Comments on: The Science of Virgin Birth http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2009/01/09/the-science-of-virgin-birth/ Quirky, funny, and surprising science news from the edge of the known universe. Tue, 14 Feb 2012 09:24:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Jonathan Canfield http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2009/01/09/the-science-of-virgin-birth/comment-page-1/#comment-84532 Jonathan Canfield Wed, 04 Jan 2012 00:33:00 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2009/01/09/the-science-of-virgin-birth/#comment-84532 The above interpretation of the actual/physical historic Record is not intended to reduce the Omnipotence of our Creator or the Logos of Jesus. The information is intended to point towards a complex history of advancement leading to fully aware, fully accountable, fully free-willed, human beings that have one, foremost-significant choice to make in life. For the first time ever, everyone who looks can access a majority of the supporting information regarding the history of the World. Inasmuch, comprehending what every author of the Bible intended. However, those writers made full use of: genetic history, analogy, symbolism, poetry, Doctrine/Law, and Divinity combined with geographic & historic facts. The Bible covers it in many ways.  Regardless, if we are unable to comprehend an actual/physical record that is also very evident; how in the World could anyone ever advance onto understanding non-physical, Divine expectations? We will never see those things alive.  It is not "...oh he of little faith..." anymore. And, we can't just pretend that the Creator has not done plenty enough already to instill adequate enough faith--Including a Virgin Birth--impossible by anyone alone.  Knowing this current and available record, modern humans have surely advanced onto understanding the most complex and invisible expectations of all- the Trinity, Ascension, love/compassion, neighborly conduct, Good Will, Faith, and finally Heaven. Pretending that it is all just a magical mystery at this point in time... well, that is probably an unwise choice that most of us will have to decide for ourselves, one way or the other.   The above interpretation of the actual/physical historic Record is not intended to reduce the Omnipotence of our Creator or the Logos of Jesus. The information is intended to point towards a complex history of advancement leading to fully aware, fully accountable, fully free-willed, human beings that have one, foremost-significant choice to make in life.

For the first time ever, everyone who looks can access a majority of the supporting information regarding the history of the World. Inasmuch, comprehending what every author of the Bible intended. However, those writers made full use of: genetic history, analogy, symbolism, poetry, Doctrine/Law, and Divinity combined with geographic & historic facts. The Bible covers it in many ways. 

Regardless, if we are unable to comprehend an actual/physical record that is also very evident; how in the World could anyone ever advance onto understanding non-physical, Divine expectations? We will never see those things alive. 

It is not “…oh he of little faith…” anymore. And, we can’t just pretend that the Creator has not done plenty enough already to instill adequate enough faith–Including a Virgin Birth–impossible by anyone alone. 

Knowing this current and available record, modern humans have surely advanced onto understanding the most complex and invisible expectations of all- the Trinity, Ascension, love/compassion, neighborly conduct, Good Will, Faith, and finally Heaven.

Pretending that it is all just a magical mystery at this point in time… well, that is probably an unwise choice that most of us will have to decide for ourselves, one way or the other.  

]]> By: Jonathan Canfield http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2009/01/09/the-science-of-virgin-birth/comment-page-1/#comment-84397 Jonathan Canfield Mon, 02 Jan 2012 18:01:00 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2009/01/09/the-science-of-virgin-birth/#comment-84397 ... Very excellent points and interpretations Den. After pursuing American business for 13-years, I managed to close-up shops and earn a BA in Business and the Biological Sciences in late 2010. Going to college later in life, I had many practical questions to address: Creation v. Evolution, origins of written and artistic expressions, DNA as associated to gene pool diversity, mechanics v. organics, Social, psychological and emotional perceptions in humans, collective v. individual duty, physical and intellectual ideals, and male v. female psychosocial advancement/progress. The bottom line with the "virgin birth" is, it had to have happened in the farthest reaches of our beginnings. Women were here first. However, a virgin birth leading to male Homo Sapien is not a matter of if, but when.  These clear miraculous scientific events took place not only in the origins of humans, but in the advancement of our species. There was a sudden precise-point threshold from whence a very basic human creature entered history in a very advanced way, intelligent forces coupled with a complex ability to plan their active future topped all other mammalian potentials theretofore. This was in Ur or proximal to Ur. DNA mapping tethered to modern Geographic Paleontology tells the full story. Monotheism was not too far over the horizon for these folks.  Although many humans are not in sync with their coupled violent capacities, after the males of our species first appeared (S.E.Africa), a complex diet of proteins (from animals that suffered a violent death from these guys) advanced human myelination production, and better intellectual equipment production was then DNA coded (white & grey matter). If you really want to get into mysterious origins of human biology and physiology, the blue eyes becomes a pretty complex issue, due to all humans being from light-skinned Africans, in origin. Inasmuch, Mendel's genetic models of dominant, non-recessive gene theory is put to task. Maybe those LasCaux cave painters from 27,000 BC had a lot more to say than: "this is what I used to kill and eat" (hear me roar).  I think when they were stuck in those caves due to a catastrophic external environment-atmosphere, those many years in close proximity with women resulted in events that would make scenes from the movie 'Alive' seem like a side item option de jour. Based on the art, these people were very intelligent and aware of their pinnacle status.  Something to ponder: if the diet altered evolutionary physiological DNA coding through these diverse and complex animal proteins, how much more do you think the DNA became altered (think European Bovine here) through non-diverse cannibalism? Wherefore, it may become obvious, the true origins of insanity, those lovely blue eyes, fear, and action stagnation, began by being stuck in THE CAVE...     … Very excellent points and interpretations Den. After pursuing American business for 13-years, I managed to close-up shops and earn a BA in Business and the Biological Sciences in late 2010.

