Organic Farming Could Feed the World, But…

By Lauren Sigfusson | November 15, 2017 11:38 am
organic-farming-field-population-agriculture

(Credit: Shutterstock)

The United Nations estimates the global population will reach more than 9 billion by 2050, and, by some estimates, agricultural output will have to increase by 50 percent to feed all of those mouths. So is it possible to do it organically?

Modern farming methods focus on maximizing crop yields with the use of synthetic pesticides and fertilizers, which put off a surplus of nitrogen that turns into greenhouse gases or finds it’s way into waterways. Advances in industrial farming methods are often credited with helping the food supply keep pace with a growing population, but it’s also given rise to concerns about the negative environmental and health effects caused by chemically enhanced crops.

Organic farming does away with synthetic crop treatments, replacing them with natural methods that are deemed healthier and safer for the environment. However, the knock on organic farming has been that yields are lower, and it wouldn’t be possible to feed the world with food that’s suitable to sell at Whole Foods. But that might not be true.

In a paper published Tuesday in the journal Nature Communications, a group of researchers say it’s possible to feed the world through organic agriculture, but it would require the world’s citizenry to adopt drastic changes.

Less Meat, More Legumes

Using an estimated global population of 9 billion people by 2050 as a baseline, the scientists conducted model simulations.  They found that converting entirely to organic farming would require 16 to 33 percent more land. But if we didn’t want to do that, then the world would need to stop wasting food by 50 percent and dedicate all current animal farmland to going organic. That would drastically alter our diets, as the amount of protein from animals would drop from 38 to 11 percent.

And planting legumes could prove important, as they would help replace your missing proteins. Legumes could also help add nitrogen back into the soil. While eliminating the use of fertilizers would decline the amount of  nitrogen, it’s necessary for good plant growth.

“Besides focusing on production, sustainable food systems need to address waste, crop–grass–livestock interdependencies and human consumption,” the researchers wrote in their paper. “None of the corresponding strategies needs full implementation and their combined partial implementation delivers a more sustainable food future.”

That sounds great, right? Unfortunately, it might be overly optimistic.

The Guardian reports that some scientists are hesitant to endorse the new report’s findings, “pointing out that the size of the world’s agricultural systems and their variability, as well as assumptions about future nutritional needs, made generalizations about converting to organic farming difficult to make.”

Les Firbank, professor of sustainable agriculture at Leeds University, told The Guardian these models could be used to as a guide for new policy. “The core message is valuable and timely: we need to seriously consider how we manage the global demand for food,” he told The Guardian.

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  • http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz4.htm Uncle Al

    Vegetation cannot run from predators, so it poisons them,

    alfalfa sprouts – canavanine (arginine mimic; highly toxic to growing mammals)
    broad bean – vicine (hemolytic)
    broccoli – benzo[a]pyrene (carcinogin), goitrin (shuts down thyroid)
    cabbage – thiocyanates (shuts down thyroid)
    carrots – carotatoxin (neurotxin)
    cassava – linamarin (cyanogenic glycoside)
    celery – psoralins (light-stimulated carcinogens)
    chick pea – beta-N-oxalylamino-L-alanine (lathyrogenic factor)
    comfrey – pyrrolizidine alkaloids (hepatotoxin and carcinogen)
    crucifers – goitrin (turns off your thyroid)
    fiddlehead – ptaquiloside (leukopenia, thrombocytopenia, hemolysis; bladder and intestinal carcinogen)
    lima beans – cyanogenic glycosides
    mushrooms – hydrazines (carcinogen; holy Alar, Batman!)
    mustard – allyl isothiocyanate (war gas)
    nutmeg – myristicin (hallucinogen, spasmodic)
    okra – sterculic acid (anti-metabolite)
    peanuts – aflatoxin (hepatic carconigen)
    potatoes – solanine (toxin; causes spina bifida), chaconine (neurotoxin) isoflavones (estrogens), arsenic
    rice – phytic acid chelaating iron (anemia) and zinc (immune system)
    soy – genistein, daidzein, coumesterol (estrogens)
    spinach – phytic acid (chelates iron and zinc – no absorption)
    tomatoes – tomatine (neurotoxin), quercetin glycosides (carcinogens)
    wheat germ – phytoestrogens

    • Erik Bosma

      What about Ricin, Unc?
      Anyways, I thought they wanted us to finish the sentence, ” Organic Farming Could Feed the World, But…”
      So here goes, “…because there is not enough money in it?”
      “…because many ranchers and farmers would have to work more than 6 months out of the year now (ouch!)”
      “…because we could stop eating so much unhealthy red meat and those millions of acres wasted on ranching could all be restored to forest again.”
      “…because no one wants to start investing in multi-story greenhouses yet.”
      and the number one answer, “… because the other solution would be to severely limit the powers of religions that force their poor parishioners to have far more children than they can afford and thereby begin to reduce the Earth’s population.”

      • http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz4.htm Uncle Al

        Ricin? Why would you eat castor beans? Go for abrin, or for maitotoxin and its molecular aesthetics (32 cyclic ethers, 22 methyl groups, 28 hydroxyl groups, 2 sulfate esters) and weight potency.

        • Matthew Slyfield

          “…because we could stop eating so much unhealthy red meat and those
          millions of acres wasted on ranching could all be restored to forest
          again.”

          Restoring grazing land to forest would be counter productive to increasing organic crop production.

          1. Manure is an important input to organic farming. It’s not that they don’t use fertilizers, they just use “natural” ones.

          2. Not all land is equally suitable for growing crops. Most land currently used for grazing livestock is either too uneven or too arid for productive large scale crop agriculture.

        • jhewitt123

          Excellent immunoadjuvants

        • Erik Bosma

          I assumed you could eat parts of the castor bean. Better google it first next time.

          • Maia

            Castor bean oil can be refined to make it safe…it has been used medicinally for a long time, including internally, and externally for certain skin conditions.

        • Erik Bosma

          AH-HA!
          And I quote, “There is no need to worry about ricin poisoning from using or ingesting castor oil, since the poison is extracted from the beans when the oil is made. Commercially available castor oil is not toxic to humans in normal doses, and can safely be used internally or externally.”
          Stop! We’re both right.

      • Matthew Slyfield

        “…because we could stop eating so much unhealthy red meat and those
        millions of acres wasted on ranching could all be restored to forest
        again.”

        Restoring grazing land to forest would be counter productive to increasing organic crop production.

        1. Manure is an important input to organic farming. It’s not that they don’t use fertilizers, they just use “natural” ones.

        2.
        Not all land is equally suitable for growing crops. Most land
        currently used for grazing livestock is either too uneven or too arid
        for productive large scale crop agriculture.

      • Damo

        “…because there is not enough money in it?”

        Then why is it that when I go to my local farmers market a bunch of carrots is 7 bucks (it runs something like 5 lbs for 3.99 at the grocery store) and the organic grass fed beef is 20 dollars a pound?

        Someone is making money at this organic game.

        • Maia

          There are, in EVERY enterprise, those who cheat and those who are honest. In my low-income community, and through many local farms and farmer’s markets, there are fairly priced organic vegetables and fruits, each situation is different, each community. Our local natural food co-op has an expensive line of organic foods to make good food even more affordable.

          • Damo

            Baloney! Organic is always more expensive.

          • Maia

            The hyperbolic word “always” gives you away.

          • razorjack

            Only if you don’t count the costs of illness causes from long term consumption of crummy pesticide laden chemical filled conventional GMO food, headcase.

          • Damo

            My friend says that organic is healthier. Of course, he doesn’t have any proof and lifespans continue to increase. Of course he is an idiot, so I can see why he agrees with you. I am always saying “Ted, you are as dumb as that Razorjack troll.” Which just makes him mad because he is always saying how you are pretty dumb.

          • Maia

            Lifespans are NOT continuing to increase in the US, they are declining.

          • Damo

            Wrong. This year they dipped, but they are on an upward trend. One year is just an outlier at this point.

          • Maia

            We shall see. There are other indicators of a decline. But in any case, you can go on hoping we’ll give industrial food credit for those “longer” lives.

          • Damo

            I am not giving credit to anything. I am saying that if the allegation that conventional ag was killing us was true, we wouldn’t be living longer.

          • Maia

            With a gazillion diseases, average middle aged person taking FIVE Rx, up to 15 in older age. Doesn’t sound like health to me.

          • Damo

            That is because you don’t understand that in the past, those diseases went untreated. Middle age is when your body starts to decline, by old age you should be dead. Proper nutrition is one of the things that allow us to get old enough to need medicine.

          • razorjack

            The U.S. spends more money per person on healthcare than every other country in the world. We have a third world life expectancy about 33 or 34 the last time I looked. Cancer is now the number one cause of death by illness in children aged 1 to 14. U.S. residents are the sickest people in the world by a number of important health markers.

            It is obvious that your claims are smoke and propaganda.

          • Damo

            Nope. We spend more money because we charge more and we have better care for those who can afford it.

            The fact that cancer is the number one cause of death in children is testament to the fact that we eliminated most other childhood diseases.

            What health markers? Obesity and diabetes? Two diseases caused by too much food? Just more proof that we are producing more food at less cost. Get over it, you are wrong.

            Not even Ted would be dumb enough to make the case that we are poisoning people with food, after all if we were there would be outrage in the streets.

          • razorjack

            Come on, Damo. Obesity and diabetes have increased dramatically since cancer causing glyphosate laden GMOs were released without any safety testing.

            A recent peer review scientific study posted on the Nature website shows that Roundup causes fatty liver disease at concentrations over 430,000 times lower than the contamination allowed in the food supply.

            Smart people will investigate the facts for themselves and not believe agenda driven industry PR bots.

          • Damo

            Obesity and diabetes have increased because glyphosate is making food abundant and cheap, you tool!

            That study you are talking about was not peer reviewed and is not on the Nature website. You are a crank.

            Smart people, like my buddy Ted, know that you are a liar.

          • Ted Miner

            Smart people see quickly that you are insane.

          • Damo

            Right. Me pointing out that obesity is an effect of too uch food makes me insane. Just about as insane as you are for thinking anyone was going to believe that you are honestly going to fool anyone into thinking you are my friend, Ted. Hint, if you really want to fool me stop pretending that a monkey’s rear end is Ted’s face. It is not. You should be ashamed for insulting him by pretending that that profile picture is appropriate. No one is as fugly as you are pretending to be.

          • Ted Miner

            We are living longer because we now have electricity, central plumbing, refrigeration, and people are not dying from being kicked by their horse.

          • Damo

            You are a moron. Yes, those are some of the reasons. Some more are vaccinations, proper medical care, and the abundant nutrition that the modern agricultural industry brings us. I don’t know how old you are razorjack, but you certainly aren’t as old as Ted Miner (even though you are pretending to be him). If you were, you would know that food used to be expensive and for some, anything beyond bread was a luxury.

          • Ted Miner

            Antibiotics. Yet the people in the US are the sickest in the world. Your alternative world view won’t be accepted by smart people.

          • Damo

            Sickest in the world? Razor, not only is your impression of my buddy Ted poor, but so is your knowledge of US health.

          • razorjack

            I’m not interested in what you and your imaginary friend talk about, headcase.

          • Damo

            Oh you and I both know that is a lie. If you weren’t interested, you wouldn’t be trolling me all the time.

            Ted says you are not only the dumbest, but also the meanest.

          • razorjack

            See a shrink, headcase.

          • Damo

            Yep, you don’t care at all.

          • razorjack

            I care enough to keep urging you to get professional help for your mental health issues, headcase.

          • razorjack
          • Damo

            Come on, razorjack, everyone knows that that was you writing that and not my friend Ted. As I explained earlier, this is the internet and anyone can pretend to be anyone. In this case it is you, a lying scoundrel troll pretending to be someone else in order to back up his lies. If I am wrong sue me and under oath we will find out who is actually behind your numerous sockpuppet accounts. I can say for sure, under oath, that this is my only username on disqus. Under oath you will not be able to say that the account called “Ted Miner” and the one called “razorjack” are not run by the same person, which is why you never follow through on your threats of suing me for libel whenever I point out that at least one of those accounts is an imposter.

          • Damo

            Also, why are you so obsessed with Ted? Did he breakup with you and now you can’t stand life without him so you pretend that he is still a part of your life?

          • Ted Miner

            Yes. These industry goons have been trolling me and other truth tellers for several years now. They really get upset when they can’t get traction on the industry PR narrative because truth tellers keep exposing the facts and the truth. Thanks for posting the proof.

          • Damo

            Razorjack, why are you talking to yourself? Ted is not going to be happy when he sees that you are pretending to be him.

            That is why he has had it with you anti-GMO types. When you can’t win by being correct, you turn to more devious methods.

            Ted is always saying how sad razorjack is, I guess he was right.

          • TED

            I am always saying “Ted, you are as dumb as that Razorjack troll.”
            Which just makes him mad because he is always saying how you are pretty
            dumb.

            How dare you. Everyone knows I am one of the smart people, unlike that razorjack troll.

          • razorjack

            Flagged for impersonation.

          • Maia

            Agree with all you wrote…except “headcase”. Why don’t I agree with that? Because I really do feel that calling names is counterproductive, whether we agree with the comment/er or not at all. Thanks for your support of a healthier way of farming/eating/living.

          • razorjack

            I appreciate your feelings. I used to feel that way too until I was subject to mindless mentally ill long term harassment from Damo and others who are well know industry PR assets trying to shut down the truthful posters on these threads. This is happening to others as well.

          • Maia

            I know. Not meaning to alienate you. We are on the same side.

          • http://actualtruthteller.blogspot.com.au/ EFFNNELL

            Maia is correct you have been counterproductive to your cause, so much time wasted.

          • razorjack

            Did you and Damo discuss this over the cubical top in your boiler room before you posted?

          • http://actualtruthteller.blogspot.com.au/ EFFNNELL

            No need to discuss, your counterproductivity is well known.

          • razorjack

            So you say. Who are you?

          • http://actualtruthteller.blogspot.com.au/ EFFNNELL

            I go by the name EFFNNELL, who are you?

          • razorjack

            It doesn’t matter who I am. You have made judgement about me and you know nothing about me. You are an industry PR asset troll who is trolling.

          • http://actualtruthteller.blogspot.com.au/ EFFNNELL

            Everyone can see what you wrote, you are counterproductive.

          • razorjack

            LOL! You are a witless troll.

          • http://actualtruthteller.blogspot.com.au/ EFFNNELL

            So much of your life wasted, even Maia the organic supporter thinks you are counterproductive.

          • Maia

            ONLY when names are called, I made that distinction quite clearly.

