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	<title>Comments on: Dolphin Saves Beached Whales Using&#8230; Language of the Sea?</title>
	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2008/03/12/dolphin-saves-beached-whales-using-language-of-the-sea/</link>
	<description>Quirky, funny, and surprising science news from the edge of the known universe.</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jul 2008 17:51:25 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Romeo M. Marquez</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2008/03/12/dolphin-saves-beached-whales-using-language-of-the-sea/#comment-10710</link>
		<dc:creator>Romeo M. Marquez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jul 2008 11:09:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2008/03/12/dolphin-saves-beached-whales-using-language-of-the-sea/#comment-10710</guid>
		<description>whales like elephants generaly understand the needs of the total collective meaning all sentient lifeforms on the planet. they are not indifferent to the concept of self sacrifice for the good of all. they are aware of the subtle corrolation between how certain gaseous particles affect the ecosystem and how marine life is connected to the production of compound substances which determine the weather and ecosystem such as dimethylsulfoniopropionate along with various other micro-organisms that preserve life on the planet. dolphins on the other hand communicate more in a playful compassionate sometimes mercilessly cruel maternal structure in consciousness. meaning they are of a more practical intelligence by nature and instinct -call it the selective process. life on land essentially has to be in balance with life in the sea. sentient beings do not share or have the degenerative compulsion of individualization by the human ego. most evolved beings on the planet recognize the basic eternal law that govern existence which reflect the the essence of immortality beyond tertiary boundaries. people do not feel as they can -we think in terms of living more in rhetoric than intuitively. the silent majority functions with love while people talk of it. one realized being is enough to save this world.
but when one does -the ego of the masses can not tolerate what is apparent  and subconsciously determines to undermine the growth or potential in others. personal responsibility and accountability is at a premium as they say and labels and harsh judgement prove this fact when genuine concern or consideration is construed as misanthropic or otherwise. it's funny and absurd really..... because ultimately nature always finds a way.. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>whales like elephants generaly understand the needs of the total collective meaning all sentient lifeforms on the planet. they are not indifferent to the concept of self sacrifice for the good of all. they are aware of the subtle corrolation between how certain gaseous particles affect the ecosystem and how marine life is connected to the production of compound substances which determine the weather and ecosystem such as dimethylsulfoniopropionate along with various other micro-organisms that preserve life on the planet. dolphins on the other hand communicate more in a playful compassionate sometimes mercilessly cruel maternal structure in consciousness. meaning they are of a more practical intelligence by nature and instinct -call it the selective process. life on land essentially has to be in balance with life in the sea. sentient beings do not share or have the degenerative compulsion of individualization by the human ego. most evolved beings on the planet recognize the basic eternal law that govern existence which reflect the the essence of immortality beyond tertiary boundaries. people do not feel as they can -we think in terms of living more in rhetoric than intuitively. the silent majority functions with love while people talk of it. one realized being is enough to save this world.<br />
but when one does -the ego of the masses can not tolerate what is apparent  and subconsciously determines to undermine the growth or potential in others. personal responsibility and accountability is at a premium as they say and labels and harsh judgement prove this fact when genuine concern or consideration is construed as misanthropic or otherwise. it&#8217;s funny and absurd really&#8230;.. because ultimately nature always finds a way.. <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Chad Higgins</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2008/03/12/dolphin-saves-beached-whales-using-language-of-the-sea/#comment-10500</link>
		<dc:creator>Chad Higgins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jul 2008 16:23:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2008/03/12/dolphin-saves-beached-whales-using-language-of-the-sea/#comment-10500</guid>
		<description>I was wondering what the exact day was Moko did this in November.  Bill Koenig in the book Eye to Eye talks about freaking correlations with natural events and Israel.  He predicted Katrina as something that would happen after the Gaza pull out.  So what I am saying is in the Bible it says that "all men will be perplexed by the sound of the ocean." Luke 21:25.  The word sounds like our word for echo and is used in another place in the bible about the reverberation noise of a gong. This seems to fit exactly.  There also may be some strange sign of Jonah thing here Jesus speaks of in Matthew 12:39.  Maybe dolphins were trained by an advanced civilization that has been lost.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was wondering what the exact day was Moko did this in November.  Bill Koenig in the book Eye to Eye talks about freaking correlations with natural events and Israel.  He predicted Katrina as something that would happen after the Gaza pull out.  So what I am saying is in the Bible it says that &#8220;all men will be perplexed by the sound of the ocean.&#8221; Luke 21:25.  The word sounds like our word for echo and is used in another place in the bible about the reverberation noise of a gong. This seems to fit exactly.  There also may be some strange sign of Jonah thing here Jesus speaks of in Matthew 12:39.  Maybe dolphins were trained by an advanced civilization that has been lost.</p>
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		<title>By: Betsy Lawlor</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2008/03/12/dolphin-saves-beached-whales-using-language-of-the-sea/#comment-3858</link>
		<dc:creator>Betsy Lawlor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Apr 2008 23:57:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2008/03/12/dolphin-saves-beached-whales-using-language-of-the-sea/#comment-3858</guid>
		<description>Hi, Amos,

