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	<title>Comments on: University Sued for Saying Earth Not Created in 6 Days</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2008/05/15/university-sued-for-saying-earth-not-created-in-6-days/</link>
	<description>Quirky, funny, and surprising science news from the edge of the known universe.</description>
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		<title>By: Dharma</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2008/05/15/university-sued-for-saying-earth-not-created-in-6-days/comment-page-1/#comment-27488</link>
		<dc:creator>Dharma</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 06:44:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2008/05/15/university-sued-for-saying-earth-not-created-in-6-days/#comment-27488</guid>
		<description>i rarely comment on these because i find them depressing.  congratulations-the animosity on this site has broken me to respond.  what the majority of the public seem to fail to recognize is that religion-whatever sect, persuasion, or structure one adheres to is a belief system and only that-a belief.  no one can disprove the existence of some precursory event to the creation of the universe and i dare you to try. academics acknowledge the &quot;creationist&quot; thought of the prime mover argument which simply states that whatever occurred after the big bang was left to the universe to sort out, but the fact that something IS here and that there IS a system of laws to which the universe adheres to is an astonishing find and leads to the thought that if all causes are the result of previous causes, but not all causes necessarily require a preceding one (that is an originating causality) then there is an inherent initial causality to all moving systems.  now taking the isolated case of the universe and going all the way backward to time stamp 0:00:00:00 one finds an immensely dense, highly volatile state of matter.  an instant later it erupts in what we call the big bang--now what the **** caused it?  science-logic can empirically disprove claims in whatever belief structure they desire. but in the end there is a grain of truth to many of them. in the end the big bang theory is a form of creationism! not being one of any particular faith and having a deep-abiding respect for many great minds of science, being theist and atheist alike (Newton, Darwin, Galileo, Einstein, Schrodinger, Copernicus) i find it deplorable when persons of faith are attacked for their beliefs by those who believe they are doing the world good by defaming them using what they believe to be logical arguments citing others for their argumentative positions and tearing apart faiths that may not even belong to them! christians do not possess the sole doctrine on faith--saying those of religion are ignorant is both deeply offensive and the sign of a poor intellect.  as for theists who attack well established theories in science--don&#039;t, it&#039;ll work itself out eventually.  do you have any idea who attacks scientific theory more than theists? scientists.  they are a deeply skeptical bunch and admit no new ideas without the stringent testing and years of defamation--most don&#039;t live to see their work ever published.  so the fact that you call into question these ideas is both painful and unnecessary.  through its own evolution the theories and hypotheses will be routed out or confirmed, so please quit attempting to deny what is progressing at a prodigious rate.  now that we have settled these two aggressive tactics, i think a reconciliation is in order.  here is possibly the best i&#039;ve ever heard of it...are you ready? science explains HOW...but it is left to religion to explain WHY. science explains how things work, how all the universe came to be in all its myriad splendor (no it was not made in seven days so quit harping about it), it is left to religion to explain why though.  religion is there to give it meaning. science has no moral code by which to guide it, it is the people who utilize science that must direct its purpose--the same technology that powers most of modern france annihilated the cities of nagasaki and hiroshima in an instant.  i&#039;m not saying that those of science are immoral, just that they cannot explain to me why there is something here instead of nothing, why we exist at all and why we must act as human beings and why we think the way we do and why we must be moral people.  that is left to the human element of the equation and i hope that is kept in mind.  the two faiths-in religion-and in science are not mutually exclusive or inclusive, but rather may run parallel if we allow them to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i rarely comment on these because i find them depressing.  congratulations-the animosity on this site has broken me to respond.  what the majority of the public seem to fail to recognize is that religion-whatever sect, persuasion, or structure one adheres to is a belief system and only that-a belief.  no one can disprove the existence of some precursory event to the creation of the universe and i dare you to try. academics acknowledge the &#8220;creationist&#8221; thought of the prime mover argument which simply states that whatever occurred after the big bang was left to the universe to sort out, but the fact that something IS here and that there IS a system of laws to which the universe adheres to is an astonishing find and leads to the thought that if all causes are the result of previous causes, but not all causes necessarily require a preceding one (that is an originating causality) then there is an inherent initial causality to all moving systems.  now taking the isolated case of the universe and going all the way backward to time stamp 0:00:00:00 one finds an immensely dense, highly volatile state of matter.  an instant later it erupts in what we call the big bang&#8211;now what the **** caused it?  science-logic can empirically disprove claims in whatever belief structure they desire. but in the end there is a grain of truth to many of them. in the end the big bang theory is a form of creationism! not being one of any particular faith and having a deep-abiding respect for many great minds of science, being theist and atheist alike (Newton, Darwin, Galileo, Einstein, Schrodinger, Copernicus) i find it deplorable when persons of faith are attacked for their beliefs by those who believe they are doing the world good by defaming them using what they believe to be logical arguments citing others for their argumentative positions and tearing apart faiths that may not even belong to them! christians do not possess the sole doctrine on faith&#8211;saying those of religion are ignorant is both deeply offensive and the sign of a poor intellect.  as for theists who attack well established theories in science&#8211;don&#8217;t, it&#8217;ll work itself out eventually.  do you have any idea who attacks scientific theory more than theists? scientists.  they are a deeply skeptical bunch and admit no new ideas without the stringent testing and years of defamation&#8211;most don&#8217;t live to see their work ever published.  so the fact that you call into question these ideas is both painful and unnecessary.  through its own evolution the theories and hypotheses will be routed out or confirmed, so please quit attempting to deny what is progressing at a prodigious rate.  now that we have settled these two aggressive tactics, i think a reconciliation is in order.  here is possibly the best i&#8217;ve ever heard of it&#8230;are you ready? science explains HOW&#8230;but it is left to religion to explain WHY. science explains how things work, how all the universe came to be in all its myriad splendor (no it was not made in seven days so quit harping about it), it is left to religion to explain why though.  religion is there to give it meaning. science has no moral code by which to guide it, it is the people who utilize science that must direct its purpose&#8211;the same technology that powers most of modern france annihilated the cities of nagasaki and hiroshima in an instant.  i&#8217;m not saying that those of science are immoral, just that they cannot explain to me why there is something here instead of nothing, why we exist at all and why we must act as human beings and why we think the way we do and why we must be moral people.  that is left to the human element of the equation and i hope that is kept in mind.  the two faiths-in religion-and in science are not mutually exclusive or inclusive, but rather may run parallel if we allow them to.</p>
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		<title>By: Scientology101</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2008/05/15/university-sued-for-saying-earth-not-created-in-6-days/comment-page-1/#comment-27480</link>
		<dc:creator>Scientology101</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 21:34:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2008/05/15/university-sued-for-saying-earth-not-created-in-6-days/#comment-27480</guid>
		<description>Hail Science!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hail Science!</p>
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		<title>By: tom</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2008/05/15/university-sued-for-saying-earth-not-created-in-6-days/comment-page-1/#comment-27454</link>
		<dc:creator>tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 22:27:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2008/05/15/university-sued-for-saying-earth-not-created-in-6-days/#comment-27454</guid>
		<description>Science is the cultivation of ideas that describe and predict measurements, with an aim to maximize the predictive strength of the ideas.  Thus for an idea to be scientific one it must describe and predict very precisely, so that one can decide it&#039;s predictive strength. 