          • http://actualtruthteller.blogspot.com.au/ EFFNNELL

            Yeah you only got one thing correct in this entire forum and even that was not fully correct.

          • Maia

            And there he goes with the insults, folks!

          • http://actualtruthteller.blogspot.com.au/ EFFNNELL

            The truth is often insulting

          • razorjack

            It is insulting to our intelligence when you say you speak the truth, troll.

          • http://actualtruthteller.blogspot.com.au/ EFFNNELL

            Yes I am insulting to your intelligence, but only because your intelligence is so low.

          • razorjack

            Thanks for proving my point, troll.

          • http://actualtruthteller.blogspot.com.au/ EFFNNELL

            Oh so your point was to prove you have low intelligence, ok then happy to have helped.

          • razorjack

            The only thing you proved is that you are a witless troll who is desperate to try and regains some kind of respectability, and you are failing. All you have is mindless projection and slimy troll drool.

          • http://actualtruthteller.blogspot.com.au/ EFFNNELL

            “mindless projection” , “slimy troll drool” typical razorjack catchphrases.

          • razorjack

            They are labels that apply to your behavior perfectly. You earned them, troll.

          • razorjack

            The only thing you proved is that you are a witless troll who is desperate to try and regains some kind of respectability.

          • http://actualtruthteller.blogspot.com.au/ EFFNNELL

            Hi Razorjack, just letting you know you replied to this comment twice, don’t worry we all make mistakes.

          • razorjack

            Yes I did. I did it because you and your coven of industry goon squad trolls and your troll upvote bots are gang flagging my posts into moderation because you can’t refute the facts I post or engage in a respectful fact based conversation.

          • http://actualtruthteller.blogspot.com.au/ EFFNNELL

            I didn’t flag any posts, I like to leave the full conversation visible to all, so that everyone can see how stupid you are.

          • razorjack

            You are really projecting your pathetic situation on others here again, troll.

          • Damo

            While I respect the fact that you are trying to remain civil, I find it disheartening that you believe that the modern techniques of growing food is somehow causing disease. If you want to make a case that we are growing too much of the wrong foods, I might agree with you. But, there is no evidence that our current methods for growing food are causing disease.

            Food related diseases are mostly caused by over eating or not eating a balanced diet. The exception being celiac’s disease which is autoimmune and affects 1 in 250 people approximately and that seems to be the case across populations.

            If you have evidence to the contrary, please share it, I am sure modern medicine would be happy for the help.

          • TED

            There are no illnesses caused by consumption of GM food remember, nor glyphosate residues in food?

            I don’t know why you keep on with this lie.

          • razorjack

            You are a liar.

            You are the criminal thug thief who stole pictures from Ted Miner’s
            facebook page for profile pictures on your troll sockpuppets. Anyone can see that this is true by checking Ted’s facebook page. I flag every post I see from you for impersonation. https://www*facebook*com/ted*miner

          • TED

            You are a liar.

            No I am not. The largest study of pesticide applicators in the US has just been published and shows no significant increase in cancer associated with application of glyphosate.

            But who are you?

            Why do you care so much about the facebook account of Ted Miner?

            Are you some sort of creepy stalker?

          • razorjack

            Cohort studies are often inaccurate and need to be replicated before they can be taken as serious science. Tell us what happened to the over 39% of study participants that they couldn’t contact for the followup telephone questionnaires the study was built from. he study is speculative rubbish.

            You are the criminal thug thief who stole pictures from Ted Miner’s
            facebook
            page for profile pictures on your troll sockpuppets. Anyone can see
            that this is true by checking Ted’s facebook page. I flag ever post I
            see from you for impersonation.

          • TED

            Cohort studies are often inaccurate and need to be replicated before they can be taken as serious science.

            Where did you come up with this rubbish? This was a prospective cohort study, the most robust type of observational studies.

            Tell us what happened to the over 39% of study participants that they
            couldn’t contact for the followup telephone questionnaires the study was
            built from.

            They left the state or had died. It says so in the paper.

            You are a seriously creepy stalker. Does Ted Miner know you are obsessed with his facebook page?

          • razorjack

            Flagged for impersonation

          • Damo

            Because lies are all he has.

            Lies and stalking your facebook page.

        • Duncan DeBunkerman

          You have to admire the smart farmers who don’t listen to the big Ag chemical industry propaganda and are having some very prosperous years. It’s all about supply and demand, and the desire to stay healthy. Switching to an organic diet is a good investment for smart people who want to take responsibility for their own health.

          • TED

            You admire farmers who sell overpriced food to gullible consumers at the same time trying to frighten them into buying their overpriced food?

            There is something very wrong with your worldview.

          • patzagame

            And whats your world view? The farmers I buy from don’t sell any overpriced food, in fact its comparable to to the grocery chains. IF its a little more ,who cares,its worth it! So TED in red go have a diet coke, a hot dog and some chips,yummm it ‘s so good for you and cheap!

          • TED

            And whats your world view?

            We should use science to develop agricultural practices rather than religion.

            So TED in red go have a diet coke, a hot dog and some chips,yummm it ‘s so good for you and cheap!

            No. I don’t eat hot dogs or drink Coke. But chips, yummmm thanks, don’t mind if I do.

          • Duncan DeBunkerman

            Just what we need, an impersonator to tell us about science. LOL!

            Flagged!

          • http://actualtruthteller.blogspot.com.au/ EFFNNELL

            You have given me at least 100 flags today and counting, so much time wasted, loser.

          • Duncan DeBunkerman

            I only got here about an hour ago. You are seriously deluded, but you are projecting your own stuff on others again.

          • http://actualtruthteller.blogspot.com.au/ EFFNNELL

            No one believes you. not even the other anti-GMO people on here.

          • Duncan DeBunkerman

            Do you have a peer reviewed study to support your claim? LOL!

          • TED

            I only got here about an hour ago.

            No one but a fool would believe that statement.

          • Duncan DeBunkerman

            Obviously sleazy industry criminal thief trolls who are using a stolen picture of someone other than themselves don’t understand the ethical responsibility to align themselves with truthful people who use facts and not idle troll gossip from impersonators.

          • TED

            Another of those sleazy stalkers who has an obsessive interest in Ted Miner’s facebook page. Where did you all come from? Why the excessive interest?

            You really do appear as mentally deranged.

            Go on break out some more of your sockpuppets and do some more flagging. What a complete waste of time and effort.

          • Duncan DeBunkerman

            I’ve just been here for two hours. You seem to be suffering from the kind of mental health issues that make it seem alright to use a sockpuppet profile with a picture stolen from another persons facebook account.You should be ether in a mental institution or jail. You are mentally deluded and off balance, headcase.

            Impersonator flagged.

          • TED

            I’ve just been here for two hours.

            No one but a fool would believe this. All the smart people know you are part of a dozen DISQUS accounts run by a single mentally deranged individual with an unhealthy obsession with Ted Miner’s facebook page.

            You are so impotent, all you have left is a career of downvoting and flagging on DISQUS. How very sad.

          • Duncan DeBunkerman

            Industry goons got the gang flags flying. They also have criminal thieves who have stolen pictures for their profile picture. Why are you so desperate to try and shut down people who tell the truth?

          • TED

            You and the rest of your sockpuppet troupe are the ones who are expert in flagging.

            EFFNNELL wrote:

            You have given me at least 100 flags today and counting, so much time wasted, loser.

            I think EFFNNELL is right about you. You are a Capital L loser.

          • Duncan DeBunkerman

            EFFNNELL is a mind controlled industry idiot just like you are mr impersonator.

          • TED

            No. You are just an impotent old man with no ability to counter their arguments, so you downvote and flag.

            Why are you so desperate to try and shut down people who tell the truth?

          • patzagame

            really? that many? you deserve them!

          • http://actualtruthteller.blogspot.com.au/ EFFNNELL

            Yeah really that many, so much of his life wasted logging into different accounts flagging, down-voting, profile reporting, and nothing to show for it.

            Flags from him don’t offend me at all, he is truly pathetic.

          • patzagame

            you think so? I’m not so sure…

          • http://actualtruthteller.blogspot.com.au/ EFFNNELL

            You don’t think pretending to be 10 different people is pathetic? Do you think the end justifies the means?

          • Damo

            why are you and razorjack going around flagging everyone comments? Are you so scared of the truth that you want to silence it? Also, tell razorjack to leave Ted alone. Ted said the relationship is over and razorjack should respect Ted enough to leave him alone.

          • Ted Miner

            You are a liar.

          • Damo

            ok, razorjack. You are pretending ti be ten different people but i am the liar.

          • Ted Miner

            Yes you are a liar. You are also a troll sockpuppet account that is controlled by the same people as the fake “TED” and “sad little man” You sound more like little Mikey McCarthy every time you post and we can all see your serious mental deterioration over time,

          • razorjack
          • Damo

            THat is NOT Ted Miner. That is you pretending to be Ted Miner. Prove me wrong.

            My friend Ted no longer uses the internet to converse with anti-science people like you. Everything Ted has told me has been in person. He says that you are untrustworthy and like to spin the facts so he no longer communicates via these discussion forums.

            Do you really I am so stupid that I will believe that just because you created a user name of Ted Miner, that my friend is lying to me? Razorjack you are a troll and stop pretending to be my buddy.

          • TED

            This is really Duncan DeBunkerman pretending to be Ted Miner and razorjack. That upvote in the picture is Duncan’s upvote. The only way that could be blue is if this taken by Duncan when he was logged on as himself.

            A complete give away that this is Duncan DeBunkerman is the reference to Ted Miner having the highest respect for Duncan. This is a lie as Ted Miner thinks Duncan DeBunkerman is a dunce and a drunk. I think Ted Miner is correct here.

          • Damo

            Oh I agree. I hadn’t looked at the picture that closely. Ted also told me he gets creeped out by the relationship Duncan has with his twin Cletus. Thanks for filling me in. Ted thinks that Duncan is a creep.

          • E. Sandwich

            Sorry, headcase. That was Ted Miner. I have seen him posting on and off on disqus for years. Most of us have seen that you have an unnatural obsession with Ted Miner. We have seen you go so far as to use Ted’s stolen facebook pictures to create troll sockpuppets to harrass him and other truth tellers.

            Prove that this was no written and posted by Ted Miner. Your claim is a lie, but you could prove me wrong by posting proof.

            You really need to get some help for your serious mental illness.

          • Damo

            Ahh, but Someone else has already proven that Duncan Debunkerman has hijacked Ted Miner’s disqualify account. Why don’t you prove that it Ted Miner? Why don’t you prove that I have a sock puppet account ( you can’t because I don’t) why don’t you prove that you are not one of Duncan Debunkermans many sock puppet accounts ( we now have proof that Duncan is pulling the strings on at least three accounts).

          • E. Sandwich

            No, headcase. nobody has show any proof and they can’t because your claim is a lie that was made up intentionally by and industry criminal troll and thief to harass truth tellers on these disqus threads.

            You made a false claim about Ted and now you are making false claims about me and others. It is obvious to anyone reading that you are a mentally ill industry troll bot trying to run his harassment agenda on these threads. All it takes is proof, not claims, to prove me wrong. You don’t have any.

          • Damo

            Oh but it has been proven, Duncan Debunkerman has stolen Ted and razorjack’s identities. That’s why Ted doesn’t come here anymore.

          • E. Sandwich

            Sorry, headcase. You mental health issues are not proof. You are an industry troll making false claims. Ted was here the other day and this is what he posted.

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/33042144cd62197ae8565e80836478e0b6027fd5c1fa88e23c16ff81d49332af.png

          • Damo

            So, Duncan, you now also control E Sandwich’s account.

          • E. Sandwich

            Stop your adolescent harassment and see a shrink, headcase.

          • patzagame

            We have “science” to develop agricultural practices,phake TED,and so sorry your religion is limited to chem-ag practices,but organic agricultural is using the latest scientific knowledge to feed the populations around the world.

          • TED

            but organic agricultural is using the latest scientific knowledge

            Organic agriculture is stuck in the 1930s. Their first treatment for animal health is homeopathy for God’s sake. Organic agriculture is all built on a naturalist religion.

    • Maia

      Totally missing: most all of these phytotoxins come along with extremely helpful compounds many of which neutralize them. These veggies can be fermented, cooked or naturally processed so that they are eliminated or greatly reduced, and have been for at least centuries by people who discovered how to do this. Also, those who eat all of these veggies always show more health benefits than a meat and potatoes diet.

      Take one example: soy. Things you listed are not “estrogens”, they are phyto-estrogens which are a hundred times weaker than natural body estrogens and replace them, therefore lowering total overall levels. Soy can be fermented (or cooked properly a long time) so that none of these things are a problem. THis is traditional knowledge!

  • Nom de Plume

    Drive through corn country, and you’ll also see soybeans.Why soybeans? Because soybeans are a legume, and fix nitrogen in the soil, and there’s a market for it. That makes it a good crop to put in rotation with corn.

    Following corn with legumes has been a standard practice for a long time. So have cover crops. Farmers know this, which is why farmers do it. This is old news.

    It probably is to Professor Firbank, too, but I’m not convinced he knows how farming is actually done. Before figuring out how to make “organic” farming practical, he needs to know not only how farming is done now, but why. That means actually doing a bit of farming or at least large scale gardening. Then, if he thinks he has a better idea, try it out at an agricultural experiment station and see how it works. It requires actually getting dirty, but a lot of science is that way.

    While he’s at it, Professor Firbank should look into the problem of manures and heavy metal buildup in the soil. It seems to be forgotten now, but was a concern back when most fertilizers were manures. There were some studies done on the problem way back when. Worth looking into.

    • Damo

      The article assumes all nitrogen needs can be met by using legumes to fix nitrogen in the soil. This is untrue.

    • OWilson

      Well said!

      This Iphone Kardashian generation has the attention span of a gnat, and looks for slick, quick solutions, to phantom problems.

      They have no clue how the world’s food production and distribution is finely balanced, and has been gradually built up over the years to a point, never seen before in history!

    • StopGMO

      Such nonsense!

  • Eric Bjerregaard

    If people reduce meat consumption there will be less manure available for organic inputs. Thus as demand rises. Prices will as well. As there is already not enough organic inputs to begin to be enough. Food prices ill rise and many poor folks will go hungry. That is just one of the basic issues with this stupid article. Try calculating the cubic yards of manure/compost for Illinois and then start multiplying. Good luck.

    • Maia

      There will be enough fertilizer if we integrate smaller farms, rather than do monocropping gigantic industrial farming keeping chemical companies happy, but reducing the health of wildlife, humans, rivers, the ocean and soil.