Your point about alarm calls having 'worry-inducing' qualities is well taken.  It reminds me of how a baby's cry produces stress in everyone around, even including the family dog!

I also agree with the rest of what you said.  One other point that came up in conversation about this  is that apparently dolphins and pygmy sperm whales have been observed -- what to call it?  -- hanging out together?  I don't have a reference for this nor time to look one up, but perhaps someone else in this exchange could look for it?  If these species in particular travel together, then this communication becomes even less surprising (though still amazing).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, Amos,</p>
<p>Your point about alarm calls having &#8216;worry-inducing&#8217; qualities is well taken.  It reminds me of how a baby&#8217;s cry produces stress in everyone around, even including the family dog!</p>
<p>I also agree with the rest of what you said.  One other point that came up in conversation about this  is that apparently dolphins and pygmy sperm whales have been observed &#8212; what to call it?  &#8212; hanging out together?  I don&#8217;t have a reference for this nor time to look one up, but perhaps someone else in this exchange could look for it?  If these species in particular travel together, then this communication becomes even less surprising (though still amazing).</p>
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		<title>By: Amos Kenigsberg</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2008/03/12/dolphin-saves-beached-whales-using-language-of-the-sea/#comment-3857</link>
		<dc:creator>Amos Kenigsberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 00:22:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2008/03/12/dolphin-saves-beached-whales-using-language-of-the-sea/#comment-3857</guid>
		<description>Hi, Betsy. Thanks for the useful info.

Seems to me there's a significant difference between simply recognizing an alarm call and the communication that conservation officer Malcolm Smith says he saw. Alarm calls uttered by worried animals may generally have qualities (harsh, piercing, high-pitched, repeated) that tend to worry other individuals, and it would be easy to imagine this carrying across species.

But as Lizzie and you point out, whales and dolphins are both intelligent and social animals. The communication story doesn't sound as strange when you think that dolphins lead other dolphins around all the time—perhaps even leading each other out of danger—and they may have standard instinctive and/or learned acts of communication that facilitate this social behavior.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, Betsy. Thanks for the useful info.</p>
<p>Seems to me there&#8217;s a significant difference between simply recognizing an alarm call and the communication that conservation officer Malcolm Smith says he saw. Alarm calls uttered by worried animals may generally have qualities (harsh, piercing, high-pitched, repeated) that tend to worry other individuals, and it would be easy to imagine this carrying across species.</p>
<p>But as Lizzie and you point out, whales and dolphins are both intelligent and social animals. The communication story doesn&#8217;t sound as strange when you think that dolphins lead other dolphins around all the time—perhaps even leading each other out of danger—and they may have standard instinctive and/or learned acts of communication that facilitate this social behavior.</p>
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		<title>By: Betsy Lawlor</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2008/03/12/dolphin-saves-beached-whales-using-language-of-the-sea/#comment-3856</link>
		<dc:creator>Betsy Lawlor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 23:27:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2008/03/12/dolphin-saves-beached-whales-using-language-of-the-sea/#comment-3856</guid>
		<description>In response to Amos Kenigsberg and the general thread:

One of my (anthropology) students told me about this case today, and it got me thinking about what we know from other animal communication research.

