injecting drugs also increases one’s odds of getting HIV.

            But, back to you who In an egregiously clumsy manner falsely framed the issue as being that your opponent believes that choice lies within the virus or bacteria (the disease itself) when to any thinking person the choice clearly lies within the individual. Your post is really an empty rant with “much sound and fury…”

          • IReallyHatePeoplewithLongNames

            Man I swear stupid people were but on this planet just to test my anger management skills. Mr. John C up there knows how to have a conversation, because I see his point and he sees mine. That’s how adults should talk to each other, and you should take some notes. The reason I went after Terri up there is because she is naive, close minded and lacking knowledge just like you. And after reading your “empty rant” I can see that reading comprehension is still a challenge for you.

            Just because you copy and paste something from the CDC’s website doesn’t defend your argument, especially if your “statistics” are from only one sample set of only people doing drugs that share needles. This just in! People who share needles with each other get diseases! Of course people who share needles with each other are likely to get blood born pathogens (see that, I can use big words too) This is common knowledge that I’m sure even you can understand so there’s no need to post about it to try and argue against me with your “evidence,” just so you can attempt to show off how “smart” you are. Swing and a miss there chief.

            Second, we’re not talking about Hep C or Hep B, were talking about HIV. Again, your just throwing in information that has nothing to do with this article just to make it seem like you know what your talking about. People that do drugs and share needles with each other is the definition of a human choice. They thought about it and still went through with it, but there is always outlier in the data, because choice and behavior is not 100% of the way this virus spreads. Saying this disease is typically spread through “choice” alone is something a thickheaded and simpleminded person would say. For example, the people who were paramedics, nurses and doctors who had no idea about the disease during the time and lacked the necessary PPE to prevent the disease. Some of these people ended up contracted it, but I guess it was their behavior of trying to help someone that made them contract it. Not to mention they probably chose to have the virus as well. Who the hell would choose to get a disease!?

            And for Mr. mjrnumber13 down there. I bet when he was a child and went to go get a blood transfusion, he probably asked the nurse: “hey do you guys have any blood with HIV in it? I’d love some of that. That’d be great.” If your going to respond to me respond to him too. Do I think that the disease is spread by terrible choices? Sure. Having unprotected sex and sharing needles is stupid. But strictly saying that the primary vector for this disease is through choice and behavior. That’s stupid. If you want to talk about a virus that spreads through behavior go look up the life cycle of the aggressive form of the rabies virus. But be careful because there’s a lot of big sciencey words in there.

            The next time your going to try and challenge someone, think about every angle, do research, pick your battles and then come back to me. Until then, I’ll expect for more ludicrous and idiotic BS responses from you that are “much mundane and retarded.” I’ll end with a quote for you: “You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant.”
            ― Harlan Ellison

          • Knoway4

            Well, first off you should thank the Lord that He “put stupid people on this planet” as you otherwise would not be posting. Furthermore, your anger management “skills” need improvement as your anger is still clouding your thinking. And, what you term as a “conversation with John C” and your claim that he “sees my point” in reality was an intellectual smackdown by John C of your point. Moreover, I’m sure you fail to see the irony and hypocrisy of “going after Terri because she’s naive…” after just getting all upright and preachy about how adults should talk to each other.

            To your second paragraph: why so overly defensive about your intellect? (Don’t answer that, that’s rhetorical as the answer is obvious)

            Your third paragraph is more of the same and can be boiled down to this question of yours: “Who the hell would choose to get a disease!?” Of course no one in his or her right mind would choose to get a disease but that is different than saying choice i.e. behavior is determinative in the spread of the disease.

            Now to paragraph four : “Do I think that the disease is spread by terrible choices? Sure. Having unprotected sex and sharing needles is stupid. But strictly saying that the primary vector for this disease is through choice and behavior. That’s stupid.” Ok, so you agree that behavior spreads HIV and this behavior is “stupid” but to say behavior is the “primary vector” is stupid. Ok, so what is in your words “the primary vector” or in mine the main way this disease is spread Mr. thinks he’s an epidemiologist?

            Keeping with the pattern of each subsequent paragraph being a greater logical mess your final paragraph doesn’t disappoint. It’s simply awful but in a spectacular way in that in only a few run on sentences it violates so many laws – spelling, grammar, logic, writing… ! That you quote Harlan Ellison is appropriate as he’s been described as “possibly the most contentious person on Earth”. Add ignorance and arrogance to that description and it describes you.