      • Eric Bjerregaard

        We? No we will not do anything so stupid. We want to feed people cost effectively. We also realize that single crop rotations are efficient and can break up pest cycles. We also realize you have no clue how much fertilizer is needed on millions of acres.

        • Maia

          And we recognize your repetitive comabative style.

          • Eric Bjerregaard

            And we recognize your repetitive errors and lack of knowledge.

          • Maia

            :)

          • Eric Bjerregaard

            And we recognize your repetitive errors and lack of knowledge.

        • Maia

          “Millions of acres” is not a farm, it’s an Industry….that’s exactly what is calls itself, over and over. Monocropping is by far the most vulnerable to blights, fungi, insect overpopulations…which has led directly to over-use of chemicals made by giant Industrial corporations such as Dow, Syngenta, Monsanto.

          • Eric Bjerregaard

            Millions of acres refers to the sum of the farms. Industry refers to the techniques and equipment employed by farmers to grow crops. Industrial ones are some of the best. Monocrops are Orchards and vineyards. Failing to rotate crops could also be considered monocrops. Rotating single crops is different. The rotations break up pest cycles. If you dislike giant corporations. I suggest you give away the device you are typing on and your vehicle. than walk to work and classes. Perhaps you can find work on a farm that uses inefficient methods and thus gain some knowledge that you sorely need.

          • Maia

            You might consider letting go of erroneous assumptions— that would be a start.

          • Eric Bjerregaard

            I have made no erroneous assumptions. You have made erroneous claims.

          • Maia

            “If you dislike giant corporations. I suggest you give away the device
            you are typing on and your vehicle. than walk to work and classes.
            Perhaps you can find work on a farm that uses inefficient methods and
            thus gain some knowledge that you sorely need.Your comment contains ”
            This comment contains at least 4 arguably 5 assumptions. You know nothing about my life, so everything you imply is your own assumption based on a stereotype haunting your mind.

          • Eric Bjerregaard

            I know from your errant comments that the comments I make are accurate. You are the one that used the term giant corporations in a negative sense.

          • Maia

            Just one example. You assumed I own a vehicle: own no vehicles, bike/walk, share rides. You are equally off base on your other assumptions. Or are you claiming powers of clairvoyance?

          • Eric Bjerregaard

            Gee, I guess it was radical to think you might own a vehicle. Not relevant to your foolish beliefs though. Unless you don’t have one because of them.

          • Maia

            No, not radical. It was, as I said, an assumption. And it was your choice to mention “vehicles” at all, as part of implying I was being hypocritical to criticize corporations and still drive a vehicle, use a computer, etc.

            You call my experience “foolish” based on feeling threatened by ideas different from your own. You can go on industrially “farming” all you want to and I will go on supporting farmer co-ops and small, integrated organic farms.

          • Eric Bjerregaard

            You are being hypocritical for criticizing corporations while typing on and using the products of such corporations. Also your nit picking will not change the facts. Organic will not feed the world. Ooohey wooohy, you just made an incorrect assumption that your ignorance threatens me. You go ahead and support nonsense and delusions. Meanwhile I will oppose such.

          • Maia

            Great. Likewise.

          • Maia

            Your verbal behavior is that of someone who believes pro-organic people are out to take industrial products out of your mouth. We are feeding our communities and supporting others doing likewise.

            Re: corporations, I’ll just remind you that we were speaking about industrial ag and chemical companies, Which says nothing about “all” of anything. Do you know which company made the machine I am using? The software? The search engine? etc. Nope, you don’t.
            By the insulting nature of your comments, you are apparently compelled to try to prove that pro-organic people are not genuine and not knowledgeable. You have not and you will not succeed.

          • Eric Bjerregaard

            People who think that organic can feed the world are ignorant. Do the math. Where will the organic inputs come from for millions of acres. Organic costs more. Where will poor folks get the money. Organic needs more labor. Where will that come from? If we eat less meat. There will be less manure for organic inputs. Thus those prices will rise. Food pries will also rise. Again, where will poor folks get the money. Re corporations. The specific companiies you are hypocritically using are not automatically less evil becuase you want there prodiucts. Neither are the agr-chemical companies evil because you aren’t educated enough to realize that farmers need their products.

          • Maia

            Neither are you correct nor inspiring things in your chosen direction by continuing to be insulting. Goodnight.

          • Eric Bjerregaard

            In other words you are going to cry and whine because I won’t be nice when you make up stupid stuff.

          • razorjack

            You are getting upvoted y sex bots now, Eric. Cute. I wonder who pics up the tab for that.

          • Maia

            Any upvote in a storm, some say. Don’t agree. :)

          • TED

            Well, Ted Miner likes to use his DISQUS sockpuppet accounts to upvote himself as much as possible, so I suppose you are right.

          • razorjack

            You are the criminal thug thief who stole pictures from Ted Miner’s
            facebook page for profile pictures on your troll sockpuppets. Anyone can see that this is true by checking Ted’s facebook page. https://www*facebook*com/ted*miner

          • TED

            Who are you?

            Why do you care so much about the facebook account of Ted Miner?

            Are you some sort of creepy stalker?

          • razorjack

            I care about anyone who has been the victim of theft by a sleazy industry troll who is creating sockpuppet profiles to harass legitimate disqus users.

            You are the criminal thug thief who stole pictures from Ted Miner’s
            facebook page for profile pictures on your troll sockpuppets. Anyone can see that this is true by checking Ted’s facebook page. I flag ever post I see from you for impersonation.
            https://www*facebook*com/ted*miner

          • TED

            So you are some sort of creepy stalker who is obsessed by Ted Miner’s facebook page?

          • razorjack

            No. I am a regular person and a truth teller who is exposing the fact that you are the criminal thug thief who stole pictures from Ted Miner’s
            facebook page for profile pictures on your troll sockpuppets. Anyone can see that this is true by checking Ted’s facebook page. I flag ever post I see from you for impersonation.
            https://www*facebook*com/ted*miner

          • TED

            You can’t be a regular person. No regular person would show such an unhealthy interest in Ted Miner’s facebook page. Do you have a crush on him or something?

          • Ted Miner

            You are the one who is obsessed why else would you steal my photos and use them as your profile picture.

          • Damo

            I wish razorjack would stop stalking my friend Ted. Rumor is razorjack is envious of Ted’s IQ score, which is an outstanding 3.

          • Ted Miner

            You are mentally ill.

          • Damo

            Flagged for impersonation.

          • Ted Miner

            You are mentally ill. Get some help.

          • Damo

            Yep, you go around pretending to be multiple people, but I am mentally ill.

          • Ted Miner

            You are a mentally ill liar.

          • Damo

            Good try, razorjack, but Ted isn’t falling for it and neither is anyone else. We all know that you are a troll with multiple accounts, you already were caught once pretending to be a grandmother now you are pretending to be my good friend Ted, just because he decided he was tired of lying about GMOs.

          • Ted Miner

            Then it should be easy for you to post some legitimate proof. You won’t because you can’t because your spewing your delusions that prove you are mentally ill.

          • Damo

            Proof that you are a troll? It is easy. Just look at all the posts you are making pretending to be Ted.

          • S.G.

            You are flagging someone who is impersonating themselves? ROFL! I agree with Ted Miner, get some help.

          • http://actualtruthteller.blogspot.com.au/ EFFNNELL

            Stoppy, whats with the name change? Did you realise you failed to stop GMO?

          • TED

            I see you have finally accepted yourself as a failure and stopped calling yourself StopGMO. Well done.

          • http://actualtruthteller.blogspot.com.au/ EFFNNELL

            Also good to see she has dropped the “truth teller” avatar.

          • Ted Miner

            Razorjack is a truth teller. You are a thief and troll.

          • razorjack

            You are the criminal thug thief who stole pictures from Ted Miner’s
            facebook
            page for profile pictures on your troll sockpuppets. Anyone can see
            that this is true by checking Ted’s facebook page.
            https://www*facebook*com/ted*miner

          • TED

            You just wrote this. Writing it twice doesn’t make it doubly true. It just makes you more creepy.

            Does Ted Miner know you have an unhealthy interest in his facebook page?

          • Damo

            Everyone knows razorjack is intimidated by Ted’s superior knowledge of Japanese anime porn.

          • Ted Miner

            Ted Miner knows that you are a thief and a troll who has come here to harass anyone who posts facts that conflict with the industry agenda.

          • Damo

            You have that backward. My friend Ted knows that this is razorjack pretending to be him. He also knows that you are the one trolling and harassing.

          • Ted Miner

            You are the liar and thief who stole my photos off facebook to create your troll accounts. This is my facebook page. Anyone can see that you are a common thief as well as a troll. https://www*facebook*com/ted*miner

          • Damo

            Really? A monkey’s butt? You are complaining because he posted a picture of a monkey’s butt? How sad.

          • Ted Miner

            See a shrink. You are mentally ill.

          • TED

            Why are you using my picture as your avatar? Are you some sort of troll?

            Flagged for impersonation.

          • Cletus DeBunkerman

            No. You are the fake one who stole Ted’s picture off this facebook page. https://www*facebook*com/ted*miner

          • http://actualtruthteller.blogspot.com.au/ EFFNNELL

            Why do you continue to spam us with a link to you facebook page, no one wants to see it.

          • TED

            I am TED. It says so on the tin.

            Why are you so obsessed with Ted Miner’s facebook page? Are you some sort of creepy stalker who has the hots for Ted Miner?

            You need to find another hobby, rather than harassing people.

    • WeGotta

      Idiotic.
      The animals can live a long and happy life on the farm until they die of old age.

      • Eric Bjerregaard

        That was one of your dumbest comments ever. What effect on food prices do you think there will be if farmers feed and care for animals for their entire lives just for the manure?

        • WeGotta

          You don’t understand the topic apparently.
          How much does it cost to feed an animal on stuff that grows for free on your farm as part of crop rotation?
          How much does an animal need in treatments and costs when they can roam around free and eat healthy food that they have evolved to eat as compared to feeding them saw dust and skittles?
          How much more can an animal do on the farm besides just provide manure?

          And the real kicker……”not enough organic inputs to begin to be enough”.

          You’re trying to view everything through your wasteful reductionist lens of agriculture.

          • Eric Bjerregaard

            Nothing grows for free. Taking land to allow animals to graze removes it from production. The animals need to be checked on and vaccinated and parasites need to be killed. there will be vets bills. It is you who do not understand.

          • WeGotta

            HAHAHAHA!!!
            Nothing grows for free he says.
            You’re stuck in old world thinking and measuring everything you see through your limitations.

          • Eric Bjerregaard

            more ignorance revealing that you don’t think.

          • JoeFarmer

            “Nothing grows for free he says.”

            And he’s correct. Once again you have no idea what you’re blabbering about.

          • Eric Bjerregaard

            At least I can think.

          • http://actualtruthteller.blogspot.com.au/ EFFNNELL

            Hi WeGotta do you realise that in the scenario you described the animal is just relocating nutrients not making new ones? Eventually you are going to have to add fertiliser back to the farm, and sure legumes can fix nitrogen but what about the rest of the nutrients required by plants to grow?

      • Damo

        That is probably the dumbest/funniest thing you have said yet.

      • Eric Bjerregaard

        That was one of your worst.comments ever. What effect on food prices do you think there will be if farmers feed and care for animals for their entire lives just for the manure?

  • OWilson

    Having some progressive academic Professor, “managing global demand for food”, is the scariest thing I’ve heard, in a long time!

    • Maia

      I think I understand what you mean about academic managers.

      By the way, my disqus notifications show you upvoted me twice on this thread, but they aren’t here on the webpage. Thanks, in any case.

      • OWilson

        Good eye Maia!

        I did up vote you, but then I took them back because you were a naughty girl!

        (Hope that’s not sexist!) :)

        I thought the quote., “If you dislike……..” to Eric, was yours!

        Here’s an anecdote that may throw some light on “managed” food supplies.

        Back in the 70’s the Minister of Agriculture for the USSR paid a visit my home town, Toronto. He was here to learn about Canadian farming practices. He was taken on a tour of Canadian farms.

        His big question, where are the dormitories, for the peons and field workers?

        It was pointed out to him that these were family farms and most of the work was done by the machinery parked in the drive sheds!

        He was amazed! He saw what freedom and free markets can do!

        He learned well! His name was Gorbachev!

        • Maia

          Given that your intention was, as you say, not to be sexist…it’s simply humor.

          Though we disagree on some things, I respect your thoughtful way of expressing things, without name-calling and hyperbole.

          • OWilson

            I will say that you are relatively open minded, for someone from your side of the political and philosophical spectrum, and I do enjoy our occasional agreements.

            I see you are a writer. That explains a lot!

            And, of course, with this recent army of your fans showing up in full force, I would not dare contradict you today! :)

          • Maia

            Don’t think they are fans of mine, but rather of the small-farm perspective. :)

            Seems like a lot of us who don’t agree on everything could nevertheless end up with respect for each other, if we behaved respectfully and made substantive, thoughtful comments… vs who can out-insult the other. Also, I appreciate that your comments do not all line up neatly under a single label, as mine do not.

          • OWilson

            Confession!

            As you may know I have one other pastime besides this one.

            I am a proud anti-troll conservative, who, once appalled by the hate mongers on public blogs, determined to make them work a little harder for their cliche “opinions”. I found it was fun, so I keep doing it!

            I’m not proud of what I post there, and I hope I’m able to keep the serious side of me here, from being polluted by all that nonsense!

          • Maia

            I hope so, too! :)
            My experience is very limited in that regard, but what I’ve tried did seem to seep into other areas…which I found disconcerting and so I kind of took a vow not to converse in ways online I would not want to happen off-line.
            Appreciate your honesty.

          • OWilson

            As a life long science aficionado, I believe Newton was right when he pointed out that for every action there must be an equal and opposite reaction, in order to keep the universe in balance.

            (I’ve seen what happens when there is no opposition to totalitarianism!)

            That’s my excuse, anyway! :)

  • https://plus.google.com/111658787134687480269 Dan Pangburn

    Plants now must search through 2500 molecules in the atmosphere to find the one they can use to make food. The molecule they need to make food is carbon dioxide. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/39f2cd4609a13d7c4384a4d880fc55bf6dbaf4d69cc679cd91c2216c93078906.jpg

  • Chris Preston

    Having read through the paper, I can’t help but think the model being used is way over optimistic about N supply from legumes. Essentially, the assumption is that a legume crop every 5 years will be sufficient for up to 80% conversion to organic agriculture. In this they have included a high proportion of grain legumes.

