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	<title>Comments on: It’s Not What You Say, It’s the Order in Which You Say It</title>
	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2008/07/02/it%e2%80%99s-not-what-you-say-it%e2%80%99s-the-order-in-which-you-say-it/</link>
	<description>Quirky, funny, and surprising science news from the edge of the known universe.</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 09:35:55 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Ferenc Kovacs</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2008/07/02/it%e2%80%99s-not-what-you-say-it%e2%80%99s-the-order-in-which-you-say-it/#comment-8711</link>
		<dc:creator>Ferenc Kovacs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jul 2008 16:03:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2008/07/02/it%e2%80%99s-not-what-you-say-it%e2%80%99s-the-order-in-which-you-say-it/#comment-8711</guid>
		<description>This is quite understandable, if you accept the assumption that in a proper  core ontology (AI) consists of object, property and relation only. In defining grammar people spent too much time on syntax (rules) and morphology, whereas we can think without words, just as animals. Relations are normally verbs, where a verb can have a subject and an object in a VP format, which is a message. All other word clusters are labels, headings or titles, noun phrases in other words. But relations are normally hidden, this is why they are the subject of all science. Mathematics is the science of relations, and all relations may be simplified to the basic equal/identical or non equal/identical equation.
Therefore until you do not start exploring how our mind works with those three categories, you will not be able to disclose and show the chains of relations  of objects, properties and relations. If you are interested in hearing some more, write to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is quite understandable, if you accept the assumption that in a proper  core ontology (AI) consists of object, property and relation only. In defining grammar people spent too much time on syntax (rules) and morphology, whereas we can think without words, just as animals. Relations are normally verbs, where a verb can have a subject and an object in a VP format, which is a message. All other word clusters are labels, headings or titles, noun phrases in other words. But relations are normally hidden, this is why they are the subject of all science. Mathematics is the science of relations, and all relations may be simplified to the basic equal/identical or non equal/identical equation.<br />
Therefore until you do not start exploring how our mind works with those three categories, you will not be able to disclose and show the chains of relations  of objects, properties and relations. If you are interested in hearing some more, write to me.</p>
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		<title>By: Mr. 10 Seconds Ago</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2008/07/02/it%e2%80%99s-not-what-you-say-it%e2%80%99s-the-order-in-which-you-say-it/#comment-7738</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr. 10 Seconds Ago</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 02:27:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2008/07/02/it%e2%80%99s-not-what-you-say-it%e2%80%99s-the-order-in-which-you-say-it/#comment-7738</guid>
		<description>This is an interesting idea.  On the other hand, it seems possible that the order in which someone expresses the parts of speech could be influenced more by the mode of expression than by his or her own formation of the thought.  Communicating is like revealing a story, so why should we accept that the way someone communicates something is indicative of the way their mind would have formed the idea.

As an example, imagine that you want to draw a cartoon showing Captain Ahab swinging his pail about.  A likely first frame or two would consist of Ahab, or the pail, or the pair of them, to establish the players.  Then the following frame could illustrate the swinging quite chaotically without fear of a reader failing to understand the who and the what.

Maybe this is a more applicable example: consider a person who is developing a vocabulary of physical gestures and has no prior knowledge of any sign language.  In the primitive form of communication that is likely to ensue, the differences between the verbs "to swing" and "to hit" may be too subtle to clearly distinguish between them as isolated gestures.  For this reason, if they wanted to express the idea "The captain swings the pail," one could argue that it is more fruitful to express the verb only after the nature of the object has been roughly established, as this would help clarify the intent of the verb.

I realize that you can argue in the reverse direction as well, so that the swinging informs us of the nature of the pail, but there may be a slight difference.  Subjects and objects often exist physically in proximity to a conversation which references them, whereas verbs exist only in execution.  Thus nouns might be easier to establish by context.

Anyway, it just seems like there are more ways to interpret data like that which the research describes.  Still pretty interesting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is an interesting idea.  On the other hand, it seems possible that the order in which someone expresses the parts of speech could be influenced more by the mode of expression than by his or her own formation of the thought.  Communicating is like revealing a story, so why should we accept that the way someone communicates something is indicative of the way their mind would have formed the idea.</p>
<p>As an example, imagine that you want to draw a cartoon showing Captain Ahab swinging his pail about.  A likely first frame or two would consist of Ahab, or the pail, or the pair of them, to establish the players.  Then the following frame could illustrate the swinging quite chaotically without fear of a reader failing to understand the who and the what.</p>
<p>Maybe this is a more applicable example: consider a person who is developing a vocabulary of physical gestures and has no prior knowledge of any sign language.  In the primitive form of communication that is likely to ensue, the differences between the verbs &#8220;to swing&#8221; and &#8220;to hit&#8221; may be too subtle to clearly distinguish between them as isolated gestures.  For this reason, if they wanted to express the idea &#8220;The captain swings the pail,&#8221; one could argue that it is more fruitful to express the verb only after the nature of the object has been roughly established, as this would help clarify the intent of the verb.</p>
<p>I realize that you can argue in the reverse direction as well, so that the swinging informs us of the nature of the pail, but there may be a slight difference.  Subjects and objects often exist physically in proximity to a conversation which references them, whereas verbs exist only in execution.  Thus nouns might be easier to establish by context.</p>
<p>Anyway, it just seems like there are more ways to interpret data like that which the research describes.  Still pretty interesting.</p>
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