          • Terri Maslyk

            Maybe ur not that bright. HIV isn’t an airborne disease. It’s contracted through bad choices.

          • Steve Harris

            Worse than that. As a medical resident in 1984 when we knew it was in blood but before there was a test, I suggested blood donations only from women, and paying them to make up the shortage. This was rejected by my hospital pathologists.

            The idea being that monetary inducement would cause granny to lie about her wicked ways (not that we asked about anal sex with bi men) in return for filthy lucre.

            So we took blood from altruistic young promiscuous gay men for another year. Political correctness was served.

      • http://www.pornhubby.com BKFREEDOM007

        It seems you missed the “context” of my post. For you, I’ll add “attack” to blame, guilt and shame. Smooches!

    • kid_you_not

      Blame is important.

    • OWilson

      Blame anything else, or anyone else for the bad choices that one makes.

      It is a cottage industry, that the government is happy to try to “fix”, for you.

      (With your own money, of course!) :)

  • John C

    Some diseases strike randomly, like the Black Plague in the 14th century. Some strike people as the result of their life choices. Like everyone who eats too much, drinks too much or rides a motorcycle. Yes, people do irresponsible things and hurt themselves, but do we not still have a responsibility to care for people who hurt themselves?

    • Terri Maslyk

      Agreed. IMO the irresponsible in society always need the most help.

      • DamienL

        Sweet Jesus — it’s not that black and white. Are you saying everyone who has ever been infected with HIV got the virus because they were having crazy, irresponsible wild sex with dozens of partners every single month of the year?

        Have some basic empathy for pete’s sake.

        • Terri Maslyk

          HIV hasn’t become a social disease, because everyone is receiving tainted blood transfusions. 🙄

          • DamienL

            I’m sorry, what are you talking about? Social disease? EVERYONE? What?

    • Todd Nicholas

      You do realize that the Black Plague was brought on by poor lifestyle choices of throwing leftover food and feces into the streets which increased the rat population which in turn increased the flea population that carried the disease, right? It wasn’t random. It was an unhealthy lifestyle choice….You sir are a closed-minded idiot and are a direct result/cause of how religion and cultural ignorance doesn’t condone peace and love but blame and hate. PLUS, I’d really like to know what kind of diseases people that ride motorcycles get from their irresponsible choices?? SERIOUSLY!

      • John C

        Uh…brain damage, broken bones, things like that. That you’re less likely to suffer if you don’t ride a motorcycle.

        The Plague was actually carried to Europe from Eurasia by infected Mongol horsemen messengers, who likely contracted if from marmots. That’s what the current DNA analysis seems to indicate. The virus became air borne which accounted for it’s rapid spread and lethality. Since viruses weren’t discovered until 500 years later, and the Plague struck down everyone across all social and economic classes, you can hardly blame the victims for poor lifestyle choices.

        And what this has to do with my religious beliefs or lack thereof I have no idea.

  • kid_you_not

    LOL! Is that the Liberal College Girl meme in the picture minus the dreds????? LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I guess Discover magazine has given up any pretense of being unbiased.

    • Randy McDonald

      “Unbiased” meaning … ?

      • Lorcan Mac Muiris

        “Reporting facts” qualifies as ‘biased’ now.

        • DaveHolden

          Pretty easy to lie with facts. Happens all the time.

          • Lorcan Mac Muiris

            A fact is literally the opposite of a lie.

    • Terri Maslyk

      Good luck finding any unbiased liberal media source. They hope we’ll all say, “bahhh”. Lol

  • Surg

    “While the vector that brought HIV to the U.S. is unknown, one man,
    called Patient 0, often shoulders the blame for the disease. A
    French-Canadian flight attendant, he features prominently in
    Randy Shilts’ 1987 book examining the AIDS crisis”

    They neglect to mention that he wasn’t actually believed to be patient zero for quite a while now… but he was however responsible for spreading the disease to many different men. (I believe even after he was aware of his infection and its lethality, and still didn’t take precautions, so his name is far from being “cleared” if you’re coming here from the Reddit post.)

    • DamienL

      There isn’t much proof of this claim. Not saying it didn’t happen just that those claims were from second or third hand testimony. We likely will never know for sure.

  • Valerie

    Patient 0 was still a predator who spread the virus to as many people as he could, and was responsible for a horrifying number of deaths.

  • Patricio Pantheleon

    Clearing out the real story gave justice to patient O who should be called as patient o57. I do hope they were able to continue on with this research and other areas of the medical issues which lacks the sufficient information to cure rare diseases.