    A green manure legume crop will typically provide enough N in the soil to grow about half the next cereal crop and a fraction of the one after that. In contrast, grain legumes (because they are harvested) tend to have close to a net 0 N input. They stop you going backwards, but you don’t get a lot of N for future crop growth.

    The authors also rely a lot on Badgley et al. 2007, for yield gaps. This is a rather poor reference, because in addition to using data from organic systems, they included data from a lot of other systems that use synthetic fertilizers in their organic yields. Most of the authors had no expertise in agricultural systems, which probably explains this.

    Also, Muller et al. 2017, don’t seem to have addressed the issues around pest management. This is all built around reducing food waste by 50%, but most food waste in the developing world is the result of post-harvest pests, rather than consumer rejection. The organic sector has no real effective post-harvest pest management tools, except refrigeration.

    • Jason

      You are correct. It is not possible to supply 5 years worth of crop nitrogen from 1 year of legumes regardless of the type. Nitrogen nodules (the fixing location on the roots of legume crops) decompose & release their nitrogen into the soil relatively rapidly. And once that nitrogen is released into the soil, it is active. It will do the exact same thing that all other nitrogen does. It will get used by the current crop, volatilize into the air or (most likely) leach deeper into the soil profile. Nitrate is a negative ion as are soil particles. And we all know that like charges do not attract which means that the soil can not hold nitrogen for an extended period of time like it can with other nutrients. This is why modern farmers do their best to only apply what the crop can use. All else is most likely a waste.
      Attempting to produce 5 years worth of nitrogen in one year would feed that dead zone in the gulf like you’ve never seen before!!

      • Damo

        This is what I have been saying. Legumes help reduce (even a cover crop that isn’t a commodity crop like soy) the need for fertilizers, but to maintain the current yields, you need inputs!

        Legumes have a minor effect on nitrogen levels (if I remember correctly it is a factor of like 0.35 for the next year’s crop) as organic matter decomposes. But nitrogen is too dynamic to stay in the soil after that plant is decomposed.

    • Adrian Muller

      I may add some comment on the issues raised above: N supply is clearly a challenge

      for full conversion to organic production and we also say so in our paper,
      stating that “ […] additional measures are needed to ensure adequate N-supply on croplands”. We have assumed this 20% legume
      shares, and we recycle as much as possible of crop residues to the fields, and
      also make assumptions on how much of the manure containing N fixed on the
      grasslands may be applied to croplands. The calculations account for loses from
      biomass use on the fields as well as for losses during composting (we assume
      that part of this biomass is composted first). This is then set in relation to
      N requirements and results in this critical situation for N supply as reported
      for very high shares of organic production. We deliberately do not include the
      potential of off-season legume cover crops as an additional source of N (as
      e.g. done in Badgley et al. 2007), as we do not have enough information on the
      viability regarding water requirements, etc. which is one criticism raised
      against this (Connor 2008, 2013). On this, we thus provide conservative
      estimates and we do not quantify the potential of such off-season legume cover
      crops, of recycling human feces back into the system, etc. The bottom line of
      this is again an assessment of the role organic agriculture may play in the
      option space for sustainable food systems; we find, that it can play a
      significant role, and that its lower yields are less central if the whole size
      of the food system is reduced, but that with high shares of organic
      agriculture, N supply will become challenging – just as pointed out in these
      posts. This is also in line with our statements that we need not strive for
      100% organic or so – already 50% could contribute a lot (and is not really realistic
      to be achieved given the current 1% globally) – but this is not a policy paper.
      It is an assessment of the biophysical option space, of which advantages and
      drawback may come with certain strategies, and thus of which options it may be
      worth to pursue further and do more work on or rather to discard.

      Regarding yields, it is important to point out
      that the results reported in the main body of the paper entirely rely on the
      most conservative estimates from Seufert et al. 2012 (25% on average), and not
      on the much lower ones from Badgley et al 2007 (8% on average). We report the
      results with the yield gaps from Badgley in the supplementary information but
      we base the whole discussion in the main paper on the yield gaps from Seufert.

      Regarding food waste: we address both waste and
      loss (using the term “wastage” for both together) and wok with assumption on
      reductions of both of them. This will neither be an easy task, far from it. But
      there is considerably potential to improve on that and it is a kay aspect of
      sustainable food systems to work on this aspect and to reduce demand by working
      on reducing these losses and waste. This again would result in an overall
      reduction of the “size” of the food system thus providing the room for
      production systems with lower yields, such as organic, that deliver other
      benefits, though.

      • Maia

        “we need not strive for
        100% organic or so – already 50% could contribute a lot”…
        Thank you for your nuanced view of this issue— it’s rare indeed…especially on this thread! :)

  • TED

    We both know that you are the sockpuppet troll. I am just an ordinary troll. Ted Miner’s personal troll if you like.

    We both know that you are so impotent that you get your jollies from looking at Ted Miner’s facebook page. I think Ted Miner should be worried about that. What do you think?

    • Duncan DeBunkerman

      Sure thing, headcase. Flagged for impersonation

      • TED

        Flagging?

        Oh yes, you have no counter to the evidence so you resort to flagging to shut down the truth.

        • Duncan DeBunkerman

          HAHAHAHAHA!!!

          Nobody trusts the claimed “truth” that comes form a criminal thief impersonator.

          • TED

            If nobody trusts the truth, why do you have go to so much effort to have it hidden?

            What are you trying to hide?

          • Duncan DeBunkerman

            I don’t hide the truth. I speak the truth out clearly wherever I can. I hide nothing. Every post I make here is available in full context in the thread I have posted to..

            You,on the other hand, are a criminal thief and thug who is using stolen pictures to impersonate someone who you are not.

          • TED

            I don’t hide the truth.

            Your comment history is hidden. You and your sockpuppet troupe gang flag posts to have them hidden.

            I think you are being untruthful. You are obviously trying to hide something.

            to impersonate someone who you are not.

            Who do you know named Baboon’s Butt?

          • Duncan DeBunkerman

            Your comment history is hidden. You and your sockpuppet troupe gang flag posts to have them hidden.

            I think you are being untruthful. You are obviously trying to hide something.

            Who do you know named Damo, headcase?

          • TED

            Your comment history is hidden.

            You are delusional.

          • Ted Miner
          • Duncan DeBunkerman

            Yes. Everything about this fake dude is a lie.

  • TED

    You are delusional.

    You are the one who tries to hide the truth.

    • Duncan DeBunkerman

      No. I am not impersonating another person and using the pictures you stole off their facebook page. You have no concept of the truth. You are a soulless industry PR bot troll on a mission to shut down the truth at all costs.

      You can gang flag my posts and people will still read because they know you are the symptom of he dying industry that wants to hang on no matter the cost to humanity.

      • TED

        You can gang flag my posts and people will still read

        You are delusional.

        You are the one that has been gang flagging posts. You have admitted doing so. Let’s see Ted Miner, E. Sandwich, razorjack, GOOSE, Sparkle Plenty, Cletus DeBunkerman, SUNNY and now you have been on this thread flagging posts so far today. SUNNY upvoted some of my posts in their haste to downvote them.

        How on earth can someone read your posts if they have been deleted? Do you ever think before typing?

        You are a soulless industry PR bot troll on a mission to shut down the truth at all costs.

        You are the one trying to hide the truth by flagging posts.

        • Duncan DeBunkerman

          Sure thing mr imposter sockpuppet troll bot. Everyone can see that your foolishness has caused as mutual destruction on any legitimate conversation on these threads. You don’t care because you are a disposable troll bot that will be replaced by the next version of industry harassment tools.

          • TED

            Sure thing mr imposter sockpuppet troll bot. Everyone can see that your
            foolishness has caused as mutual destruction on any legitimate
            conversation on these threads. You don’t care because you are a
            disposable troll bot that will be replaced by the next version of
            industry harassment tools.

            Delusional no longer seems to cut it. You have gone quite over the edge this time.

          • Duncan DeBunkerman

            I’ll keep flagging the phony and industry PR sockpuppet impersonator troll.

          • TED

            I’ll keep flagging

            See that is all you are good for. Downvoting and flagging. This is all sockpuppet trolls like you can do. So impotent.

          • Duncan DeBunkerman

            The is nothing more impotent than an industry PR bot thief and thug impersonator who needs to troll truth tellers because his industry fears the truth

          • TED

            You have been the one trolling me here. You have stated numerous times that you are flagging my posts.

            What is it that you don’t want the world to know? How impotent you are? Is that why you hide your comment history; to hide your impotence from view?

            How sad.

          • Duncan DeBunkerman

            You alternative mental masturbation doesn’t cover the fact that you are a criminal thief troll and impersonator who is here to harass posters like me. I’ve played your sleazy little game by responding. From now on I’ll continue to flag you for impersonation instead of wasting anymore time with a low life loser like you, headcase.

          • TED

            So you are trying to hide your impotence?

            Truth tellers don’t need to hide their comment histories. Sockpuppet trolls on the other hand do.

            How very sad.

          • Duncan DeBunkerman

            LOL!! Watching you industry thug desperately gang flagging posts is so telling to those of us that see the sleazy game you need to play to try and show some relevance. Keep flagging fake “TED”. You lose every time you hit a key on that greasy keyboard down in the troll boiler room.

          • TED

            Still trying to hide your impotence by flagging posts? If flagging posts is so telling, perhaps you should look at your own behavior. You and your fellow sockpuppet trolls are the one who have stated in virtually every post here that they are flagging other people’s posts.

            You really are dumb. It is so sad.

          • Duncan DeBunkerman

            Anyone can look at this thread and see who is flagging posts. I want you posts left up so that everyone can see what kind of criminal sleazeball thief you are. It is only weak people who need to impersonate strong people. You are a troll and a criminal Joke and you demonstrate the desperation of your industry that need to defend their junk pseudo-science cult ideology from real science and the truth at all costs. Get some help for your serious mental health issues, headcase.

          • TED

            Anyone can look at this thread and see who is flagging posts.

            Everyone can look at this thread and see that in every post you have made, you have stated you are flagging someones post. Hypocrite.

            I want you posts left up so that everyone can see what kind of criminal sleazeball thief you are.

            So that is why you state you are flagging my posts? You really are a complete moron aren’t you?

            From now on I’ll continue to flag you for impersonation instead of
            wasting anymore time with a low life loser like you, headcase.

            You are a liar as well. It is so sad.

          • Duncan DeBunkerman

            HAHAHAHA!!

            You are busted, headcase. Sleazeball poser impersonators are usually trying desperately to compensate for the lack in their lives. You are a great demonstration of that, lowlife.

            Flagging sleazy impersonators, like you, is a community service.

            See a shrink soon.

          • TED

            You have really gone over the edge now. I think it is you that might need to see that shrink.

            I want you posts left up so that everyone can see what kind of criminal sleazeball thief you are.

            Flagging sleazy impersonators, like you, is a community service.

            Who to believe? Duncan DeBunkerman the lying liar or Duncan DeBunkerman the lying liar?

            No wonder Ted Miner says you are a dunce.

          • Duncan DeBunkerman

            Ted Miner says you are a criminal thief and a liar. If you don’t believe me ask him to post a rebuttal here. You are weak compensating phony poser imposter who has exposed his mental illness for the world to see.

            You and the industry goon squad are so desperate to shut down the truth that truth tellers post that you gang flag them down in a frenzy of inept crude desperate futility and then you come back and whine because there is blow-back from legitatme posters who are tired of your dishonest weak compensation sleazebag games.

            See a shrink, headcase. You need some help and you need to get it soon.

          • TED

            Ted Miner says you are a criminal thief and a liar.

            You have just proven yourself to be a liar, so you can’t be trusted on what Ted Miner says.

            You and the industry goon squad are so desperate to shut down the truth
            that truth tellers post that you gang flag them down in a frenzy of
            inept crude desperate futility and then you come back and whine because
            there is blow-back from legitatme posters who are tired of your
            dishonest weak compensation sleazebag games.

            You have gone into full blown nutcase mode. You are not a “truth teller”. We have already establish that you are lying. If you were a real “truth teller” there would be no need for you to hide your comment history.

            Duncan DeBunkerman the lying liar.

            No wonder Ted Miner says you are a dunce.

          • Duncan DeBunkerman

            I’ll drop a message to Ted Miner and tell him what you are saying here, headcase.

            You keep digging the hole deeper. Not only are you a compensating phony poster impersonator and thief, you are also a very dumb and very insane loser who is exposing it all with these mendacious posts.

          • TED

            Ted Miner is going to be upset because I said he is smarter than Duncan DeBunkerman? You really have gone off the deep end now.

            I suggest anyone reading this exchange is going to come away with the impression that Duncan DeBunkerman is a Capital L loser who can’t hold a candle to Ted Miner.

            But then we all know now that Duncan DeBunkerman is lying liar and not a ‘truth teller’. It is so sad.

          • Duncan DeBunkerman

            Ted just wrote and said he would try and get here later to set the record straight. I’ll have popcorn and a front row seat when he exposes you as the criminal liar and thief that you are. Only very stupid people keep up the phony ruse when they have been exposed like you have on disqus, headcase. Industry thugs that need defamation, deception, theft, and slimy negative lies are losers and the industries that support them are projecting their fear.

            See a shrink.

          • TED

            Ted just wrote and said he would try and get here later to set the record straight.

            You are expecting Ted Miner to say you are smarter then him? You are seriously deluded.

            Everyone can see that Duncan DeBunkerman is a lying liar rather than a ‘truth teller’. ‘Truth tellers’ don’t need to hide their comment history. Only sockpuppet trolls do that.

          • Duncan DeBunkerman

            The only sock-puppet troll here is you. You are using stolen pictures from Ted Miner’s facebook page and you have set up at least 2 sock-puppet troll profiles using his pictures.

            I don’t expect anything from Ted Miner. He can tell us all about your sleazy false compensatory attempt to use him as a tool in the trolling of other truth tellers to try and distract from the truth that they tell.

            You must really need serious compensation from something that is small or lacking in your life, sleazebag.

            Pathetic and sort of sad when you see the utter lack of consciousness in your sleazy little egoistic attempts be be something you can’t ever be..

          • TED

            Back to your sleazy obsession with Ted Miner’s facebook page? Does Ted Miner know you are stalking him?

            I guess this is what you self-proclaimed ‘truth tellers’ do when you cannot support your false claims. Stoop to insults. It is all you have.

            It is so sad.

          • Duncan DeBunkerman

            HAHAHAHA!! You must be drunk.

            Ted Miner will speak for himself.

          • TED

            HAHAHAHA!! You must be drunk.

            Drunk? Not me. I am not the one babbling in incoherent sentences, stating one thing in one post and then contradicting that in the next post. Are you projecting again?

