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	<title>Comments on: Will the LHC’s Future Cancel Out Its Past?</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2008/08/11/will-the-lhc%e2%80%99s-future-cancel-out-its-past/</link>
	<description>Quirky, funny, and surprising science news from the edge of the known universe.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 02:07:52 -0600</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Tenko</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2008/08/11/will-the-lhc%e2%80%99s-future-cancel-out-its-past/comment-page-1/#comment-27572</link>
		<dc:creator>Tenko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 23:42:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2008/08/11/will-the-lhc%e2%80%99s-future-cancel-out-its-past/#comment-27572</guid>
		<description>Oh, even better...

Construct a platform which is held up by a bar. Design the mechanism so that on a certain date the bar will automatically be pulled from the platform. Once the bar is pulled, the platform would be designed to dump whatever is on top of it (nothing will be placed on top of it) into a large hole. The hole will have sensors in it which will detect whether or not a large amount of gold has been dropped into it. If anything other than 2,000 pounds of gold falls into the hole, the &quot;on&quot; signal will be sent to the LHC.

Another way to make the future give you what you want by threatening to blow up the universe. Isn&#039;t violence great? ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, even better&#8230;</p>
<p>Construct a platform which is held up by a bar. Design the mechanism so that on a certain date the bar will automatically be pulled from the platform. Once the bar is pulled, the platform would be designed to dump whatever is on top of it (nothing will be placed on top of it) into a large hole. The hole will have sensors in it which will detect whether or not a large amount of gold has been dropped into it. If anything other than 2,000 pounds of gold falls into the hole, the &#8220;on&#8221; signal will be sent to the LHC.</p>
<p>Another way to make the future give you what you want by threatening to blow up the universe. Isn&#8217;t violence great? <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Tenko</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2008/08/11/will-the-lhc%e2%80%99s-future-cancel-out-its-past/comment-page-1/#comment-27571</link>
		<dc:creator>Tenko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 23:38:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2008/08/11/will-the-lhc%e2%80%99s-future-cancel-out-its-past/#comment-27571</guid>
		<description>Assuming the truth of the grandfather paradox, that the LHC will do anything in order to prevent itself from turning on...

...we now have a method for making people immortal. Think about it.

Hook up General Johnson Jamison to a machine which will monitor the general&#039;s lifesigns. Design the interfact to turn the LHC on if the general dies. If the paradox holds true, what will happen is, the LHC will prevent the general from dying in order to stop the &quot;on&quot; signal from being transmitted to the LHC. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Assuming the truth of the grandfather paradox, that the LHC will do anything in order to prevent itself from turning on&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8230;we now have a method for making people immortal. Think about it.</p>
<p>Hook up General Johnson Jamison to a machine which will monitor the general&#8217;s lifesigns. Design the interfact to turn the LHC on if the general dies. If the paradox holds true, what will happen is, the LHC will prevent the general from dying in order to stop the &#8220;on&#8221; signal from being transmitted to the LHC. <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Oscar</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2008/08/11/will-the-lhc%e2%80%99s-future-cancel-out-its-past/comment-page-1/#comment-27103</link>
		<dc:creator>Oscar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Oct 2009 11:28:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2008/08/11/will-the-lhc%e2%80%99s-future-cancel-out-its-past/#comment-27103</guid>
		<description>I would suggest people go to 

http://arxiv.org/

and actually _read_ these papers. They are fascinating, even to those of us whose math is no longer up to reading them with critical rigor.

The hysteria about the LHC is one thing, but the massive resistance to Nielsen and Ninomiya&#039;s ideas is even more astonishing to me. They are crystal clear, of course, that their hypothesis about the LHC potentially violating the conservation of the baryon number, and thus being unable to function because initial conditions must lead to a future in which baryons are conserved, is very unlikely to be true.

Their point is that they have some mathematical reasons to suspect that it might be, and an interesting proposal about how to test it. It is an entirely rational paper, to say the least.

All I know is that there has been no more exciting time to be alive if you&#039;re a physics lover. As for black holes consuming the earth, all science points to that not happening, and it&#039;s good science. We didn&#039;t fall off the earth into the mouths of dragons, right?