  • Hrothgar

    In the comments many are calling for a character “god”. However – so such entity exist. By accepting this, most things become more easy to understand.

    • Peter

      1 like= 1 prayer, is that not how it works? If you pray enough you’ll be saved, no???

  • LiveJoX

    AIDS: you’re as safe as you wanna be. As with drugs.

    On the other hand, it is shocking and obscene that so many resources have been devoted to fight AIDS (absolute record in research ever, with huge difference) with limited success so far, in comparison to other diseases like tuberculosis or leprosy (which could have been easily eradicated many years ago in a rather cheap way, but it still with us). It seems that lives of all human beings are not valued equal. A shame.

    • Supammu Aruchaifu

      Tuberculosis and leprosy are both treatable, and can be cured with a very high rate of success. It would seem a bit odd focus more funds on those than on a disease with a near-zero rate of successful eradication, and many millions infected – nearly 1% of the world’s population.

    • Randy McDonald

      “On the other hand, it is shocking and obscene that so many resources have been devoted to fight AIDS (absolute record in research ever, with huge difference) with limited success so far”

      In that HIV is a retrovirus, that we only learned of retroviruses’ pathogenic existence in humans mere years before the advent of AIDS, and that this is bleeding-edge medical technology, the substantial success to date is noteworthy.

      If you’re arguing in favour of more investment in other degrees, I agree. Who says supporting HIV research and the HIV-infected must come at the expense of others?

  • DaveHolden

    Is that the smug liberal college girl in the picture without her dredlocks?

  • dwpittelli

    Randy Shilts did not claim that Dugas was to blame for introducing the AIDS virus to the United States. Shilts claimed that Dugas spread the disease more rapidly and more broadly than would have been the case in his absence, because he was a widely traveled airline employee and very promiscuous. Shilts also wrote that Dugas continued to have unprotected sex despite knowing he had the disease; that, not homophobia (Shilts himself was gay), was the reason for the vilification of Dugas.

  • Steve Harris

    Okay. 1970-71 is not that different from the 1976 that Shilts estimates using the flight attendant Dugas (patient O53).

    We have a case of a man infected with HIV in Kinshasa in 1959, in what is now the DR Congo. The virus exists (harmlessly) in chimps and gorillas there in west equatorial Africa now, and clearly came from there, whenever it did hop from non-human apes to humans. HIV is a zoonotic virus from the “Heart of Darkness.” But unfortunately this one is far more damaging than Ebola.

    From 1959 is not too short a time for HIV to have spread along African highways, to the Caribbean, and NYC by 1970.

    “The plain and simple truth is rarely plain, and never simple.” (Oscar Wilde)

  • Gerald Wonnacott

    Hokey Smokes, Bullwinkle! An interesting article with new data and everyone with a personal agenda spouts off. Reading comments again proves to be a waste of time.

  • David C Anderson

    It is time to put the record straight. In the summer of 1968 a Seminary colleague and I served as chaplain interns at the NIH hospital in Bethesda, Md. Part of our introduction to the work of the NIH hospital consisted of comments by staff members in various areas of the hospital. One of the staff commented, in I believe it was June of 1968, that they had an unusual situation in one area. An unusually large number of young male patients had been admitted with Karposi Sarcoma, which heretofore had been a vary rare tumor. They were studying why this sudden significant increase in this rare sarcoma was occurring. Years later this very sarcoma was linked to the HIV explosion.

    I believe that in fact the HIV infection began at least by 1965 if not some years earlier, based on the fact that the medical community was seeing such a significant uptick in Karposi patients who were well into the tumor phase. It is time to reset the calendar on HIV origination in the United States. Why no one has spoken of the NIH treatment of a burgeoning number of Karposi patients in summer of 1968 has puzzled me for years, but I feel that now is the time to speak out and set the record straight before advancing years and old age cause me to forget.

    • Randy McDonald

      This is an interesting story. While Kaposi’s sarcoma is often AIDS-associated, it is not necessarily so. It is a virally-transmitted endemic cancer in central Africa, for instance, and AIDS-related Kaposi’s was distinguishable from this older form.

  • General Slang

    This article doesn’t really prove much. There still is a ‘patient zero’. It’s just not the person we thought. This dirty disgusting person is to blame for bringing this terrible disease to our country and spreading it by having unprotected anal sex in California night clubs indiscriminately with many strangers. Those are just the facts. AIDS deserves all the stigma it has earned. Gay or straight, behavior like that is deplorable. The gay community of California, which is well known for these practices, is solely responsible for the spread of HIV/AIDS in America. Hedonism is bad, people.