Going to college later in life, I had many practical questions to address: Creation v. Evolution, origins of written and artistic expressions, DNA as associated to gene pool diversity, mechanics v. organics, Social, psychological and emotional perceptions in humans, collective v. individual duty, physical and intellectual ideals, and male v. female psychosocial advancement/progress.
The bottom line with the “virgin birth” is, it had to have happened in the farthest reaches of our beginnings. Women were here first. However, a virgin birth leading to male Homo Sapien is not a matter of if, but when. 

These clear miraculous scientific events took place not only in the origins of humans, but in the advancement of our species. There was a sudden precise-point threshold from whence a very basic human creature entered history in a very advanced way, intelligent forces coupled with a complex ability to plan their active future topped all other mammalian potentials theretofore. This was in Ur or proximal to Ur. DNA mapping tethered to modern Geographic Paleontology tells the full story. Monotheism was not too far over the horizon for these folks. 

Although many humans are not in sync with their coupled violent capacities, after the males of our species first appeared (S.E.Africa), a complex diet of proteins (from animals that suffered a violent death from these guys) advanced human myelination production, and better intellectual equipment production was then DNA coded (white & grey matter).

If you really want to get into mysterious origins of human biology and physiology, the blue eyes becomes a pretty complex issue, due to all humans being from light-skinned Africans, in origin. Inasmuch, Mendel’s genetic models of dominant, non-recessive gene theory is put to task. Maybe those LasCaux cave painters from 27,000 BC had a lot more to say than: “this is what I used to kill and eat” (hear me roar). 

I think when they were stuck in those caves due to a catastrophic external environment-atmosphere, those many years in close proximity with women resulted in events that would make scenes from the movie ‘Alive’ seem like a side item option de jour. Based on the art, these people were very intelligent and aware of their pinnacle status. 

Something to ponder: if the diet altered evolutionary physiological DNA coding through these diverse and complex animal proteins, how much more do you think the DNA became altered (think European Bovine here) through non-diverse cannibalism? Wherefore, it may become obvious, the true origins of insanity, those lovely blue eyes, fear, and action stagnation, began by being stuck in THE CAVE…    

]]> By: Ju No http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2009/01/09/the-science-of-virgin-birth/comment-page-2/#comment-83403 Ju No Fri, 23 Dec 2011 13:48:00 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2009/01/09/the-science-of-virgin-birth/#comment-83403 Some people make a living, and even get rich challenging Christianity,  and the miserable self-loathing  liberals fall for it. Some people make a living, and even get rich challenging Christianity, 
and the miserable self-loathing  liberals fall for it.

]]> By: Hilreal http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2009/01/09/the-science-of-virgin-birth/comment-page-2/#comment-82894 Hilreal Sun, 18 Dec 2011 19:22:00 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2009/01/09/the-science-of-virgin-birth/#comment-82894 Was Jesus haploid or diploid?  IF this is true, then why are drone bees males (bees produced without fertiliazation)? Was Jesus haploid or diploid?  IF this is true, then why are drone bees males (bees produced without fertiliazation)?