            When Ted Miner said you are a dunce, maybe he meant you were a drunk.

          • Duncan DeBunkerman

            Are you drugged? You are certainly not dealing with a full deck, headcase. Phony impersonator trolls are not very high on the social list. See a shrink, headcase.

          • TED

            Phony impersonator trolls are not very high on the social list.

            You are not making any sense. Perhaps it is time you went to bed and slept it off?

          • Duncan DeBunkerman

            No. I have nothing to sleep off. You are the dumb one who keeps digging the hole deeper, fake “TED”.

          • TED

            No. I have nothing to sleep off.

            Ted Miner told me that Alcoholics Anonymous is good for overcoming the sort of problem that you have. It also helps with overcoming denial. You should try them.

          • Duncan DeBunkerman

            See a shrink, headcase.

          • TED

            More insults.

            Ted Miner did say you were a dunce, or maybe it was a drunk.

          • Duncan DeBunkerman

            Sure he did, headcase.

            Keep digging and see a shrink.

          • TED

            More insults?

            I am starting to believe Ted Miner was right about you.

          • Duncan DeBunkerman

            You are a living insult to humanity, headcase. See a shrink.

          • TED

            More insults?

            Ted Miner was definitely right about you. You really should sign up to Alcoholics Anonymous.

          • Duncan DeBunkerman

            More projection. I am not the compensating criminal thief impersonating some one to harass other people, headcase. You are a sick sleazy dude with no life. Keep digging … lol!

          • TED

            No projection needed. You are the one writing incoherent insults on the internet late at night.

            Your complete and utter failure to make yourself understood and to address the issues, suggests a drinking problem.

            When I thought Ted Miner called you a dunce, obviously I must have misheard. Or perhaps he meant both. You are a drunk dunce.

          • Duncan DeBunkerman

            More great projection. We can all wait for Ted to speak for himself.

            See a shrink soon, headcase.

          • TED

            You have been promising Ted Miner for more than 6 hours. I don’t think anyone believes you.

            Everyone now knows you are not a ‘truth teller’, but an ordinary liar.

            I think you have been drinking too much and the best thing would be to go and sleep it off.

          • Duncan DeBunkerman

            I haven’t promised anything I said Ted said he would try and drop by later.

            Everybody knows that you are a criminal thief who uses stolen facebook pictures to impersonate and troll decent people.

            I wish Ted had gotten here to, and he likely will. I’ve got a big day tomorrow and a good nights sleep is more important than covering with a lowlife industry sponsored poser imposter.

            See a shrink, Headcase.

          • TED

            A big day of drinking tomorrow?

            You have managed to spend a whole evening rambling incoherently on the internet. What a loser.

            Given how incoherent you are, you should have been sleeping it off hours ago.

            It is quite clear you have no influence with Ted Miner. No wonder Ted Miner says you are a dunce.

          • Ted Miner

            You are a coward and a liar who is hiding behind my stolen photograph here. Duncan has a lot influence with me as well as my respect and admiration as do other truth tellers.

            Take your sleazy low life act and shove it where the sun doesn’t shine. It is obvious that you are a compensating mental health case with absolutely no morals of ethic values.

          • TED

            We all know that you are really Duncan DeBunkerman pretending to be Ted Miner. I mean really. No-one would ever claim that someone as dumb as Duncan Debunkerman had a lot of influence with them, would they? That is a dead give-away.

            The rest of your comment just shows what happens when you start drinking early in the day. You start ranting incoherently.

          • Duncan DeBunkerman

            Hahhahaha!! You are the biggest phony on disqus!

          • TED

            I see you have admitted that the Ted Miner DISQUS account is really you pretending to be Ted Miner. Of course we all know this is you. Ted Miner says Duncan DeBunkerman is a dunce. He wouldn’t then go around saying how much he respected Duncan DeBunkerman. That bit was a dead give-away on your part.

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/4cbd3af991a1308684096dd091a13a1ba2777e40bae93d1bbfc8ee646922bb53.jpg

          • razorjack

            You can keep posting the same lies forever, but everyone knows you are a criminal thug thief who stole Ted Miners photo off his facebook page. You are a coward who needs to hide behind a stolen photo you are using for a profile picture.

            This is what Ted Miner has to say about you. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/33042144cd62197ae8565e80836478e0b6027fd5c1fa88e23c16ff81d49332af.png

          • TED

            We all know this is you Duncan DeBunkerman. You have the same obsessive interest in Ted Miner’s facebook page. I think the fact that you are stalking Ted Miner on the internet is why he doesn’t like you.

          • razorjack

            Nope. We all know that you are an insane coward who needs to create profiles using stolen pictures from Ted Miner’s facebook page to hide behind. You are a cowardly criminal thug who can not expose his true identity for fear of being sued for defamation and other crimes against innocent https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/33042144cd62197ae8565e80836478e0b6027fd5c1fa88e23c16ff81d49332af.png people.

            Here is what Ted Miner has to say about you.

          • TED

            You have just shown us that you are Duncan DeBunkerman. The same obsessive interest in Ted Miner’s facebook page. The same incoherent booze-filled babbling.

            I know you have the hots for Ted Miner, Duncan, but I don’t think he is interested in you. I think he is more interested in Sparkle Plenty. I am sorry to have to break this to you, but I am sure if you asked Ted he would state that he thinks more of Sparkle Plenty than he does of you.

          • razorjack

            HAHAHAHAHAHA !!!

            No. You are projecting your own cowardly insane criminal thug behavior on other people. You are a cowardly thief who need to hide behind the image of a true truth teller because you can’t expose your real identity here with out fear of being prosecuted and sued for your sleazy criminal acts.

            Here is what Ted Miner has to say about you.

          • TED

            Spilled your booze on the keyboard there did you Duncan?

          • razorjack

            Is that the best a cowardly impersonator who hasn’t got the balls to show his own face can come up with.

            Pitiful and pathetic.

            He is what Ted Miner has to say about you, the thief, who is hiding behind the photos of him you stole off his facebook page.

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/33042144cd62197ae8565e80836478e0b6027fd5c1fa88e23c16ff81d49332af.png

          • TED

            Is that the best a cowardly impersonator who hasn’t got the balls to show his own face can come up with.

            Writes someone hiding behind a pseudonym and an avatar of intestinal worms.

            Look Duncan, I think the booze is addling your brain more than usual. Ted Miner doesn’t want you. My guess is that he is poking Sparkle Plenty. They are probably doing it now. I know this will make you sda, but it is best to get over it and stop stalking Ted Miner.

          • razorjack

            Is that the best a cowardly impersonator who hasn’t got the intestinal fortitude to show his own face can come up with.

            Pitiful and pathetic.

            He is what Ted Miner has to say about you, the thief, who is hiding behind the photos of him you stole off his facebook page. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/33042144cd62197ae8565e80836478e0b6027fd5c1fa88e23c16ff81d49332af.png

          • razorjack

            Cowardly impersonators and their criminal sponsors are desperate to gang flag truth tellers who’s truth they can refute.

          • TED

            Duncan DeBunkerman, you are not a ‘truth teller’. You are a lying liar.

            On this very thread you stated wearing your Duncan DeBunkerman outfit:

            I want you posts left up so that everyone can see what kind of criminal sleazeball thief you are.

            And

            Flagging sleazy impersonators, like you, is a community service.

            Now you have to agree that both those claims cannot be correct. As I said at the time: Who to believe? Duncan DeBunkerman the lying liar or Duncan DeBunkerman the lying liar?

            No wonder Ted Miner says you are a dunce.

          • E. Sandwich

            Why do you continue to disrespect Discover readers here?

            You are a liar a troll and a thief and this is what Ted Miner really says about you.
            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/33042144cd62197ae8565e80836478e0b6027fd5c1fa88e23c16ff81d49332af.png

          • TED

            That is not Ted Miner. That is Duncan DeBunkerman pretending to be Ted Miner. You can see it is Duncan pretending, because Ted Miner would never say he respects Duncan DeBunkerman. Ted Miner think that Duncan DeBunkerman is a dunce.

            What I want to know is how you have a picture of the post with Duncan DeeBunkerman’s upvote on it? You are not another account of that drunk Duncan DeBunkerman?

          • SUNNY
          • TED

            So what happened to your Egg Sandwich account Duncan?

            Look Duncan DeBunkerman, we all know you are not very bright, but posting the same picture with your own upvote on it is, well, just dumb.

            I was only talking to Ted Miner the other day and he said what a dunce you were and he would really like you to stop stalking him.

          • Peaceful Warrior
          • TED

            Look Duncan DeBunkerman you are not fooling anyone, least of all Ted Miner. Ted Miner
            always said you were a dunce and here you are proving it again.

            This picture has Duncan DeBunkerma’s upvote on it. We all know this is you.

            I am sorry that Ted Miner is not returning your advances, but that is no reason to stalk his facebook page.

          • TED

            Yet another sockpuppet account, Duncan DeBunkerman?

            Look everyone knows this is you. They can see your upvote on it? Why do you insist on lying about this?

          • razorjack

            You are a liar.

            Ted Miner to you:

            “You are a fake and a
            liar “TED”. Everything you said about me is lies. I have never said
            Duncan or anyone else is a dunce or anything you would be aware of. I
            have never talked to you or the other industry goons anywhere but on
            these discus threads.

            Here are the facts:

            I have been on my facebook page for 9 years. https://www*facebook*com/ted*miner

            I have had this Disqus profile for over 4 and ½ years. https://disqus*com/by/tedminer/

            You have created at least 2 fake accounts using photos that you stole from my facebook page for profile pictures.

            This
            one https://disqus*com/by/Baboonsbutt/ And A Sad Little Man
            https://disqus*com/by/asadlittleman/ Both these accounts we set up
            less than 3 months ago.

            You have repeatedly lied and claimed I
            have said something I haven’t you are not the only one. Damo, GMORobert,
            and others have also made these false claims.

            I have the highest
            respect for the truth tellers like Duncan and the others who you have
            harassed with your false claims and lies.

            You have never spoken
            for me. You never will speak for me and neither with the other industry
            trolls who are playing your silly adolescent troll game. Every time you
            post you your lies you are defaming me and the others.

            You are a
            criminal thug thief troll who is obviously seriously deranged of insane
            or else is a compensated dis-info psych-op agent.

            You are low life criminal thief and a total creep who needs to get help for his serious mental health issues.”

          • TED

            Duncan DeBunkerman everyone knows this is you posting as razorjack.

            The give away is that Ted Miner thinks Duncan DeBunkerman is a dunce, he has told me so. Ted Miner would never say he respects Duncan DeBunkerman.

            I am sorry that Ted Miner is poking Sparkle Plenty rather than you, but that is no reason to try to make Ted Miner look like a moron on the internet.

          • Peaceful Warrior
          • TED

            Look Duncan DeBunkerman you are not fooling anyone we all know this is you. This picture has Duncan DeBunkerma’s upvote on it. I mean how dumb can you be.

            Ted Miner always said you were a dunce.

          • razorjack

            You are a thief.

            Ted Miner to you:

            “You are a fake and a
            liar “TED”. Everything you said about me is lies. I have never said
            Duncan or anyone else is a dunce or anything you would be aware of. I
            have never talked to you or the other industry goons anywhere but on
            these discus threads.

            Here are the facts:

            I have been on my facebook page for 9 years. https://www*facebook*com/ted*miner

            I have had this Disqus profile for over 4 and ½ years. https://disqus*com/by/tedminer/

            You have created at least 2 fake accounts using photos that you stole from my facebook page for profile pictures.

            This
            one https://disqus*com/by/Baboonsbutt/ And A Sad Little Man
            https://disqus*com/by/asadlittleman/ Both these accounts we set up
            less than 3 months ago.

            You have repeatedly lied and claimed I
            have said something I haven’t you are not the only one. Damo, GMORobert,
            and others have also made these false claims.

            I have the highest
            respect for the truth tellers like Duncan and the others who you have
            harassed with your false claims and lies.

            You have never spoken
            for me. You never will speak for me and neither with the other industry
            trolls who are playing your silly adolescent troll game. Every time you
            post you your lies you are defaming me and the others.

            You are a
            criminal thug thief troll who is obviously seriously deranged of insane
            or else is a compensated dis-info psych-op agent.

            You are low life criminal thief and a total creep who needs to get help for his serious mental health issues.”

          • TED

            Duncan DeBunkerman, we all know this is you. You were posting that picture with Duncan’s upvote on it yesterday. Having been busted with that one, you are now trying to hide it by just posting the text.

            But it won’t do Duncan. Look I am sorry that Ted Miner is poking Sparkle Plenty instead of you, but that is not an excuse to try and make Ted Miner look like a moron on the internet.

          • razorjack

            You are a thief….

            Ted Miner to you:

            “You are a fake and a
            liar “TED”. Everything you said about me is lies. I have never said
            Duncan or anyone else is a dunce or anything you would be aware of. I
            have never talked to you or the other industry goons anywhere but on
            these discus threads.

            Here are the facts:

            I have been on my facebook page for 9 years. https://www*facebook*com/ted*miner

            I have had this Disqus profile for over 4 and ½ years. https://disqus*com/by/tedminer/

            You have created at least 2 fake accounts using photos that you stole from my facebook page for profile pictures.

            This
            one https://disqus*com/by/Baboonsbutt/ And A Sad Little Man
            https://disqus*com/by/asadlittleman/ Both these accounts we set up
            less than 3 months ago.

            You have repeatedly lied and claimed I
            have said something I haven’t you are not the only one. Damo, GMORobert,
            and others have also made these false claims.

            I have the highest
            respect for the truth tellers like Duncan and the others who you have
            harassed with your false claims and lies.

            You have never spoken
            for me. You never will speak for me and neither with the other industry
            trolls who are playing your silly adolescent troll game. Every time you
            post you your lies you are defaming me and the others.

            You are a
            criminal thug thief troll who is obviously seriously deranged of insane
            or else is a compensated dis-info psych-op agent.

            You are low life criminal thief and a total creep who needs to get help for his serious mental health issues.”

          • TED

            Oh Duncan DeBunkerman, you have tried your razorjack account before. Ted Miner would never say he respects Duncan DeBunkerman. Ted Miner thinks Duncan DeBunkerman is a dunce.

            I am sorry that Ted Miner is not returning your advances, but that is no reason to stalk his facebook page.

          • razorjack

            You seem very confused, headcase. I have always been razorjack, Duncan has always been Duncan we are both truth tellers, and the truth is no something you are acquainted with.

            Here is what Ted Miner said to you on this very thread.