    • Steve Harris

      They didn’t have promiscuous anal sex in NYC?

      You learn something every day.

      • General Slang

        Of course they did. However, it is well documented that HIV/AIDS first spread in America on the West coast through the gay night clubs, bars, and bathhouses. Only then could it reach the rest of the country and become such an epidemic.

        • Steve Harris

          NYC was full of gay bathhouses in the 70s. And the Stonewall Inn is there, not the west coast.

          • General Slang

            I’m not disputing that there were gay bathhouses in NYC. I’m sure there were plenty of them. I’m saying that AIDS was first rampant in California. They’ve made documentaries about it and even a movie recently.

  • David C Anderson

    It is time to put the record straight. In the summer of 1968 a Seminary colleague and I served as chaplain interns at the NIH hospital in Bethesda, Md. Part of our introduction to the work of the NIH hospital consisted of comments by staff members in various areas of the hospital. One of the staff commented, in I believe it was June of 1968, that they had an unusual situation in one area. An unusually large number of young male patients had been admitted with Karposi Sarcoma, which heretofore had been a vary rare tumor. They were studying why this sudden significant increase in this rare sarcoma was occurring. Years later this very sarcoma was linked to the HIV explosion.

    I believe that in fact the HIV infection began at least by 1965 if not some years earlier, based on the fact that the medical community was seeing such a significant uptick in Karposi patients who were well into the tumor phase. It is time to reset the calendar on HIV origination in the United States. Why no one has spoken of the NIH treatment of a burgeoning number of Karposi patients in summer of 1968 has puzzled me for years, but I feel that now is the time to speak out and set the record straight before advancing years and old age cause me to forget.

    • OWilson

      Thank you for the “boots on the ground” comment.,

    • sciencereader

      This observation fits in with the illness and death in 1969 of 15-year-old Robert Rayford, who had been experiencing symptoms for over 2 years. Medical personnel who treated him thought he might be a prostitute. When he died, some of his tissue was frozen, and later tested positive for antibodies to HIV. There is an interesting Wikipedia article about him, and also an article in the New York Times (G. Kolata, “Boy’s 1969 Death Suggests AIDS Invaded U.S. Several Times”, October 28, 1987).

  • OWilson

    Finally, the slight against male flight attendants is wiped from the historical record :)

    See what a little “science” can do?

  • pknurbrain

    So shortly after the sixties love fest, weiners started rotting.

  • Mike Huck

    the name of that first american to have aids and killing 10000000’s was todd starnes..todd is patient zero0000000000

    • Jakei

      Sick fa$$ot

  • Mike Huck

    ITS HIGH TIME WE PERSECUTE THE CHRISTIANS IN THE USA AS A WAY OF LIFE…DECEMBER IS PERSECUTE A CHRISTIAN MONTH IN THE USA…

  • Martha Bartha

    I remember it was all over the news in the 80’s! I got tested 3 times & I didn’t even study.

  • Cindy Askew

    Remembering the very well written, fact filled chronology of the AIDS virus, ‘And the Band Played On’,was a sequential gathering of all information from every organisation, all over the globe, from Washington, from France, scientists, CDC, Not to mention Dr.’s and Hospitals involved. The book even describes how easy it could have filtered into the USA with the Big 3 Day party of the 1776 -1976 Bi-Centennial Celebration in New York Harbor. . The book disclosed facts, and at that time, the flight attendant did contribute, And the CDC, along with medical scientists, named him 0, trying to get a starting point, a foothold in the specifics of this virus , calling upon a worldwide effort to speedily identify and eradicate, or isolate this contagious virus .and yes, at that time we were looking at a potential global epidemic. That was the first time the United States and France actually worked together in laboratories and I appreciate the hard work they all offered of themselves I’m sure the flight attendant as well, would appreciate them too, because documented reports from some of his partners, he did cintinue infecting others before his demise. And, yes, he was the first ti have died if this virus in the USA, hence, point zero.