Religious ideas on the other hand are viral, emotionally manipulative, and usually untestable. When they are testable, believers are so confused that they ignore direct counterexamples, in other words they ignore the fact that their ideas do not even describe phenomena correctly, much less make testable predictions. 

Science good. 
Religion bad. 

http://whatstheharm.net/index.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Science is the cultivation of ideas that describe and predict measurements, with an aim to maximize the predictive strength of the ideas.  Thus for an idea to be scientific one it must describe and predict very precisely, so that one can decide it&#8217;s predictive strength. </p>
<p>Religious ideas on the other hand are viral, emotionally manipulative, and usually untestable. When they are testable, believers are so confused that they ignore direct counterexamples, in other words they ignore the fact that their ideas do not even describe phenomena correctly, much less make testable predictions. </p>
<p>Science good.<br />
Religion bad. </p>
<p><a href="http://whatstheharm.net/index.html" rel="nofollow">http://whatstheharm.net/index.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Greg</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2008/05/15/university-sued-for-saying-earth-not-created-in-6-days/comment-page-1/#comment-27428</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 02:33:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2008/05/15/university-sued-for-saying-earth-not-created-in-6-days/#comment-27428</guid>
		<description>&quot;Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free&quot;  -  John 8:32</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free&#8221;  &#8211;  John 8:32</p>
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		<title>By: Gabriel ArKangel</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2008/05/15/university-sued-for-saying-earth-not-created-in-6-days/comment-page-1/#comment-27370</link>
		<dc:creator>Gabriel ArKangel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 16:32:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2008/05/15/university-sued-for-saying-earth-not-created-in-6-days/#comment-27370</guid>
		<description>Who dare to said creationist Christians doesn&#039;t change their beliefs based in new facts or evidence? .They have evolved and I can prove it!!!. 