]]> By: Holyshit http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2009/01/09/the-science-of-virgin-birth/comment-page-2/#comment-82775 Holyshit Sat, 17 Dec 2011 05:32:00 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2009/01/09/the-science-of-virgin-birth/#comment-82775 Don't equal the incarnate of the HOLY SPIRIT(Jesus) to a reptile or to a mouse. As many people believe he comes in the form of a human. Forget your imagination for a instant, don't mix science with religious beliefs. As you argue the Jesus is a mutation, Why it never happened after that, so far billions of people lived and died but no record exist for such an incident. In contrast if you say that virgin birth is natural(mutation is natural phenomenon it is not divine) why no one else was mutated after that? Pls don't blend science and Christianity togather you will end up with a poison! Don’t equal the incarnate of the HOLY SPIRIT(Jesus) to a reptile or to a mouse. As many people believe he comes in the form of a human. Forget your imagination for a instant, don’t mix science with religious beliefs. As you argue the Jesus is a mutation, Why it never happened after that, so far billions of people lived and died but no record exist for such an incident. In contrast if you say that virgin birth is natural(mutation is natural phenomenon it is not divine) why no one else was mutated after that? Pls don’t blend science and Christianity togather you will end up with a poison!

]]> By: Pch0002 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2009/01/09/the-science-of-virgin-birth/comment-page-1/#comment-82389 Pch0002 Wed, 14 Dec 2011 17:16:00 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2009/01/09/the-science-of-virgin-birth/#comment-82389 The problem with this is that Luke was written early also.  The physician Luke was the author of Luke and Acts, as you see when you read the opening verses of each book.  But Acts ends without mentioning Paul's death, which was not long after some of his letters, since many scholars believe he wrote some from prison.  If Paul had already died, then surely Luke would have written about it in Acts, as the majority of the book of Acts is devoted to Paul's missionary journies.  Given that Luke did not write about that in Acts, we must assume that Acts was completed before Paul's death in the 60's.  Acts is clearly the second of the two books, as you see when you read the opening verses, so the book of Luke would have had to have been written even before then.  That's pretty early. The problem with this is that Luke was written early also.  The physician Luke was the author of Luke and Acts, as you see when you read the opening verses of each book.  But Acts ends without mentioning Paul’s death, which was not long after some of his letters, since many scholars believe he wrote some from prison.  If Paul had already died, then surely Luke would have written about it in Acts, as the majority of the book of Acts is devoted to Paul’s missionary journies.  Given that Luke did not write about that in Acts, we must assume that Acts was completed before Paul’s death in the 60′s.  Acts is clearly the second of the two books, as you see when you read the opening verses, so the book of Luke would have had to have been written even before then.  That’s pretty early.

]]> By: Pch0002 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2009/01/09/the-science-of-virgin-birth/comment-page-1/#comment-82388 Pch0002 Wed, 14 Dec 2011 17:10:00 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2009/01/09/the-science-of-virgin-birth/#comment-82388 This is a theory that only came about over 600 years after Jesus died.  If this were true, then somebody would have brought it forward before then. This is a theory that only came about over 600 years after Jesus died.  If this were true, then somebody would have brought it forward before then.

]]> By: Pch0002 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2009/01/09/the-science-of-virgin-birth/comment-page-1/#comment-82387 Pch0002 Wed, 14 Dec 2011 17:08:00 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2009/01/09/the-science-of-virgin-birth/#comment-82387 Luke 1:34 Luke 1:34

]]> By: Pch0002 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2009/01/09/the-science-of-virgin-birth/comment-page-1/#comment-82386 Pch0002 Wed, 14 Dec 2011 17:07:00 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2009/01/09/the-science-of-virgin-birth/#comment-82386 That still doesn't explain Mary's response in Luke 1:34 That still doesn’t explain Mary’s response in Luke 1:34

]]> By: Stephenvanderweele http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2009/01/09/the-science-of-virgin-birth/comment-page-1/#comment-82353 Stephenvanderweele Wed, 14 Dec 2011 15:39:00 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2009/01/09/the-science-of-virgin-birth/#comment-82353 There are many skeptics out there who start off by assuming Jesus isn't from God and try to fit it into there mold, why not compare apples to apples and get rid of the pre-sumptous, selffish idea of agnostism. There are many skeptics out there who start off by assuming Jesus isn’t from God and try to fit it into there mold, why not compare apples to apples and get rid of the pre-sumptous, selffish idea of agnostism.