I would also suggest that once the LHC is running, and it is my guess that it will be, the folks who have been worried about the end of the world take a close look at themselves and their attitudes. See if you can figure out why you have been so distrustful, afraid, and negativistic. You&#039;ll have time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would suggest people go to </p>
<p><a href="http://arxiv.org/" rel="nofollow">http://arxiv.org/</a></p>
<p>and actually _read_ these papers. They are fascinating, even to those of us whose math is no longer up to reading them with critical rigor.</p>
<p>The hysteria about the LHC is one thing, but the massive resistance to Nielsen and Ninomiya&#8217;s ideas is even more astonishing to me. They are crystal clear, of course, that their hypothesis about the LHC potentially violating the conservation of the baryon number, and thus being unable to function because initial conditions must lead to a future in which baryons are conserved, is very unlikely to be true.</p>
<p>Their point is that they have some mathematical reasons to suspect that it might be, and an interesting proposal about how to test it. It is an entirely rational paper, to say the least.</p>
<p>All I know is that there has been no more exciting time to be alive if you&#8217;re a physics lover. As for black holes consuming the earth, all science points to that not happening, and it&#8217;s good science. We didn&#8217;t fall off the earth into the mouths of dragons, right?</p>
<p>I would also suggest that once the LHC is running, and it is my guess that it will be, the folks who have been worried about the end of the world take a close look at themselves and their attitudes. See if you can figure out why you have been so distrustful, afraid, and negativistic. You&#8217;ll have time.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2008/08/11/will-the-lhc%e2%80%99s-future-cancel-out-its-past/comment-page-1/#comment-27024</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 13:48:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2008/08/11/will-the-lhc%e2%80%99s-future-cancel-out-its-past/#comment-27024</guid>
		<description>Robert Marsh:   &quot;There is a small band of scientists, physicists, and mathematicians scattered worldwide, whose theories flew in the face of the current interpreted ‘Standard Model’.&quot;....;. Robert, frankly, you don&#039;t know what you are talking about. There are essentially no mainstream physicist who think the &quot;Standard Model&quot; is correct.  The word &quot;Standard&quot; identifies a specific model well known to be incomplete and even wrong; it is NOT merely a modifier  used to indicate common wisdom.  Also in academics there are no &quot;gag-orders&quot;.  Freedom of ideas is the core philosophy behind academics in any reasonably well adjusted nation.  Not too some ideas aren&#039;t met with skepticism.  Of course some are.  Wildly new ideas require some vetting.  That&#039;s true for building passenger planes too I hope.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robert Marsh:   &#8220;There is a small band of scientists, physicists, and mathematicians scattered worldwide, whose theories flew in the face of the current interpreted ‘Standard Model’.&#8221;&#8230;.;. Robert, frankly, you don&#8217;t know what you are talking about. There are essentially no mainstream physicist who think the &#8220;Standard Model&#8221; is correct.  The word &#8220;Standard&#8221; identifies a specific model well known to be incomplete and even wrong; it is NOT merely a modifier  used to indicate common wisdom.  Also in academics there are no &#8220;gag-orders&#8221;.  Freedom of ideas is the core philosophy behind academics in any reasonably well adjusted nation.  Not too some ideas aren&#8217;t met with skepticism.  Of course some are.  Wildly new ideas require some vetting.  That&#8217;s true for building passenger planes too I hope.</p>
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		<title>By: What&#8217;s Making The Collider Fail? Could It Be Something From The Future? :) &#124; World News At Its Hottest</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2008/08/11/will-the-lhc%e2%80%99s-future-cancel-out-its-past/comment-page-1/#comment-26870</link>
		<dc:creator>What&#8217;s Making The Collider Fail? Could It Be Something From The Future? :) &#124; World News At Its Hottest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 19:01:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2008/08/11/will-the-lhc%e2%80%99s-future-cancel-out-its-past/#comment-26870</guid>
		<description>[...] scientists Holger Nielsen and Masao Ninomiya wasn&#8217;t anything new. Discover&#8217;s Discoblog wrote about it in August 2008. And the physicists have been writing about this since at least July [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] scientists Holger Nielsen and Masao Ninomiya wasn&#8217;t anything new. Discover&#8217;s Discoblog wrote about it in August 2008. And the physicists have been writing about this since at least July [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Paanchajanyadharaaya</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2008/08/11/will-the-lhc%e2%80%99s-future-cancel-out-its-past/comment-page-1/#comment-25131</link>
		<dc:creator>Paanchajanyadharaaya</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Aug 2009 23:30:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2008/08/11/will-the-lhc%e2%80%99s-future-cancel-out-its-past/#comment-25131</guid>
		<description>good read</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>good read</p>
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		<title>By: Remove Genital warts</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2008/08/11/will-the-lhc%e2%80%99s-future-cancel-out-its-past/comment-page-1/#comment-22681</link>
		<dc:creator>Remove Genital warts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Apr 2009 13:05:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2008/08/11/will-the-lhc%e2%80%99s-future-cancel-out-its-past/#comment-22681</guid>
		<description>I am sure you can solve this. Just take a search on google or yahoo.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am sure you can solve this. Just take a search on google or yahoo.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Weflen</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2008/08/11/will-the-lhc%e2%80%99s-future-cancel-out-its-past/comment-page-1/#comment-20656</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Weflen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 06:33:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2008/08/11/will-the-lhc%e2%80%99s-future-cancel-out-its-past/#comment-20656</guid>
		<description>Geno - 

How exactly are we to determine what is &quot;completely impossible&quot; without first testing the limits of what are &quot;probable&quot; and &quot;improbable?&quot; Then, how are we to truly determine with logical certainty that something is &quot;completely impossible&quot; simply because we have not observed it?