            Ted Miner to you:

            “You are a fake and a
            liar “TED”. Everything you said about me is lies. I have never said
            Duncan or anyone else is a dunce or anything you would be aware of. I
            have never talked to you or the other industry goons anywhere but on
            these discus threads.

            Here are the facts:

            I have been on my facebook page for 9 years. https://www*facebook*com/ted*miner

            I have had this Disqus profile for over 4 and ½ years. https://disqus*com/by/tedminer/

            You have created at least 2 fake accounts using photos that you stole from my facebook page for profile pictures.

            This
            one https://disqus*com/by/Baboonsbutt/ And A Sad Little Man
            https://disqus*com/by/asadlittleman/ Both these accounts we set up
            less than 3 months ago.

            You have repeatedly lied and claimed I
            have said something I haven’t you are not the only one. Damo, GMORobert,
            and others have also made these false claims.

            I have the highest
            respect for the truth tellers like Duncan and the others who you have
            harassed with your false claims and lies.

            You have never spoken
            for me. You never will speak for me and neither with the other industry
            trolls who are playing your silly adolescent troll game. Every time you
            post you your lies you are defaming me and the others.

            You are a
            criminal thug thief troll who is obviously seriously deranged of insane
            or else is a compensated dis-info psych-op agent.

            You are low life criminal thief and a total creep who needs to get help for his serious mental health issues.”

          • TED

            Duncan, you are lying again. We have already established that Duncan DeBunkerman is not a ‘truth teller’, but a lying liar.

            You pretending to be razorjack is not helping. It just gives us more laughs.

          • razorjack

            No. You are the liar.

            Ted Miner to you:

            “You are a fake and a
            liar “TED”. Everything you said about me is lies. I have never said
            Duncan or anyone else is a dunce or anything you would be aware of. I
            have never talked to you or the other industry goons anywhere but on
            these discus threads.

            Here are the facts:

            I have been on my facebook page for 9 years. https://www*facebook*com/ted*miner

            I have had this Disqus profile for over 4 and ½ years. https://disqus*com/by/tedminer/

            You have created at least 2 fake accounts using photos that you stole from my facebook page for profile pictures.

            This
            one https://disqus*com/by/Baboonsbutt/ And A Sad Little Man
            https://disqus*com/by/asadlittleman/ Both these accounts we set up
            less than 3 months ago.

            You have repeatedly lied and claimed I
            have said something I haven’t you are not the only one. Damo, GMORobert,
            and others have also made these false claims.

            I have the highest
            respect for the truth tellers like Duncan and the others who you have
            harassed with your false claims and lies.

            You have never spoken
            for me. You never will speak for me and neither with the other industry
            trolls who are playing your silly adolescent troll game. Every time you
            post you your lies you are defaming me and the others.

            You are a
            criminal thug thief troll who is obviously seriously deranged of insane
            or else is a compensated dis-info psych-op agent.

            You are low life criminal thief and a total creep who needs to get help for his serious mental health issues.”

          • TED

            Duncan DeBunkerman posting the same lies does not improve them. Everyone knows this is you posting as razorjack.

            Ted Miner thinks Duncan DeBunkerman is a dunce, he has told me so. Ted Miner would never say he respects Duncan DeBunkerman.

            I am sorry that Ted Miner prefers Sparkle Plenty to you, but that is no reason to try to make Ted Miner look like a moron on the internet.

          • TED

            Duncan DeBunkerman you have tried this before. I am not confused, you are just lying again. It has bee shown on this thread that you are not a ‘truth teller’, but a lying liar.

            This was not what Ted Miner would say. Ted Miner thinks you are a dunce. He would never say he respects you.

          • razorjack

            Nope. This is what Ted said.

            Ted Miner to you:

            “You are a fake and a
            liar “TED”. Everything you said about me is lies. I have never said
            Duncan or anyone else is a dunce or anything you would be aware of. I
            have never talked to you or the other industry goons anywhere but on
            these discus threads.

            Here are the facts:

            I have been on my facebook page for 9 years. https://www*facebook*com/ted*miner

            I have had this Disqus profile for over 4 and ½ years. https://disqus*com/by/tedminer/

            You have created at least 2 fake accounts using photos that you stole from my facebook page for profile pictures.

            This
            one https://disqus*com/by/Baboonsbutt/ And A Sad Little Man
            https://disqus*com/by/asadlittleman/ Both these accounts we set up
            less than 3 months ago.

            You have repeatedly lied and claimed I
            have said something I haven’t you are not the only one. Damo, GMORobert,
            and others have also made these false claims.

            I have the highest
            respect for the truth tellers like Duncan and the others who you have
            harassed with your false claims and lies.

            You have never spoken
            for me. You never will speak for me and neither with the other industry
            trolls who are playing your silly adolescent troll game. Every time you
            post you your lies you are defaming me and the others.

            You are a
            criminal thug thief troll who is obviously seriously deranged of insane
            or else is a compensated dis-info psych-op agent.

            You are low life criminal thief and a total creep who needs to get help for his serious mental health issues.”

          • TED

            Duncan DeBunkerman, this is not what Ted Miner would say.

            Everyone knows that Ted Miner thinks Duncan DeBunkerman is a dunce. I have even heard Ted Miner say so.

            Ted Miner has also said that he would like you to stop stalking his facebook page.

          • razorjack

            Here is what Ted Miner has to say.

            Ted Miner to you:

            “You are a fake and a
            liar “TED”. Everything you said about me is lies. I have never said
            Duncan or anyone else is a dunce or anything you would be aware of. I
            have never talked to you or the other industry goons anywhere but on
            these discus threads.

            Here are the facts:

            I have been on my facebook page for 9 years. https://www*facebook*com/ted*miner

            I have had this Disqus profile for over 4 and ½ years. https://disqus*com/by/tedminer/

            You have created at least 2 fake accounts using photos that you stole from my facebook page for profile pictures.

            This
            one https://disqus*com/by/Baboonsbutt/ And A Sad Little Man
            https://disqus*com/by/asadlittleman/ Both these accounts we set up
            less than 3 months ago.

            You have repeatedly lied and claimed I
            have said something I haven’t you are not the only one. Damo, GMORobert,
            and others have also made these false claims.

            I have the highest
            respect for the truth tellers like Duncan and the others who you have
            harassed with your false claims and lies.

            You have never spoken
            for me. You never will speak for me and neither with the other industry
            trolls who are playing your silly adolescent troll game. Every time you
            post you your lies you are defaming me and the others.

            You are a
            criminal thug thief troll who is obviously seriously deranged of insane
            or else is a compensated dis-info psych-op agent.

            You are low life criminal thief and a total creep who needs to get help for his serious mental health issues.”

          • TED

            Duncan DeBunkerman posting the same lies does not improve them. Everyone knows this is you posting as razorjack.

            Ted Miner thinks Duncan DeBunkerman is a dunce, he has told me so. Ted Miner would never say he respects Duncan DeBunkerman.

            Look, I am sorry that Ted Miner is not returning your advances, but that is no reason to try to make Ted Miner look like a moron on the internet.

          • TED

            Duncan DeBunkerman posting the same lies does not improve them. Everyone knows this is you posting as razorjack.

            Ted Miner thinks Duncan DeBunkerman is a dunce, he has told me so. Ted Miner would never say he respects Duncan DeBunkerman.

            I am sorry that Ted Miner is not returning your advances, but that is no reason to try to make Ted Miner look like a moron on the internet.

          • razorjack

            Ted Miner says his to you.

            Ted Miner to you:

            “You are a fake and a
            liar “TED”. Everything you said about me is lies. I have never said
            Duncan or anyone else is a dunce or anything you would be aware of. I
            have never talked to you or the other industry goons anywhere but on
            these discus threads.

            Here are the facts:

            I have been on my facebook page for 9 years. https://www*facebook*com/ted*miner

            I have had this Disqus profile for over 4 and ½ years. https://disqus*com/by/tedminer/

            You have created at least 2 fake accounts using photos that you stole from my facebook page for profile pictures.

            This
            one https://disqus*com/by/Baboonsbutt/ And A Sad Little Man
            https://disqus*com/by/asadlittleman/ Both these accounts we set up
            less than 3 months ago.

            You have repeatedly lied and claimed I
            have said something I haven’t you are not the only one. Damo, GMORobert,
            and others have also made these false claims.

            I have the highest
            respect for the truth tellers like Duncan and the others who you have
            harassed with your false claims and lies.

            You have never spoken
            for me. You never will speak for me and neither with the other industry
            trolls who are playing your silly adolescent troll game. Every time you
            post you your lies you are defaming me and the others.

            You are a
            criminal thug thief troll who is obviously seriously deranged of insane
            or else is a compensated dis-info psych-op agent.

            You are low life criminal thief and a total creep who needs to get help for his serious mental health issues.”

          • TED

            Duncan DeBunkerman posting the same lies does not improve them. Everyone knows this is you posting as razorjack.

            Ted Miner thinks Duncan DeBunkerman is a dunce, he has told me so. Ted Miner would never say he respects Duncan DeBunkerman.

            I am sorry that Ted Miner is not returning your advances, but that is no reason to try to make Ted Miner look like a moron on the internet.

          • razorjack

            You are a liar and thief.

            Ted Miner to you:

            “You are a fake and a
            liar “TED”. Everything you said about me is lies. I have never said
            Duncan or anyone else is a dunce or anything you would be aware of. I
            have never talked to you or the other industry goons anywhere but on
            these discus threads.

            Here are the facts:

            I have been on my facebook page for 9 years. https://www*facebook*com/ted*miner

            I have had this Disqus profile for over 4 and ½ years. https://disqus*com/by/tedminer/

            You have created at least 2 fake accounts using photos that you stole from my facebook page for profile pictures.

            This
            one https://disqus*com/by/Baboonsbutt/ And A Sad Little Man
            https://disqus*com/by/asadlittleman/ Both these accounts we set up
            less than 3 months ago.

            You have repeatedly lied and claimed I
            have said something I haven’t you are not the only one. Damo, GMORobert,
            and others have also made these false claims.

            I have the highest
            respect for the truth tellers like Duncan and the others who you have
            harassed with your false claims and lies.

            You have never spoken
            for me. You never will speak for me and neither with the other industry
            trolls who are playing your silly adolescent troll game. Every time you
            post you your lies you are defaming me and the others.

            You are a
            criminal thug thief troll who is obviously seriously deranged of insane
            or else is a compensated dis-info psych-op agent.

            You are low life criminal thief and a total creep who needs to get help for his serious mental health issues.”

          • TED

            Duncan DeBunkerman posting the same lies does not improve them. Everyone knows this is you posting as razorjack.

            Ted Miner thinks Duncan DeBunkerman is a dunce, he has told me so. Ted Miner would never say he respects Duncan DeBunkerman.

            Look, I am sorry that Ted Miner is poking Sparkle Plenty rather than you, but that is no reason to try to make Ted Miner look like a moron on the internet.

          • TED

            You really area a dunce Duncan DeBunkerman. Here you have used all your DISQUS sockpuppet accounts to upvote a post with nothing in it.

            No wonder Ted Miner says you are a dunce.

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/71a0690975c69b8326fe3924bdd0d5835b0f6c0832c7dec5c8ff69f56519544e.jpg

          • razorjack

            You are a thief.

            Ted Miner to you:

            “You are a fake and a
            liar “TED”. Everything you said about me is lies. I have never said
            Duncan or anyone else is a dunce or anything you would be aware of. I
            have never talked to you or the other industry goons anywhere but on
            these discus threads.

            Here are the facts:

            I have been on my facebook page for 9 years. https://www*facebook*com/ted*miner

            I have had this Disqus profile for over 4 and ½ years. https://disqus*com/by/tedminer/

            You have created at least 2 fake accounts using photos that you stole from my facebook page for profile pictures.

            This
            one https://disqus*com/by/Baboonsbutt/ And A Sad Little Man
            https://disqus*com/by/asadlittleman/ Both these accounts we set up
            less than 3 months ago.

            You have repeatedly lied and claimed I
            have said something I haven’t you are not the only one. Damo, GMORobert,
            and others have also made these false claims.

            I have the highest
            respect for the truth tellers like Duncan and the others who you have
            harassed with your false claims and lies.

            You have never spoken
            for me. You never will speak for me and neither with the other industry
            trolls who are playing your silly adolescent troll game. Every time you
            post you your lies you are defaming me and the others.

            You are a
            criminal thug thief troll who is obviously seriously deranged of insane
            or else is a compensated dis-info psych-op agent.

            You are low life criminal thief and a total creep who needs to get help for his serious mental health issues.”

          • TED

            Oh Duncan DeBunkerman, you have tried your razorjack account before. We all know this is you. Ted Miner would never say he respects Duncan DeBunkerman. Ted Miner thinks Duncan DeBunkerman is a dunce.

            I am sorry that Ted Miner is not returning your advances, but that is no reason to stalk his facebook page. Ted told me that he much prefers Sparkle Plenty to you.

          • razorjack

            You are a thief and a liar
            .
            Ted Miner to you:

            “You are a fake and a
            liar “TED”. Everything you said about me is lies. I have never said
            Duncan or anyone else is a dunce or anything you would be aware of. I
            have never talked to you or the other industry goons anywhere but on
            these discus threads.

            Here are the facts:

            I have been on my facebook page for 9 years. https://www*facebook*com/ted*miner

            I have had this Disqus profile for over 4 and ½ years. https://disqus*com/by/tedminer/

            You have created at least 2 fake accounts using photos that you stole from my facebook page for profile pictures.

            This
            one https://disqus*com/by/Baboonsbutt/ And A Sad Little Man
            https://disqus*com/by/asadlittleman/ Both these accounts we set up
            less than 3 months ago.

            You have repeatedly lied and claimed I
            have said something I haven’t you are not the only one. Damo, GMORobert,
            and others have also made these false claims.

            I have the highest
            respect for the truth tellers like Duncan and the others who you have
            harassed with your false claims and lies.

            You have never spoken
            for me. You never will speak for me and neither with the other industry
            trolls who are playing your silly adolescent troll game. Every time you
            post you your lies you are defaming me and the others.

            You are a
            criminal thug thief troll who is obviously seriously deranged of insane
            or else is a compensated dis-info psych-op agent.

            You are low life criminal thief and a total creep who needs to get help for his serious mental health issues.”

          • TED

            Duncan DeBunkerman posting the same lies does not improve them. Everyone knows this is you posting as razorjack.

            Ted Miner thinks Duncan DeBunkerman is a dunce, he has told me so. Ted Miner would never say he respects Duncan DeBunkerman.