]]> By: Revlizabeth http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2009/01/09/the-science-of-virgin-birth/comment-page-1/#comment-81312 Revlizabeth Tue, 06 Dec 2011 15:59:00 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2009/01/09/the-science-of-virgin-birth/#comment-81312 Is it really possible to explain the act of God?  Why don't we just trust God, believe and receive the blessings that God gives unto us. Dr. Hodge Is it really possible to explain the act of God?  Why don’t we just trust God, believe and receive the blessings that God gives unto us.

Dr. Hodge

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]]> By: Bulla-aurea http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2009/01/09/the-science-of-virgin-birth/comment-page-1/#comment-76366 Bulla-aurea Sun, 16 Oct 2011 15:40:00 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2009/01/09/the-science-of-virgin-birth/#comment-76366 Trying to establish faith through science is a great mistake. Somethings either you accept them or reject them. I can accept someone accepting Christianity on the basis of a true Jesus or reject it on the basis of a legandary Jesus. I cannot understand however all this attempt to rationalize religion. Its like squaring the circle which is impossible as pi is an irrational number and the square's sides are accurately defined...simply doesn t make any sense at all.. Trying to establish faith through science is a great mistake. Somethings either you accept them or reject them. I can accept someone accepting Christianity on the basis of a true Jesus or reject it on the basis of a legandary Jesus. I cannot understand however all this attempt to rationalize religion. Its like squaring the circle which is impossible as pi is an irrational number and the square’s sides are accurately defined…simply doesn t make any sense at all..

]]> By: Vertical Blinds http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2009/01/09/the-science-of-virgin-birth/comment-page-1/#comment-76175 Vertical Blinds Tue, 11 Oct 2011 15:09:24 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2009/01/09/the-science-of-virgin-birth/#comment-76175 <strong>Wikia...</strong> Wika linked to this website... Wikia…

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]]> By: Cherie http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2009/01/09/the-science-of-virgin-birth/comment-page-1/#comment-75590 Cherie Tue, 27 Sep 2011 21:32:00 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2009/01/09/the-science-of-virgin-birth/#comment-75590 Or Mary could be like my mom, who was innocently kissing her boy friend, when he had an accident on her leg, and few months later she is pregnant. Or Mary could be like my mom, who was innocently kissing her boy friend, when he had an accident on her leg, and few months later she is pregnant.

]]> By: Anonymous http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2009/01/09/the-science-of-virgin-birth/comment-page-1/#comment-75531 Anonymous Mon, 26 Sep 2011 22:59:00 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2009/01/09/the-science-of-virgin-birth/#comment-75531 So you're saying we're immature if we don't agree with the Islam faith? So you’re saying we’re immature if we don’t agree with the Islam faith?

]]> By: Anonymous http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2009/01/09/the-science-of-virgin-birth/comment-page-1/#comment-75162 Anonymous Sun, 18 Sep 2011 18:13:00 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2009/01/09/the-science-of-virgin-birth/#comment-75162 One more thing. Please read Den's comment below. He is more right than you may realize. And also, please keep in mind that males cannot become absolete, because without the male, the human species would never diversify. Virgin female reproduction only creates exact female copies. Virgin, interdimensional conception (i.e...spirit sex between a man and a woman...always creates a male, but with the genetic---and---spirit code of both parents.) The reason why virgin children are super advanced is because they are more astrally aware, and hence able to perform healings, know the future, etc...   One more thing. Please read Den’s comment below. He is more right than you may realize.
And also, please keep in mind that males cannot become absolete, because without the male, the human species would never diversify.
Virgin female reproduction only creates exact female copies. Virgin, interdimensional conception (i.e…spirit sex between a man and a woman…always creates a male, but with the genetic—and—spirit code of both parents.) The reason why virgin children are super advanced is because they are more astrally aware, and hence able to perform healings, know the future, etc…  

]]> By: baronvoncarson http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2009/01/09/the-science-of-virgin-birth/comment-page-1/#comment-71905 baronvoncarson Sat, 23 Jul 2011 09:00:09 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2009/01/09/the-science-of-virgin-birth/#comment-71905 Or Mary and Jesus didn't actually exist and were created as part of a cult/religion that was starting at that time? And if they did exist, they just spiced the story up a little bit to make them sound much more spectacular than they were. The only real evidence we have for both Jesus and Mary existing is in the bible. Or Mary and Jesus didn’t actually exist and were created as part of a cult/religion that was starting at that time? And if they did exist, they just spiced the story up a little bit to make them sound much more spectacular than they were. The only real evidence we have for both Jesus and Mary existing is in the bible.