Back in 1633 if someone dare to believe in something that contradicts the bible he or she must be burned to death in public after physical punishment and torment so they go to hell and keep burning and suffering forever and ever.

This is a proven Fact, hundreds of historical documents support this. Hundred Thousands where burned in the name of god.

Today they have evolved, now they don&#039;t believe that someone must die, now they behave like civilized people they take you to court!!!! 

But they still believe that your soul  will burn until the end of times...

I wonder which of the hell circles is the one for  secular organizations and Universities ( the eternal punishment is to read stupid creationist blogs and web sites)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Who dare to said creationist Christians doesn&#8217;t change their beliefs based in new facts or evidence? .They have evolved and I can prove it!!!. </p>
<p>Back in 1633 if someone dare to believe in something that contradicts the bible he or she must be burned to death in public after physical punishment and torment so they go to hell and keep burning and suffering forever and ever.</p>
<p>This is a proven Fact, hundreds of historical documents support this. Hundred Thousands where burned in the name of god.</p>
<p>Today they have evolved, now they don&#8217;t believe that someone must die, now they behave like civilized people they take you to court!!!! </p>
<p>But they still believe that your soul  will burn until the end of times&#8230;</p>
<p>I wonder which of the hell circles is the one for  secular organizations and Universities ( the eternal punishment is to read stupid creationist blogs and web sites)</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Jones</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2008/05/15/university-sued-for-saying-earth-not-created-in-6-days/comment-page-1/#comment-27368</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 03:02:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2008/05/15/university-sued-for-saying-earth-not-created-in-6-days/#comment-27368</guid>
		<description>As a so-called ‘religious’ type I will give you a definition of ‘truth’: truth is conformity of mind to reality. Yet,  it seems to me this is precisely the condition the so-called ‘science’ types are ignorant of. At lest Nietzche was bold enough to realize the natural consequence of science - if the Big-Bang is true, and the universe is based on an eternal return scenario of expansion, collapse, re-creation, then even the laws of physics are not eternal. They would be randomly re-written at each new moment of creation. Therefore, there would be nothing to base truth on. Likewise, for real truth to exist the highest of all truths cannot be based on paradox and contradiction. Yet, this is precisely what Einstein has given us: the highest of all scientific holy truths is one based on absurdity, paradox and contradiction. The modern cosmologist has thrown away his instruments of observation long ago in favor of the mathematical equation defying all observational evidence. As absurd as a 6 day creation event is, it still falls within the domain of the possible, all be it remote. However, no amount of of self-esteem, grandiose statements, and high brow demeaning rhetoric can make a system that necessarily ends in contradiction ‘true’.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a so-called ‘religious’ type I will give you a definition of ‘truth’: truth is conformity of mind to reality. Yet,  it seems to me this is precisely the condition the so-called ‘science’ types are ignorant of. At lest Nietzche was bold enough to realize the natural consequence of science &#8211; if the Big-Bang is true, and the universe is based on an eternal return scenario of expansion, collapse, re-creation, then even the laws of physics are not eternal. They would be randomly re-written at each new moment of creation. Therefore, there would be nothing to base truth on. Likewise, for real truth to exist the highest of all truths cannot be based on paradox and contradiction. Yet, this is precisely what Einstein has given us: the highest of all scientific holy truths is one based on absurdity, paradox and contradiction. The modern cosmologist has thrown away his instruments of observation long ago in favor of the mathematical equation defying all observational evidence. As absurd as a 6 day creation event is, it still falls within the domain of the possible, all be it remote. However, no amount of of self-esteem, grandiose statements, and high brow demeaning rhetoric can make a system that necessarily ends in contradiction ‘true’.</p>
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		<title>By: caseywollberg</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2008/05/15/university-sued-for-saying-earth-not-created-in-6-days/comment-page-1/#comment-27366</link>
		<dc:creator>caseywollberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 22:37:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2008/05/15/university-sued-for-saying-earth-not-created-in-6-days/#comment-27366</guid>
		<description>&quot;...?religious types? as not being fans of the truth, yet truth is exactly what they believe in.&quot;