  • Kenneth Elder

    Dr Horowitz, a dentist who also has his Masters Degree in Medical History documented that Dr. Gallo the so called discoverer of AIDS was working from 1970-1975 on creating immune system destroying viruses in US Army Germ Warfare Labs under the guise of cancer research as documented in obscure medical research journals. Dr. Horowitz found evidence that pointed to Dr. Gallo being on a team that created AIDS. The method back then perfected by the Soviet was to take two different viruses from two different species and place them at the same time into a third species and sometimes they would combine into a new virus. I had a friend now dead who was one of the first people diagnosed with AIDS in New York City and was still alive in 2004 when he committed suicide after a change of dose of his anti-depressant. He said that he got AIDS in the experimental Hepatitis vaccine given to gay men in New York City and a few other major cities in 1975. Is this report from scientists financially connected to government germ warfare labs? There are hundreds of these labs around the country, probably usually associated with Universities in secret. That would be motive to falsely doctor research to show an earlier entry into the country than the time of that experimental Hepatitis vaccine.

  • Delicia Ambrosino

    People!!!! STOP with the religious arguing. The article is about when AIDS/HIV came to the United States not who believes in God or not and the reason for their choice{s}. Get a grip will you please?? Irregardless of your faith or lack of one there is one thing we all have in common. We are human beings. We are also supposedly adults here. So why the mud slinging over this irrelevant topic to the subject at hand? Why belittle yourselves? To what purpose? Geez.
    The point is that it is good to know when the virus entered as it may help to have that technology down the road though frankly, without consistent testing of everyone coming into the country and putting them under quarantine until the results come through I don’t know how they will use this knowledge to the best of their ability…especially when they don’t even know what they are looking for when it comes to new diseases. One can only hope. HIV/AIDS was and still is quite devastating. We don’t need anything more like it.

  • thaddeusbuttmunchmd

    I’m a physician, and this article is Interesting. However, I DO find it Weird that so many Gay Men were suddenly found to be Ill in 1980-81. I understand the Long Latency Period ten years on Average-(but there are Many Exceptions, where people get sick in three or fifteen years.) There was also much promiscuity back then, and Anal Sex is a Very efficient mode of transmission. But-the Dirty needles of Heroin addicts is quite a bit More efficient, and Blood and Pooled Plasma Transfusions (the Latter given to Hemophiliacs in those years) quickly became Deadly. I’m thinking that this was a cascading phenomena. There were some reports of addicts dying of “Junkie Pneumonia” even in the early 1970s. A Norwegian Sailor got AIDS in Africa in around 1959(!) and infected his wife, who passed it on to their Daughter. All three died in 1976. Their tissue samples were preserved and testing done years later. A Saint Louis youth named Robert Rayford died of it in 1969. Yet-there were NO reports of full-blown cases in NYC or San Francisco in those years. Some addicts did prostitute themselves in places like Greenwich Village. They also donated plasma for cash (you can do this much more frequently than if you donate whole blood.) Plasma Centers were frequently irresponsible, and located in Inner City areas. Gay Men were “Forbidden” from donating Blood from around 1983 until very recently. Besides being Discriminatory, this prohibition would have done Little good in the years before 1985, when there was NO screening test for the Disease. Hepatitis C (spread in similar fashion) was not tested for until 1989! There was an HIV infected Dentist who deliberately spread the disease to his patients in Florida (probably from a Novocaine syringe) and killed several of them. I’m sure that there were patients with Kaposi Sarcoma, etc. who knew they were Doomed, and donated their blood for Societal Revenge. And Gaetan “Not Patient Zero” Dugas was an SOB nevertheless. He continued to be promiscuous after he knew that he was infectious.

  • hardy joseph

    I write as a sign of gratitude to God, i am really happy to be alive today and see the break of another day, I lived and suffered with syphilis for a very long time, I was shy and couldnt say it out because of gender and ego issues, but I sought online and got a testimony from a user of herbal products by DR Ken Roberts, I contacted him and he promised to help me and told me i would share a testimony like the other user, and with his drugs, prayers and instructions I was treated and now i am STD -free! Please be warned of African spell casters and witch doctors, they only add to your problems, pray to God and follow the instructions of Dr Ken, he has the perfect solutions for the following ailments, HSV, HERPES, GENITAL WARTS, HIV 1 snd 2,AIDS, STAPHYLOCOCCUS, HPV, CHLAMYDIA, GONORRHEA, TRICHOMONIASIS, HEPATITIS, CHANCROID, SCHIZOPHRENIA, LYMPHOGRANULOM VENERUM OR LGV, MOLLUSCUM CONTAGIOSUM, NONGONOCCOCCAL URETHRITIS OR NGU, PELVIC INFLAMMATORY DISEASE, PUBIC LICE, SCABIES, SYPHILIS, you can write to him on herbalsbydrken@gmail.com He will surely be able to help you

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