            I am sorry that Ted Mineris poking Sparkle Plenty rather than you, but that is no reason to try to make Ted Miner look like a moron on the internet.

          • TED

            You really area a dunce Duncan DeBunkerman. Here you have used 7 of your DISQUS sockpuppet accounts to upvote a post with nothing in it.

            No wonder Ted Miner says you are a dunce.

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/d1903000660bd16fcd59869623d1e552da1ec54ac87b6fbb146274bdc7960ef3.jpg

          • TED

            You really area a dunce Duncan DeBunkerman. Here you have used 7 of
            your DISQUS sockpuppet accounts to upvote a post with nothing in it.

            No wonder Ted Miner says you are a dunce.

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/d1903000660bd16fcd59869623d1e552da1ec54ac87b6fbb146274bdc7960ef3.jpg

          • E. Sandwich

            Sick criminal thief is jealous of the upvotes that truth teller get. Pathetic waste of oxygen you are, headcase.

          • TED

            Are you back on the booze again Duncan DeBunkerman? We know all these accounts belong to you. Most, including you have all been posting a post from a fake Ted Miner account with an upvote from Duncan DeBunkerman clearly visible.

            No wonder Ted Miner thinks you are a dunce.

          • E. Sandwich

            Your life must be pathetic and cut off fro any kind of decent human interaction. Sucks to be you the criminal thief who spends his life harassing truth telling kind hearted people with vile filthy projection from his own pitiful useless cesspool of a life life.

          • TED

            Your life must be pathetic and cut off from any kind of decent human
            interaction. Sucks to be you, the criminal thief, who spends his life
            harassing truth telling kind hearted people with vile filthy projection
            from his own pitiful useless cesspool of a useless parasitic life.

            Been drinking again Duncan DeBunkerman? You are not making any sense.

            Ted Miner says you should give up the booze.

          • E. Sandwich

            Thanks for keep proving my point. You use way to much oxygen for the little your useless mentally ill life benefits to the planet or humanity. You are a bottom slime sewer slurry useless parasitic excuse for a human being.

          • TED

            Thanks for keep proving my point.

            You are too drunk to have a point. All you are proving is that you a drunkard.

            I don’t care for your threats. You are a small membered, impotent little man Duncan DeBunkerman. No wonder Ted Miner doesn’t like you.

          • E. Sandwich
          • TED

            That post from the fake Ted Miner account again with the upvote from Duncan DeBunkerman clearly visible. You must think everyone is a fool, Duncan DeBunkerman.

            I am sorry that you are upset by Ted Miner poking Sparkle Plenty instead of you, but that is no excuse for making Ted Miner look like a moron on the internet.

          • E. Sandwich

            Sorry, headcase, but there is nothing in your circus act that looks anything but fake. Your sleazy game is so cute as you reach for the lowest slimy sewer slop to throw at the truth that you are so afraid off. Now, its here for you headcase. You are a loser who is afraid of the truth.

          • TED

            Sorry, headcase, but there is nothing in your circus act that looks anything but fake. Your sleazy game is so cute as you reach for the lowest slimy sewer slop to throw at the truth that you are so afraid off. Now its here for you headcase. You are a loser who is afraid of the truth.

            You are babbling incoherently again, Duncan DeBunkerman. You really
            should give the booze away. Ted Miner says that drinking is one of your
            biggest problems, along with being a complete loser.

          • E. Sandwich

            Pitiful that that is the best you have, headcase. You are so weak with no brain power in your little tiny quiver of PR arrows.

          • TED

            I am not the one who is pitiful, Duncan DeBunkerman. I am not the one who is using a bunch of sockpuppet DISQUS accounts to pretend to be other people. I am not the one stalking Ted Miner’s facebook page, when Ted Miner thinks they are a Dunce. You should look to yourself Duncan DeBunkerman.

          • E. Sandwich

            Everyone knows you are insane and babbling your demented BS.

          • TED

            Anyone reading this thread would see that it is you Duncan DeBunkerman that is insane. Is this why you keep flagging all my posts until they are deleted? You don’t want people to realize how insane you are.

          • E. Sandwich

            I’m done with you, asshat. You are a whinny little troll that needs to hide behind the likeness of others who are much stronger than you. You are a pathetic miserable lonesome mess with no life except the pathetic troll interactions you offer here. You should be pitied.

          • TED

            I am not the one with a dozen DISQUS accounts all pretending to be different people, but failing miserably, Duncan DeBunkerman. That is you.

            I am not the one who uses all those sockpuppet accounts to obsessively upvote themselves (even when the post contains nothing), flagging posts and reporting profiles, Duncan DeBunkerman. That is you.

            You are the pathetic miserable lonesome mess that can’t even get it on with Ted Miner.

          • E. Sandwich

            LOL! You keep telling the same lies over and over again. Nobody believes you. Everyone knows you have serious mental health issues you refuse to face. You are a mess, asshat, that on top of the fact that you are a criminal thief and pathological liar who woudn’t be trusted to tell the difference between day and night.

          • E. Sandwich

            You are so pitiful with your unnatural obsession. You remind me of the impotent little Mikey McCarthy.

          • TED

            You are projecting again Duncan DeBunkerman. I am not the one obsessed by Ted Miner’s facebook page. That is you. I am not the one obsessively posting a picture from a fake Ted Miner DISQUS account trying to make Ted Miner look like a moron.

            Ted poking Sparkle Plenty instead of you has really wound you up.

          • E. Sandwich

            Look at yourself, asshat. You are projecting all your own stuff on truth tellers here. You are one seriously mentally ill mess.

          • TED

            Oh Duncan DeBunkerman, everyone knows you are not a ‘Truth Teller’, you are a lying liar. Here you are posting using a sockpuppet called Egg Sandwich. You need more imagination, Duncan DeBunkerman.

            Everyone can see your obsessive behavior about Ted Miner’s facebook page.

          • E. Sandwich

            You are a failure at promoting you alternative reality, asshat.

            Cancel your discus accounts. Try and get some help for your creepy obsessive mental health issues.

          • TED

            I thought you had done with me?

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/fa57c40e946235a1406228bf445a588604bb87b55fe2b1939a7a8d95d0a484eb.jpg

            You are the one obsessed by Ted Miner’s facebook page, not me.

          • E. Sandwich

            I was, but you are so easy, asshat. You’ve run your string, but you keep
            hanging in there hoping that what hasn’t worked for you will start
            working. You are an ignorant fool as well as a criminal thief and
            lowlife industry troll and you are getting you a^s handed to you here.

            :)))))

          • TED

            No. You are just a lying liar, Duncan DeBunkerman. You have shown this over and over again.

            I am just laughing at you. I am wondering what Ted Miner is going to say when he reads this thread. Gosh it is going to be funny.

            No wonder Ted Miner calls you a dunce, Duncan DeBunkerman.

          • E. Sandwich

            Is that all you have? What a waste of bandwidth and time you are with your useless outdated troll abusive tactics. You are a failure.Everyone knows you can’t stand on your own in the light of day. You are a coward With compensating serious mental instability.

          • TED

            Yes Duncan DeBunkerman, whatever you say.

            But I am not the one who keeps posting a picture of a post from a fake Ted Miner account with the upvote from Duncan DeBunkerman clearly visible. I am not the one who is stalking Ted Miner’s facebook account. I am not the one who is jealous of Ted Miner poking Sparkle Plenty and trying to make Ted Miner look like a moron on the internet.

          • E. Sandwich

            You are the one who is using a stolen picture from Ted Miner’s facebook account to hide behind here with your FAKE “TED” profile you are using o troll us with here.

          • TED

            This picture isn’t stolen. Sparkle Plenty gave it to me.

            I have just realized why you are so upset about it. It reminds you of your beloved Ted Miner, who you will never have, because he is poking Sparkle Plenty.

            Oh Duncan DeBunkerman, you are such a sad case.

          • E. Sandwich

            You are one creepy liars, asshat.

          • TED

            See Duncan DeBunkerman here you are proving yourself a lying liar again. This is what you wrote just 4 minutes ago:

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/fa57c40e946235a1406228bf445a588604bb87b55fe2b1939a7a8d95d0a484eb.jpg

            You just can’t help but lie, can you?

          • E. Sandwich

            You are spamming now, and you are not getting any traction on your lies. Give it up. Cancel your disqus accounts and learn to be a decent contributing human being instead of the parasite you are now, asshat.

          • TED

            I thought you had done with me, Duncan DeBunkerman?

            Lying liars have to lie. They can’t help themselves. No wonder Ted Miner thinks you are a dunce.

          • E. Sandwich

            It’s hard not to to watch you twist on the hook of your own mendacious duplicity, asshat.

          • TED

            No you are just a lying liar, Duncan DeBunkerman.

            No wonder Ted Miner called you a dunce.

          • E. Sandwich

            HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

          • TED

            You really are a moron Duncan DeBunkerman. Here you have used 8 of
            your DISQUS sockpuppet accounts to upvote a post with nothing in it.

            No wonder Ted Miner says you are a dunce.

            I am too busy laughing.

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/3f72f8ebab84611ea9c0f34d25f149deace7bbc60d0a2bc34e8387110381aa0a.jpg

          • TED

            You really are a moron Duncan DeBunkerman. Here you have used 8 of
            your DISQUS sockpuppet accounts to upvote a post with nothing in it.

            No wonder Ted Miner says you are a dunce.

            I am too busy laughing.

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/3f72f8ebab84611ea9c0f34d25f149deace7bbc60d0a2bc34e8387110381aa0a.jpg

          • TED

            You really are a moron Duncan DeBunkerman. Here you have used 8 of
            your DISQUS sockpuppet accounts to upvote a post with nothing in it.

            No wonder Ted Miner says you are a dunce.

            I am too busy laughing.

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/3f72f8ebab84611ea9c0f34d25f149deace7bbc60d0a2bc34e8387110381aa0a.jpg

          • razorjack

            HAHAHAHAHAHA !!!

            No. You are projecting your own cowardly insane criminal thug behavior on other people. You are a cowardly thief who need to hide behind the image of a true truth teller because you can’t expose your real identity here with out fear of being prosecuted and sued for your sleazy criminal acts.

            Here is what Ted Miner has to say about you.
            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/33042144cd62197ae8565e80836478e0b6027fd5c1fa88e23c16ff81d49332af.png

          • TED

            You are a cowardly thief who need to hide behind the image of a true
            truth teller because you can’t expose your real identity here with out
            fear of being prosecuted and sued for your sleazy criminal acts.

            Duncan DeBunkerman, you should give the booze away. You are starting to babble incoherently again. You are deluded about the law.

            I am sorry that telling you about Ted Miner poking Sparkle Plenty instead of you has tipped you over the edge, but really it is better for you to not live in false hope. Ted Miner thinks you are a dunce. Stalking his facebook page won’t help you.

          • E. Sandwich

            Not only are you a criminal thief, but you are proving to be a one man freak show as well, headcase.

            Your troll narrative is so phony that you can see it a mile away.

          • TED

            Who are you? Why do you care? What does the E stand for?

            Oh you are Egg Sandwich. I should have guessed.

            I am not a thief, I haven’t stolen anything.

          • SUNNY
          • TED

            Duncan DeBunkerman, yet another sockpuppet DISQUS account for you. We all know it is you, because that picture you pst has your upvote on it.

            Ted Miner always said you were a dunce. here you are going about proving it.

          • Peaceful Warrior
          • TED

            Duncan DeBunkerman, how many DISQUS accounts do you have? This is about the 5th one where you have posted the same picture with Duncan DeBunkerman’s upvote on it.

            Look you are not fooling anyone, least of all Ted Miner. Ted Miner always said you were a dunce and here you are proving it again.

          • razorjack

            Everyone has seen the screen shot of Ted Miner’s comment to you. You are a criminal thug and mentally ill troll who can not help himself.

            Ted says:

            “You are a fake and a
            liar “TED”. Everything you said about me is lies. I have never said
            Duncan or anyone else is a dunce or anything you would be aware of. I
            have never talked to you or the other industry goons anywhere but on
            these discus threads.

            Here are the facts:

            I have been on my facebook page for 9 years. https://www*facebook*com/ted*miner

            I have had this Disqus profile for over 4 and ½ years. https://disqus*com/by/tedminer/

            You have created at least 2 fake accounts using photos that you stole from my facebook page for profile pictures.

            This
            one https://disqus*com/by/Baboonsbutt/ And A Sad Little Man
            https://disqus*com/by/asadlittleman/ Both these accounts we set up
            less than 3 months ago.

            You have repeatedly lied and claimed I
            have said something I haven’t you are not the only one. Damo, GMORobert,
            and others have also made these false claims.

            I have the highest
            respect for the truth tellers like Duncan and the others who you have
            harassed with your false claims and lies.

            You have never spoken
            for me. You never will speak for me and neither with the other industry
            trolls who are playing your silly adolescent troll game. Every time you
            post you your lies you are defaming me and the others.

            You are a
            criminal thug thief troll who is obviously seriously deranged of insane
            or else is a compensated dis-info psych-op agent.

            You are low life criminal thief and a total creep who needs to get help for his serious mental health issues.”

          • TED

            Everyone has seen the screen shot of Ted Miner’s comment to you.

            Everyone has seen it and everyone knows it is fake. Ted Miner would never write that he respects Duncan DeBunkerman, because Ted Miner thinks Duncan is a dunce.

            This must have be written by you Duncan DeBunkerman. Posting it with all your sockpuppet accounts just makes you look sleazy,

          • razorjack

            Nope. Everyone knows that you are a fake and criminal thief and liar.

            Ted Miner to you:

            “You are a fake and a
            liar “TED”. Everything you said about me is lies. I have never said
            Duncan or anyone else is a dunce or anything you would be aware of. I
            have never talked to you or the other industry goons anywhere but on
            these discus threads.

            Here are the facts:

            I have been on my facebook page for 9 years. https://www*facebook*com/ted*miner

            I have had this Disqus profile for over 4 and ½ years. https://disqus*com/by/tedminer/

            You have created at least 2 fake accounts using photos that you stole from my facebook page for profile pictures.

            This
            one https://disqus*com/by/Baboonsbutt/ And A Sad Little Man
            https://disqus*com/by/asadlittleman/ Both these accounts we set up
            less than 3 months ago.

            You have repeatedly lied and claimed I
            have said something I haven’t you are not the only one. Damo, GMORobert,
            and others have also made these false claims.

            I have the highest
            respect for the truth tellers like Duncan and the others who you have
            harassed with your false claims and lies.

            You have never spoken
            for me. You never will speak for me and neither with the other industry
            trolls who are playing your silly adolescent troll game. Every time you
            post you your lies you are defaming me and the others.