You&#039;re going to have to give us a definition of &quot;truth&quot; to go along with this claim. If it&#039;s anything like the correspondence theory of truth, then &quot;religious types&quot; typically live their daily lives as though they &quot;believe in truth,&quot; but when it comes time to discuss theology or science, they switch to the team that says, in essence, Truth is whatever we want it to be, regardless of observable facts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;?religious types? as not being fans of the truth, yet truth is exactly what they believe in.&#8221;</p>
<p>You&#8217;re going to have to give us a definition of &#8220;truth&#8221; to go along with this claim. If it&#8217;s anything like the correspondence theory of truth, then &#8220;religious types&#8221; typically live their daily lives as though they &#8220;believe in truth,&#8221; but when it comes time to discuss theology or science, they switch to the team that says, in essence, Truth is whatever we want it to be, regardless of observable facts.</p>
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		<title>By: caseywollberg</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2008/05/15/university-sued-for-saying-earth-not-created-in-6-days/comment-page-1/#comment-27365</link>
		<dc:creator>caseywollberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 22:17:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2008/05/15/university-sued-for-saying-earth-not-created-in-6-days/#comment-27365</guid>
		<description>&quot;(P.S. Yes, I am aware that 98% of Christians are not like these nutballs and want nothing to do with them.)&quot;

How did you determine this figure? Would you provide a peer-reviewed study to back it up?

&quot;...a very small minority of religious nut-jobs are trying to ruin it for the rest of the spiritual community.&quot;

Please define your terms &quot;small minority&quot;,  &quot;religious nut-jobs&quot; and &quot;spiritual community.&quot;

&quot;SO, if you read the article, science has conflicting arguments just as religion does. Just because one is incapable of higher thought doesnt mean that he or she is right. if you think about it science is as amuch of a religion as hinduism, christianity, or islam. people live by it. so dont go bashing peoples religions, you have your own, let every man have his own.&quot;

The difference between science and religion, as if it hasn&#039;t been said enough, is that the observations of science are capable of being falsified and independently verified. In the cases where supernatural claims follow this model, they are invariably shown to be false; otherwise, they are mere fantasy predicated on nothing but the whims of those who hold them--no submission to evidence or data, no reliable way of ascertaining their truth-value, nothing. I wish it could be gotten across to fantasists that there exists this important distinction between their baseless fantasies and observations of external reality hard-won through the scientific method. 

The uneducated assertion that the &quot;findings of science&quot; are constantly changing, or that scientists disagree on some technical explanation for some theory you don&#039;t understand, does not in any way support the ludicrous position that &quot;science is as much of a religion as hinduism, christianity, or islam.&quot; 

And what is this &quot;higher thinking&quot; you assume the non-religious are incapable of? Do you mean &quot;faith?&quot; Faith is the opposite of thinking. Faith is a closing down of rational thought, a casting off of curiosity, an unexamined acceptance of what cannot be true unless it is declared true by fiat, or based on some appeal to authority or emotion. If one is to call this &quot;higher thinking,&quot; then we may as well throw out our dictionaries.

&quot;...so dont go bashing peoples religions, you have your own, let every man have his own.&quot;

Only a brain crowded with irrational cognitive structures, or one with a duplicitous agenda, could equate an argument against religious belief and/or practice with an argument against religious freedom. Do you not appreciate that one may champion freedom of religion politically while arguing academically that religion is a trap for fools and a paradise for charlatans? As Voltaire put it, &quot;I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.&quot;