Today's class included that vervet monkeys have alarm calls they recognize among themselves.   Vervet monkeys have lots of sounds that appear to have meaning but fall short of the language standards listed above from the DCP.  But when scientists play a recording of certain calls over a loudspeaker, the monkeys respond "appropriately" -- e.g., if the original call was made when there was a leopard nearby, then the monkeys act as if there's a leopard upon hearing the recorded call.

Here's a link with videos and sound clips of this behavior!  http://www.wjh.harvard.edu/~mnkylab/media/vervetcalls.html

Now a very cool part is that these monkeys also recognize and respond appropriately to the alarm calls of other species, including "other primates, ungulates [cloven-hoofed mammals] and birds. " http://www.theprimata.com/cercopithecus_aethiops.html, citing Estes 1991.

Amos Kenigsberg wondered about cetacean taxonomy; pygmy sperm whales understanding dolphins would be roughly like vervet monkeys understanding other primates.  This was observed in the wild prior to 1991.  However, Mr. Kenigsberg thought it would be akin to *strangers* communicating, and for all we know, the mother pygmy sperm whale could have known Moko the dolphin for years.

It would be surprising if intelligent social mammals were *not* aware of the basic communication of other species in their habitat.  There's a clear selective advantage for this type of awareness.  Of course, "basic communication" isn't necessarily "language", as discussed very well in Ibuchen's blog.

Still, there are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in our philosophy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In response to Amos Kenigsberg and the general thread:</p>
<p>One of my (anthropology) students told me about this case today, and it got me thinking about what we know from other animal communication research.</p>
<p>Today&#8217;s class included that vervet monkeys have alarm calls they recognize among themselves.   Vervet monkeys have lots of sounds that appear to have meaning but fall short of the language standards listed above from the DCP.  But when scientists play a recording of certain calls over a loudspeaker, the monkeys respond &#8220;appropriately&#8221; &#8212; e.g., if the original call was made when there was a leopard nearby, then the monkeys act as if there&#8217;s a leopard upon hearing the recorded call.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s a link with videos and sound clips of this behavior!  <a href="http://www.wjh.harvard.edu/~mnkylab/media/vervetcalls.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.wjh.harvard.edu/~mnkylab/media/vervetcalls.html</a></p>
<p>Now a very cool part is that these monkeys also recognize and respond appropriately to the alarm calls of other species, including &#8220;other primates, ungulates [cloven-hoofed mammals] and birds. &#8221; <a href="http://www.theprimata.com/cercopithecus_aethiops.html," rel="nofollow">http://www.theprimata.com/cercopithecus_aethiops.html,</a> citing Estes 1991.</p>
<p>Amos Kenigsberg wondered about cetacean taxonomy; pygmy sperm whales understanding dolphins would be roughly like vervet monkeys understanding other primates.  This was observed in the wild prior to 1991.  However, Mr. Kenigsberg thought it would be akin to *strangers* communicating, and for all we know, the mother pygmy sperm whale could have known Moko the dolphin for years.</p>
<p>It would be surprising if intelligent social mammals were *not* aware of the basic communication of other species in their habitat.  There&#8217;s a clear selective advantage for this type of awareness.  Of course, &#8220;basic communication&#8221; isn&#8217;t necessarily &#8220;language&#8221;, as discussed very well in Ibuchen&#8217;s blog.</p>
<p>Still, there are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in our philosophy.</p>
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		<title>By: Jessie</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2008/03/12/dolphin-saves-beached-whales-using-language-of-the-sea/#comment-3855</link>
		<dc:creator>Jessie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 13:51:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2008/03/12/dolphin-saves-beached-whales-using-language-of-the-sea/#comment-3855</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Jessie&lt;/strong&gt;