            You are a
            criminal thug thief troll who is obviously seriously deranged of insane
            or else is a compensated dis-info psych-op agent.

            You are low life criminal thief and a total creep who needs to get help for his serious mental health issues.”

          • TED

            Duncan DeBunkerman posting the same lies does not improve them. Everyone knows this is you posting as razorjack.

            The give away is that Ted Miner thinks Duncan DeBunkerman is a dunce, he has told me so. Ted Miner would never say he respects Duncan DeBunkerman.

            I am sorry that Ted Miner is poking Sparkle Plenty rather than you, but that is no reason to try to make Ted Miner look like a moron on the internet.

          • Ted Miner

            Peek a boo, headcase.

          • Ted Miner

            You are a liar and a fake. Your lies are defamation. You need to get some psychiatric help and you need to get it soon.

          • TED

            Duncan DeBunkerman, you don’t expect us to fall for this one. You have set up a fake DISQUS account pretending to be Ted Miner.

            You should really stay off the booze you know.

          • Duncan DeBunkerman

            No. You are the sleazy low life thief and troll who is hiding behind Ted Miner’s stolen pictures. Ted Miner has been on disqus longer than I have and your credibility is non- existent only a mentally ill sociopath like you would keep the lies coming after you have been exposed for all the world to see.

            I’ve got wonderful screenshots. . and I know how to use them and share them. Stay tuned, lowlife coward.

          • TED

            Duncan DeBunkerman, we all know that fake Ted Miner DISQUS account is run by you.

            You are babbling incoherently again. I know you said you were going to have a hard day drinking today, but isn’t this a little early to be drunk? Are you a two-pot screamer or something?

          • Duncan DeBunkerman

            You are now becoming an incoherent coward and thief. You have been proven to be a liar thief and criminal defamer. What an example you set with your demonstration of sociopathic lying and inability to deal with reality. Your done, stick a fork in you. You have absolutely no credibility with anyone except your industry goon squad co-workers.

          • TED

            An incoherent coward? How about that?

            See this is the problem with you when you get on the booze Duncan DeBunkerman. You pretend to be Ted Miner, but we all know Ted Miner despises you. He says you are a drunk and a dunce. You are not dispelling this impression by your incoherent rambling.

            You would think it wouldn’t get so messy at 4 o’clock in the afternoon.

          • Duncan DeBunkerman

            HAHAHAHA!!

          • Duncan DeBunkerman

            Hahahahaha!!

          • TED

            Still on the booze, Duncan DeBunkerman? I am impressed by the length of this bender you are on.

            It is affecting the quality of your posts now, so perhaps going to bed now and sleeping it off would be good for you.

          • razorjack

            HAHAHAHAHA!!!

            All you have is targeted abuse and criminal defamation. You are a criminal thug and thief and this is what Ted Miner says about you. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/33042144cd62197ae8565e80836478e0b6027fd5c1fa88e23c16ff81d49332af.png

          • TED

            HAHAHAHAHA!!!

            Exactly what Duncan DeBunkerman would write.

            Duncan, if you want to pretend to be someone else, you need to try a bit harder. I was only talking to Ted Miner the other day and he mentioned what a dunce he thought you were. Well here you are confirming it.

          • Duncan DeBunkerman

            HAHAHAHA!

          • TED

            It is good that you have admitted setting up that fake Ted Miner DISQUS account. See how much better you feel when you stop lying about everything?

            Now you only need to give up the booze.

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/4cbd3af991a1308684096dd091a13a1ba2777e40bae93d1bbfc8ee646922bb53.jpg

          • razorjack

            Why do you keep posting lies? We can all see what kind of criminal thug thief you are.

            Here is what Ted Miner, the person who you stole your profile from, thinks https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/33042144cd62197ae8565e80836478e0b6027fd5c1fa88e23c16ff81d49332af.png

          • TED

            Duncan DeBunkerman, it is no point pretending to be razorjack now. You are posting the same post that has your upvote in it. I am beginning to believe Ted Miner about you being a dunce now. This is so transparent, a 3 year old could see through it.

          • razorjack

            We all see the FAKE phony “TED” who is hiding behind a stolen photo you took from Ted Miners facebook page. This is what Ted Miner has to say about you. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/33042144cd62197ae8565e80836478e0b6027fd5c1fa88e23c16ff81d49332af.png

          • TED

            We all know this is you Duncan DeBunkerman pretending to be razorjack. You have the same obsessive
            interest in Ted Miner’s facebook page. I think the fact that you are
            stalking Ted Miner on the internet is why he doesn’t like you.

          • razorjack

            No you are the insane cowardly criminal thief that needs to hide behind Ted Miner’s stole photos. You are the only one beside Ted Miner that has an obsessive interest in his facebook page. You prove it when you use his stole photos because you are to cowardly to show your real face on disqus.

            He is what Ted Miner has to say about you. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/33042144cd62197ae8565e80836478e0b6027fd5c1fa88e23c16ff81d49332af.png

          • Duncan DeBunkerman

            Here is what Ted Miner really said before you and the industry goon squad gang flagged his post down https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/33042144cd62197ae8565e80836478e0b6027fd5c1fa88e23c16ff81d49332af.png

          • TED

            Oh Duncan, we all know that DISQUS account is really you. I mean Ted Miner would never have the highest respect for you. He thinks you are a dunce. At least you have admitted one of your problems.

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/4cbd3af991a1308684096dd091a13a1ba2777e40bae93d1bbfc8ee646922bb53.jpg

          • razorjack

            No. Here is what Ted miner thinks

            We can all see that you are a criminal thug thief who has absolutely no morals or credibility here.
            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/33042144cd62197ae8565e80836478e0b6027fd5c1fa88e23c16ff81d49332af.png

          • TED

            Oh Duncan, I see you are now pretending to be razorjack. That is the exact same post with the exact same upvovte from Duncan Debunkerman.

            Ted Miner would never say that he has the highest respect for Duncan DeBunkerman, because he thinks Duncan is a dunce. If you hadn’t put that bit in there, I might have believed you.

          • razorjack

            Duncan is a truth teller. You are a criminal thug thief who is hiding behind a stolen photo you took from Ted Miner’s facecbook page to make up your FAKE “TED” profile https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/33042144cd62197ae8565e80836478e0b6027fd5c1fa88e23c16ff81d49332af.png

            This is what ed Miner has to say.

          • TED

            Duncan DeBunkerman is not a ‘truth teller’. We established he is a lying liar. Not only that he is a drunk.

            Now Duncan is pretending to be razorjack and posting a picture of a fake post Duncan made. I mean, it still has Duncan’s upvote there for all to see.

            Duncan, this is just confirming Ted Miner was right about you. You are a dunce.

          • razorjack

            Duncan is a truth teller. You are a liar and a criminal thug thief who is using a photo you stole from Ted Miner’s facebook page for the profile picture on you FAKE “TED” profile.

            You are a sniveling coward who needs to hide being the picture of a truth teller because you are no capable of exposing your real identity because of all the criminal acts you are guilty of doing.

            Here is what Ted Miner thinks about you. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/33042144cd62197ae8565e80836478e0b6027fd5c1fa88e23c16ff81d49332af.png

          • TED

            Oh Duncan, don’t give us that stuff about Duncan DeBunkerman being a ‘truth teller’.

            On this very thread we had Duncan stating:

            I want you posts left up so that everyone can see what kind of criminal sleazeball thief you are.

            And

            Flagging sleazy impersonators, like you, is a community service.

            Even you have to agree that both those claims cannot be correct. As I said at the time: Who to believe? Duncan DeBunkerman the lying liar or Duncan DeBunkerman the lying liar?

            No wonder Ted Miner says you are a dunce.

          • razorjack

            You desperate frantic mental masturbation is so funny to watch. You have been exposed as a cowardly mentally ill criminal thug thief who needs to hide behind Ted Miner’s stolen facebook photo here on your FAKE “TED” profile. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/33042144cd62197ae8565e80836478e0b6027fd5c1fa88e23c16ff81d49332af.png .

            I’ll bet you try and hide behind your mommy’s skirts too.

            He is what Ted Miner has to say about you.

          • TED

            You desperate frantic mental masturbation is so funny to watch.

            This is the exact same stupid phrase that dunce Duncan DeBunkerman writes when he has been on the booze. He wrote this yesterday. You can stop pretending you are razorjack now. Everyone can see this is really that dunce Duncan DeBunkerman. No wonder Ted Miner avoids him.

          • razorjack

            You desperate frantic mental gymnastic frenzied little circle jerk is so funny to watch. You have been exposed as a cowardly mentally ill criminal thug thief who
            needs to hide behind Ted Miner’s stolen facebook photo here on your FAKE
            “TED” profile.

            I’ll bet you try and hide behind your mommy’s skirts too.He is what Ted Miner has to say about you.

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/33042144cd62197ae8565e80836478e0b6027fd5c1fa88e23c16ff81d49332af.png

          • razorjack
          • TED

            I am a troll.

            But then so are you.

          • razorjack

            Nonsense.

            I am a truth teller who exposes insane criminal thug thieves and trolls like you. The more you post your lies and troll drool the more exposed you are. You and your coven of industry goon squad thugs can keep gang flagging posts and buying upvotes from sex bots and troll bots, but every time you do you expose more of the desperate fear that your industry has of being exposed for the genocidal criminals they are. No wonder they need to stoop so low with low life criminal thugs like you.

          • TED

            No you are a troll Duncan DeBunkerman. You can’t be a ‘truth teller’ because you keep your comment history hidden. That is what trolls do. You are a troll that stalks Ted Miner’s facebook page.

            You and your coven of industry goon squad thugs can keep gang flagging
            posts and buying upvotes from sex bots and troll bots, but every time
            you do you expose more of the desperate fear that your industry has of
            being exposed for the genocidal criminals they are.

            This shows you have also been drinking too much.

          • Ted Miner

            Thanks for the heads up, Duncan. I appreciate the truth you tell and the levels of abusive harassment you have been subject to because you stick to the truth. Industry goons like the fake “TED” are a sign the truth tellers are winning. When the industry needs to go beyond the bounds of common decency to harass anyone who presents facts they can’t challenge.

            You and the other truth tellers are my heros.

          • Duncan DeBunkerman

            Thanks for setting the record straight. We are dealing with serious mental illness with this deranged industry troll. The truth doesn’t mean anything for them. So they will likely keep the abusive losers crap going.

            Be well my friend!

          • Ted Miner

            You are a fake and a liar “TED”. Everything you said about me is lies. I have never said Duncan or anyone else is a dunce or anything you would be aware of. I have never talked to you or the other industry goons anywhere but on these discus threads.

            Here are the facts:

            I have been on my facebook page for 9 years. https://www*facebook*com/ted*miner

            I have had this Disqus profile for over 4 and ½ years. https://disqus*com/by/tedminer/

            You have created at least 2 fake accounts using photos that you stole from my facebook page for profile pictures.

            This one https://disqus*com/by/Baboonsbutt/ And A Sad Little Man https://disqus*com/by/asadlittleman/ Both these accounts we set up less than 3 months ago.

            You have repeatedly lied and claimed I have said something I haven’t you are not the only one. Damo, GMORobert, and others have also made these false claims.

            I have the highest respect for the truth tellers like Duncan and the others who you have harassed with your false claims and lies.

            You have never spoken for me. You never will speak for me and neither with the other industry trolls who are playing your silly adolescent troll game. Every time you post you your lies you are defaming me and the others.

            You are a criminal thug thief troll who is obviously seriously deranged of insane or else is a compensated dis-info psych-op agent.

            You are low life criminal thief and a total creep who needs to get help for his serious mental health issues.

          • Ted Miner
          • TED

            I am a troll.

            You must be too.

          • Duncan DeBunkerman

            That is the kind of logic one can expect from a creepy low life lying troll who is trolling.

          • TED

            You are not making any sense again.

            You should really give up the booze.

          • Duncan DeBunkerman

            I don’t care about your little heart to heart talks with your mirror. We all know you are a low life coward and thief. Well all watch while your industry goon squad coven starts to gang flag posts again.

          • TED

            Everyone, I think you should give Duncan DeBunkerman a little leeway here. It is the booze talking. He might be more coherent in the morning once he has slept it off.

            Then again, perhaps not.

          • Duncan DeBunkerman

            So you say. I’ve got better thing to do than communicate with an agenda driven industry goon squad liar and thief like you. I’ll leave you and let you sign your lies to the moon. I doubt anyone else is paying attention to your criminal act anyway.

          • TED

            You said you were going to stop responding to me yesterday, and the day before that. The problem is Duncan DeBunkerman, you have shown yourself to be a lying liar so many times, that no-one believes you any more.

          • Duncan DeBunkerman

            HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

          • TED

            Case in point.

            Lying liar Duncan DeBunkerman declares for the third time that he will stop responding, only to respond to every post made.

            I think this is the booze talking.

  • Maia

    The repetitive bashing and name-calling on this thread has escalated to such a degree, that there is no longer a “discussion” happening at all. If any MODERATOR is reading all this, seems time to close the thread down, doesn’t it?

    • OWilson

      It’s a clue why over half the world goes to bed hungry every night!

      • Maia

        Some ambiguity in your comment, at least for me. I’d be interested in hearing more. Maybe I didn’t get the punchline…which happens now and again.

        • OWilson

          Nothing profound :)

          We spend more of our world resources “bashing”, “name calling”, not to mention killing each other on an industrial scale, than we do feeding each other!

          • Maia

            You are absolutely right, and it’s a shame. I volunteer with a community food program (of many years) and do some hard-to-come by fund-raising to support feeding people, while cringing at all the bombs and guns and such.
            I think it IS profound to see from this perspective. Thanks.

          • OWilson

            Thank you for walking the walk.

            Critics are a dime a dozen! :)

  • Peter Olins

    The authors of this paper admit,
    “…a conversion to 100% organic production without complementary measures would lead to huge land demand increases.”

    Their solution: a 50% reduction in “food wastage” (how?!) and a large shift away from consumption of animal protein (good luck with that!).

    As a mathematical exercise this paper is somewhat interesting, but it’s main value is probably the illustration of how hard it will be to feed the world, especially in the face of an increasingly hostile climate and finite resources.

  • Jessi Lune

    OMG I didn’t even make it past the first sentence. Why on Earth (literally) do we think it is ok to have 9 billion people running around in the first place? (And I am aware of all the moral and practical answers/implications to that, but my population biology class tells me we are asking for trouble, and humans EXCEL at trouble.) That is all.

    • OWilson

      So, what’s YOUR own particular “FInal Solution”? :)

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