]]> By: Sarah http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2009/01/09/the-science-of-virgin-birth/comment-page-1/#comment-69738 Sarah Mon, 23 May 2011 00:54:33 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2009/01/09/the-science-of-virgin-birth/#comment-69738 This does not explain how Mary had several children (through conception) afterwards. The likelihood of them all being born to a sterile mother miraculously does not seem very plausible. This does not explain how Mary had several children (through conception) afterwards. The likelihood of them all being born to a sterile mother miraculously does not seem very plausible.

]]> By: Eric http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2009/01/09/the-science-of-virgin-birth/comment-page-1/#comment-68663 Eric Sat, 30 Apr 2011 18:50:43 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2009/01/09/the-science-of-virgin-birth/#comment-68663 Occam’s razor is outdated and rejected by scholarship now. Sorry! Occam’s razor is outdated and rejected by scholarship now. Sorry!

]]> By: Sue Vickers http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2009/01/09/the-science-of-virgin-birth/comment-page-1/#comment-65804 Sue Vickers Sun, 13 Mar 2011 13:03:36 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2009/01/09/the-science-of-virgin-birth/#comment-65804 You got very interesting debate started on your website and its worth a lot of comments. Very few people are able to talk so well about this issue. A big thumbs up from me. You got very interesting debate started on your website and its worth a lot of comments. Very few people are able to talk so well about this issue. A big thumbs up from me.

]]> By: Dr. Edward Cumella http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2009/01/09/the-science-of-virgin-birth/comment-page-1/#comment-65755 Dr. Edward Cumella Sat, 12 Mar 2011 22:40:16 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2009/01/09/the-science-of-virgin-birth/#comment-65755 I have written a book explaining scientifically the virgin birth of Christ. Until recently, we could not imagine or explain this phenomenon, but the mystery is finally resolving. Take a peek: jesusgenomeproject.com I have written a book explaining scientifically the virgin birth of Christ. Until recently, we could not imagine or explain this phenomenon, but the mystery is finally resolving. Take a peek:

jesusgenomeproject.com

]]> By: Patrick http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2009/01/09/the-science-of-virgin-birth/comment-page-1/#comment-59397 Patrick Wed, 08 Dec 2010 04:14:03 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2009/01/09/the-science-of-virgin-birth/#comment-59397 I'm comfortable with the virgin birth. The concept is not unique in judaica. Further, suppositions about the hebrew root word are meaningless without input from those who understood it's original meaning. The translators of the Septuagint translated Almah not as "young woman" but "virgin". This is spelled out quite clearly by a number of scholars. Isaiah 7:14 "Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel." Now if you substitute "young woman" for "virgin" what sign is that. God makes such an astounding sign as having a young woman conceive and bear a Son. Wow! When has that ever happened? If you, however, maintain the original translation by the Septuagint as "virgin", the sign becomes clearly a miracle. To say it was an invention of Hellinized early christians trying to compete with pagan religions, look again. Not only were the Jews of the time expecting and hoping for a messiah, they knew what signs to look for and where. They weren't expecting a messiah to save them from their sins, but to save them from their perceived oppression by the Romans and the Tetrarchs. Again, scholarly dishonesty shows it's ugly face. Stop trying to "invent" history. I’m comfortable with the virgin birth. The concept is not unique in judaica.

Further, suppositions about the hebrew root word are meaningless without input from those who understood it’s original meaning. The translators of the Septuagint translated Almah not as “young woman” but “virgin”. This is spelled out quite clearly by a number of scholars.

Isaiah 7:14
“Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel.”

Now if you substitute “young woman” for “virgin” what sign is that. God makes such an astounding sign as having a young woman conceive and bear a Son. Wow! When has that ever happened?
If you, however, maintain the original translation by the Septuagint as “virgin”, the sign becomes clearly a miracle.

To say it was an invention of Hellinized early christians trying to compete with pagan religions, look again. Not only were the Jews of the time expecting and hoping for a messiah, they knew what signs to look for and where. They weren’t expecting a messiah to save them from their sins, but to save them from their perceived oppression by the Romans and the Tetrarchs.

Again, scholarly dishonesty shows it’s ugly face. Stop trying to “invent” history.

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