Very good blog thanks</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Jessie</strong></p>
<p>Very good blog thanks</p>
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		<title>By: Global Spin &#187; Dolphin Rescues Whales</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2008/03/12/dolphin-saves-beached-whales-using-language-of-the-sea/#comment-3852</link>
		<dc:creator>Global Spin &#187; Dolphin Rescues Whales</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Mar 2008 01:41:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2008/03/12/dolphin-saves-beached-whales-using-language-of-the-sea/#comment-3852</guid>
		<description>[...] Heard about this from my mom. Sort of a follow-up to Deb&#8217;s last post [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Heard about this from my mom. Sort of a follow-up to Deb&#8217;s last post [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Amos Kenigsberg</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2008/03/12/dolphin-saves-beached-whales-using-language-of-the-sea/#comment-3851</link>
		<dc:creator>Amos Kenigsberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 18:47:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2008/03/12/dolphin-saves-beached-whales-using-language-of-the-sea/#comment-3851</guid>
		<description>Jennifer: Fair enough. Maybe I'll have to do some first-hand research on cetaceans' cross-species communication, hopefully based on some tropical island...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jennifer: Fair enough. Maybe I&#8217;ll have to do some first-hand research on cetaceans&#8217; cross-species communication, hopefully based on some tropical island&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2008/03/12/dolphin-saves-beached-whales-using-language-of-the-sea/#comment-3850</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Mar 2008 21:37:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2008/03/12/dolphin-saves-beached-whales-using-language-of-the-sea/#comment-3850</guid>
		<description>Hi, Amos.  First off, let me say how nice it is to hear from someone that can see the “capacity for intelligence and compassion” in dolphons.  And you have a valid veiw.  I agree that communication between dolphins and whales may not be like you and I speaking, but I feel it may be something a kin to an English speaking person going to China.  They wouldn't have a conversation, but somehow the meaning of 'danger' or 'help' or 'follow me' might be understood.  But even if you change it to an animals and a person it can happen...I rescue dogs and cats and work for a wild animal rehabilitation center and see this often.  Jane Goodall is a great example of this.  She has shown that when you live w/ a different species as long as she has you learn from each other on how to communicate.  So back to my point from the article...dolphins are constantly bombarded w/ whales communicating and visa versa, so who are we to say that didn’t pick some of it up or just simply understand a ‘helping hand’ when it is given.  I admit I don't know, I'm just not so quick to rule it out.

And as for Jon:
The fact that you see humans as the pinnacle of Earthly intelligence because of what you see outside your Manhattan window says enough for me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, Amos.  First off, let me say how nice it is to hear from someone that can see the “capacity for intelligence and compassion” in dolphons.  And you have a valid veiw.  I agree that communication between dolphins and whales may not be like you and I speaking, but I feel it may be something a kin to an English speaking person going to China.  They wouldn&#8217;t have a conversation, but somehow the meaning of &#8216;danger&#8217; or &#8216;help&#8217; or &#8216;follow me&#8217; might be understood.  But even if you change it to an animals and a person it can happen&#8230;I rescue dogs and cats and work for a wild animal rehabilitation center and see this often.  Jane Goodall is a great example of this.  She has shown that when you live w/ a different species as long as she has you learn from each other on how to communicate.  So back to my point from the article&#8230;dolphins are constantly bombarded w/ whales communicating and visa versa, so who are we to say that didn’t pick some of it up or just simply understand a ‘helping hand’ when it is given.  I admit I don&#8217;t know, I&#8217;m just not so quick to rule it out.</p>
<p>And as for Jon:<br />
The fact that you see humans as the pinnacle of Earthly intelligence because of what you see outside your Manhattan window says enough for me.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2008/03/12/dolphin-saves-beached-whales-using-language-of-the-sea/#comment-3849</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Mar 2008 23:36:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2008/03/12/dolphin-saves-beached-whales-using-language-of-the-sea/#comment-3849</guid>
		<description>Face value? sorry Jennifer, but we are the pinnacle of intelligence on Earth. That's why we control it. I'm in Manhattan, and I look out the window and all I see are the consequences of human beings (and the physical laws which we exploit)--cars, buildings, lights, some potted plants, clocks. No dolphins out there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Face value? sorry Jennifer, but we are the pinnacle of intelligence on Earth. That&#8217;s why we control it. I&#8217;m in Manhattan, and I look out the window and all I see are the consequences of human beings (and the physical laws which we exploit)&#8211;cars, buildings, lights, some potted plants, clocks. No dolphins out there.</p>
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