The persistence of foolish claims and retorts such as these means that we must never tire of countering them. Thankfully we have in English a singularly expressive and prolific vocabulary with which to make the repeating of arguments a somewhat less than monotonous experience.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;(P.S. Yes, I am aware that 98% of Christians are not like these nutballs and want nothing to do with them.)&#8221;</p>
<p>How did you determine this figure? Would you provide a peer-reviewed study to back it up?</p>
<p>&#8220;&#8230;a very small minority of religious nut-jobs are trying to ruin it for the rest of the spiritual community.&#8221;</p>
<p>Please define your terms &#8220;small minority&#8221;,  &#8220;religious nut-jobs&#8221; and &#8220;spiritual community.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;SO, if you read the article, science has conflicting arguments just as religion does. Just because one is incapable of higher thought doesnt mean that he or she is right. if you think about it science is as amuch of a religion as hinduism, christianity, or islam. people live by it. so dont go bashing peoples religions, you have your own, let every man have his own.&#8221;</p>
<p>The difference between science and religion, as if it hasn&#8217;t been said enough, is that the observations of science are capable of being falsified and independently verified. In the cases where supernatural claims follow this model, they are invariably shown to be false; otherwise, they are mere fantasy predicated on nothing but the whims of those who hold them&#8211;no submission to evidence or data, no reliable way of ascertaining their truth-value, nothing. I wish it could be gotten across to fantasists that there exists this important distinction between their baseless fantasies and observations of external reality hard-won through the scientific method. </p>
<p>The uneducated assertion that the &#8220;findings of science&#8221; are constantly changing, or that scientists disagree on some technical explanation for some theory you don&#8217;t understand, does not in any way support the ludicrous position that &#8220;science is as much of a religion as hinduism, christianity, or islam.&#8221; </p>
<p>And what is this &#8220;higher thinking&#8221; you assume the non-religious are incapable of? Do you mean &#8220;faith?&#8221; Faith is the opposite of thinking. Faith is a closing down of rational thought, a casting off of curiosity, an unexamined acceptance of what cannot be true unless it is declared true by fiat, or based on some appeal to authority or emotion. If one is to call this &#8220;higher thinking,&#8221; then we may as well throw out our dictionaries.</p>
<p>&#8220;&#8230;so dont go bashing peoples religions, you have your own, let every man have his own.&#8221;</p>
<p>Only a brain crowded with irrational cognitive structures, or one with a duplicitous agenda, could equate an argument against religious belief and/or practice with an argument against religious freedom. Do you not appreciate that one may champion freedom of religion politically while arguing academically that religion is a trap for fools and a paradise for charlatans? As Voltaire put it, &#8220;I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.&#8221;</p>
<p>The persistence of foolish claims and retorts such as these means that we must never tire of countering them. Thankfully we have in English a singularly expressive and prolific vocabulary with which to make the repeating of arguments a somewhat less than monotonous experience.</p>
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		<title>By: eoin</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2008/05/15/university-sued-for-saying-earth-not-created-in-6-days/comment-page-1/#comment-27361</link>
		<dc:creator>eoin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 21:00:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2008/05/15/university-sued-for-saying-earth-not-created-in-6-days/#comment-27361</guid>
		<description>for f**k sake religion is wrong. stop going on about what science knew and now knows, science is learning and developing religion has its hands over its ears going la la la la not listening to you.

true science doesnt get it right all the time but religion never gets it right so f**k all religion its bulls**t i&#039;ll take fact and the real world over fantasy and bulls**t stories any day

[Moderator&#039;s note: edited out the cuss words.]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>for f**k sake religion is wrong. stop going on about what science knew and now knows, science is learning and developing religion has its hands over its ears going la la la la not listening to you.</p>
<p>true science doesnt get it right all the time but religion never gets it right so f**k all religion its bulls**t i&#8217;ll take fact and the real world over fantasy and bulls**t stories any day</p>
<p>[Moderator's note: edited out the cuss words.]</p>
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		<title>By: no qualms</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2008/05/15/university-sued-for-saying-earth-not-created-in-6-days/comment-page-1/#comment-27315</link>
		<dc:creator>no qualms</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Oct 2009 14:34:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2008/05/15/university-sued-for-saying-earth-not-created-in-6-days/#comment-27315</guid>
		<description>SO, if you read the article, science has conflicting arguments just as religion does.  Just because one is incapable of higher thought doesnt mean that he or she is right.  if you think about it science is as amuch of a religion as hinduism, christianity, or islam.  people live by it. so dont go bashing peoples religions, you have your own, let every man have his own.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SO, if you read the article, science has conflicting arguments just as religion does.  Just because one is incapable of higher thought doesnt mean that he or she is right.  if you think about it science is as amuch of a religion as hinduism, christianity, or islam.  people live by it. so dont go bashing peoples religions, you have your own, let every man have his own.</p>
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