Your comment betrays a fundamental misunderstanding of the scientific method and of the problem of inductive knowledge. If our culture had proceeded by your rubric for scientific advances, we&#039;d still be living in mud huts and hunting and gathering. We certainly wouldn&#039;t have the thrill of posting comments on the Internet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Geno &#8211; </p>
<p>How exactly are we to determine what is &#8220;completely impossible&#8221; without first testing the limits of what are &#8220;probable&#8221; and &#8220;improbable?&#8221; Then, how are we to truly determine with logical certainty that something is &#8220;completely impossible&#8221; simply because we have not observed it?</p>
<p>Your comment betrays a fundamental misunderstanding of the scientific method and of the problem of inductive knowledge. If our culture had proceeded by your rubric for scientific advances, we&#8217;d still be living in mud huts and hunting and gathering. We certainly wouldn&#8217;t have the thrill of posting comments on the Internet.</p>
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		<title>By: Geno - USA</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2008/08/11/will-the-lhc%e2%80%99s-future-cancel-out-its-past/comment-page-1/#comment-17599</link>
		<dc:creator>Geno - USA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 18:34:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2008/08/11/will-the-lhc%e2%80%99s-future-cancel-out-its-past/#comment-17599</guid>
		<description>Mike Says - Don&#039;t worry about &quot;highly implausible&quot; scenarios.

As &quot;highly implausible&quot; as a run on the banks?  As &quot;highly implausible&quot; as a 500 year flood happening twice in 10 years?

Mike, if the possibility of causing great harm is only &quot;highly implausible&quot;, I suggest that physicists wait until it is &quot;completely impossible&quot; before proceeding.  The discoveries that are promoted by the CERN people are not worth that much to the average person and do not justify risks of this nature and magnitude.

Remember when reputable scientists were saying that the atmospheric nuclear tests were not risky?  We are still dealing with the effects of that blunder almost 60 years after the fact.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike Says &#8211; Don&#8217;t worry about &#8220;highly implausible&#8221; scenarios.</p>
<p>As &#8220;highly implausible&#8221; as a run on the banks?  As &#8220;highly implausible&#8221; as a 500 year flood happening twice in 10 years?</p>
<p>Mike, if the possibility of causing great harm is only &#8220;highly implausible&#8221;, I suggest that physicists wait until it is &#8220;completely impossible&#8221; before proceeding.  The discoveries that are promoted by the CERN people are not worth that much to the average person and do not justify risks of this nature and magnitude.</p>
<p>Remember when reputable scientists were saying that the atmospheric nuclear tests were not risky?  We are still dealing with the effects of that blunder almost 60 years after the fact.</p>
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		<title>By: caleb shamblin</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2008/08/11/will-the-lhc%e2%80%99s-future-cancel-out-its-past/comment-page-1/#comment-17069</link>
		<dc:creator>caleb shamblin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Nov 2008 16:59:51 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>there is soo much going on in our universe, that if it were right in front of us we wouldnt know what to do about it. aside from mess with it and test its limits, observe, and possibly destroy it. 
i do believe that the lhc could possibly link us to a mirror universe. 
if a black hole is a possibility from result of the collider than why not.
on another note, lets say this does make some strange portal to our universe counterpart then it proves the theory of a austrailian scientist that mirror matter exists. . . 
i think we should at any cost experiment with as much of this that our technoology will allow. and if it destroys our planet, its not the end of the universe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>there is soo much going on in our universe, that if it were right in front of us we wouldnt know what to do about it. aside from mess with it and test its limits, observe, and possibly destroy it.<br />
i do believe that the lhc could possibly link us to a mirror universe.<br />
if a black hole is a possibility from result of the collider than why not.<br />
on another note, lets say this does make some strange portal to our universe counterpart then it proves the theory of a austrailian scientist that mirror matter exists. . .<br />
i think we should at any cost experiment with as much of this that our technoology will allow. and if it destroys our planet, its not the end of the universe.</p>
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